Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Ibian]

The ice age is coming, the sun is zooming in
Meltdown expected and the wheat is growing thin
Engines stop running but I have no fear
[Sichuan] is drowning and I live by the river

ice age ... really ??     :      oslo become by hottest city in europe.. from may is there 25-30 celsius everyday an july will by same....  )))
     

Do you have any idea how HAPPY we are that it is not FUCKING COLD up here in the north?

[JayJuanGee]

yes.

if segwit is doomed like anunymint is praising, people would lose trust in bitcoin and blockchain as a whole. that's why there is no advantage in storing coins on legacy addresses.

Praising? Who says he is happy about it?

Something that might be interesting to consider is why some of you seem to be so invested in the idea of segwit being the ultimate good that you call anyone who question it, even on a technical security front, names. What's up with that?

Because many BTC HODLers want to believe that the Bitcoin core team is headed in the right direction. They want to believe that BTC, in it's current state, is antifragile.

Yes, but are they right? Want is a childish way to think. Which would be fine if it didn't matter, you do you etc. But emotions do not dictate physical reality. It is counterproductive.

What the fuck you talking about Ibian?   BTC is decentralized.  You seem to be framing "core" as if it is some kind of centralized team that is making decisions about the direction of bitcoin.  That is NOT the case.  You should understand a bit more about bitcoin, by now.  The direction of bitcoin becomes established by consensus.. and segwit was agreed to, tested, and then activated and implemented through consensus.

Each of us can decide the extent to which we want to invest into decentralized projects or to hedge our bets with various projects that are likely to be more centralized..   In other words, on the spectrum of centralization, there are no other projects that are as decentralized as bitcoin... If you have an example of one, then name it and describe how it is more decentralized than bitcoin.

[infofront]

Thanks, infofront, for deleting my previous comment in this thread.  You OBVIOUSLY noticed I've began deleting my own posts in this thread.  Too many damn trolls in here who don't appreciate good analysis.

Feel free to delete more.  I'm slowly going through all of my posts to delete ANY posts I've made in this thread.  It's not worthy of my time and effort.

No problem. It's not good practice to go around promoting your own thread and tradingview site, while being a dick to people asking questions.

Well, that's too bad. While I am skeptical about TA's applicability to Bitcoin (at least at this early adopter stage), at least dmwardjr was always on-topic and very sharing with unique information.

His exit lowers the level of discourse.

I agree. I deleted the one promotional post he left behind during his effort to purge all of his posts.

This was harsh, but not a deleteable offense (he took care of that):

Ok... So... up or down? 

Can you not read?  MY "BET" is for this being an Accumulation Schematic, Ass Hole.

[JayJuanGee]

In fact, I quite enjoy the ride.

Ice man, I have no idea how you do it.
I'm emotionally drained. I'd check myself in somewhere if they'd have me.

Having equity in your investment helps.  Having a cushion of equity helps.  Having a plan to buy more if price goes down helps.  Having confidence that the BTC price is likely to go up in the future helps.

[JayJuanGee]

Now that I've freed up some sixty hours per week, I might have not only inclination but also time to follow up on some of these areas of inquiry.

Congrats on achieving your extra time, jbreher, and sounds as if you largely accomplished such on your own terms.  Hopefully, your freed up time will move you a bit away from bcash shilling and/or bitcoin bashing to result in more meaningful contributions here.. to the extent that you continue to spend time here.

Let us pray.




Edited: Added response.

%43 btc dominance

Well, at least we get a silver lining.

"we"  ?  

Are you one of the described "we", jbreher?

Of course. If you don't know I have significant holdings of BTC, you haven't been paying attention.

Holding and trading BTC is one thing, but psychologically identifying as one of the "bitcoin in-group folks" - especially while simultaneously supporting BTC attack vectors (such as Bcash and whatever other BIG blocker nutjob talking point flavor of the month) seems to be a bit of a different animal and seems a lot more difficult to fit into "we" camp..  

Whatevs. BCH is not an attack vector.

Yes.  Surely, you and I are starting out with differing starting perspectives.  You have tended to want to read some kind of free market  "all is fair in love and war" acceptance of various BIG blocker attempts to undermine bitcoin.. and to recognize those supposed avenues to keep bitcoin in check as reasonable.

