Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[HairyMaclairy]

I am pretty sure you can game the tax systems by “earning” all your income while offshore or in a tax free jurisdiction  and not staying in any particular Western country for more than 179 days [does not work for US citizens]

So fly to Dubai to cash out your BTC and then go skiing for a couple of months, rinse repeat. 

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[Elwar]

I am pretty sure you can game the tax systems by “earning” all your income while offshore or in a tax free jurisdiction  and not staying in any particular Western country for more than 179 days [does not work for US citizens]

So fly to Dubai to cash out your BTC and then go skiing for a couple of months, rinse repeat. 

You can take the foreign earned income exclusion which is about $102k if you are outside of the US for 330 days out of the year.

The thing is, that's different from capital gains tax...no exclusion there.

I have tried every avenue to turn my bitcoin capital into income. My original idea was to give/loan/etc. my bitcoins to a foreign company in Turks & Caicos (allows for a single owner of a company, 0% capital gains and income taxes).

But there is a law in the US where if you have over 10% ownership in a company and they sell any capital, you have to pay taxes on it as if you yourself sold that capital.

I considered a Charitable Remainder Trust that allows you to put your money into a trust with a certain amount going to a charity upon your death with the rest held by the trust and you can earn income from that. But with that you have to hand over control of all of that money to another entity to invest with no input from you. Part of your investment would be held for the charitable contribution.

Instead I am just hodling until the US collapses. I can cash out (spend) about $37k of my bitcoins each year and pay no taxes. I am a minimalist so that is plenty for me.

[HairyMaclairy]

Sure.

The US has a problem in that it’s citizens still have to pay tax on their global income even if they are not US tax residents.  This is a uniquely US problem afaik.  

Giving up US citizenship for something like NZ citizenship is one obvious route.  You can buy NZ citizenship through an investment scheme. 

https://www.newzealandnow.govt.nz/investing-in-nz/visas/investor-visa

[Elwar]

Sure.

The US has a problem in that it’s citizens still have to pay tax on their global income even if they are not US tax residents.  This is a uniquely US problem afaik.  

Giving up US citizenship for something like NZ citizenship is one obvious route.  You can buy NZ citizenship through an investment scheme. 

https://www.newzealandnow.govt.nz/investing-in-nz/visas/investor-visa

Giving up your US citizenship comes with an exit fee plus you have to pay taxes on all of your assets as if you sold them right then (even without selling it).

[BTCMILLIONAIRE]

I am pretty sure you can game the tax systems by “earning” all your income while offshore or in a tax free jurisdiction  and not staying in any particular Western country for more than 179 days [does not work for US citizens]

So fly to Dubai to cash out your BTC and then go skiing for a couple of months, rinse repeat. 

The problem that I have is specifically with owning property in that kind of situation. I don't want to go from hotel to hotel or Airbnb to Airbnb for the travel part. But if I could just own two houses and have each of them set up as a fully functional base then I would be perfectly happy to just fly over from one to the other every 6 months. Just haven't found anything specific regarding this edge case yet.

[BTCMILLIONAIRE]

Sure.

The US has a problem in that it’s citizens still have to pay tax on their global income even if they are not US tax residents.  This is a uniquely US problem afaik.  

Giving up US citizenship for something like NZ citizenship is one obvious route.  You can buy NZ citizenship through an investment scheme. 

https://www.newzealandnow.govt.nz/investing-in-nz/visas/investor-visa

Giving up your US citizenship comes with an exit fee plus you have to pay taxes on all of your assets as if you sold them right then (even without selling it).

In my book Bitcoin is still pretty cheap, so getting the fuck out of the US would be my highest priority before the exit tax multiplies by another factor of 10 to 100. What's the point in being a digital nomad if you're still paying taxes on anything over 102k (you could freelance and get paid in Bitcoins)?

[Elwar]

I am pretty sure you can game the tax systems by “earning” all your income while offshore or in a tax free jurisdiction  and not staying in any particular Western country for more than 179 days [does not work for US citizens]

So fly to Dubai to cash out your BTC and then go skiing for a couple of months, rinse repeat. 

