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Question: What year will we achieve a new ATH?
2019 - 43 (28.7%)
2020 - 59 (39.3%)
2021 - 34 (22.7%)
2022 - 8 (5.3%)
2023 - 1 (0.7%)
Never - 5 (3.3%)
Total Voters: 150

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 21180313 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (24 posts by 13 users deleted.)
Toxic2040
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April 07, 2019, 01:03:44 AM
Merited by hisslyness (1)

... insults is all he's got.

I disagree with him on many (most) points but this...just ain't so.

For sure he's a smart guy and makes some good points.

"Smart" isn't in short supply. I grew up in a smart city, was surrounded by smart people, went to a smart university, got a smart degree. I'm just not impressed with "smart." Some people can be extremely intelligent by some measures and especially dumb in others. So what is "smart"?

In my experience, honesty and integrity are far more scarce and far more valuable attributes. I've watched "smart" people destroy the world around them, and themselves, during the course of my lifetime. I'm just not impressed by "smart."

If you break his points down and really analysis them, you will realise just how weak they really are.

Big Blocks is the solution! What a load of horse shit!

"A hard cap on on-chain txs is a hard cap on on-chain txs, any way you try to spin it." <- then it doesn't matter what size you raise the blocks? how could you advocate larger/bigger blocks when you do not believe in it as a solution to deal with transaction congestion. 1MB/8MB Same thing! Need a better solution. 1 Lane Highway/10 Lane highway, eventually you will get to the same issues at hand!

He say Layer 2 is a non solution, again, such ignorance to the fact you he uses layer 2 every day.

And his response to, "what happens when your 8MB block is not enough?", that's fine we will just keep raising the block size!

Lets keep raising it to the point where the blockchain/database/ledger is so massive, no one is going to want to run a full node.

The other misconception he is pushing is, "higher fees". As much as we all like to pay nothing for something, the true reality is, we need fees to keep bitcoin secure! We need the miners to do what they do, we need to reward them. The block rewards will be negligible in 3 - 4 halving times, we need fees to be as high as possible, if that means only using onchain to settle large value transaction.

There could be a layer 3, but on top LN (layer2), that could open and close channels without the need to write onchain, utilize existing onchain open channels. How do we that, i do not know, i am not smart enough and neither is jbreher.... but the difference is, i can see the possibilities and the potential..





You can quote me for posterity.

+1 WOsMerit

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jbreher
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April 07, 2019, 01:05:34 AM

... insults is all he's got.

I disagree with him on many (most) points but this...just ain't so.

For sure he's a smart guy and makes some good points.

"Smart" isn't in short supply. I grew up in a smart city, was surrounded by smart people, went to a smart university, got a smart degree. I'm just not impressed with "smart." Some people can be extremely intelligent by some measures and especially dumb in others. So what is "smart"?

In my experience, honesty and integrity are far more scarce and far more valuable attributes. I've watched "smart" people destroy the world around them, and themselves, during the course of my lifetime. I'm just not impressed by "smart."

"A hard cap on on-chain txs is a hard cap on on-chain txs, any way you try to spin it." <- then it doesn't matter what size you raise the blocks? how could you advocate larger/bigger blocks when you do not believe in it as a solution to deal with transaction congestion.

WTF are you babbling about? I advocate larger blocks, as I do believe in it as a solution to deal with transaction congestion. Quite a splendid one, in fact.

Quote
Lets keep raising it to the point where the blockchain/database/ledger is so massive, no one is going to want to run a full node.

There will always be those who with to run a full node, if only for the ability to trustlessly process incoming payments.

Quote
The other misconception he is pushing is, "higher fees". As much as we all like to pay nothing for something, the true reality is, we need fees to keep bitcoin secure!

The miners don't need your centrally-planned price controls.
Retina
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April 07, 2019, 01:39:51 AM

30% drop on Bitcoin incoming? Get ready to buy lower!
https://www.tradingview.com/chart/BTCUSD/y4lKlQbn-30-drop-on-Bitcoin-incoming-Get-ready-to-buy-lower/

Quote

what is your opinion?
bitserve
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April 07, 2019, 01:41:19 AM
Last edit: April 07, 2019, 01:54:15 AM by bitserve

... insults is all he's got.

I disagree with him on many (most) points but this...just ain't so.

For sure he's a smart guy and makes some good points.

"Smart" isn't in short supply. I grew up in a smart city, was surrounded by smart people, went to a smart university, got a smart degree. I'm just not impressed with "smart." Some people can be extremely intelligent by some measures and especially dumb in others. So what is "smart"?