I just don't see it that way.. nor the ethics of attacking to be a fair and honest pursuit of ones vision.  surely, there can be academic ways to recognize the two sides of war, but I don't recognize a lot of the tactics of either bcashers or BIG blockers to fit within those fair and honest adversary. Sure, there are likely some good and decent people within the movements, but I find it reprehensible for folks to be supporting people like Roger Ver and Craig Wright.  Takes only a small amount of time to notice that each of those goofballs is 1) full of shit, 2) disingenuous, 3) an obsessed and emotional narcisist and likely some other negative descriptors that escape me at this moment.  Surely, bcash and BIG blockers are not just composed of nutjobs like Roger and Craig, but still they seem to be somewhat idolized by the BIG blocker and bcash community.

It is a Bitcoin-in-the-wings, awaiting the day that the masses realize that its fundamentals are better than BTC's.

You cannot give up on your bcash is bitcoin vision, and even though theoretically, i can accept that some projects could start out as scams and then progress into something meaningful, and even while bcash started out as a scam, the passage of time does not seem to be legitimizing it with any kind of legitimacy.. especially when it still seems to be engaged with deceptive practices that try to trick peeps into believing that it is "the real" bitcoin.  Hard to go along with that as legitimate or to consider it as anything other than a bitcoin attack vector.

BTC zigged, BCH zagged. Neither are satoshi's immutable protocol (haha - nod to Shelby). I prefer the zag - that's all.

Get the fuck out of here with that attempt at equivalency nonsense.

Bitcoin has the community and the networking effects.  Bcash does not even come close to serving as "the real" bitcoin.

[infofront]

Now that I've freed up some sixty hours per week, I might have not only inclination but also time to follow up on some of these areas of inquiry.

Congrats!

[Raja_MBZ]

Probably the funniest article I've ever read: https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/bitcoin-latest-price-concurrency-money-exchange-rate-analysis-a8424651.html

Bitcoin has fallen to its lowest point since November and will probably be totally wiped out

The last part of article includes the mega-hilarious stuff:

On scalability it pointed out that these currencies were now using enough electric power to run Switzerland. It follows that if they were to grow further there would not be enough power in the world to drive them. Stability, well – we have seen what has happened. And trust? The BIS thinks that the decentralised nature of cryptocurrencies is a weakness rather than a strength.

We will know the answer pretty soon. My instinct is that these cryptocurrencies will disappear in a puff of smoke. I just hope too many people are not too damaged when it happens.

Moreover, throughout the article, you'll find funny stuff like:

According to BitInfoChart, 87 per cent of all coins issues are held by 0.5 per cent of holders.

Even the account holding a single satoshi is included in their total "holders" percentage.

[JayJuanGee]

I don't think that core is paying anyone to troll...

With all the memory capacity of a gnat: https://twitter.com/adam3us/status/943876564856348673?lang=en

You are providing support that "core" has a marketing team?  Maybe this assertion flew over my head?



Edit:  fluidjax seems to have provided a more clear response on the topic.  Thanks fluidjax.

I don't think that core is paying anyone to troll...

With all the memory capacity of a gnat: https://twitter.com/adam3us/status/943876564856348673?lang=en

facts do matter! that's the most frustrating thing about interacting with some folks - they create so much false narrative and FUD, and confusion that's it's a large teams full time job to debunk and disprove! if we had less confusion, we'd have less drama.

Apparently this is the bit that proves Adam has employed a team of full time trolls... lol, what planet do you live on. That's nowhere near even the balance of probabilities.

[JayJuanGee]

27% of England’s Male Millennials Say Bitcoin Better Investment Than Property

Millennials Turning from Traditional Investments and Toward Crypto

let them  

Link or it didn't happen.  

Roger Ver's scam site bitcoin .com picked it up from http://www.getlivinglondon.com/pdfs/get_living_millennial_living_in_2018_report_first_look.pdf  ( https://archive.is/g6WkX )

You'd know that if you'd used a search engine on micgoossens' first line.

METHODOLOGY
This research was conducted online with n=3,065 millennials (aged 21 to 35 years old), living across the United Kingdom from 28th March – 4th April 2018. Results were weighted on gender overall and gender within each region of the United Kingdom to ensure representativeness.

Thanks for the link and the further elaboration.  I think that links help when making assertions that seem to be based on polls.

