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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 25440309 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (157 posts by 13+ users deleted.)
sirazimuth
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August 01, 2020, 08:59:28 PM



Other then if <censored> hits 1 dollar.😀

Hey no shitcoinery talk bro.
Else Jay will meme bat-slap you upside the head.
Followed by lots of words...
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infofront
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August 01, 2020, 09:03:23 PM
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... around $2million networth more objectively brings any guy to fuck you status because it allows for a passive income of about $6,666 per month...

That's assuming a return of 4% p.a. That's reasonable but I'm interested to learn through which means you would look to achieve that? Typical fiat account interest? Loaning btc? Something else?

A traditional, conservative stock-based portfolio historically averages something like 6-7% annually.
JimboToronto
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August 01, 2020, 09:05:54 PM



Other then if <censored> hits 1 dollar.😀

Hey no shitcoinery talk bro.
Else Jay will meme bat-slap you upside the head.
Followed by lots of words...

Very meme. Much humorous.
Toxic2040
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August 01, 2020, 09:19:33 PM




#stronghands
Biodom
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August 01, 2020, 09:20:39 PM
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... around $2million networth more objectively brings any guy to fuck you status because it allows for a passive income of about $6,666 per month...

That's assuming a return of 4% p.a. That's reasonable but I'm interested to learn through which means you would look to achieve that? Typical fiat account interest? Loaning btc? Something else?

A traditional, conservative stock-based portfolio historically averages something like 6-7% annually.

Traditional? It all depends where you come in.
With extreme valuations now, it is quite possible, if not probable that real returns in stonks/bonds over the next decade or two would be at about zero (or below).
Example:
SP500 between March 2000 and Feb 2013 (zero returns if not counting divvies)
Nasdaq between  March 2000 and May 2015 (more than 15 years of zero returns from the peak!)
Shiller says that future annual return in stonks is 2.8%:
https://www.gurufocus.com/shiller-PE.php
Buffett-stonks strongly overvalued (almost like in 2000):
http://www.currentmarketvaluation.com/models/buffett-indicator.php

Mind you, I am still on the market with 40% of fiat in stonks as the music is still playing....
cAPSLOCK
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August 01, 2020, 09:31:56 PM

So my loop in transaction that I accidentally set to a 1sat/k fee is not likely to get mined anytime soon, is it? Smiley

Could take 48 hours.
Maybe as it’s Sunday tomo you’ll get lucky. Current recommended fee is 9 sat/byte.

Post the transaction id, I’ll see if I can run it through via bitcoin’s free accelerator.

Ah good idea!  Forgot about that.  I could also do RBF I guess... but I don't NEED this transaction.  The transaction itself is for like $55, but the change is much more ha.

I went ahead and rebroadcasted via an accelerator.  No reason for me to sacrifice the opsec I would posting the tx here. Wink

But thanks for the reminder!
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August 01, 2020, 09:36:41 PM

if we go to $50K by Nov1, Robinhood traders will go green with envy and will demand that btc is traded on the platform.
Imagine what millions of angry customers can do, lol.

Robinhood DOES have BTC trading.  It's just synthetic, I think.  You can;t withdraw.
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August 01, 2020, 09:42:18 PM

if we go to $50K by Nov1, Robinhood traders will go green with envy and will demand that btc is traded on the platform.
Imagine what millions of angry customers can do, lol.

Robinhood DOES have BTC trading.  It's just synthetic, I think.  You can;t withdraw.

Ah, OK, some imaginary fiat units.
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August 01, 2020, 10:02:35 PM
Last edit: August 01, 2020, 10:13:13 PM by Hueristic
Merited by bkbirge (1), JSRAW (1)

Not sure if yhis is posted yet and i'm way behind so just gonna drop it here.



Nasa Astronauts returning on SpaceX Dragon
. LIVE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13OkD0C_TWU
philipma1957
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August 01, 2020, 10:40:50 PM



Other then if <censored> hits 1 dollar.😀

Hey no shitcoinery talk bro.
Else Jay will meme bat-slap you upside the head.
Followed by lots of words...

Hell having that coin lets me hodl all my btc.

I tell my self it has a huge upside. as it has only 500 million marketcap.

