Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Elwar]

Yesterday, I had a $100 private purchase with a relative.

I know that some ACH bank transfers are free; however, after I discovered that my bank was going to charge me $3 to ACH transfer our $100 amount, we agreed to follow through with your transaction with bitcoin.

Let me say that I had done bitcoin transactions with this particular relative in the past  (I had sent him $10 when BTC prices were $385, and about a year and a half later, I had sent him $30 when the price was $420), so I knew that the relative was somewhat familiar with bitcoin, but I also knew that the relative was very doubting about bitcoin.  Therefore, I was a bit surprised that he was willing to do our transaction in bitcoin.  Before he agreed to receive the $100 in bitcoin, I made a bit of a sniping comment about his seeming lack of bitcoin enthusiasm, and I said something about him not even being able to figure out what was a bitcoin address.... hahahahhahahaha..

Anyhow, he agreed, and I sent the transaction, and I even included a bit more (sent him $105 when BTC prices were about $8,372) in order to be assured that everything was covered and he would be able to cash out with at least $100 at any time that he wanted.  Within less than 30 minutes of the transaction, he made his own sniping comment back at me and said that the BTC transaction was showing as pending as $104.81 - suggesting that it already lost value.

So I sent him back a text saying that he could cash out his bitcoin at any time and even though there are not guarantees, there remains a decent chance that at various points within the next 3 years that his received bitcoin will be worth at least 50% more than it's current value, and that there are not too many other assets that I would be comfortable making a similar kind of an assertion.  As I type this post, BTC prices are about $7,500, and the value on my wallet is showing the value of the $105 at about $106.91.

Accordingly, I conclude that my yesterday's Btc prediction to my relative was fairly conservative.  

Furthermore, with almost anyone getting into bitcoin, I feel relatively comfortable recommending at any Btc price point that they put at least 1% of their quasi-liquid investment value into bitcoin. Of course, any newbie bitcoin investor could increase that investment amount up to 10% and even though such an increased allocation would be more risky, it would not compose a very large amount of their total quasi-liquid investment capital.

Maybe some of you guys in bitcoin have been investing into bitcoin for several years, and maybe you did not put 100% into bitcoin, but you put a decent percentage, something like 5% of your initial investment into bitcoin?  But probably now the value of your bitcoin assets is in the 40% to 70% or more arena even though you may have also pulled out some or all of your initial investment?  

Is 40% to 70% allocation an Over-allocation into BTC?

I believe that my current allocation into BTC is about 75%, yet that allocation had grown to over 90% when the btc price had gone up to $19,666, even though my initial starting investment amount was in the 10% to 15% arena.

Am I Over-allocated into BTC?

My particular imbalance of value towards Btc came from Btc price appreciation over the past 2.5 years rather than from my putting that value into Btc but still doesn't seem to motivate me to want to pull out a lot of the value from Btc even when having such a volatile asset composing such a large percentage of my total does cause ongoing erratic value swings. Go figure.

I have very little faith in fiat currencies and definitely do not keep more than 5-10% in them at any one time. What country is stable enough to hold their fiat? Even investments denominated in fiat are still subject to the inflationary nature of the underlying fiat.

If you look at the US, they are currently $20 trillion in debt with over $100 trillion in unfunded liabilities (meaning, future promised money will not be able to be paid by future taxes). The payment per year in just the interest on the debt is around $300 billion. The defense budget is one of the highest expenditures at $600 billion. Eventually the interest on the debt will be higher than defense spending. The only way to keep paying it will be to borrow more which makes the interest payment higher going into a debt spiral.
The only way out of it is to either raise taxes (which will only go so far) or cut spending (never gonna happen) or the easiest thing to do is print enough money so that $20 trillion is not that much money (same as a loaf of bread). My thought is that they will choose the latter. What happens to your $100k in google stocks when $100k is worth a tank of gas?