[HairyMaclairy]

It’s projection.  The preferred tool of bad actors everywhere. Because when they are later found to have committed misdeeds, then they can claim that both sides are just the same.

[infofront]

27% of England’s Male Millennials Say Bitcoin Better Investment Than Property

Millennials Turning from Traditional Investments and Toward Crypto

let them  

Link or it didn't happen.  

Roger Ver's scam site bitcoin .com picked it up from http://www.getlivinglondon.com/pdfs/get_living_millennial_living_in_2018_report_first_look.pdf  ( https://archive.is/g6WkX )

You'd know that if you'd used a search engine on micgoossens' first line.

METHODOLOGY
This research was conducted online with n=3,065 millennials (aged 21 to 35 years old), living across the United Kingdom from 28th March – 4th April 2018. Results were weighted on gender overall and gender within each region of the United Kingdom to ensure representativeness.

Thanks for the link and the further elaboration.  I think that links help when making assertions that seem to be based on polls.

In this video, Tom Lee talks a lot about how Cryptocurrencies are the preferred investment class of the millennial generation.
It's only 20 minutes or so - well worth watching IMO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGberGnxiJk

[Elwar]

In this video Tommy Lee is much more interesting and it is only 6 minutes long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWRYqyRi1yI

[Rosewater Foundation]

In fact, I quite enjoy the ride.

Ice man, I have no idea how you do it.
I'm emotionally drained. I'd check myself in somewhere if they'd have me.

Having equity in your investment helps.  Having a cushion of equity helps.  Having a plan to buy more if price goes down helps.  Having confidence that the BTC price is likely to go up in the future helps.

Cushions, pants, and confidence. What are luxury items some of us can no longer afford.

[JayJuanGee]

yes.

if segwit is doomed like anunymint is praising, people would lose trust in bitcoin and blockchain as a whole. that's why there is no advantage in storing coins on legacy addresses.

Praising? Who says he is happy about it?

Something that might be interesting to consider is why some of you seem to be so invested in the idea of segwit being the ultimate good that you call anyone who question it, even on a technical security front, names. What's up with that?

Because many BTC HODLers want to believe that the Bitcoin core team is headed in the right direction. They want to believe that BTC, in it's current state, is antifragile.

It is not pure "belief".  There is evidence to back up bitcoin being secure and ongoing attacks through physical attempts (such as spam), market manipulation and FUD spreading attempts.  So, anyone supporting and investing into BTC rather than pumping a bunch of alt coin and ICO nonsense gotta take "concern spreading" about BTC with a BIG ASS grain of salt.

Well, some people around here are treating this all like it's dogma.

Sure, there are going to be some folks who are like that, but I would imagine, you are mostly referring to a minority.  Folks looking in, are going to criticize bitcoin supporters like that, and generalize that it is like a BIG ass religion.  I might grant the point, if there were not actual solidly strong fundamentals behind BTC.  Alt coin pumping has way more religious attributes than bitcoin.. but whatever, I will grant that any of them, including bitcoin, could appear more like a religion if there is either some lack of understanding of its fundamentals or a failure to believe regarding the significance of some of the fundamentals.  I will also grant that there is a certain level of technicals, economics, politics, computer programming that must take some faith to accept because there are not too many people (even the really smart ones) who are going to understand all aspects of bitcoin, even if they specialize in some of them (including some of the developers not understanding some of the politics and economics, but they still end up supporting the right principles that cause bitcoin to serve as a stronger and stronger product of course with varying valuable use cases).

Reminds me of when I was in a class converting to Catholicism and I dare challenged the fact about Jesus actually being born on December 25th. The sister was aghast that I challenged this, and her reply was "because the church says so." Needless to say, I am no longer a practicing Catholic.

The whole experience might remind you of that, but of course, there are going to be considerable differences, and as many of us likely know there are likely a lot more holes in various religions whether we are referring to individual interpretation and practice or broader theories. 

[Rosewater Foundation]

In old skool degenerate news, Variety Jones has been extradited to the US.
https://www.deepdotweb.com/2018/06/30/suspected-silk-road-right-hand-man-extradited-to-the-us/

[JayJuanGee]

Thanks, infofront, for deleting my previous comment in this thread.  You OBVIOUSLY noticed I've began deleting my own posts in this thread.  Too many damn trolls in here who don't appreciate good analysis.