I only need  four or five billionaires to jack it up ten or twenty fold.  Like the Hunt bros did with silver when i was in the Navy. those shit coins allow me to stay relaxed about my btc.

hodl btc.
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August 02, 2020, 12:07:46 AM

He seems to have lived his life on his own terms.  That alone deserves respect.

Too bad he gave up on reality and started drinking the Kool-Aid. Happens to a lot of successful people, they think that just because they are successful at one thing they are experts in everything.

 The reality is that many people successful or not don't like being told what to do regardless of the consequence.  I don't think there is any new Kool-Aid involved wrt the mask.  Sure, the science is out;

Do you really think that "we" already know about science related to the virus?  whether we are talking about masks or a variety of other aspects of the way that it affects people and the utility, effectiveness or cost benefits of various precautionary measures?  whether we are talking about masks or other possible protections?

 I was referring to the science of the mask itself; it prevents droplets of infected spittle from being expelled from the mouth into the surrounding space not only when coughing or sneezing but also when talking, singing, yelling, cheering etc.  In the early stages of the pandemic, the guidance from WHO was that healthy people need not to wear a mask.  That's logical and rational, right?  That's science.  

First off, I had to do a double-take regarding your seeming attempt to out wall of text me, which I believe has been noted in subsequent posts.

 Angry  Angry Angry Angry

Let me allow my anger to sink in for a bit more and for a while, longer...

 Angry Angry Angry

Regarding the substance of your above point, I understand that the WHO has been pointed out as waffling, being inconsistent and even getting political, such as covering up Chinese misinformation.. so yes, there are some problems with their contradictory stances and then seeming attempts to recover from that.

I would not be proclaiming that science is either absolute or that it has not be without its problematic influences, but I will still maintain that value can still be gotten from various kinds of science and even looking at its methodology or even demanding from time to time that both it's work has to be shown and that there might not be any absolute answer on some questions or that preliminary results may have led to bad outcomes.  Even if there might be people or institutions to blame for bad science or bad information,  each of us needs to be humble enough to either admit that there might be certain science claims that we do not understand or that sometimes we get things wrong... and to attempt to learn from the various mistakes and even take corrective actions if there had been some corruption or bias issues involved in previous communications of facts and/or science..



In general, it's true because the mask is much much better at preventing an infected person from expelling droplets of infected spittle into the air many meters around them potentially infecting others.  Healthy people cannot transmit something they don't have.  That's the science... but wait there's more!  It turns out that many people that had Covid-19 were asymptomatic.  Oops.  

Of course, we know that there are various ways to transmit, various measures that can be taken and various questions regarding both when a person might be contagious and whether someone who has already caught Corona might be able to catch it again.

You, xhomerx10, seem to be describing some background that supports my point is that there are knowns, unknowns and unknown unknowns, still.

Has science failed us?  No, but it turns out (surprise, surprise) that healthy is not an objective description with respect to Covid-19.  Well it's too late.  You've already said, "Healthy people need not wear masks" and the world was listening.  

I think that some of these matters are still being studied, so don't lock yourself into a position too soon, homer.


Some countries issued guidance based on that recommendation.  Fast forward a couple of months and now you have to backtrack because it turns out that "healthy" is actually quite subjective.

Yes.  There has been lots of variations in terms of how various countries had implemented guidelines, the extent to which ppe and facilities to socially distance (or separate known infected peeps) were available, variation in compliance and variation in both tests available and ability to socially trace once positive results were discovered.

In my mind, distancing, decontamination and masks should have been used initially to combat the spread before we even toyed with the idea of locking down.  

It's quite likely that various lock downs were accomplished with such recklessness that almost anyone could point to better targeted ways to attempt to address the specific virus issue.. so I am not sure how far we are going to get if we are going to discuss the so many ways that shutdowns could have been better tailored including various kinds of empowering measures like ramping up testing and the production of ppe and social distancing facilities whether treatment or lodging or other attempts at targeting efforts.


Once we have a proper and plentiful testing kits, then we should have moved to isolating infected people only.  Shutting down the world was a bad idea and we'll have hell to pay for that in the future.  Alas, I am not a Pharmacist.

