Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Wekkel]

there is no skill behind making a block bigger. zero innovation. no skill = no value

Original thought is overrated. What matters is what works. Bigger blocks work.

It’s not that simple.

Feel free to elaborate.

Bigger blocks does not make the sum that comprises Bitcoin necessarily better. One could make a Bitcoin clone with 2second block time and call it better or with 1GB blocks for that matter. But the trade off involved cannot be ignored if contemplating about this diligently. The BCH ‘solution’ does not scale, only temporarily postponed the issue.

And finally, but that is just personal, I do not like how these boys behaved themselves in this matter. Bitcoin Gold on the other hand....

[Ibian]

Yeah, excellent strategy.
Killing animals to eat them works until there are no more animals to kill and suddenly it doesn't work and you die of hunger.
Big blocktard are so funny. LOL

Hmm. Interesting observation. r/K selection theory as applied to Bitcoin.

r == Bitcoin Cash
K == Bitcoin

Yes.

[Ibian]

From my perspective, it is Blockstream/Core that are tampering with Bitcoin, by refusing to allow a much-needed capacity increase to reduce fees and allow for continued growth

Don't you already have Bitcoin Cash that allows continued growth? What's wrong with it?

Nothing is wrong with it.  That's why we're working on it.  To continue building Bitcoin as a P2P eCash system.  

Right now the market and the miners are trying to figure out which is superior: Bitcoin Cash or Bitcoin Core.

there is no skill behind making a block bigger. zero innovation. no skill = no value

Original thought is overrated. What matters is what works. Bigger blocks work.

It’s not that simple.

Feel free to elaborate.

<Sigh> Ibian, this has been covered extensively. You can't just trivialize and hand wave it all away as a simple block size increase will solve everything and still retain network stability while maintaining mining decentralization. Also, see BCH for example of block size increase trainwreck nightmare scenario.
Here's some reading for ya:
https://medium.com/@thepiratewhocantbenamed/my-thoughts-on-your-thoughts-17474d800dda

The main difference is network effect. If we started from the same place, it is not obvious that the segwit chain would have won. It is simply that telling the world that their bitcoins are no longer bitcoins would be an even bigger disaster than everything else that has happened up to this point.

And segwit is still not enough. Not even close. We need both, or something even better than both.

[Peter R]

Bcash cost of production (difficulty) is now being slashed by 20% per block for the next 6 blocks. Expect miners to follow cost of production slavishly. Forking guys have no idea what they have unleashed ... it will become apparent soon now.

Yes, the existence of BCH will destabilize BCT mining.  

Everyone knows that at equilibrium, if BCH has 1/10th the value of BTC, that the hash power mining BCH will be 1/10th that mining BTC.  

What is less obvious what happens when the system is not in equilibrium. Imagine that the market reprices BCH 100% higher and BTC 10% lower.  What is the expected distribution of hash power now assuming short-term profit-maximizing miners?  

The answer is "most of it will be mining BCH." Because the difficulty adjusts only very slowly (every 2016 blocks) BCH becomes twice as profitable to mine as BTC.  Hash-per-hash miners would earn double by mining BCH.  This continues until the difficulty reset comes when BCH would go "limit up" (4X), when most miners would leave BCH back for BTC.  BCH's difficulty would slowly ratchet back down due to its fast difficulty adjustment and the process would later repeat.  

What this suggest is that at times when BCH is more profitable to mine and the hash rate migrates to BCH, the average block time for BTC will increase significantly and BTC's already slow and expensive transactions will become much more so.  

What do you know, Marcus, it worked.

[becoin]

Yeah, excellent strategy.
Killing animals to eat them works until there are no more animals to kill and suddenly it doesn't work and you die of hunger.
Big blocktard are so funny. LOL

Hmm. Interesting observation. r/K selection theory as applied to Bitcoin.

r == Bitcoin Cash
K == Bitcoin

Interesting idea. Thank you.

Bitcoin Cash == unlimited food and plenty of green grass, just expand blocksize by moving to new pastures, eat as much as you can
Bitcoin == limited food in the ecosystem, you have to enrich it to expand, don't eat more than you can afford

[itod]

Here's some reading for ya:
https://medium.com/@thepiratewhocantbenamed/my-thoughts-on-your-thoughts-17474d800dda

Best bigblock analyses ever. Can't be recommended enough.

[Ibian]

there is no skill behind making a block bigger. zero innovation. no skill = no value

Original thought is overrated. What matters is what works. Bigger blocks work.

It’s not that simple.

Feel free to elaborate.

Bigger blocks does not make the sum that comprises Bitcoin necessarily better. One could make a Bitcoin clone with 2second block time and call it better or with 1GB blocks for that matter. But the trade off involved cannot be ignored if contemplating about this diligently. The BCH ‘solution’ does not scale, only temporarily postponed the issue.

And finally, but that is just personal, I do not like how these boys behaved themselves in this matter. Bitcoin Gold on the other hand....

We need more throughput. It is that simple. We have segwit now, and it is not enough. If you have a better alternative than segwit+bigger blocks, feel free to share. Clonecoins would not even matter if we already had the benefit they chose to incorporate.

[BTCMILLIONAIRE]

Yeah, excellent strategy.
Killing animals to eat them works until there are no more animals to kill and suddenly it doesn't work and you die of hunger.
Big blocktard are so funny. LOL

Hmm. Interesting observation. r/K selection theory as applied to Bitcoin.

r == Bitcoin Cash
K == Bitcoin

Interesting idea. Thank you.