In my experience, honesty and integrity are far more scarce and far more valuable attributes. I've watched "smart" people destroy the world around them, and themselves, during the course of my lifetime. I'm just not impressed by "smart."

"A hard cap on on-chain txs is a hard cap on on-chain txs, any way you try to spin it." <- then it doesn't matter what size you raise the blocks? how could you advocate larger/bigger blocks when you do not believe in it as a solution to deal with transaction congestion.

WTF are you babbling about? I advocate larger blocks, as I do believe in it as a solution to deal with transaction congestion. Quite a splendid one, in fact.



Let's just babble about L1 as the only solution....

Any idea around how big should the blocksize be to support all VISA/Credit card tx's? How much would its blockchain grow for each year?

Now... Should crypto REALLY succeed (also) as a peer to peer cash system... How big should it be to even support 10% of current *CASH* payments/transactions worldwide?

...

There's no way crypto can *scale* MASSIVELY just on L1 alone.


P.S.: I do also advocate for "larger" blocks.... just not as large as you do. Just enough to support higher layers efficiently and maybe with some spare... and that whatever is implemented, it would be done with CONSENSUS to not harm the store of value proposition as a side effect.
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April 07, 2019, 01:58:41 AM

^ I can tell you how L3 would work. (custodial L1/L2 wallets) Global payment processors with deals between them.... except they will probably be using L2/L1 to settle between them regularly (ie: hourly?)

IF Bitcoin some day gets massively adopted, that's how it will be done. You can quote me for posterity.

Yes i can see it happening that way, but what i meant was from a technical point of view how they will achieve this.. so it is trustless and open.
bitserve
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April 07, 2019, 02:20:06 AM

^ I can tell you how L3 would work. (custodial L1/L2 wallets) Global payment processors with deals between them.... except they will probably be using L2/L1 to settle between them regularly (ie: hourly?)

IF Bitcoin some day gets massively adopted, that's how it will be done. You can quote me for posterity.

Yes i can see it happening that way, but what i meant was from a technical point of view how they will achieve this.. so it is trustless and open.

They will probably just reuse LN channels and just settle them regularly. With enough transactions, maybe they would be settling those channels hourly... after processing thousands of individual transactions in that time over each channel. Current LN channel capacity limit is just a temporary safety measure... It will get raised as needed.

jbreher
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April 07, 2019, 02:24:45 AM

They will probably just reuse LN channels and just settle them regularly. With enough transactions, maybe they would be settling those channels hourly...

Settled? You mean become actualized on the Bitcoin chain?

Quote
Current LN channel capacity limit is just a temporary safety measure... It will get raised as needed.

That's what used to be said about block size.
jojo69
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April 07, 2019, 02:30:07 AM

what is your opinion?

Elliot waits
bitserve
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April 07, 2019, 02:35:37 AM

They will probably just reuse LN channels and just settle them regularly. With enough transactions, maybe they would be settling those channels hourly...

Settled? You mean become actualized on the Bitcoin chain?

Quote
Current LN channel capacity limit is just a temporary safety measure... It will get raised as needed.

That's what used to be said about block size.

Yes, it is not my problem as a user when (if ever) they settle my coffee payment. Or my burger. Or  my (whatever pocket money purchase) I did.
Maybe they don't even settle as often because, your know, incoming/outgoing tx's sometimes are not that much unbalanced (see banks, even though they do regularly settle).

But as I said, I just deposit some pocket BTC money in one of those providers and all that I care is that they route my small instant tx's.

For all the rest, there is L1.

About your second point... well, if they were as evil as you sometimes imply that they wanted to cripple L1 and just move everyone to L2 they would need to raise that limit.
So either they aren't or the limit will be raised.

In fact I am sure it will be raised, eventually.

I do also think the blocksize will be raised (moderately) sometime soon... if they don't, I will certainly be very dissapointed... probably not so much as to leave Bitcoin for [insert here your preferred alternate shitcoin], but dissapointed indeed.
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April 07, 2019, 02:51:48 AM

what is your opinion?

Elliot waits
Sorry for mistake old image link past and double post now I solved it.

Quote
30% drop on Bitcoin incoming? Get ready to buy lower!
https://www.tradingview.com/chart/BTCUSD/y4lKlQbn-30-drop-on-Bitcoin-incoming-Get-ready-to-buy-lower/

Quote

what is your opinion?
rolling
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April 07, 2019, 03:23:38 AM

... insults is all he's got.