Probably no one is going to disagree with you regarding an overall statement that targeting could have been carried out better, yet some folks might disagree whether you are a pharmacist... **

** by the way, I believe that a more specifically trained person for this virus matter would be an epidemiologist rather than a pharmacist.. but who is trying to parse these kinds of details, anyhow, besides us?


the science is out on many things which we also ignore on a daily basis without any consideration.  

That's true, but does not mean that we know hardly shit about this particular virus, yet.

Sure, we could pick almost any topic, and there would be controversy about what "science" applies, even though there are some kinds of science that are less controversial than others and even harder to argue against.. such as whether 1+1 = 2 versus if there are some more complicated variables in the equation that needs to be measured.

 I agree on both counts.  One of the things we don't know and no country seems to care to find out is the absolute number of infections.  From early on, we were only testing front-line healthcare workers and people showing symptoms and then we were surprised by the possibility of asymptomatic transmission.

I think that there were various approaches, and sure we agree that better targeting could have been accomplished.

We don't know what role children could play in the transmission of the virus since they have been isolated for most of this and yet, at least in my region, we are being told that children will be returning to school in September, wearing masks for 6 hours per day and somehow socially distancing for lunches and recesses.  I think we're relying too heavily on the mask in this case.

I cannot really disagree with you here, even though my middle name is "disagree"   Tongue


Speeding, smoking, drinking alcohol, using drugs, unprotected sex, going to the Moon/Mars and not wearing your seat belt...  Some people are more inclined to take risks than others.

Fair enough.. but with a virus, there is more than just a one way street - including potential exponential spreading.. whether you believe that it is contagious or spreadable or not... maybe it is NOT as spreadable as it is made out to be?  some of those aspects of the virus seem to NOT be well known yet, even though I bet that there are some scientist that know way the fuck more than others.  There are also some scientist that are likely full of shit, too.

 The other things I mentioned are not just a one-way street but I'm not going to itemize each one and describe how.   Even if you think they are a one-way street, the third most common cause of death in developed countries is alcohol and it accounts for over 3% of deaths world-wide annually.  Tobacco use causes more than 8 million deaths annually but 1.2 million of those are non-smokers.  I said wasn't going to do that.  Sorry.
 Many scientists are full of shit but at the same time, analyzing data is no easy task.  They likely have good intentions.

Does this mean that we agree or we don't regarding something that is contagious being of a slightly different category, even though there may still be weighing of community versus individual interests with any kinds of policy considerations?

I'm not going to condemn the man based on that one thing - it was his choice.  Maybe his death will serve as the motivation for others who are on the fence about wearing a mask to put one on; especially those who are in the "more susceptible" categories.

I will agree with you that notable figures can sometimes serve as a better example (and perhaps resonate with others) better than  not really knowing of any examples or maybe getting bad information in regards to some of the examples that any one of us might hear about... including whether the examples are anecdotal or representative... which comes with study and perhaps with the passage of time and the witnessing of more data, too.

Of course, there are some people who are overly scared and overly precautious. I have some difficulties understanding much if any benefits in wearing a mask outdoor when no people are around, except that maybe there might be some easiness in not having to take it off and put it back on, perhaps... but anyhow, I doubt that there is any real benefit in some of the philosophies of the Corona parties.. when there is purposeful desires to catch the virus in order to help with the increasing of herd immunity, if such a thing exists with this particular virus.  Anyhow, good on you, if you want to purposefully catch Corona virus and somehow serve as an unpaid subject of a study that is still in the process of figuring out a lot of the variables and a lot of the scenarios.

 I think wearing a mask in heavily populated cities outside makes sense.  In other cities where you can actually swing a cat, wearing a mask only when entering enclosed public spaces makes sense.  Increased hand-washing and improved sanitization efforts makes sense everywhere.

If we keep agreeing so much, we are going to have to get a room together, I would not want that.  Angry Angry #nohomo.

This is merely anecdotal but I've had to continue working throughout this pandemic.  Those who could work from home were told to do so which reduced the number of people physically coming to work to ~400.  If we have symptoms, we must call a special health line to see if we should come to work, we have our temperature checked before entering work through one main gate, they have placed hand sanitizer stations in high traffic areas, we are using distancing and they have employed people to regularly clean/sanitize key areas.  If I we have to work within 6 feet of one another, we must wear a mask otherwise, they are optional (and supplied).  We are not allowed to wear cloth masks at all.  So far, we have had no Covid-19 transmission.

