Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[JayJuanGee]

^ Sarcasm? So you are denying that Litecoin doesn't have faster blocks? Are you?

Get the fuck out of here with your seemingly core crippled bullshit!

There are too many guys here pumping that bullshit crapola and taking that off-topic irrelevance seriously to be playing around... even though I do sufficiently get your point.

Good, please tell it to me, because I don't really get what my own point was. I was just being funny. Or trying to. Whatever comes first. YMMV.

Now that I really think about it... I could have a point... Litecoin halving is coming in a few months and no matter if you do or don't have any significant amount of LTC.... It will be an interesting event to watch and try to extrapolate to next Bitcoin halving.

Get used to it... not yet, not now, but it will come soon.

Yes, if you buy the theory about possible litecoin pumpening  being somehow a significant enough indicator regarding bitcoin's future price performance..... whatever... you are right.. members are going to place different values regarding what is important to talk about or focus on and/or whether they believe it is sufficiently enough related to this thread in order to NOT become annoying when there are other threads out there about the litecoin talking points.. so I personally question why to waste such time here.. but you seem to be more receptive along with other guys and perhaps gal.

[Toxic2040]

Saturday report

Apparently we have numerous boating enthusiasts amongst the faithful serving at the Wall.

In appreciation of the hard efforts and loyalty demonstrated on a daily basis by these tireless volunteers we are having a naval exhibition in your honor. If everyone is present you can board the small launch you see there in front of you. Yes, that one right there. As you can see..there is a safety locker right there..a very sturdy lead lined safety locker I might add. Yep..thats the one..right on the very rear edge of this small pleasure craft. Please feel free to place all valuable items inside the locker such as you might have with you...paper wallets, trezors, usb sticks and any private seeds...really anything you think necessary. We will begin this journey with a small jaunt across the water to rendezvous with the mother ship.
1h



oh look!  squirrel...coming along for the ride.
4h


Now that we have arrived at our destination ladies and gentlemen my I please direct you attention to the gantry to the right. Yep..thats the one..please make your way aboard where crew will direct you to quarters.

...I hate to even mention it..really..but for the record you see...ehem. Apparently there was a small incident crossing the bay..I sure it was nothing really..please pay no attention to me..enjoy your stay aboard.
D

#stronghands'19

[bitserve]

Important WO Announcement: increase your BTC stash

FTFY

FTFY

I have Dash, Zcash, Monero, Adex, Komod and SNT.
Make An important WO Announcement: increase your BTC stash when it's time.
I am not good on TA.

You should also buy some Bitcoin. Just saying... It's your call.... But don't come here whining later.

[Icygreen]

Not that I'm a big fan of Coinbase, but I gotta say that this astroturfed smear campaign against them, urging existing users to #DeleteCoinbase and newbies to stay away, has gone splendidly well. The whale market makers know what they are doing.

Can't wait for the inevitable bull run to start, with all these crying n00bs going "But...bbut...you guys said to delete my Coinbase acct, and now I wanna buy more Bitcoin^TM because the price is rising fast. Now it's gonna take me another month to get verified again for a new account!"

And also "But...bbut...now I can't cash out because I #DeleteCoinbase! Shiitttt!"

Torques' view is aging well it seems.  Where is that dude?  

[hisslyness]

... insults is all he's got.

I disagree with him on many (most) points but this...just ain't so.

For sure he's a smart guy and makes some good points.

"Smart" isn't in short supply. I grew up in a smart city, was surrounded by smart people, went to a smart university, got a smart degree. I'm just not impressed with "smart." Some people can be extremely intelligent by some measures and especially dumb in others. So what is "smart"?

In my experience, honesty and integrity are far more scarce and far more valuable attributes. I've watched "smart" people destroy the world around them, and themselves, during the course of my lifetime. I'm just not impressed by "smart."

If you break his points down and really analysis them, you will realise just how weak they really are.

Big Blocks is the solution! What a load of horse shit!

"A hard cap on on-chain txs is a hard cap on on-chain txs, any way you try to spin it." <- then it doesn't matter what size you raise the blocks? how could you advocate larger/bigger blocks when you do not believe in it as a solution to deal with transaction congestion. 1MB/8MB Same thing! Need a better solution. 1 Lane Highway/10 Lane highway, eventually you will get to the same issues at hand!

He say Layer 2 is a non solution, again, such ignorance to the fact you he uses layer 2 every day.

And his response to, "what happens when your 8MB block is not enough?", that's fine we will just keep raising the block size!

Lets keep raising it to the point where the blockchain/database/ledger is so massive, no one is going to want to run a full node.

