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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26372130 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 3 users with 9 merit deleted.)
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June 15, 2020, 07:57:12 AM
Last edit: June 15, 2020, 08:07:51 AM by jbreher
Merited by JimboToronto (2), xhomerx10 (1)

^ you underestimate the circumstances of the current generation of protesters. They have been trashed on the economic scrap pile since entering the workforce, not had jobs having a pick of vocations like the boomers.

Maybe I'm out of touch, but I really don't get this whine. Economic progress is so simple it is stupid. Create something of value that someone else is willing to pay you for. End of story.

Bulls. You'll make a shit when you don't have a capital to educate yourself for beginners. It's like saying you should run and win a race if you're good enough even if you're way behind on starting point.

Capitalist systems, specially the one in USA are made for rich to stay rich and poor to be their legal slaves forever. Sure, there will be one, two or 10 examples of people coming out by some strange way, but 99.99% of them will always serve their masters as they just didn't have a chance to do anything different. The rich will educate their kids ant best universities and prepare them to take over as next generation leafders and the rest will continue to eat their dust.

You think some poor guy coming from poor neighborhood have a chance of coming with covid-19 vaccine, either as owner of the company or as one of lead scientists working for it and make billions/millions from that business? He has my arse. He neither has a chance to educate himself to come close to those circles or to have a capital to be an entrepreneur behind it.

Nobody starts at the top. If shit needs shovelin' then make your living shoveling shit. Once you learn how to that efficiently, teach someone else how to do so as well. Employ them in the shit shovelin' business. After going through a few shit shovelers, mostly who would rather whine than actually work, you'll develop some managerial skills and money management skills. Which are transferable skills which will allow you to build a veritable shit shoveling empire.

Don't shovel shit at me telling me there are no opportunities. Plenty of shit in the world needs shovelin'.

Nobody starts at top my arse. Ask Trump. Or Bushs. Or Kennedys...... when you are stripped of good starting positions, good education before everything else, you can suck someone's dick. Unless you mined Bitcoin early and hodled. This world is designed to make rich richer and to transfer that to the next generation of their kids. It was always like that with kings and shit, unless it was changed by sword. But just to make another group rich and powerful, until the sword hits again.

Yup. Some people are born strong. Some tall. Some smart. Some rich. Life isn't fair. Tough titties. But almost everybody has some opportunity for bettering their economic condition. All I'm hearing from you is a buncha whining about how it ain't a level playing field. No shit. Two choices: 1) Whine and wallow, or; 2) Buck up and expend some effort at bettering yourself.

And to return to point where I first responded, it is not the case that there is zero opportunity for the current generation of protesters, and it is also untrue that the boomers were able to just waltz into the job of their choosing.
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June 15, 2020, 08:01:50 AM
Last edit: June 15, 2020, 08:22:21 AM by OutOfMemory
Merited by vapourminer (1)

Funny that mindrust wants to ascribe tension and emotions to us.

Why the fuck would we be emotional or tense when we are 2x higher in price than the price that mindrust sold all of his BTC?

Surely, many of us are prepared for either UP or DOWN, and of course, not everyone is equally prepared for either UP or down, but there are NOT too many who sold their whole stash of BTC at $4,500-ish.... and especially after spending a couple of years building such a BTC position and then now trying to retroactively justify that erratic spontaneous behavior and trying to live with that level of mistaken emotional decision.. and still having some hopium that the mistake from 3 months ago might not have been so much of a mistake?

grasping... grasping.. grasping...

while asserting that we, here (the other ones of us) are supposedly the emotional ones in this situation.    There tends to be a lot less emotion when, at least, your BTC holdings are largely in profits.... What a puzzle.... What a puzzle...., mindrust?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

This is called projection, a very common thing.
The angry dude believes everybody is angry at him, so he's using that imagination to justify his angry self(ie).
I don't know if and how good Paul Watzlawick's books were translated into english, but that's a perfect read on these matters.


Yup. Some people are born strong. Some tall. Some smart. Some rich. Life isn't fair. Tough titties. But almost everybody has some opportunity for bettering their economic condition. All I'm hearing from you is a buncha whining about how it ain't a level playing field. No shit. Two choices: 1) Whine and wallow, or; 2) Buck up and expend some effort at bettering yourself.


Now that's only true if you look at it this way.
I was born tall, i was the second smallest kid in school.
Nobody is born smart. Most babies are hindered to grow smart by taking over stupid believes from their trusted ones (parents, idols and others).
Nobody is born rich.