The problem that I have is specifically with owning property in that kind of situation. I don't want to go from hotel to hotel or Airbnb to Airbnb for the travel part. But if I could just own two houses and have each of them set up as a fully functional base then I would be perfectly happy to just fly over from one to the other every 6 months. Just haven't found anything specific regarding this edge case yet.

I think in Thailand you have to be a citizen to buy...you can lease, which is what most foreigners do. Actually most marry a local and the wife buys the property.

[pfrtlpfmpf]

I am pretty sure you can game the tax systems by “earning” all your income while offshore or in a tax free jurisdiction  and not staying in any particular Western country for more than 179 days [does not work for US citizens]

So fly to Dubai to cash out your BTC and then go skiing for a couple of months, rinse repeat. 

The problem that I have is specifically with owning property in that kind of situation. I don't want to go from hotel to hotel or Airbnb to Airbnb for the travel part. But if I could just own two houses and have each of them set up as a fully functional base then I would be perfectly happy to just fly over from one to the other every 6 months. Just haven't found anything specific regarding this edge case yet.

I think in Thailand you have to be a citizen to buy...you can lease, which is what most foreigners do. Actually most marry a local and the wife buys the property.

Then you´re done 

[BTCMILLIONAIRE]

I am pretty sure you can game the tax systems by “earning” all your income while offshore or in a tax free jurisdiction  and not staying in any particular Western country for more than 179 days [does not work for US citizens]

So fly to Dubai to cash out your BTC and then go skiing for a couple of months, rinse repeat. 

The problem that I have is specifically with owning property in that kind of situation. I don't want to go from hotel to hotel or Airbnb to Airbnb for the travel part. But if I could just own two houses and have each of them set up as a fully functional base then I would be perfectly happy to just fly over from one to the other every 6 months. Just haven't found anything specific regarding this edge case yet.

I think in Thailand you have to be a citizen to buy...you can lease, which is what most foreigners do. Actually most marry a local and the wife buys the property.

The citizen part was what I was worried about. Seems to be that case everywhere. I know that foreigners can buy property in Japan, but it seems like that is only for commercial purposes (such as renting out). Suppose using family could work though (in case there are no decent countries that allow non-citizens to own property for private use).

[nikauforest]

The McAfee Curve
Interactive chart with the math behind it.

Pretty interesting have a look.

https://fnordprefekt.de/

There is a discussion on r/bitcoin on reddit.

[BTCMILLIONAIRE]

The McAfee Curve
Interactive chart with the math behind it.

Pretty interesting have a look.

https://fnordprefekt.de/

There is a discussion on r/bitcoin on reddit.

The date lines up way too conveniently with an exact $1,000,000. Seems like he tried to fit a curve that would do just that as opposed to crunching numbers.


Edit: It's also a very basic curve and doesn't seem to have any hint of point set topology as he claimed numerous times. Although that might be due to point set topology just being topology and thus the basis of just about all Math and certainly analysis. In which case there would be no reason to bring it up in the first place.

I'm not a topologist though, so I wouldn't know if there is any reason to specifically mention "point set" topology.

In either case, if this website is based on his "models" I fail to see the analytical rigour that he touted so proudly.

[RoomBot]

The McAfee Curve
Interactive chart with the math behind it.

Pretty interesting have a look.

https://fnordprefekt.de/

There is a discussion on r/bitcoin on reddit.

The date lines up way too conveniently with an exact $1,000,000. Seems like he tried to fit a curve that would do just that as opposed to crunching numbers.


Edit: It's also a very basic curve and doesn't seem to have any hint of point set topology as he claimed numerous times. Although that might be due to point set topology just being topology and thus the basis of just about all Math and certainly analysis. In which case there would be no reason to bring it up in the first place.

I'm not a topologist though, so I wouldn't know if there is any reason to specifically mention "point set" topology.

In either case, if this website is based on his "models" I fail to see the analytical rigour that he touted so proudly.

Very basic curve, in fact, it's a straight line.