Of course, workplace to workplace is going to vary, and sure some people are pissed off as fuck if they are having to hassle with wearing masks everyday, and being potentially exposed to the virus and others might stay at home and get paid more than if they had been working.

We have nearly perfect grounds for lots of people getting pissed off... even if they are not really victimized in any kind of specifically individual and meaningful way.

The reality is that many people successful or not don't like being told what to do regardless of the consequence.  I don't think there is any new Kool-Aid involved wrt the mask.  Sure, the science is out; the science is out on many things which we also ignore on a daily basis without any consideration.  Speeding, smoking, drinking alcohol, using drugs, unprotected sex, going to the Moon/Mars and not wearing your seat belt...  Some people are more inclined to take risks than others.
 
 I'm not going to condemn the man based on that one thing - it was his choice.  Maybe his death will serve as the motivation for others who are on the fence about wearing a mask to put one on; especially those who are in the "more susceptible" categories.

It's not simply a matter of taking a risk. It's about endangering others.

Though I agree with you at the base of it, I suppose my general feelings are more in line with the idea that each person is responsible for their own choices in regards to this... everything really.

This man paid the price for his own choices.  And I cannot care less about what his opinion is on masks insofar as it's effect on whether or not I wear one.  That is my choice and I own the consequences.

On the other hand there is some theories that masks protect other more than the wearer.  In this regard I believe locally based laws and regs are appropriate.  
And if you are breaking the law by not wearing one I think that too should be something one is ready to face the consequences of.

How about the death sentence if there is sufficient proof that your failure and refusal to wear a mask had caused the death of someone else?  Sound good?

 We already have laws to address such situations but my country is abolitionist so the death-penalty is a non-starter.  In saying that, we might have been the first country to execute a person for failing to wear a mask.
https://nationalpost.com/news/senior-haliburton-resident-who-refused-to-wear-mask-at-store-was-shot-dead-in-altercation-with-ontario-police

 Maybe.  Do you believe that is representative, or even some conflicts can ensure that start out of a lot of stupid-ass shit.. so, hard to say, just on the face of it, that the man was given the death penalty, even though he did end up dying.

Since the onset of this virus, the goal has been to "flatten the curve" not to prevent all deaths due to Covid-19; that's certainly improbable and likely impossible unless a vaccine can be developed.  

 A vaccine might never be developed.. so I would think that some measures should be taken.

As we have already seen, some areas have opened up only to have to reinstate lockdowns.  

Sure.  again a lack of targeting.

The mask is only on small part of the answer; it's not even necessary for absolutely everyone to wear a mask to accomplish the goal of reducing the curve.  

 fair enough.

To be honest, I'm more upset about the fact that our supermarkets have stopped having a dedicated employee cleaning the shopping carts as they are returned than seeing the odd person come to the store with his shirt pulled up over his mouth because the security guard at the front door says he needs to wear a mask.

 Yes.  Virus is more likely to be spread when there is lack of consistencies and lacking of adequate precautions.  Virus does not seem to be going away anytime soon in part based on a lot of misinformation, disinformation and a variety of lackenings of adequate precautions.. and even sometimes even purposeful refusal to take any precautions.


Probably there are going to be rages no matter what, and even lack of consistency can cause rages, too.
 

Pinpointing the super-spreaders and shutting them down (preferably using non-lethal methods) might be the best way to stop the spread of Covid-19.

Give me a hug, xhomer... you big fluffy pussy cat.   Wink  We made it through the whole thing.  #nohomo.

homer going full JJG   Roll Eyes

Exactly.

He's trying to displace me.  That fuck.  Cry
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August 02, 2020, 12:23:43 AM

Voluminous text and innumerable quotations

No criticism here, but just how do you find the time JJG???
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August 02, 2020, 12:30:33 AM

... around $2million networth more objectively brings any guy to fuck you status because it allows for a passive income of about $6,666 per month...

That's assuming a return of 4% p.a. That's reasonable but I'm interested to learn through which means you would look to achieve that? Typical fiat account interest? Loaning btc? Something else?