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[Anon136]

-insert dream about becoming rich via shitcoins so he can play videogames all day-

Sorry roach. That ship already sailed. I bought bitcoin @ $30, NXT @ like $0.001, Monero @ $4 and IOTA @ $0.01.

I would be rich af if I didn't take profit like it was my religion but I can still play video games all day if I want.

What price did you buy bitconnect at?

I just listed everything that I ever bought that was even remotely like a cryptocurrency. That includes ERC20 tokens, ICO's, everything. If it wasn't on that list I didn't buy it. And I dumped NXT and IOTA (the more scammy ones listed) entirely after I had locked in a good profit. I didn't "believe in" them or "hodl" them. As of now I only own Monero and Bitcoin.

*correction* I owned a little bit of litecoin and the original bytecoin a LONG time ago. Nothing serious there. Just messing around a bit with those two back when there were only even a few altcoins in existence.

[infofront]

-insert dream about becoming rich via shitcoins so he can play videogames all day-

Sorry roach. That ship already sailed. I bought bitcoin @ $30, NXT @ like $0.001, Monero @ $4 and IOTA @ $0.01.

I would be rich af if I didn't take profit like it was my religion but I can still play video games all day if I want.

What price did you buy bitconnect at?

I just listed everything that I ever bought that was even remotely like a cryptocurrency. That includes ERC20 tokens, ICO's, everything. If it wasn't on that list I didn't buy it. And I dumped NXT and IOTA (the more scammy ones listed) entirely after I had locked in a good profit. I didn't "believe in" them or "hodl" them. As of now I only own Monero and Bitcoin.

*correction* I owned a little bit of litecoin and the original bytecoin a LONG time ago. Nothing serious there. Just messing around a bit with those two back when there were only even a few altcoins in existence.

I was just kidding. It sounds like you got in at some nice entry points. I got my Monero at around that price, and am still holding a good chunk of it.

Edit: I was holding it, until I lost it all in that tragic boating accident

[Anon136]

-insert dream about becoming rich via shitcoins so he can play videogames all day-

Sorry roach. That ship already sailed. I bought bitcoin @ $30, NXT @ like $0.001, Monero @ $4 and IOTA @ $0.01.

I would be rich af if I didn't take profit like it was my religion but I can still play video games all day if I want.

What price did you buy bitconnect at?

I just listed everything that I ever bought that was even remotely like a cryptocurrency. That includes ERC20 tokens, ICO's, everything. If it wasn't on that list I didn't buy it. And I dumped NXT and IOTA (the more scammy ones listed) entirely after I had locked in a good profit. I didn't "believe in" them or "hodl" them. As of now I only own Monero and Bitcoin.

*correction* I owned a little bit of litecoin and the original bytecoin a LONG time ago. Nothing serious there. Just messing around a bit with those two back when there were only even a few altcoins in existence.

I was just kidding. It sounds like you got in at some nice entry points. I got my Monero at around that price, and am still holding a good chunk of it.

Oh sorry. I didn't realize that you were kidding. Np though.

[JayJuanGee]

Yesterday, I had a $100 private purchase with a relative.

I know that some ACH bank transfers are free; however, after I discovered that my bank was going to charge me $3 to ACH transfer our $100 amount, we agreed to follow through with your transaction with bitcoin.

Let me say that I had done bitcoin transactions with this particular relative in the past  (I had sent him $10 when BTC prices were $385, and about a year and a half later, I had sent him $30 when the price was $420), so I knew that the relative was somewhat familiar with bitcoin, but I also knew that the relative was very doubting about bitcoin.  Therefore, I was a bit surprised that he was willing to do our transaction in bitcoin.  Before he agreed to receive the $100 in bitcoin, I made a bit of a sniping comment about his seeming lack of bitcoin enthusiasm, and I said something about him not even being able to figure out what was a bitcoin address.... hahahahhahahaha..

