Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Fakhoury]

It's bizzarre to me that anyone can claim that Bitcoin's PRIMARY utility is as a store of value. A store of value does not lose over 80% of it's market cap in less than 2 years.

Bitcoin needs to scale in order to survive. The people who sell bitcoin don't seem to think so. The people who buy Bitcoin absolutely do. Ever heard the saying "the customer is always right?"

I think eventually it will be seen as a store of value. Your "A store of value does not lose over 80% of it's market cap in less than 2 years" statement is taking a selective window of Bitcoin's total lifespan and highlighting its devaluation from the ATH. A similar selective view could be applied to many 'store of value' assets that went through booms and busts in their early days.

Of course it needs to scale and I don't think anyone is arguing it doesn't. You make some good points in many of your posts but I find your constant "scale or die" rhetoric to be a simplistic dumbing down of what is a relatively complex debate (you're displaying similar lines of 'intelligence' to President Bush's "You're either with us or against us" and "the axis of evil" chest beating after 911 and we all know how poorly much of that turned out).

Rather than just painting anyone that doesn't think XT has the right combination of attributes and backing as someone that's against Bitcoin moving forward, perhaps you could bring a little more clarity around the issues at hand to the discussion and dispense with such black and white judgement.

+1

Billy, don't panic my friend, believe me, we will scale and bitcoin will be super-fine.

We are all in the same boat with one target, to reach the higher ceils ever of what we can and we will do it.

As Amph said, we are just in a despair phase which sooner or later will be vanished.

Just give it some time and believe me, we as a people will get there

[gentlemand]

Then I suggest that the procedure is applied to ibtimes until they point us in the direction of the fucktards. Then we hire one of those wonderful bitcoin-accepting "cleaners" on the dark web that I've heard so much about.

I've recruited a few myself to take out people who've dropped litter in my locale. After transferring a few thousand of my hard earned BTC the murders failed to go through. Most of the assassins said they were, like, totally grounded or snowed under with homework after I asserted my rights as a consumer.

[ChartBuddy]

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[Fatman3001]

It's bizzarre to me that anyone can claim that Bitcoin's PRIMARY utility is as a store of value. A store of value does not lose over 80% of it's market cap in less than 2 years.

Bitcoin needs to scale in order to survive. The people who sell bitcoin don't seem to think so. The people who buy Bitcoin absolutely do. Ever heard the saying "the customer is always right?"

I think eventually it will be seen as a store of value. Your "A store of value does not lose over 80% of it's market cap in less than 2 years" statement is taking a selective window of Bitcoin's total lifespan and highlighting its devaluation from the ATH. A similar selective view could be applied to many 'store of value' assets that went through booms and busts in their early days.

Of course it needs to scale and I don't think anyone is arguing it doesn't. You make some good points in many of your posts but I find your constant "scale or die" rhetoric to be a simplistic dumbing down of what is a relatively complex debate (you're displaying similar lines of 'intelligence' to President Bush's "You're either with us or against us" and "the axis of evil" chest beating after 911 and we all know how poorly much of that turned out).

Rather than just painting anyone that doesn't think XT has the right combination of attributes and backing as someone that's against Bitcoin moving forward, perhaps you could bring a little more clarity around the issues at hand to the discussion and dispense with such black and white judgement.

... so you felt the need to go ad hominem on him?

BJA can go off the rails now and then, but this is not one of those times. There are plenty here who doesn't want Bitcoin to scale. They want it to stay tiny and reserve the blockchain for bulk transactions or "just as a store of value"(What that value would be is kind of lost on me). What annoys ME is pussies who consistently talk about the "middle ground" as if it's the wise and reasonable choice in every situation, when really it's just a cop out for spineless people. BJA can be way off track sometimes, but at least he is prepared to plow his own track if need be.

[aztecminer]

bitfinix piling on the longs again..

[EsBitcoin.org]

Heh ...... you mean Btc will crash to the earth and then starting to moon ? .... ye that is true ....

The rocket dont touch the earth

[cyclotronmajesty]

You are ridiculous and coming off as a bit trollish or at least disingenuous.

You make a whole bunch of unsubstantiated generalizations regarding Bitcoin in general and it's possible future market performance, in part seeming to be based on your bad investment luck and what appears to be considerable deficiencies in your outlook and expectations

How else do you measure an investment? Would you invest more money into something that has cost you money? Maybe i'm simple minded. But if it's supposed to make you money, and instead it burns all of it up. Maybe just maybe it's not a good investment.

But I've been waiting for this thing since the idea of paypal came out. I didn't really know of it until 2014.
The idea of replacing the banks entirely appeals to me. That is the reason I like it. Trading isn't necessary if you want to use bitcoin. But then again the world prefers credit cards and that requires an institution all over again, taking a fee on every time you spend your money.