Instead we're all born naked, hungry, poor and frightened. Life is just life, and that is the fair part of it.
I'll tell you what's not fair: Society is not fair, distribution of wealth or education is not fair, being pre-judged by other humans is not fair, stigmatization is not fair.
Life is nothing like that. Instead, it's part of the current stage of human evolution. We're all almost as dumb as apes, but we believe that we are great, a master species. The most important differences are that our thumbs are opposed to the other fingers and that we developed communication (which is still faulty and primitive, btw).
It's wrong to assume we are homo sapiens (wise humans), we didn't remotely touch the state of "wise" in any way, but this narrative lets us believe so, which is also what keeps us from reaching anything like real wisdom.
Only some did yet, and those keep quiet. For a reason.
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June 15, 2020, 08:17:39 AM

You'll do whatever you are going to do no matter what I think or say just like I did and will do no matter what you think about me.

I like this forum because I like to talk to real people and discuss stuff (politics, finance, gambling, lifestyle and anything else) while I work and I almost work all the time. This topic in particular acts like a chatbox.  Grin (or trollbox?)

If you make your financial decisions based on my posts you are screwed. The data is out there you can read it yourself and make your own decisions. (Charts, prices, news etc)

If you believe I have the power to trigger a black swan event, then you are delusional.
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June 15, 2020, 08:25:17 AM

You'll do whatever you are going to do no matter what I think or say just like I did and will do no matter what you think about me.

I like this forum because I like to talk to real people and discuss stuff (politics, finance, gambling, lifestyle and anything else) while I work and I almost work all the time. This topic in particular acts like a chatbox.  Grin (or trollbox?)

If you make your financial decisions based on my posts you are screwed. The data is out there you can read it yourself and make your own decisions. (Charts, prices, news etc)

If you believe I have the power to trigger a black swan event, then you are delusional.

Alright, then please name me one Member of WO who did explicitly expect that you would sell the bottom.
If you can't, you indirectly prove the black swan criteria as true. (Something happening nobody expected).

Go on. I can play well  Grin

EDIT: And yes. Calling this event a black swan was a bet i've no problem to lose (should i lose it).
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June 15, 2020, 08:28:03 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

Two tips:

Don't put all your eggs in one basket.
Plausible deniability -- A $5 wrench is too damn cheap.

Hey man, spot on on your last security comments  Wink
Can you please point me out something good to read on the plausible deniability topic? Thanks!

Hi, I would point you to Wikipedia, but I just checked it and it's too general, too long (as if this isn't...), not an easy read.

Plausible deniability, as it applies here, is the ability to plausibly deny ownership of your Bitcoin when required to reveal your stash (legally, or by force).

Case 1 (legally): You cross the border to another country, and, upon inspection, customs find your Trezor in your briefcase, or find a wallet s/w on your phone. They may force you to reveal information about your stash. In fact, there are laws that make it a punishable crime not to reveal your passwords in such cases, and if you don't, you may be arrested and detained. What do you do? Can you just say "guys, it's empty!"? They will say "OK, show us!" How can you circumvent this?

Case 2 (by force): You are a coiner. You tell about your coins to friends and relatives. All in good faith. They are impressed by your newfound wealth. They are so excited that they tell their friends about you and how smart you are. Word spreads. You end up being kidnapped and forced (by torture) to reveal your stash. Can you just say "guys, it's empty!"? I don't think so. How can you circumvent this?

Deniability won't help you in such cases, unless it's paired with plausibility. With Trezor (and Ledger, etc.), in addition to the 24 words that make up your seed, you are allowed to enter another (25th) passphrase (word, sentence, any alphanumeric string). This will result in a wallet (key) that is totally different to the one without the 25th passphrase. In fact, when you connect your Trezor and are asked for the 25th passphrase, you can type anything you want, and it will lead to different valid wallets, depending on what you typed. In this way, you can have (in fact, you already have) an infinite number of wallets, all of which have your seed in common, but are cryptographically unrelated, in the sense that access to one such wallet is completely isolated from any other wallet.

The central idea that you must understand, is that you already have all these wallets, whether you want them or not. There is no switch that you can use to enable or disable a wallet. It's already there. Think of this as driving on the highway, and there are infinite number of exits. Your 24-word seed is the highway, and the 25th passphrase determines the exit you want to take. The exits are all there, an infinite number of them, and they all lead to valid wallets. Of course, all these wallets will be empty when you visit them (well, not necessarily, but that's another discussion). The highway itself is also a wallet (no passphrase entered). This is why it's not advisable to use a seed without a 25th passphrase. Because, in this case, if someone finds your seed, he can enter your highway, and if your coins are on that highway, he can steal them from you. But if you use a 25th passphrase, the highway will be empty, and containing an infinite number of exits. Which exit to take? He needs to know the 25th passphrase, which he won't. Your coins are safe.

How is all this related to plausible deniability? You can use the 25th passphrase to plausibly deny ownership of your coins. You set up your Trezor as normal, writing down and backing up your 24 seed words. What you then do, is transfer a very small amount of Bitcoin (say, 0.1 BTC) to the wallet without a 25th passphrase (the highway). You put that 0.1 BTC there. Then, you reconnect your Trezor, but this time you enter a 25th passphrase, let's call it {normal_pass}. You end up on a different, empty wallet. In there, you transfer a bigger amount of Bitcoin, large enough to persuade someone that it's everything you've got, let's say, 10 BTC. You don't transfer all your stash there, just that 10 BTC. You then reconnect your Trezor, but this time you enter a very strong 25th passphrase, let's call it {really_strong_pass}. You end up on yet another empty wallet. In that wallet you transfer the remaining of your stash, say, 100 BTC.