The other misconception he is pushing is, "higher fees". As much as we all like to pay nothing for something, the true reality is, we need fees to keep bitcoin secure! We need the miners to do what they do, we need to reward them. The block rewards will be negligible in 3 - 4 halving times, we need fees to be as high as possible, if that means only using onchain to settle large value transaction.

There could be a layer 3, but on top LN (layer2), that could open and close channels without the need to write onchain, utilize existing onchain open channels. How do we that, i do not know, i am not smart enough and neither is jbreher.... but the difference is, i can see the possibilities and the potential..

[bitserve]

^ I can tell you how L3 would work. (custodial L1/L2 wallets) Global payment processors with deals between them.... except they will probably be using L2/L1 to settle between them regularly (ie: hourly?)

IF Bitcoin some day gets massively adopted, that's how it will be done. You can quote me for posterity.

[jojo69]

Torques' view is aging well it seems.  Where is that dude?  

now that you mention it...where indeed?


but Coinbase is sucking pretty hard these days, their new fee structure is eating 40% of my ladder profits and I still hate the "pro" UI

moving my activities to Bittrex a little bit at a time

[Toxic2040]

... insults is all he's got.

I disagree with him on many (most) points but this...just ain't so.

For sure he's a smart guy and makes some good points.

"Smart" isn't in short supply. I grew up in a smart city, was surrounded by smart people, went to a smart university, got a smart degree. I'm just not impressed with "smart." Some people can be extremely intelligent by some measures and especially dumb in others. So what is "smart"?

In my experience, honesty and integrity are far more scarce and far more valuable attributes. I've watched "smart" people destroy the world around them, and themselves, during the course of my lifetime. I'm just not impressed by "smart."

If you break his points down and really analysis them, you will realise just how weak they really are.

Big Blocks is the solution! What a load of horse shit!

"A hard cap on on-chain txs is a hard cap on on-chain txs, any way you try to spin it." <- then it doesn't matter what size you raise the blocks? how could you advocate larger/bigger blocks when you do not believe in it as a solution to deal with transaction congestion. 1MB/8MB Same thing! Need a better solution. 1 Lane Highway/10 Lane highway, eventually you will get to the same issues at hand!

He say Layer 2 is a non solution, again, such ignorance to the fact you he uses layer 2 every day.

And his response to, "what happens when your 8MB block is not enough?", that's fine we will just keep raising the block size!

Lets keep raising it to the point where the blockchain/database/ledger is so massive, no one is going to want to run a full node.

The other misconception he is pushing is, "higher fees". As much as we all like to pay nothing for something, the true reality is, we need fees to keep bitcoin secure! We need the miners to do what they do, we need to reward them. The block rewards will be negligible in 3 - 4 halving times, we need fees to be as high as possible, if that means only using onchain to settle large value transaction.

There could be a layer 3, but on top LN (layer2), that could open and close channels without the need to write onchain, utilize existing onchain open channels. How do we that, i do not know, i am not smart enough and neither is jbreher.... but the difference is, i can see the possibilities and the potential..

You can quote me for posterity.

+1 WOsMerit

[jbreher]

... insults is all he's got.

I disagree with him on many (most) points but this...just ain't so.

For sure he's a smart guy and makes some good points.

"Smart" isn't in short supply. I grew up in a smart city, was surrounded by smart people, went to a smart university, got a smart degree. I'm just not impressed with "smart." Some people can be extremely intelligent by some measures and especially dumb in others. So what is "smart"?

In my experience, honesty and integrity are far more scarce and far more valuable attributes. I've watched "smart" people destroy the world around them, and themselves, during the course of my lifetime. I'm just not impressed by "smart."

"A hard cap on on-chain txs is a hard cap on on-chain txs, any way you try to spin it." <- then it doesn't matter what size you raise the blocks? how could you advocate larger/bigger blocks when you do not believe in it as a solution to deal with transaction congestion.

WTF are you babbling about? I advocate larger blocks, as I do believe in it as a solution to deal with transaction congestion. Quite a splendid one, in fact.

Lets keep raising it to the point where the blockchain/database/ledger is so massive, no one is going to want to run a full node.

There will always be those who with to run a full node, if only for the ability to trustlessly process incoming payments.

The other misconception he is pushing is, "higher fees". As much as we all like to pay nothing for something, the true reality is, we need fees to keep bitcoin secure!

The miners don't need your centrally-planned price controls.

[Retina]

30% drop on Bitcoin incoming? Get ready to buy lower!
https://www.tradingview.com/chart/BTCUSD/y4lKlQbn-30-drop-on-Bitcoin-incoming-Get-ready-to-buy-lower/

what is your opinion?

[bitserve]

... insults is all he's got.

I disagree with him on many (most) points but this...just ain't so.