[RenegadeMan]

... so you felt the need to go ad hominem on him?

No, but I'm feeling the potential need to go ad hominem on you!

I mostly enjoy reading your and BJA's posts but some of the ways you're expressing yourselves are not helpful.

When are people going to wake up and realise that all this infighting and characterisation of people within bitcoin as "pussies" and "spineless people" is the internal bickering that just makes serious money on the outside of crypto look in (for 5 seconds tops) and shake their heads at the immaturity and self-defeating culture.

Honestly, we need unity and leadership to present a unified face. This stuff you're going on with is disastrous. Who exactly doesn't want Bitcoin to scale? Who? I honestly don't know who these people are. Of course there are a multitude of discussions around new developments like sidechains and the Lightning Network which may change some aspects of how the blockchain is used and what direction it takes, but I don't see any of these people arguing for a Bitcoin that doesn't scale.

This is just more of the "you're either with us or against us" black and white rhetoric I highlighted above.

It's absolutely not helpful to the cause.

[PoolMinor]

It's bizzarre to me that anyone can claim that Bitcoin's PRIMARY utility is as a store of value. A store of value does not lose over 80% of it's market cap in less than 2 years.

Bitcoin needs to scale in order to survive. The people who sell bitcoin don't seem to think so. The people who buy Bitcoin absolutely do. Ever heard the saying "the customer is always right?"

You need to rethink what has actually happened in the last 730 days.





Below is gold store of value for ~730 days.




From here

[sAt0sHiFanClub]

who is this loser?

Nakamoto & some icy broad.

Seriously, did you need to quote it?   

[adamstgBit]

who is this loser?

Nakamoto & some icy broad.

Seriously, did you need to quote it?   

wtf is wrong with him?

[ChartBuddy]

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[adamstgBit]

i found him!

[biggus dickus]

If there ever was anyone who deserved to be DDOS'd to infinity and beyond it would be the coinwallet people. I think the Bitcoin community should all go together and pay for the CEO's apartment to be surrounded by PA systems that go "PING!" 120 times a minute each in order to "stress test" his ability to not jump out of the window.

I seriously doubt it's a real company and they probably wouldn't notice if their website was gone. Dunno who or what they are but being a proper Bitcoin company isn't one of them. There is absolutely no mention of them anywhere in relation to anything other than the stress tests.

At the end of the ibtimes article about CoinWallet there is a quote from them that says they heavily support the XT fork. I think the only reason for CoinWallet's existence is to try to use the stress tests to force the XT fork through, and whoever created CoinWallet must have a lot to gain if the XT fork takes off. The CEO will have hidden his identity by registering the site through an anonymity service, and registering the company through an anonymous business mailing address service.

He will have anticipated the risk of his apartment being surrounded by PA systems that go "PING!" 120 times a minute before setting up the company and hidden his identity to protect himself against it.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/coinwallet-plans-bitcoin-dust-attack-september-create-30-day-transaction-backlog-1515981

"The fact that the XT fork hasn't occurred yet is ridiculous," CoinWallet said.

[coinpr0n]

i found him!

Coded Bitcoin when he was 7 or 8. Then moved on to better things (ETH).

[Fatman3001]

... so you felt the need to go ad hominem on him?

No, but I'm feeling the potential need to go ad hominem on you!

You make some good points in many of your posts but I find your constant "scale or die" rhetoric to be a simplistic dumbing down of what is a relatively complex debate (you're displaying similar lines of 'intelligence' to President Bush's "You're either with us or against us" and "the axis of evil" chest beating after 911 and we all know how poorly much of that turned out).

In retrospect i am willing to admit that this was probably a much more serious slur in my eyes than in Billy Joe Banjo's, but I took offense on his behalf.

I mostly enjoy reading your and BJA's posts but some of the ways you're expressing yourselves are not helpful.

We're not here to be helpful, we're just talking shit.

When are people going to wake up and realise that all this infighting and characterisation of people within bitcoin as "pussies" and "spineless people" is the internal bickering that just makes serious money on the outside of crypto look in (for 5 seconds tops) and shake their heads at the immaturity and self-defeating culture.

If they take their cues from the WO-thread they're idiots, besides, BJA's original rant was a relatively level-headed and reasonable one. And he's a Louisiana ethanol producer. I would be more worried about the public discourse among the devs.

With regards to "pussies" and "spineless people". I think it's fair to call out people who doesn't contribute but decides to go on a crusade against those who care enough to have an opinion.

Honestly, we need unity and leadership to present a unified face. This stuff you're going on with is disastrous. Who exactly doesn't want Bitcoin to scale? Who? I honestly don't know who these people are. Of course there are a multitude of discussions around new developments like sidechains and the Lightning Network which may change some aspects of how the blockchain is used and what direction it takes, but I don't see any of these people arguing for a Bitcoin that doesn't scale.