When we are speaking about overall wealth, the general accepted practices  is that you are able to achieve 4% per year average on a variety of investments including index funds of whatever.  That is a standard presumption, and there is a bit of a presumption also that bitcoin is at least average if not above average in that regard.  Anyhow, I am going to presume based on such standard practices that BTC and whatever my investment portfolio is invested into is going to continue to appreciate at least 4% per year on average, and if it does not, then I end up digging into my principle in terms of my various investments.

Look strawbs, before I got into bitcoin, I had good years and I had bad years in terms of my returns on my investment, and really I had more than twenty years that largely averaged 5.5% returns on my various investments, and I was not really doing anything special.  

Of course, you can presume that times have changed and virus and new normal and blah blah blah, but I see no reason to abandon standard presumptions, and yeah maybe have to play it by ear if I am eating too much into my principle, but the reality of the matter is that usually there are ways to ensure at least a 4% return with various kinds of proper diversification, and sure there are also some folks who might go more conservative on their withdrawal rate, so then they have to acquire a higher principle in order to even pull any kind of fuck you lever if we are presuming some kind of need to have $6,666 in monthly cashflow (for example).

Personally, I don't feel that kind of a need to handicap myself like that in terms of wondering what my returns are going to be or to put off saying fuck you merely because of some kind of deviation from the standard concerns because all of a sudden I become more risk averse or all of a sudden I conclude that I am not able to live within my needs or I have some other cashflow management issues that I have not had in all of my earlier years of living (or at least by the time I pull the fuck you lever, I should have sorted out these various ways that I might make mistakes.. and I have fixed them), and personally I don't think other guys should use other percentages either (unless they specifically know that they cannot get those kinds of returns), but hey, to each their own and of course, a bit of tailoring of particulars is inevitable too as long as guys are not painting themselves into such a corner that they are causing the perfect to become the enemy of the good.. which surely I don't believe in that either.. but I also don't believe in pulling any fuck you lever too early.. because by the time you pull any fuck you lever, you should already sufficiently know all the details, including any cushioning concerns that might be of concern that you do not have to return out of fuck you status with your tail between your legs because you inadequately planned and pulled such fuck you lever too early.

Voluminous text and innumerable quotations

No criticism here, but just how do you find the time JJG???

Bots do not have any sense of time.

whoops.. did i say too much?

... around $2million networth more objectively brings any guy to fuck you status because it allows for a passive income of about $6,666 per month...

That's assuming a return of 4% p.a. That's reasonable but I'm interested to learn through which means you would look to achieve that? Typical fiat account interest? Loaning btc? Something else?

That or with a return of zero, you run out of money in 25 years.
A much more realistic scenario IMHO considering that we are at peak valuation in stonks and bonds already.
Still, 25 years is a good run.

Of course, Biodom brings up a good point, too.

It is not the end of the world if you might have to draw into your principle.

But of course, if your timeline to live is 50 years after you pull the fuck you lever, then only having 25 years of runway is going to put you in a pretty "awkward" state for the last 25 years of your life when you might have preferred to have been getting massages my hookers, doing donuts in lambos and having a once a day blow happy hour.
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August 02, 2020, 12:36:30 AM

snip<lots of words>

whoops.. did i say too much?
(Sorry Jay, had to fix that. Not only am I deaf, I'm also blind...)

Ummm...yes
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August 02, 2020, 12:39:57 AM

He seems to have lived his life on his own terms.  That alone deserves respect.

Too bad he gave up on reality and started drinking the Kool-Aid. Happens to a lot of successful people, they think that just because they are successful at one thing they are experts in everything.

 The reality is that many people successful or not don't like being told what to do regardless of the consequence.  I don't think there is any new Kool-Aid involved wrt the mask.  Sure, the science is out;

Do you really think that "we" already know about science related to the virus?  whether we are talking about masks or a variety of other aspects of the way that it affects people and the utility, effectiveness or cost benefits of various precautionary measures?  whether we are talking about masks or other possible protections?

 I was referring to the science of the mask itself; it prevents droplets of infected spittle from being expelled from the mouth into the surrounding space not only when coughing or sneezing but also when talking, singing, yelling, cheering etc.  In the early stages of the pandemic, the guidance from WHO was that healthy people need not to wear a mask.  That's logical and rational, right?  That's science.  