For sure he's a smart guy and makes some good points.

"Smart" isn't in short supply. I grew up in a smart city, was surrounded by smart people, went to a smart university, got a smart degree. I'm just not impressed with "smart." Some people can be extremely intelligent by some measures and especially dumb in others. So what is "smart"?

In my experience, honesty and integrity are far more scarce and far more valuable attributes. I've watched "smart" people destroy the world around them, and themselves, during the course of my lifetime. I'm just not impressed by "smart."

"A hard cap on on-chain txs is a hard cap on on-chain txs, any way you try to spin it." <- then it doesn't matter what size you raise the blocks? how could you advocate larger/bigger blocks when you do not believe in it as a solution to deal with transaction congestion.

WTF are you babbling about? I advocate larger blocks, as I do believe in it as a solution to deal with transaction congestion. Quite a splendid one, in fact.

Let's just babble about L1 as the only solution....

Any idea around how big should the blocksize be to support all VISA/Credit card tx's? How much would its blockchain grow for each year?

Now... Should crypto REALLY succeed (also) as a peer to peer cash system... How big should it be to even support 10% of current *CASH* payments/transactions worldwide?

...

There's no way crypto can *scale* MASSIVELY just on L1 alone.


P.S.: I do also advocate for "larger" blocks.... just not as large as you do. Just enough to support higher layers efficiently and maybe with some spare... and that whatever is implemented, it would be done with CONSENSUS to not harm the store of value proposition as a side effect.

[hisslyness]

^ I can tell you how L3 would work. (custodial L1/L2 wallets) Global payment processors with deals between them.... except they will probably be using L2/L1 to settle between them regularly (ie: hourly?)

IF Bitcoin some day gets massively adopted, that's how it will be done. You can quote me for posterity.

Yes i can see it happening that way, but what i meant was from a technical point of view how they will achieve this.. so it is trustless and open.

[bitserve]

^ I can tell you how L3 would work. (custodial L1/L2 wallets) Global payment processors with deals between them.... except they will probably be using L2/L1 to settle between them regularly (ie: hourly?)

IF Bitcoin some day gets massively adopted, that's how it will be done. You can quote me for posterity.

Yes i can see it happening that way, but what i meant was from a technical point of view how they will achieve this.. so it is trustless and open.

They will probably just reuse LN channels and just settle them regularly. With enough transactions, maybe they would be settling those channels hourly... after processing thousands of individual transactions in that time over each channel. Current LN channel capacity limit is just a temporary safety measure... It will get raised as needed.

[jbreher]

They will probably just reuse LN channels and just settle them regularly. With enough transactions, maybe they would be settling those channels hourly...

Settled? You mean become actualized on the Bitcoin chain?

Current LN channel capacity limit is just a temporary safety measure... It will get raised as needed.

That's what used to be said about block size.

[jojo69]

what is your opinion?

Elliot waits

[bitserve]

They will probably just reuse LN channels and just settle them regularly. With enough transactions, maybe they would be settling those channels hourly...

Settled? You mean become actualized on the Bitcoin chain?

Current LN channel capacity limit is just a temporary safety measure... It will get raised as needed.

That's what used to be said about block size.

Yes, it is not my problem as a user when (if ever) they settle my coffee payment. Or my burger. Or  my (whatever pocket money purchase) I did.
Maybe they don't even settle as often because, your know, incoming/outgoing tx's sometimes are not that much unbalanced (see banks, even though they do regularly settle).

But as I said, I just deposit some pocket BTC money in one of those providers and all that I care is that they route my small instant tx's.

For all the rest, there is L1.

About your second point... well, if they were as evil as you sometimes imply that they wanted to cripple L1 and just move everyone to L2 they would need to raise that limit.
So either they aren't or the limit will be raised.

In fact I am sure it will be raised, eventually.

I do also think the blocksize will be raised (moderately) sometime soon... if they don't, I will certainly be very dissapointed... probably not so much as to leave Bitcoin for [insert here your preferred alternate shitcoin], but dissapointed indeed.

[Retina]

what is your opinion?

Elliot waits

Sorry for mistake old image link past and double post now I solved it.

30% drop on Bitcoin incoming? Get ready to buy lower!
https://www.tradingview.com/chart/BTCUSD/y4lKlQbn-30-drop-on-Bitcoin-incoming-Get-ready-to-buy-lower/

what is your opinion?

[rolling]

... insults is all he's got.

I disagree with him on many (most) points but this...just ain't so.

For sure he's a smart guy and makes some good points.

"Smart" isn't in short supply. I grew up in a smart city, was surrounded by smart people, went to a smart university, got a smart degree. I'm just not impressed with "smart." Some people can be extremely intelligent by some measures and especially dumb in others. So what is "smart"?