This is just more of the "you're either with us or against us" black and white rhetoric I highlighted above.

It's absolutely not helpful to the cause.

You can't disparage the ""you're either with us or against us" black and white rhetoric" at the same time as you ask for leadership. This whole case is about leadership, and how it is failing while people on the fence are waiting for some kind of consensus that will not be reached in time. Shooting with a sawed-off in WO-thread debates is healthy.

There are some not-so-healthy contributions, but the WO-thread can handle it. We have fucking lambie here! Try explaining lambie to your "serious money".

Who exactly doesn't want Bitcoin to scale?

A bunch. I can't be bothered to re-read the thread, but if you've followed the discussion you'd seen there has been several. Do they matter? Who knows?

[billyjoeallen]

It's bizzarre to me that anyone can claim that Bitcoin's PRIMARY utility is as a store of value. A store of value does not lose over 80% of it's market cap in less than 2 years.

Bitcoin needs to scale in order to survive. The people who sell bitcoin don't seem to think so. The people who buy Bitcoin absolutely do. Ever heard the saying "the customer is always right?"

I think eventually it will be seen as a store of value. Your "A store of value does not lose over 80% of it's market cap in less than 2 years" statement is taking a selective window of Bitcoin's total lifespan and highlighting its devaluation from the ATH. A similar selective view could be applied to many 'store of value' assets that went through booms and busts in their early days.

Of course it needs to scale and I don't think anyone is arguing it doesn't. You make some good points in many of your posts but I find your constant "scale or die" rhetoric to be a simplistic dumbing down of what is a relatively complex debate (you're displaying similar lines of 'intelligence' to President Bush's "You're either with us or against us" and "the axis of evil" chest beating after 911 and we all know how poorly much of that turned out).

Rather than just painting anyone that doesn't think XT has the right combination of attributes and backing as someone that's against Bitcoin moving forward, perhaps you could bring a little more clarity around the issues at hand to the discussion and dispense with such black and white judgement.

I have repeatedly said that I am not pushing specifically for XT. IF the choice is between XT and not scaling at all, then I am for it.  It frustrates me no end that those seem to be the only two options we are presented with.  Bitcoin needs to scale on an automatic timeline independent of certain people who want to choke the network and squeeze out more fees.

Without the practical ability to do microtransactions, Bitcoin's utility value is substantially lower than otherwise. BIP100 replacing a static 1MB block size limit with a dynamic 1MB block size limit is a joke, particularly when people with an incentive to bottleneck the network effectively have veto power over any increase! 

Cripplecoiners can't all be this stupid. There is some straight up evil at work here. I think of that line in Dark Knight when Alfred says "Some people just want to see the world burn."

[RenegadeMan]

Okay thanks for your replies Fatman and BJA. Good responses. Even if I don't agree with your individual takes on the situation there's always more to the story than appears at face value.

I'm coming to the conclusion that to save us we need a combo of





and

[JayJuanGee]

You are ridiculous and coming off as a bit trollish or at least disingenuous.

You make a whole bunch of unsubstantiated generalizations regarding Bitcoin in general and it's possible future market performance, in part seeming to be based on your bad investment luck and what appears to be considerable deficiencies in your outlook and expectations

How else do you measure an investment? Would you invest more money into something that has cost you money? Maybe i'm simple minded. But if it's supposed to make you money, and instead it burns all of it up. Maybe just maybe it's not a good investment.

But I've been waiting for this thing since the idea of paypal came out. I didn't really know of it until 2014.
The idea of replacing the banks entirely appeals to me. That is the reason I like it. Trading isn't necessary if you want to use bitcoin. But then again the world prefers credit cards and that requires an institution all over again, taking a fee on every time you spend your money.

You can measure an investment through a variety of perspectives and indicators, and in the end each of us has to choose for himself/herself regarding what to measure and whether we recognize value in making an investment, in part based on whether we perceive potential benefits outweighing potential risks.


Merely because you have lost money in a particular investment over the past about 18 months does not necessarily lead to the conclusion that the asset itself is bad or that it will continue from here on to go down in market price. Also, markwt price is also not necessarily a measure of value, except for at that particular point in time reflecting how much that people are willing to pay for it.

Yes, you do come off as either simple minded or else someone who is trolling.

Surely, there are a lot of potential use cases for Bitcoin, and your attempt to summarize them while making broad comparisons and contrasts barely scratches the surface of various ways in which Bitcoin can be used and currently some of such uses have been implemented (while evolving) and other uses will quite likely be further developed in the future.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin
Explanation