Anyhow, he agreed, and I sent the transaction, and I even included a bit more (sent him $105 when BTC prices were about $8,372) in order to be assured that everything was covered and he would be able to cash out with at least $100 at any time that he wanted.  Within less than 30 minutes of the transaction, he made his own sniping comment back at me and said that the BTC transaction was showing as pending as $104.81 - suggesting that it already lost value.

So I sent him back a text saying that he could cash out his bitcoin at any time and even though there are not guarantees, there remains a decent chance that at various points within the next 3 years that his received bitcoin will be worth at least 50% more than it's current value, and that there are not too many other assets that I would be comfortable making a similar kind of an assertion.  As I type this post, BTC prices are about $7,500, and the value on my wallet is showing the value of the $105 at about $106.91.

Accordingly, I conclude that my yesterday's Btc prediction to my relative was fairly conservative.  

Furthermore, with almost anyone getting into bitcoin, I feel relatively comfortable recommending at any Btc price point that they put at least 1% of their quasi-liquid investment value into bitcoin. Of course, any newbie bitcoin investor could increase that investment amount up to 10% and even though such an increased allocation would be more risky, it would not compose a very large amount of their total quasi-liquid investment capital.

Maybe some of you guys in bitcoin have been investing into bitcoin for several years, and maybe you did not put 100% into bitcoin, but you put a decent percentage, something like 5% of your initial investment into bitcoin?  But probably now the value of your bitcoin assets is in the 40% to 70% or more arena even though you may have also pulled out some or all of your initial investment?  

Is 40% to 70% allocation an Over-allocation into BTC?

I believe that my current allocation into BTC is about 75%, yet that allocation had grown to over 90% when the btc price had gone up to $19,666, even though my initial starting investment amount was in the 10% to 15% arena.

Am I Over-allocated into BTC?

My particular imbalance of value towards Btc came from Btc price appreciation over the past 2.5 years rather than from my putting that value into Btc but still doesn't seem to motivate me to want to pull out a lot of the value from Btc even when having such a volatile asset composing such a large percentage of my total does cause ongoing erratic value swings. Go figure.

I have very little faith in fiat currencies and definitely do not keep more than 5-10% in them at any one time. What country is stable enough to hold their fiat? Even investments denominated in fiat are still subject to the inflationary nature of the underlying fiat.

If you look at the US, they are currently $20 trillion in debt with over $100 trillion in unfunded liabilities (meaning, future promised money will not be able to be paid by future taxes). The payment per year in just the interest on the debt is around $300 billion. The defense budget is one of the highest expenditures at $600 billion. Eventually the interest on the debt will be higher than defense spending. The only way to keep paying it will be to borrow more which makes the interest payment higher going into a debt spiral.
The only way out of it is to either raise taxes (which will only go so far) or cut spending (never gonna happen) or the easiest thing to do is print enough money so that $20 trillion is not that much money (same as a loaf of bread). My thought is that they will choose the latter. What happens to your $100k in google stocks when $100k is worth a tank of gas?

When I was referring to quasi-liquid assets, I was thinking about any kind of asset that you could invest into, and performing a kind of ball park estimation about what the value of those assets would be, and then considering investing (or allocating) a portion of the value of those assets into bitcoin. 

Since this is the dollar to bitcoin thread, we frequently talk in terms of dollars, and surely some of our assets will be directly in dollars, but some of our assets will be directly related to the dollar, such as owning stocks or bonds or some combination of index funds.

When I got into bitcoin, I was not a newbie to investing because I had bought property and I had also dollar cost average invested into various kinds of stocks and bonds like products.  There were times that I had also considered investing in PMs such as gold and silver because I had considered that so may of my investments were so tied into the value of the dollar that gold might provide a decent amount of non-correlation, yet some of the cumbersome nature of gold and silver and even attempting to verify that it is legitimate or figuring out how to spend it in an emergency, made me consider hoarding or even accumulation of pms to be very impractical. 

Even in late 2013, when I first started looking into Bitcoin, there seemed to be a certain gold-like and non-correlated value in bitcoin that brought a certain level of insurance (and hedging) comfort from putting a portion of your total assets into it (just so your investments are not so much tied to one thing - which I had considered to be the dollar). 