First off, I had to do a double-take regarding your seeming attempt to out wall of text me, which I believe has been noted in subsequent posts.

 Angry  Angry Angry Angry

Let me allow my anger to sink in for a bit more and for a while, longer...

 Angry Angry Angry

Regarding the substance of your above point, I understand that the WHO has been pointed out as waffling, being inconsistent and even getting political, such as covering up Chinese misinformation.. so yes, there are some problems with their contradictory stances and then seeming attempts to recover from that.

I would not be proclaiming that science is either absolute or that it has not be without its problematic influences, but I will still maintain that value can still be gotten from various kinds of science and even looking at its methodology or even demanding from time to time that both it's work has to be shown and that there might not be any absolute answer on some questions or that preliminary results may have led to bad outcomes.  Even if there might be people or institutions to blame for bad science or bad information,  each of us needs to be humble enough to either admit that there might be certain science claims that we do not understand or that sometimes we get things wrong... and to attempt to learn from the various mistakes and even take corrective actions if there had been some corruption or bias issues involved in previous communications of facts and/or science..



In general, it's true because the mask is much much better at preventing an infected person from expelling droplets of infected spittle into the air many meters around them potentially infecting others.  Healthy people cannot transmit something they don't have.  That's the science... but wait there's more!  It turns out that many people that had Covid-19 were asymptomatic.  Oops.  

Of course, we know that there are various ways to transmit, various measures that can be taken and various questions regarding both when a person might be contagious and whether someone who has already caught Corona might be able to catch it again.

You, xhomerx10, seem to be describing some background that supports my point is that there are knowns, unknowns and unknown unknowns, still.

Has science failed us?  No, but it turns out (surprise, surprise) that healthy is not an objective description with respect to Covid-19.  Well it's too late.  You've already said, "Healthy people need not wear masks" and the world was listening.  

I think that some of these matters are still being studied, so don't lock yourself into a position too soon, homer.


Some countries issued guidance based on that recommendation.  Fast forward a couple of months and now you have to backtrack because it turns out that "healthy" is actually quite subjective.

Yes.  There has been lots of variations in terms of how various countries had implemented guidelines, the extent to which ppe and facilities to socially distance (or separate known infected peeps) were available, variation in compliance and variation in both tests available and ability to socially trace once positive results were discovered.

In my mind, distancing, decontamination and masks should have been used initially to combat the spread before we even toyed with the idea of locking down.  

It's quite likely that various lock downs were accomplished with such recklessness that almost anyone could point to better targeted ways to attempt to address the specific virus issue.. so I am not sure how far we are going to get if we are going to discuss the so many ways that shutdowns could have been better tailored including various kinds of empowering measures like ramping up testing and the production of ppe and social distancing facilities whether treatment or lodging or other attempts at targeting efforts.


Once we have a proper and plentiful testing kits, then we should have moved to isolating infected people only.  Shutting down the world was a bad idea and we'll have hell to pay for that in the future.  Alas, I am not a Pharmacist.

Probably no one is going to disagree with you regarding an overall statement that targeting could have been carried out better, yet some folks might disagree whether you are a pharmacist... **

** by the way, I believe that a more specifically trained person for this virus matter would be an epidemiologist rather than a pharmacist.. but who is trying to parse these kinds of details, anyhow, besides us?


the science is out on many things which we also ignore on a daily basis without any consideration.  

That's true, but does not mean that we know hardly shit about this particular virus, yet.

Sure, we could pick almost any topic, and there would be controversy about what "science" applies, even though there are some kinds of science that are less controversial than others and even harder to argue against.. such as whether 1+1 = 2 versus if there are some more complicated variables in the equation that needs to be measured.

 I agree on both counts.  One of the things we don't know and no country seems to care to find out is the absolute number of infections.  From early on, we were only testing front-line healthcare workers and people showing symptoms and then we were surprised by the possibility of asymptomatic transmission.

I think that there were various approaches, and sure we agree that better targeting could have been accomplished.

We don't know what role children could play in the transmission of the virus since they have been isolated for most of this and yet, at least in my region, we are being told that children will be returning to school in September, wearing masks for 6 hours per day and somehow socially distancing for lunches and recesses.  I think we're relying too heavily on the mask in this case.