[BTCMILLIONAIRE]

The McAfee Curve
Interactive chart with the math behind it.

Pretty interesting have a look.

https://fnordprefekt.de/

There is a discussion on r/bitcoin on reddit.

The date lines up way too conveniently with an exact $1,000,000. Seems like he tried to fit a curve that would do just that as opposed to crunching numbers.


Edit: It's also a very basic curve and doesn't seem to have any hint of point set topology as he claimed numerous times. Although that might be due to point set topology just being topology and thus the basis of just about all Math and certainly analysis. In which case there would be no reason to bring it up in the first place.

I'm not a topologist though, so I wouldn't know if there is any reason to specifically mention "point set" topology.

In either case, if this website is based on his "models" I fail to see the analytical rigour that he touted so proudly.

Very basic curve, in fact, it's a straight line.

It's a nonlinear curve if you zoom out far enough. Speaking of which, I once had a Math teacher that insisted that linear functions are any line, not just straight lines. Not sure if he was retarded or if he just didn't like my attitude. Probably both.

[realr0ach]

Bitcoin does not solve A SINGLE PROBLEM that physical silver and gold does not already solve better.

Nope. Here's a problem Bitcoin solves that silver doesnt. I want to hold something that isnt a physical object and that I dont have to have physically guarded. The silver can be be lost or stolen by force or by natural disaster, etc. Its also heavy and impossible to conceal when travelling by airplane.

Another bullshit post.  You do not get to ignore the fact bitcoin's value proposition is derived from decentralization, yet it's designed to centralize, giving it zero fundamentals and zero value.  Why is bitcoin currently worth $8k? Because the market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.  It will go to zero from having no fundamentals.  It's only a question of how long can the completely centralized Chinese mining monopoly trick people into buying them with the fraud they pull on Bitfinex day in and day out.

We ALL fucking know Huobi was a giant scam where any price movement was not from people actually buying coins, but just complete fraud of someone entering a few digits on a keyboard and claiming that's the bitcoin price while hoping westerners would then purchase at that price on legit exchanges as the mining monopoly dumps on them.  Bitfinex is the exact same thing.  

You haven't noticed the most scammy, least trustable exchange operating in bitcoin at the time from Gox to Huobi to Bitfinex is ALWAYS the market maker, price setting exchange?

There's an obvious reason for that.  The price is always set by fraud.  They are literally selling you imaginary packets of air while setting the price tag at whatever they want.  The govt is more than happy for all of this to go on because they want you in a cashless society slave system; they do not want you to get ahold of any type of monetary instrument of real value like physical metals, and they want to do a stealth confiscation of all metals by rigging the price low and buying them all (i.e. by proxies like JP Morgan cornering the entire silver market) before the economic system implodes.

[pacman7331]

So whats the word on what we need to officially break out of this downtrend?

We gotta wait till 12k? Or can we call it sooner?

[pacman7331]

Is that racist?

[pfrtlpfmpf]

I am pretty sure you can game the tax systems by “earning” all your income while offshore or in a tax free jurisdiction  and not staying in any particular Western country for more than 179 days [does not work for US citizens]

So fly to Dubai to cash out your BTC and then go skiing for a couple of months, rinse repeat. 

The problem that I have is specifically with owning property in that kind of situation. I don't want to go from hotel to hotel or Airbnb to Airbnb for the travel part. But if I could just own two houses and have each of them set up as a fully functional base then I would be perfectly happy to just fly over from one to the other every 6 months. Just haven't found anything specific regarding this edge case yet.

I think in Thailand you have to be a citizen to buy...you can lease, which is what most foreigners do. Actually most marry a local and the wife buys the property.

The citizen part was what I was worried about. Seems to be that case everywhere. I know that foreigners can buy property in Japan, but it seems like that is only for commercial purposes (such as renting out). Suppose using family could work though (in case there are no decent countries that allow non-citizens to own property for private use).

About 9 of 10 people, i know, lost everything this way, in Thailand. Don´t do it !
It´s a wonderfull country, but just "rent" there.

