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Question: What happens first:
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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26366007 times)
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November 19, 2018, 11:56:42 AM



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Short sellers make VW the world's priciest firm

FRANKFURT (Reuters) - Volkswagen (VOWG.DE) briefly became the world’s biggest company by market value on Tuesday, as short sellers caught betting on a price drop with borrowed stock scrambled to find shares after a buying spree by Porsche (PSHG_p.DE).

A share trader points on the curve showing the course development of the shares of German car manufacturer Volkswagen AG on a trading terminal at the German stock exchange in Frankfurt, October 28, 2008. REUTERS/Kai Pfaffenbach

Short sellers desperate to close their positions paid as much as 1,005 euros a share during the session following Sunday’s news that there was less than 6 percent of VW voting stock still floating in the market.

At that price Volkswagen’s voting stock was worth 296 billion euros ($370 billion), or more than the $343 billion market capitalization of Exxon Mobil (XOM.N).

VW shares later closed trading on Tuesday up 82 percent at 945 euros.

The share price has rocketed since Porsche revealed in a surprise announcement on Sunday that it had effectively gained control of 74 percent of Volkswagen’s voting shares.

In March, when Porsche was still sitting on a long-held 31 percent direct stake, it said it was not seeking to increase its holding to 75 percent, bearing in mind that the state of Lower Saxony holds a 20 percent stake in VW.

“The speculation of going to 75 percent overlooks the realities of the shareholder structure of VW, Porsche said at the time.

“In view of the fact that Lower Saxony as second largest shareholder owns 20 percent of VW, the probability of acquiring the necessary shares in freefloat is extremely low.”

Meanwhile on Tuesday a spokesman for German market regulator BaFin said it was looking into the VW share price movement for any sign of insider trading or market manipulation.

Porsche denied it was manipulating the market and said that the market had mixed up cause with effect.

“We vehemently reject the accusation of share price manipulation,” a spokesman for Porsche said. “The ones responsible are those that speculated with huge sums of money on a falling Volkswagen share price.”

Porsche’s statement on Sunday revealed that it had raised its direct stake to 42.6 percent, held a further 31.5 percent in cash-settled stock options and that it intended to increase its holding in the world’s third largest carmaker to 75 percent next year.

It said it was announcing its plans because the number of short positions in VW were considerably higher than it expected and it consequently wanted to give investors the chance to unwind their bets “without haste and without greater risk.”

Around 12.8 percent of Volkswagen’s entire market capitalization was on loan as of October 25, the most recent day for which data was available, according to financial market data consultant dataexplorers.com. This compared with an average 5 percent for all DAX stocks.

The “mother of all short squeezes,” as one analyst phrased it, led to an investor outcry alleging that they were duped by Porsche.

Dealers said those traders who had sold borrowed VW shares in the hope of buying them back at lower prices had been panicked by the announcement of Porsche’s holding.

“Someone must have been very desperate to get a hold of the stock, so there will be a big surprise at some point who will have all these losses — because someone must have lost a lot of money,” said Christian Schick, head of portfolio management in Germany for Fortis Investments.

Shares in Morgan Stanley (MS.N), Goldman Sachs Group Inc (GS.N) and France’s Societe Generale (SOGN.PA) all tumbled on Tuesday with traders saying there was speculation that the banks might be caught on the wrong side of trades involving Volkswagen.

U.S.-China rift divides Asian summit
Goldman declined to comment, but people inside the company said it had no Volkswagen losses, while a Morgan Stanley spokesman said that the company has no exposure to the automaker. SocGen could not immediately be reached for comment, but earlier on Tuesday said it was sticking with its third-quarter earnings forecast.

VOLKSWAGEN DAX WEIGHTING?
Shares in VW were up 45 percent at 689.9 euros by 1604 GMT, after tripling at one point in the previous session.

This meant they were trading at around 63 times expected earnings for 2009, at a massive premium to rivals such as Toyota Motor Corp (7203.T) and Daimler (DAIGn.DE).

Analysts and traders said the stampede was historic for German large caps, but they could foresee VW shares continuing to rise or stay at current levels.


“The problem is, from a fundamental point of view, shares are really overvalued. But when the short squeeze comes to an end, there are not enough shares available to bring the share price back down,” said one Frankfurt-based analyst.

Despite the massive rise in VW shares and talk of little free float remaining, the Frankfurt Stock Exchange said it did not plan any changes in the German blue-chip DAX index.

But Wolfgang Gerke, a member of the Frankfurt Stock Exchange’s Exchange Council, told manager magazin’s online portal that VW stock should be reweighted on the German DAX bluechip index as soon as possible.

When asked about the current, nearly 17 percent weighting that Volkswagen’s stock has on the gauge, Gerke said: “Deutsche Boerse needs to act now and reduce VW’s weighting on the basis of its considerably lowered freefloat.”

The Finance Ministry declined to comment on the rise in the Volkswagen share price and the Economy Ministry did not respond to multiple calls seeking comment.
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November 19, 2018, 11:56:49 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)


Can't make out the numbers, but... does this projection place the local low in the 1.5k area?

3k. The last bear trap before the jump to 20k.

I could probably just about mentally cope with a drop to 3k as long as that was the absolute bottom. If we drop to depths of 1k or similar I’m going to feel physically sick.
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November 19, 2018, 12:07:21 PM

Desperation is in. Monthly low reached?
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November 19, 2018, 12:08:53 PM
Last edit: November 19, 2018, 12:23:36 PM by realr0ach

I could probably just about mentally cope with a drop to 3k as long as that was the absolute bottom. If we drop to depths of 1k or similar I’m going to feel physically sick.