I cannot really disagree with you here, even though my middle name is "disagree"   Tongue


Speeding, smoking, drinking alcohol, using drugs, unprotected sex, going to the Moon/Mars and not wearing your seat belt...  Some people are more inclined to take risks than others.

Fair enough.. but with a virus, there is more than just a one way street - including potential exponential spreading.. whether you believe that it is contagious or spreadable or not... maybe it is NOT as spreadable as it is made out to be?  some of those aspects of the virus seem to NOT be well known yet, even though I bet that there are some scientist that know way the fuck more than others.  There are also some scientist that are likely full of shit, too.

 The other things I mentioned are not just a one-way street but I'm not going to itemize each one and describe how.   Even if you think they are a one-way street, the third most common cause of death in developed countries is alcohol and it accounts for over 3% of deaths world-wide annually.  Tobacco use causes more than 8 million deaths annually but 1.2 million of those are non-smokers.  I said wasn't going to do that.  Sorry.
 Many scientists are full of shit but at the same time, analyzing data is no easy task.  They likely have good intentions.

Does this mean that we agree or we don't regarding something that is contagious being of a slightly different category, even though there may still be weighing of community versus individual interests with any kinds of policy considerations?

I'm not going to condemn the man based on that one thing - it was his choice.  Maybe his death will serve as the motivation for others who are on the fence about wearing a mask to put one on; especially those who are in the "more susceptible" categories.

I will agree with you that notable figures can sometimes serve as a better example (and perhaps resonate with others) better than  not really knowing of any examples or maybe getting bad information in regards to some of the examples that any one of us might hear about... including whether the examples are anecdotal or representative... which comes with study and perhaps with the passage of time and the witnessing of more data, too.

Of course, there are some people who are overly scared and overly precautious. I have some difficulties understanding much if any benefits in wearing a mask outdoor when no people are around, except that maybe there might be some easiness in not having to take it off and put it back on, perhaps... but anyhow, I doubt that there is any real benefit in some of the philosophies of the Corona parties.. when there is purposeful desires to catch the virus in order to help with the increasing of herd immunity, if such a thing exists with this particular virus.  Anyhow, good on you, if you want to purposefully catch Corona virus and somehow serve as an unpaid subject of a study that is still in the process of figuring out a lot of the variables and a lot of the scenarios.

 I think wearing a mask in heavily populated cities outside makes sense.  In other cities where you can actually swing a cat, wearing a mask only when entering enclosed public spaces makes sense.  Increased hand-washing and improved sanitization efforts makes sense everywhere.

If we keep agreeing so much, we are going to have to get a room together, I would not want that.  Angry Angry #nohomo.

This is merely anecdotal but I've had to continue working throughout this pandemic.  Those who could work from home were told to do so which reduced the number of people physically coming to work to ~400.  If we have symptoms, we must call a special health line to see if we should come to work, we have our temperature checked before entering work through one main gate, they have placed hand sanitizer stations in high traffic areas, we are using distancing and they have employed people to regularly clean/sanitize key areas.  If I we have to work within 6 feet of one another, we must wear a mask otherwise, they are optional (and supplied).  We are not allowed to wear cloth masks at all.  So far, we have had no Covid-19 transmission.

Of course, workplace to workplace is going to vary, and sure some people are pissed off as fuck if they are having to hassle with wearing masks everyday, and being potentially exposed to the virus and others might stay at home and get paid more than if they had been working.

We have nearly perfect grounds for lots of people getting pissed off... even if they are not really victimized in any kind of specifically individual and meaningful way.

The reality is that many people successful or not don't like being told what to do regardless of the consequence.  I don't think there is any new Kool-Aid involved wrt the mask.  Sure, the science is out; the science is out on many things which we also ignore on a daily basis without any consideration.  Speeding, smoking, drinking alcohol, using drugs, unprotected sex, going to the Moon/Mars and not wearing your seat belt...  Some people are more inclined to take risks than others.
 
 I'm not going to condemn the man based on that one thing - it was his choice.  Maybe his death will serve as the motivation for others who are on the fence about wearing a mask to put one on; especially those who are in the "more susceptible" categories.

It's not simply a matter of taking a risk. It's about endangering others.

Though I agree with you at the base of it, I suppose my general feelings are more in line with the idea that each person is responsible for their own choices in regards to this... everything really.