My Plan: Retirement Visa, and if they decide to open a Karaoke right opposite (which happened to me, complete with a gun waving Thai, never ran faster in my life), i´ll just move.

[realr0ach]

another problem gold and silver has is my situation as a digital nomad traveling the world. How do I pack up all of my belongings and relocate to my next country (as I tend to do) with all of my gold in my suitcase?

Nobody said life is easy.  In the past, EVERYONE knew fiat bills were NOT money and were just receipts for actual money (silver and gold).  NOTHING has changed since then.  NOTHING.  The only place wealth can be stored is in the physical world, either through physical commodities, commodity currency like silver and gold, land, or some other abstract item that resides in this plane of existence like possibly art.  You CANNOT store wealth in zeros and ones. Those are called fucking RECEIPTS, IOUs, artificial scarcity congames, NOT wealth.

Do you even comprehend what would happen if it was that easy to transfer real wealth 2000 miles away instantly with a mouse click?  Things like the Pareto Principle would cause every single drop of wealth in the world to instantly vacuum out of most countries and into one psychopath's house probably in Jew York or Tel Aviv.  The fact wealth cannot be instantly sucked out of every nation of earth with a mouse click is a good thing.  It's a fucking governor to prevent instant collapse of the entire planet, just like the speed of light is needed to prevent everything from happening at once.  Life requires friction to exist.

[BTCMILLIONAIRE]

I am pretty sure you can game the tax systems by “earning” all your income while offshore or in a tax free jurisdiction  and not staying in any particular Western country for more than 179 days [does not work for US citizens]

So fly to Dubai to cash out your BTC and then go skiing for a couple of months, rinse repeat. 

The problem that I have is specifically with owning property in that kind of situation. I don't want to go from hotel to hotel or Airbnb to Airbnb for the travel part. But if I could just own two houses and have each of them set up as a fully functional base then I would be perfectly happy to just fly over from one to the other every 6 months. Just haven't found anything specific regarding this edge case yet.

I think in Thailand you have to be a citizen to buy...you can lease, which is what most foreigners do. Actually most marry a local and the wife buys the property.

The citizen part was what I was worried about. Seems to be that case everywhere. I know that foreigners can buy property in Japan, but it seems like that is only for commercial purposes (such as renting out). Suppose using family could work though (in case there are no decent countries that allow non-citizens to own property for private use).

About 9 of 10 people, i know, lost everything this way, in Thailand. Don´t do it !
It´s a wonderfull country, but just "rent" there.

My Plan: Retirement Visa, and if they decide to open a Karaoke right opposite (which happened to me, complete with a gun waving Thai, never ran faster in my life), i´ll just move.

I'm not interested in Thailand (already lived there for a while and wouldn't want to retire there). I'd like a house in two different Western countries (or one Western country and Japan) for tax purposes though, just not sure how viable that strategy is.

[pfrtlpfmpf]

another problem gold and silver has is my situation as a digital nomad traveling the world. How do I pack up all of my belongings and relocate to my next country (as I tend to do) with all of my gold in my suitcase?

Nobody said life is easy.  In the past, EVERYONE knew fiat bills were NOT money and were just receipts for actual money (silver and gold).  NOTHING has changed since then.  NOTHING.  The only place wealth can be stored is in the physical world, either through physical commodities, commodity currency like silver and gold, land, or some other abstract item that resides in this plane of existence like possibly art.  You CANNOT store wealth in zeros and ones. Those are called fucking RECEIPTS, IOUs, artificial scarcity congames, NOT wealth.

Do you even comprehend what would happen if it was that easy to transfer real wealth 2000 miles away instantly with a mouse click?  Things like the Pareto Principle would cause every single drop of wealth in the world to instantly vacuum out of most countries and into one psychopath's house probably in Jew York or Tel Aviv.  The fact wealth cannot be instantly sucked out of every nation of earth with a mouse click is a good thing.  It's a fucking governor to prevent instant collapse of the entire planet, just like the speed of light is needed to prevent everything from happening at once.  Life requires friction to exist.

Sometimes you blow me away, i´ll give you that !