Bitcoin Cash == unlimited food and plenty of green grass, just expand blocksize by moving to new pastures, eat as much as you can
Bitcoin == limited food in the ecosystem, you have to enrich it to expand, don't eat more than you can afford

If only the "unlimited food" wasn't under heavy control.

[becoin]

Yeah, excellent strategy.
Killing animals to eat them works until there are no more animals to kill and suddenly it doesn't work and you die of hunger.
Big blocktard are so funny. LOL

Hmm. Interesting observation. r/K selection theory as applied to Bitcoin.

r == Bitcoin Cash
K == Bitcoin

Yes.

Yes, but....
Prey is trying to attack the predator.
What could possibly go wrong?

[pfrtlpfmpf]

I allways imagine, how a newbie comes to this thread (it´s number one in bitcoinland, no ?), and wtf´s himself.
Gentlemen and women, why were we here in the first place ?

[BTCMILLIONAIRE]

I allways imagine, how a newbie comes to this thread (it´s number one in bitcoinland, no ?), and wtf´s himself.
Gentleman and women, why were we here in the first place ?

To take power away from centralized institutions. Seems like BCH (Bitmain/Ver) has forgotten that and only cares about its mining revenue and power games.

[Ibian]

I allways imagine, how a newbie comes to this thread (it´s number one in bitcoinland, no ?), and wtf´s himself.
Gentleman and women, why were we here in the first place ?

To take power away from centralized institutions. Seems like BCH (Bitmain/Ver) has forgotten that and only cares about its mining revenue and power games.

More importantly, WE seem to have forgotten what this is about.

It doesn't matter what technical formula we use to improve bitcoin, so long as it is done. There is nothing inherently wrong with bigger blocks, we have just politicized "bigblocktards" as actual nazis. Othered them, if you will. That is stupid.

The real issue is how people with the ability to influence the entire cryptosphere act. Bitcoin was created as an alternative to centralized state power. Cash guy calls himself a ceo. I see no further need to debate which we should support.

[Last of the V8s]

[El duderino_]

Yesterday I've bought very cheap bitcoins almost at the bottom. I'll hold them until >$10k. Thank you, Ver and Jihan! Keep up the good work!

Only until 10k.     ?

I'm talking only about Ver's bitcoins I've bought yesterday. I'll be generous and will sell them back to him at $10k.
I'll never sell my bitcoin stash in exchange for dollars or euros. In few years you won't need to do that because everything valuable will have bitcoin price tag.
 

Aaah ok :-)

But still bought bcash is crazy  too  

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

[conspirosphere.tk]

... slight derail here as I'm syncing the Bitcoin Gold client on another machine.

https://yobit.net/en/trade/BTG/BTC (Is that even the right ticker ?!)

I guess this is safe to start dumping now ?

If you consider safe Yobit, maybe.
I think that I'll take the risk to wait for Bitgold to be listed on trex or polo, or at least that they enable deposits on finex.
Being listed on some major exchange could even help for a little pump.

[Wekkel]

there is no skill behind making a block bigger. zero innovation. no skill = no value

Original thought is overrated. What matters is what works. Bigger blocks work.

It’s not that simple.

Feel free to elaborate.

Bigger blocks does not make the sum that comprises Bitcoin necessarily better. One could make a Bitcoin clone with 2second block time and call it better or with 1GB blocks for that matter. But the trade off involved cannot be ignored if contemplating about this diligently. The BCH ‘solution’ does not scale, only temporarily postponed the issue.

And finally, but that is just personal, I do not like how these boys behaved themselves in this matter. Bitcoin Gold on the other hand....

We need more throughput. It is that simple.

I will rephrase: we need better solutions. Just increasing block size isn’t. So we remain stuck where we are right now until a better solution is found. All part of the trade off in a decentralised system.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

... slight derail here as I'm syncing the Bitcoin Gold client on another machine.

https://yobit.net/en/trade/BTG/BTC (Is that even the right ticker ?!)

I guess this is safe to start dumping now ?

This thing will pump, Bob. You know it and I know it. Why even consider dumping now?

[JayJuanGee]

Im not getting why you people are panicking over shitfork.

Because of this:

Bitcoin is the ledger of not-previously-spent, validly signed transactions contained in the chain of blocks that begins with the genesis block (hash 000000000019d6689c085ae165831e934ff763ae46a2a6c172b3f1b60a8ce26f), follows the 21-million coin creation schedule, and has the most cumulative double-SHA256-proof-of-work.

You can curse him as much as you want, but that CIA employee is right about the definition. Verbal consensus is worth nothing, the only consensus mentioned in the Whitepaper is the consensus which chain has more POW.

I'm not saying there is a reason to panic, but this is full-blooded attack on what we consider BTC. They will probably fail (hopefully), but you can't say they are not trying.

It is possible that either the whitepaper is wrong, or that interpretation of the whitepaper is wrong.

Will we find out in the real world, perhaps?


Surely the longest chain with the most POW is important - however, there is also quite a bit of importance that is given to the various networking effects that support bitcoin.

Accordingly, there could be temporarily more POW on a chain that is not recognized by the community - and that longer POW could exist for a while.  Surely, after some passage of time, if the community continues to NOT support that artificially inflated chain (and perhaps the artificially inflated chain has more POW because they changed what is POW), then likely the longest POW is going to revert to the chain that has the most community supporting it.... So in the end, my point is that there is some value to assign to the support of the community that goes beyond mere textbook definitions of longest POW = bitcoin.

[Ludwig Von]

First time I meet Kama and Herr Seele on the forum... .