In my experience, honesty and integrity are far more scarce and far more valuable attributes. I've watched "smart" people destroy the world around them, and themselves, during the course of my lifetime. I'm just not impressed by "smart."

"A hard cap on on-chain txs is a hard cap on on-chain txs, any way you try to spin it." <- then it doesn't matter what size you raise the blocks? how could you advocate larger/bigger blocks when you do not believe in it as a solution to deal with transaction congestion.

WTF are you babbling about? I advocate larger blocks, as I do believe in it as a solution to deal with transaction congestion. Quite a splendid one, in fact.

Let's just babble about L1 as the only solution....

Any idea around how big should the blocksize be to support all VISA/Credit card tx's? How much would its blockchain grow for each year?

Now... Should crypto REALLY succeed (also) as a peer to peer cash system... How big should it be to even support 10% of current *CASH* payments/transactions worldwide?

...

There's no way crypto can *scale* MASSIVELY just on L1 alone.


P.S.: I do also advocate for "larger" blocks.... just not as large as you do. Just enough to support higher layers efficiently and maybe with some spare... and that whatever is implemented, it would be done with CONSENSUS to not harm the store of value proposition as a side effect.

Nothing has to scale. One Bitcoin is going to be worth more than most people make in a lifetime. It will be transacted between governments, multinational companies and banks. Even the lighting network will be for the big boys. Nobody pays for coffee with gold. Visa works just fine for buying coffee, PayPal works great for other things. Move on to your shitcoin of choice for payments. Bitcoin will be fine without you.

[hisslyness]

... insults is all he's got.

I disagree with him on many (most) points but this...just ain't so.

For sure he's a smart guy and makes some good points.

"Smart" isn't in short supply. I grew up in a smart city, was surrounded by smart people, went to a smart university, got a smart degree. I'm just not impressed with "smart." Some people can be extremely intelligent by some measures and especially dumb in others. So what is "smart"?

In my experience, honesty and integrity are far more scarce and far more valuable attributes. I've watched "smart" people destroy the world around them, and themselves, during the course of my lifetime. I'm just not impressed by "smart."

"A hard cap on on-chain txs is a hard cap on on-chain txs, any way you try to spin it." <- then it doesn't matter what size you raise the blocks? how could you advocate larger/bigger blocks when you do not believe in it as a solution to deal with transaction congestion.

WTF are you babbling about? I advocate larger blocks, as I do believe in it as a solution to deal with transaction congestion. Quite a splendid one, in fact.

Lets keep raising it to the point where the blockchain/database/ledger is so massive, no one is going to want to run a full node.

There will always be those who with to run a full node, if only for the ability to trustlessly process incoming payments.

The other misconception he is pushing is, "higher fees". As much as we all like to pay nothing for something, the true reality is, we need fees to keep bitcoin secure!

The miners don't need your centrally-planned price controls.

You actually remind me of r0ach, when you can not defend your position or answer anything, you just go on a tangent and throw out statements which make no sense..

You still haven't mentioned what size blocks you think Bitcoin needs... reminds me of the little do'er carpet commercial, "tell them the price son!, the price!"

"Tell me the blocksize son! the blocksize!"

[hisslyness]

They will probably just reuse LN channels and just settle them regularly. With enough transactions, maybe they would be settling those channels hourly...

Settled? You mean become actualized on the Bitcoin chain?

Current LN channel capacity limit is just a temporary safety measure... It will get raised as needed.

That's what used to be said about block size.

Yes, it is not my problem as a user when (if ever) they settle my coffee payment. Or my burger. Or  my (whatever pocket money purchase) I did.
Maybe they don't even settle as often because, your know, incoming/outgoing tx's sometimes are not that much unbalanced (see banks, even though they do regularly settle).

But as I said, I just deposit some pocket BTC money in one of those providers and all that I care is that they route my small instant tx's.

For all the rest, there is L1.

About your second point... well, if they were as evil as you sometimes imply that they wanted to cripple L1 and just move everyone to L2 they would need to raise that limit.
So either they aren't or the limit will be raised.

In fact I am sure it will be raised, eventually.

I do also think the blocksize will be raised (moderately) sometime soon... if they don't, I will certainly be very dissapointed... probably not so much as to leave Bitcoin for [insert here your preferred alternate shitcoin], but dissapointed indeed.

There is no need to raise the blocksize, if you do you just push away the need for change, the need for innovative ways to build on top of Bitcoin. We would never be able to scale the usage of bitcoin to replace the VISA and MasterCard of this current corrupt system.

I am going on the record here and now, I believe lowering the block size would be more of a "positive move" for the bitcoin in the long term than increasing the size of the block.