This man paid the price for his own choices.  And I cannot care less about what his opinion is on masks insofar as it's effect on whether or not I wear one.  That is my choice and I own the consequences.

On the other hand there is some theories that masks protect other more than the wearer.  In this regard I believe locally based laws and regs are appropriate.  
And if you are breaking the law by not wearing one I think that too should be something one is ready to face the consequences of.

How about the death sentence if there is sufficient proof that your failure and refusal to wear a mask had caused the death of someone else?  Sound good?

 We already have laws to address such situations but my country is abolitionist so the death-penalty is a non-starter.  In saying that, we might have been the first country to execute a person for failing to wear a mask.
https://nationalpost.com/news/senior-haliburton-resident-who-refused-to-wear-mask-at-store-was-shot-dead-in-altercation-with-ontario-police

 Maybe.  Do you believe that is representative, or even some conflicts can ensure that start out of a lot of stupid-ass shit.. so, hard to say, just on the face of it, that the man was given the death penalty, even though he did end up dying.

Since the onset of this virus, the goal has been to "flatten the curve" not to prevent all deaths due to Covid-19; that's certainly improbable and likely impossible unless a vaccine can be developed.  

 A vaccine might never be developed.. so I would think that some measures should be taken.

As we have already seen, some areas have opened up only to have to reinstate lockdowns.  

Sure.  again a lack of targeting.

The mask is only on small part of the answer; it's not even necessary for absolutely everyone to wear a mask to accomplish the goal of reducing the curve.  

 fair enough.

To be honest, I'm more upset about the fact that our supermarkets have stopped having a dedicated employee cleaning the shopping carts as they are returned than seeing the odd person come to the store with his shirt pulled up over his mouth because the security guard at the front door says he needs to wear a mask.

 Yes.  Virus is more likely to be spread when there is lack of consistencies and lacking of adequate precautions.  Virus does not seem to be going away anytime soon in part based on a lot of misinformation, disinformation and a variety of lackenings of adequate precautions.. and even sometimes even purposeful refusal to take any precautions.


Probably there are going to be rages no matter what, and even lack of consistency can cause rages, too.
 

Pinpointing the super-spreaders and shutting them down (preferably using non-lethal methods) might be the best way to stop the spread of Covid-19.

Give me a hug, xhomer... you big fluffy pussy cat.   Wink  We made it through the whole thing.  #nohomo.

homer going full JJG   Roll Eyes

Exactly.

He's trying to displace me.  That fuck.  Cry

 Uncle!
 
#nohomo
sirazimuth
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August 02, 2020, 12:44:27 AM

Ha!
Just found an ancient multibit wallet restore seed.
Can't remember how much I left on it. It's probably dust but I got to thinking dust back in 2014 is a little more than dust in 2020.
Well I'm bored and bitcoin pumping, so just for shits and giggles....Restoring....

.......

Jeeezus christ!  only 19% synched after 3 forking hours?!  
I think I just wasted 3 hours of my pc processing life.

I'll check tomorrow and probably find 50 cents worth.
Oh yeah and some bitcoin trash too...Thanx Roger,  lol
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August 02, 2020, 12:49:24 AM
Merited by xhomerx10 (2)



Dragons do fly

Godspeed Bob and Doug

splash down scheduled for 2 August 2020 18:42 UTC or 2:42pm EDT tomorrow afternoonish

-----
the evening wall report

everyone: ...
bitcoin: hold my beer
#dyor

long and short fibs congruent maybe..i dunno


doodles..maybe a compass kinda thing..but I like the spoon shape and other symmetries

#stronghands

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August 02, 2020, 12:58:12 AM
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I know its luck of draw, but Toxic legendary status is way past due, imho.
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August 02, 2020, 01:05:00 AM

First off, I had to do a double-take regarding your seeming attempt to out wall of text me, which I believe has been noted in subsequent posts.

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Challenge accepted
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Uncle!


Just LMFAO!
 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


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August 02, 2020, 01:05:07 AM
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Other then if <censored> hits 1 dollar.😀

Hey no shitcoinery talk bro.
Else Jay will meme bat-slap you upside the head.
Followed by lots of words...

I wonder why I am feeling like a dog?



instead of like a bot





 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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