I disagree with him on many (most) points but this...just ain't so.

For sure he's a smart guy and makes some good points.

"Smart" isn't in short supply. I grew up in a smart city, was surrounded by smart people, went to a smart university, got a smart degree. I'm just not impressed with "smart." Some people can be extremely intelligent by some measures and especially dumb in others. So what is "smart"?

In my experience, honesty and integrity are far more scarce and far more valuable attributes. I've watched "smart" people destroy the world around them, and themselves, during the course of my lifetime. I'm just not impressed by "smart."

"A hard cap on on-chain txs is a hard cap on on-chain txs, any way you try to spin it." <- then it doesn't matter what size you raise the blocks? how could you advocate larger/bigger blocks when you do not believe in it as a solution to deal with transaction congestion.

WTF are you babbling about? I advocate larger blocks, as I do believe in it as a solution to deal with transaction congestion. Quite a splendid one, in fact.



Let's just babble about L1 as the only solution....

Any idea around how big should the blocksize be to support all VISA/Credit card tx's? How much would its blockchain grow for each year?

Now... Should crypto REALLY succeed (also) as a peer to peer cash system... How big should it be to even support 10% of current *CASH* payments/transactions worldwide?

...

There's no way crypto can *scale* MASSIVELY just on L1 alone.


P.S.: I do also advocate for "larger" blocks.... just not as large as you do. Just enough to support higher layers efficiently and maybe with some spare... and that whatever is implemented, it would be done with CONSENSUS to not harm the store of value proposition as a side effect.

Nothing has to scale. One Bitcoin is going to be worth more than most people make in a lifetime. It will be transacted between governments, multinational companies and banks. Even the lighting network will be for the big boys. Nobody pays for coffee with gold. Visa works just fine for buying coffee, PayPal works great for other things. Move on to your shitcoin of choice for payments. Bitcoin will be fine without you.
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April 07, 2019, 03:31:49 AM

... insults is all he's got.

I disagree with him on many (most) points but this...just ain't so.

For sure he's a smart guy and makes some good points.

"Smart" isn't in short supply. I grew up in a smart city, was surrounded by smart people, went to a smart university, got a smart degree. I'm just not impressed with "smart." Some people can be extremely intelligent by some measures and especially dumb in others. So what is "smart"?

In my experience, honesty and integrity are far more scarce and far more valuable attributes. I've watched "smart" people destroy the world around them, and themselves, during the course of my lifetime. I'm just not impressed by "smart."

"A hard cap on on-chain txs is a hard cap on on-chain txs, any way you try to spin it." <- then it doesn't matter what size you raise the blocks? how could you advocate larger/bigger blocks when you do not believe in it as a solution to deal with transaction congestion.

WTF are you babbling about? I advocate larger blocks, as I do believe in it as a solution to deal with transaction congestion. Quite a splendid one, in fact.

Quote
Lets keep raising it to the point where the blockchain/database/ledger is so massive, no one is going to want to run a full node.

There will always be those who with to run a full node, if only for the ability to trustlessly process incoming payments.

Quote
The other misconception he is pushing is, "higher fees". As much as we all like to pay nothing for something, the true reality is, we need fees to keep bitcoin secure!

The miners don't need your centrally-planned price controls.


You actually remind me of r0ach, when you can not defend your position or answer anything, you just go on a tangent and throw out statements which make no sense..

You still haven't mentioned what size blocks you think Bitcoin needs... reminds me of the little do'er carpet commercial, "tell them the price son!, the price!"

"Tell me the blocksize son! the blocksize!"

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April 07, 2019, 03:46:09 AM

They will probably just reuse LN channels and just settle them regularly. With enough transactions, maybe they would be settling those channels hourly...

Settled? You mean become actualized on the Bitcoin chain?

Quote
Current LN channel capacity limit is just a temporary safety measure... It will get raised as needed.

That's what used to be said about block size.

Yes, it is not my problem as a user when (if ever) they settle my coffee payment. Or my burger. Or  my (whatever pocket money purchase) I did.
Maybe they don't even settle as often because, your know, incoming/outgoing tx's sometimes are not that much unbalanced (see banks, even though they do regularly settle).

But as I said, I just deposit some pocket BTC money in one of those providers and all that I care is that they route my small instant tx's.

For all the rest, there is L1.

About your second point... well, if they were as evil as you sometimes imply that they wanted to cripple L1 and just move everyone to L2 they would need to raise that limit.
So either they aren't or the limit will be raised.