One other aspect of liquid asset might be assessing something that is not very liquid, such as a business that is worth $200k or something like that, but maybe the non-liquid aspect of it would cause a quasi-liquid assessment of $20k or some fraction of the value (merely because such business is not very liquid) - and similar calculations of liquidity may be made of other assets in order to determine how much to invest into bitcoin and what might be a 1% investment or a 10% investment... approximately.

[RejectedBanana]

check out this mesmerizing but sickening animated crypto market evolution, too large to post in its entirety here...


https://t.me/CryptoAquariumChannel/1585

[jojo69]

check out this mesmerizing but sickening animated crypto market evolution, too large to post in its entirety here...


https://t.me/CryptoAquariumChannel/1585

good grief

that is queasy making

[nanobtc]

(snipped)

Carry on.

[TERA2]

So how is the holocaust coming along?

[Karartma1]

check out this mesmerizing but sickening animated crypto market evolution, too large to post in its entirety here...

https://t.me/CryptoAquariumChannel/1585

Nice, thanks for sharing. I do believe that the Bitcoin Massive Black Hole will mesmerize all the crap alt in the next years. That is going to require a huge load of popcorns

[Ibian]

This is true. As Bitcoin continues to live on though, it will be the younger, newer generations of Average Joe that takes a chance with Bitcoin. They come into the working world with more disdain for the existing financial structure, less debt (except student loans), less skepticism of Bitcoin, less to lose and everything to gain.

Grandma and Grandpa ain't coming in droves, sorry. Grandma and Grandpa can't even afford to buy Precious Metals anymore, much less Bitcoin. Plus the MSM has mindfucked them to believe that Bitcoin is a scam.

Get the fuck out of here with your nonsense proclamation that regular Joes cannot afford bitcoin.  

They only believe that they cannot afford bitcoin, which seems to tie in with your overall point that they are being mindfucked by mainstream media.

Ultimately, you and I are likely pretty close to agreeing, and probably I am merely quibbling with the mixture of your nonsense points that are embedded into your other relatively decent points.      

Nah, I think you are just quibbling. I still stand by what I said. With the exception of Jimbo and maybe a few other guys here over the age of 60, most I have met have zero interest in Bitcoin. They think it's a scam created by the gubmint to get everyone into their "centralized digital currency" in order to control them. They don't trust it. They trust PMs more. Plus a lot of baby boomers are just flat broke and in debt. They are spending all their money on bills and trying to enjoy life.

If you go younger, in the 40-50 yr old range, you find a lot of guys that are just flat out hostile towards Bitcoin, like it threatens their very way of life or something. You should of heard the vitriol that my (former) Accountant was spewing about Bitcoin in 2013. Thank god I didn't listen to that idiot and dumped him. Most guys in that age range I've talked to simply scoff and laugh at the notion of buying any bitcoin.

I believe that you have to go down to the under-35 crowd before you start finding many people with an open mind toward Bitcoin...

It becomes harder to learn and consider new ideas the older you get. It's like cement, in the beginning it fills whatever form it's in. It starts getting dry and you can maybe put a handprint in it or something. Then it hardens into rock.

My grandpa couldn't figure out a cell phone. We gave him one, told him push the green button when it rings. He couldn't do it. Just how it goes.

If there is any hope left of turning the culture around, it lies with the young.

[Ibian]

(A) Delete more posts trying to steer the conversation away from Bitcoin
(B) Delete more offensive posts (nazi-related, etc.)
(C) Both of the above / general increase in moderation needed
(D) The moderation has been fine
(E) We need less moderation / pure anarchy
(F) We need a new thread moderator

I voted (D), because I know I couldn't do any better than Infofront. A thankless job, almost invisible if swiftly managed. I would also like a few more distracting posts deleted - in the direction of (B), not A or C. The problem is drawing a straight line and, more importantly, spending the energy - physical and emotional - to implement it. Calling him out is really a bit unforgiving.