Everything from $200 to $20,000 was early on a single entity on Huobi and then later a single entity on Bitfinex rigging price by fraud.  I'm not sure if they're the same entity or were two different ones, but the fact is, not even those two entities (unless they're both the same persona) know where the price should really go to once all the fraud and artificial market rigging is removed.  No matter where it goes, I personally hope nobody sells just so all the shoeshine boys have lots of coins to dump on the kikes that try to pump it by fraud next, whether the bottom is $4k's, $3k, $1k, or $2.

As for what the market actually looks like to me, it looks like the GATA archives where the ESF admits to creating volatility (pump and dumps) in the metals market on purpose in order to try and make it look like less of a stable store of value to try and make the dollar look better.  The govt itself (or Jewish banker occupied govt rather in the form of entities like the BIS/ESF), is the real actor behind many pump and dumps.  They try to make all other markets look like sine waves to try and pretend the dollar is some type of stable instrument.

Bitcoin can never actually be stable though due to things like halvings.  It's designed from the ground up to be a pump and dump and not function in a stable manner, so there's that too.
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November 19, 2018, 12:21:25 PM


yeah i do like the HAT

gonna make some t-shirts as well .... little personal BTC related gear and not the already usual shit with BTC logo that everybody got....

this kind of +points of my personal crypto sphere are good to fight my personal bitterness of the current DIP's and keeping my mind on the end goal

mass useage of BTC and green everywhere Grin

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November 19, 2018, 12:32:41 PM

gonna make some t-shirts as well .... little personal BTC related gear and not the already usual shit with BTC logo that everybody got....

How about something like this:

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November 19, 2018, 12:32:51 PM



F*** it isn't XhomerX style or not even like 10% of his stuff but we got the point right

WO'ers
don't give a F***
and don't give a F*** about what the many NEW guy's are saying Roll Eyes


edit: and about roach's talking Roll Eyes  *honeybadger modus @ anytime*
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November 19, 2018, 12:37:08 PM


Can't make out the numbers, but... does this projection place the local low in the 1.5k area?

d_eddie what about you? think youre bottom guess is gonna stick or not for the year ?  Wink
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November 19, 2018, 12:38:36 PM



taking you guy's with me

now the price just gotta follow



Nice one!  Might even buy one from you if yer making more?
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November 19, 2018, 12:39:33 PM

All shitcoins going to 0. This is good. Bitcoin is just preparing for the new bull run  Wink Well, everyone can buy more cheap black friday coins. I don't believe this trend. It is purely a bear trap. Last year run will repeat soon.
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November 19, 2018, 12:40:23 PM


Can't make out the numbers, but... does this projection place the local low in the 1.5k area?

d_eddie what about you? think youre bottom guess is gonna stick or not for the year ?  Wink
Personally, I see sub-5k (4.5k-4.8k?) in early December, and a climb from there until January. Up to maybe 6.1k-6.4k or thereabouts.

Disclaimer Strictly SOMA!
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November 19, 2018, 12:41:12 PM

All shitcoins going to 0. This is good. Bitcoin is just preparing for the new bull run  Wink Well, everyone can buy more cheap black friday coins. I don't believe this trend. It is purely a bear trap. Last year run will repeat soon.

I do not believe we will see a bull run before the mtgox users spend their refund next summer
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November 19, 2018, 12:41:44 PM

pffff

many ALT's getting F***ing rekt as we speak.... the masternode and proof of stake shit that i do own!? i'm afraid to just look what there worth in BTC @the moment, i think i did good with selling much of the thrash that i was holding .
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November 19, 2018, 12:43:59 PM

Micgoossens prison tattoos making price decrease again.
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November 19, 2018, 12:45:18 PM


Can't make out the numbers, but... does this projection place the local low in the 1.5k area?

d_eddie what about you? think youre bottom guess is gonna stick or not for the year ?  Wink
Personally, I see sub-5k (4.5k-4.8k?) in early December, and a climb from there until January. Up to maybe 6.1k-6.4k or thereabouts.

Disclaimer Strictly SOMA!

4.5K-ish is the same thing my friend also kept repeating for weeks-months
he said one last real frightening shake out, and then start building up again Roll Eyes
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November 19, 2018, 12:46:01 PM

Micgoossens prison tattoos making price decrease again.

BTC=prison tattoo's ?

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November 19, 2018, 12:49:44 PM



taking you guy's with me

now the price just gotta follow



Nice one!  Might even buy one from you if yer making more?


yeah man as XhomerX is making more HATS.... yeah then i need to make more real life stuff out of it Roll Eyes

i wouldn't mind making it for you.... but its not that i can send it to your BTC-address  Undecided
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November 19, 2018, 12:52:25 PM

4.5K-ish is the same thing my friend also kept repeating for weeks-months
he said one last real frightening shake out, and then start building up again Roll Eyes

I don't want anyone to sell because I want people to have coins to dump on the kikes if they try to pump it, but $4.5k is not an actual "frightening shakeout".  Most people would still be sitting on enormous profit positions at that level. Almost everyone in this thread still has coins they bought at $200-400, $1000 worst case.  An actual frightening shakeout would be like $1k or lower.  If you think it requires a "frightening shakeout" to make the price go up, then you're in deep shit because $4.5k ain't it.
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November 19, 2018, 12:59:33 PM



taking you guy's with me

now the price just gotta follow



Nice one!  Might even buy one from you if yer making more?


yeah man as XhomerX is making more HATS.... yeah then i need to make more real life stuff out of it Roll Eyes

i wouldn't mind making it for you.... but its not that i can send it to your BTC-address  Undecided
I'll pay with BTC and PM an address.  But if you show up at my door with a wrench instead of a hat......Wink
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November 19, 2018, 01:00:18 PM

Are these Jihan's cheap coins?

Gotta get some!
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