In fact I am sure it will be raised, eventually.

I do also think the blocksize will be raised (moderately) sometime soon... if they don't, I will certainly be very dissapointed... probably not so much as to leave Bitcoin for [insert here your preferred alternate shitcoin], but dissapointed indeed.

There is no need to raise the blocksize, if you do you just push away the need for change, the need for innovative ways to build on top of Bitcoin. We would never be able to scale the usage of bitcoin to replace the VISA and MasterCard of this current corrupt system.

I am going on the record here and now, I believe lowering the block size would be more of a "positive move" for the bitcoin in the long term than increasing the size of the block.


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April 07, 2019, 03:51:00 AM

... insults is all he's got.

I disagree with him on many (most) points but this...just ain't so.

For sure he's a smart guy and makes some good points.

"Smart" isn't in short supply. I grew up in a smart city, was surrounded by smart people, went to a smart university, got a smart degree. I'm just not impressed with "smart." Some people can be extremely intelligent by some measures and especially dumb in others. So what is "smart"?

In my experience, honesty and integrity are far more scarce and far more valuable attributes. I've watched "smart" people destroy the world around them, and themselves, during the course of my lifetime. I'm just not impressed by "smart."

"A hard cap on on-chain txs is a hard cap on on-chain txs, any way you try to spin it." <- then it doesn't matter what size you raise the blocks? how could you advocate larger/bigger blocks when you do not believe in it as a solution to deal with transaction congestion.

WTF are you babbling about? I advocate larger blocks, as I do believe in it as a solution to deal with transaction congestion. Quite a splendid one, in fact.

Quote
Lets keep raising it to the point where the blockchain/database/ledger is so massive, no one is going to want to run a full node.

There will always be those who with to run a full node, if only for the ability to trustlessly process incoming payments.

Quote
The other misconception he is pushing is, "higher fees". As much as we all like to pay nothing for something, the true reality is, we need fees to keep bitcoin secure!

The miners don't need your centrally-planned price controls.


You actually remind me of r0ach, when you can not defend your position or answer anything, you just go on a tangent and throw out statements which make no sense..

You still haven't mentioned what size blocks you think Bitcoin needs... reminds me of the little do'er carpet commercial, "tell them the price son!, the price!"

"Tell me the blocksize son! the blocksize!"


You are the one going off on tangents and ignoring the points that he's making.

And no, lowering the block size would almost certainly kill it right now because people would be incapable of using it and hence likely move elsewhere.

Disagreeing with larger blocks is one thing, although you have failed to produce any sensible argument against it. But advocating for lowering the block size just indicates that you're just running your mouth.

Are you perhaps trying to farm merits so you can join some signature campaign?
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April 07, 2019, 04:33:23 AM

1h
VB1001
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April 07, 2019, 05:24:59 AM

30% drop on Bitcoin incoming? Get ready to buy lower!
https://www.tradingview.com/chart/BTCUSD/y4lKlQbn-30-drop-on-Bitcoin-incoming-Get-ready-to-buy-lower/

what is your opinion?

Rinse and Repeat or Hold, where you are most comfortable.
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April 07, 2019, 05:31:30 AM

reserve the order Lambos, Aston, Bentley... Cool

meh. I'm thinking more on the order of Cirrus or Epic.

Lol, You are on another level. Wink
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April 07, 2019, 05:35:41 AM



We go back to the launching ramp.
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April 07, 2019, 05:37:07 AM

30% drop on Bitcoin incoming? Get ready to buy lower!
https://www.tradingview.com/chart/BTCUSD/y4lKlQbn-30-drop-on-Bitcoin-incoming-Get-ready-to-buy-lower/

what is your opinion?

Rinse and Repeat or Hold, where you are most comfortable.

I love drop, I love making money with this trend.
30 is huge, its bigger than the price we have jumped so far, but that is not new, it's pretty normal to the market.
Let the pump and dump begin.
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April 07, 2019, 06:04:04 AM

Thanks.

I thought it conveyed the atlatl like extra bit of overshoot pretty well.

I noticed trebuchet as a verb, as well. So much more 'physics and stuff' than the old catapults. And more accurate. The hinged weight, and the sling makes all the difference.

I built one of posterboard, reinforced with Popsicle sticks. The bucket was weighted with coins, I had an adjustable pin for release.  I could put a marble into a monitor, 3 cubes away, every time. Nerf guns in the office? Fear this.    A simulation here:  http://www.virtualtrebuchet.com/
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