Let's be honest: We all do take turns in engaging such unsavoury characters. I agree that the auto-propagation of /ignore's to direct quotes would be quite useful.

TL;DR Necessary evil. Deal with it. Use that button if you must.

Bitcoin is not just about money and tech, it's a cultural shift. Nazis are part of that. Get over it already.

[Last of the V8s]

[mymenace]

(A) Delete more posts trying to steer the conversation away from Bitcoin
(B) Delete more offensive posts (nazi-related, etc.)
(C) Both of the above / general increase in moderation needed
(D) The moderation has been fine
(E) We need less moderation / pure anarchy
(F) We need a new thread moderator

I voted (D), because I know I couldn't do any better than Infofront. A thankless job, almost invisible if swiftly managed. I would also like a few more distracting posts deleted - in the direction of (B), not A or C. The problem is drawing a straight line and, more importantly, spending the energy - physical and emotional - to implement it. Calling him out is really a bit unforgiving.

Let's be honest: We all do take turns in engaging such unsavoury characters. I agree that the auto-propagation of /ignore's to direct quotes would be quite useful.

TL;DR Necessary evil. Deal with it. Use that button if you must.

Bitcoin is not just about money and tech, it's a cultural shift. Nazis are part of that. Get over it already.

Prince Phillip would agree with so many cousins in the nazi family.
And then of course His wifes grandfather George who conspired to have his cousin Nicholas the Tsar overun by boshelviks
Needs his say too
So weird

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Saxe-Coburg_and_Gotha

The House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha is a German dynasty  ... sentiment in the United Kingdom during World War I, George V changed the name of his branch from "Saxe-Coburg and Gotha" to "Windsor" in 1917.


Always 1917, all happens in 1917 (weird)



Prince Edward and Adolf Hitler

[savetherainforest]

First of all, I am not attempting to bait anyone... You are just too fucking emotional...
<wordy words deleted>

It feels like the citizens of Wall Observer start to get bored... I have a feeling the price will start to do things! Nasty things!!!

[JayJuanGee]

(A) Delete more posts trying to steer the conversation away from Bitcoin
(B) Delete more offensive posts (nazi-related, etc.)
(C) Both of the above / general increase in moderation needed
(D) The moderation has been fine
(E) We need less moderation / pure anarchy
(F) We need a new thread moderator

I voted (D), because I know I couldn't do any better than Infofront. A thankless job, almost invisible if swiftly managed. I would also like a few more distracting posts deleted - in the direction of (B), not A or C. The problem is drawing a straight line and, more importantly, spending the energy - physical and emotional - to implement it. Calling him out is really a bit unforgiving.

Let's be honest: We all do take turns in engaging such unsavoury characters. I agree that the auto-propagation of /ignore's to direct quotes would be quite useful.

TL;DR Necessary evil. Deal with it. Use that button if you must.

Bitcoin is not just about money and tech, it's a cultural shift. Nazis are part of that. Get over it already.

Hahahahahaha... nice one, Ibian.

Trying to assert that Nazi-ism is not only related to bitcoin, but serves some kind of important spot in the whole scheme of bitcoin relevance...   Gotta give you a bit of credit for your creativity on that one, even though your point remains a bit of a stretch, especially the way those kinds of topics are frequently presented in this thread....

[JayJuanGee]

$19,666 on that same date (December 16, 2017)... since we use Bitstamp in these here parts as our BTC ATH price reference point.

[Last of the V8s]

Get the fuck outta here with your 'we' nonsense.
You don't get to dictate what I do.



See? I do what I like.

[Globb0]

Remember the good ol' days when this was the place to find out wtf was happening with the price?

Realdoll detected.

They have really done well to recreate the awkward silence of a real wife


Also, I saw this a few days ago. Really shocking.

TV news mind control in action. Stick to the script!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pL1zwMtz_Ho

[El duderino_]