Feel free to delete more.  I'm slowly going through all of my posts to delete ANY posts I've made in this thread.  It's not worthy of my time and effort.

No problem. It's not good practice to go around promoting your own thread and tradingview site, while being a dick to people asking questions.

Well, that's too bad. While I am skeptical about TA's applicability to Bitcoin (at least at this early adopter stage), at least dmwardjr was always on-topic and very sharing with unique information.

His exit lowers the level of discourse.

I agree. I deleted the one promotional post he left behind during his effort to purge all of his posts.

This was harsh, but not a deleteable offense (he took care of that):

Seems like another one of those temper tantrum / rage quit scenarios of "I'm taking my marbles and going home."  hahahaha

[vphasitha01]

Monthly close is bear, daily is neutral, but more bear dominant, now waiting for weekly.

New daily pivots are:

Main pivot -6642
R1 - 7530 
S1 - 5500

[thejaytiesto]

post

At what point would you consider the segwit attack scenario expired? or it will be a constant realistic threat forever? What if it doesn't happen in 2019.. 2020.. 2025. At what point would you assume it doesn't happen (if ever)

The way I see it is, if you believe segwit is safe, then you have a bet opened against MP and co, anyone with power that doesn't like segwit basically, and this includes Jihan btw. On a long enough timeline if these forces collude you could lose that bet and then you are fucked, meanwhile if one holds 1coins then your btc is safe, and if Core ends up winning your btc is also safe. This gives you an incentive to keep coins in 1addresses already. Also if you need to "convince people to keep money in segwit addresses" for segwit to be safe it just shows it can't be safe, it's actually insane if that's the case. I dont know the technical details on this but i've kept my coins in 1addresses since segwit went live because of intuition. Any upgrades in bitcoin will always be controversial by default for whatever reasons, meanwhile no one is going to be able to defend going against the original format because the main point of bitcoin is always backward compatibility so who the fuck would be against that without being seen as an enemy. Therefore the default place to be is 1adrs.

PS: no, im not a big blocker or altcoiner. I dont understand why people assume that you are a bch fanboy if you criticize segwit in any way. Im not a fanboy of anyone, i dont care about anyone involved in these power wars, i just want my btc to be safe when they are done fucking each other up, and the conclusion ive arrived is i should keep my money in 1adrs, for reasons explained above.

[Torque]

The way I see it is, if you believe segwit is safe, then you have a bet opened against MP and co, anyone with power that doesn't like segwit basically, and this includes Jihan btw. On a long enough timeline if these forces collude you could lose that bet and then you are fucked, meanwhile if one holds 1coins then your btc is safe, and if Core ends up winning your btc is also safe. This gives you an incentive to keep coins in 1addresses already. Also if you need to "convince people to keep money in segwit addresses" for segwit to be safe it just shows it can't be safe, it's actually insane if that's the case. I dont know the technical details on this but i've kept my coins in 1addresses since segwit went live because of intuition. Any upgrades in bitcoin will always be controversial by default for whatever reasons, meanwhile no one is going to be able to defend going against the original format because the main point of bitcoin is always backward compatibility so who the fuck would be against that without being seen as an enemy. Therefore the default place to be is 1adrs.

Jihan Wu, Roger Ver, and the corrupt miners gang astroturfed this latest bullshit segwit FUD in order to scare Bitcoiners into using legacy addresses instead of SW. Purely because they are getting desperate now - coins aren't moving, and they need coins to move and they need all the transaction fees they can get.

Plain and simple.

[JayJuanGee]

In fact, I quite enjoy the ride.

Ice man, I have no idea how you do it.
I'm emotionally drained. I'd check myself in somewhere if they'd have me.

Having equity in your investment helps.  Having a cushion of equity helps.  Having a plan to buy more if price goes down helps.  Having confidence that the BTC price is likely to go up in the future helps.

Cushions, pants, and confidence. What are luxury items some of us can no longer afford.

You have to be exaggerating a bit, no?

I understand that you might not have been as bullish as you should have been about bitcoin in earlier times, but still haven't you made any money in bitcoin? 

You have been around long enough to get 3 digit BTC.. but let's say you really screwed up and your average cost per BTC is around $3k... .. aren't you still up 2x? 

Couldn't be as bad as you are making out the situation, even understanding that BTC prices are down about 70% from the mid-December 2017 peak.