What have you achieved by doing the above? With just one seed (written on paper and backed up) and 2 passphrases in your head, you have spread your stash in the following three different, cryptographically unrelated wallets (i.e., having access to one of the wallets does not grant access to any of the other wallets, and does not prove that you are using any other wallet):

No passphrase: 0.1 BTC
{normal_pass}: 10 BTC
{really_strong_pass}: 100 BTC

Case 1: "Sir, can you please unlock your wallet for us?" -- "Why?" -- "We want to see how many coins you have." -- "But, isn't this private information?" -- "Yes, but Law XYZ, that was passed after 9/11, to combat terrorist activities, gives us authority to do whatever we want!" -- "Oh, hmmm, I'm not comfortable with this..." You play difficult, you ask to see the law, trying to stall them. After a while, and when the pressure on you becomes too much, you say "OK, I don't like this at all, but here you are." You connect your Trezor to your laptop, and just enter the PIN (no 25th passphrase). You have just entered the "highway" wallet, which contains 0.1 BTC. "There you go, motherfuckers! Fuck you!", you scream! They say, "Sir, I'm afraid we'll have to confiscate your wallet and the coins." -- "Sure," you reply, "take it and stick it up your bum, you fucks!" You hand them your Trezor and they let you pass. When you arrive safely at your destination, you simply enter your seed to any wallet you want (Trezor, Ledger, Mycelium), and you log-in with the two "25th" passphrases, confirming what mathematics have guaranteed for you, which is that your 110 BTC are there, untouched, waiting for you.

Case 2: You are tied to a chair, and a big guy asks you for your Trezor PIN, "or else I'm going to cut your fingers one by one!" You try to resist at first, but quickly reveal the PIN. They see the 0.1 BTC. But they're smart. They know you have more! They begin to torture you, at which point you have to be prepared to take some beating and even lose a finger! You have to resist as much as you can. When you can't take it anymore, and you're screaming and crying like a little girl, all humiliated and seemingly completely wrecked, you reveal {normal_pass} to them. They enter the 25th passphrase and see your shiny 10 BTC in there. "Gotcha!" they shout! They transfer the funds, destroy (or take with them) your Trezor, and leave. The next day, you enter your seed in another wallet, enter {really_strong_pass} and confirm that your 100 BTC are there, untouched, waiting for you.

The above are idealized scenarios. You can be sure that, if you go out and about boasting to colleagues, friends and family that you own 100+ BTC, the thieves will cut your fingers, arms, legs, and even your dick (if you have one), before they get your entire stash! Plausible deniability is a great tool to protect us and our Bitcoin, but we also need to exercise common sense and maximise our opsec. No need to go out boasting about how much Bitcoin we have. A fool and his BTC are soon parted. Don't be a fool.

That's the best way I can describe plausible deniability, while keeping my typing and word count to reasonable levels. I think I can compete with JJG on this one! Anyway, I hope it helps you, Karartma1, or anyone else out there.

Stay safe!

Edit: Corrected some typos.

Great post! Just want to add that it's not uncommon for kidnappers to kill their victims after they find out the passwords as they're afraid you'll be able to identify them and testify against them later.
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June 15, 2020, 08:32:00 AM

you where in this space as a coiner and now as a nocoiner... this is pity... you did’t deserve to end up coinless  Undecided

I am not a nocoiner though. Small coiner (or less coiner?) maybe.

You only told to sold all and maybe to buy back a very little something, so at this point its still no-coiner

When someone publicly said to have sold all... then its difficult to believe to have bought back at higher prices especially with someone that praised the DCA strategy on a daily basis ....

So to quote JJG, a link or it didn't happen  Tongue
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June 15, 2020, 08:32:59 AM


Alright, then please name me one Member of WO who did explicitly expect that you would sell the bottom.
If you can't, you indirectly prove the black swan criteria as true. (Something happening nobody expected).

Go on. I can play well  Grin

Maybe it was a black swan even only for me.

How did you (or any of you) get affected by my decision?

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June 15, 2020, 08:33:13 AM

Btw, where is that kylapoiss dude or something... always have liked that guy #nohomo
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June 15, 2020, 08:39:16 AM


Alright, then please name me one Member of WO who did explicitly expect that you would sell the bottom.
If you can't, you indirectly prove the black swan criteria as true. (Something happening nobody expected).

Go on. I can play well  Grin

Maybe it was a black swan even only for me.

How did you (or any of you) get affected by my decision?



That's a different question, but i stopped trusting that anybody here who is claiming to never-go-mindrust would not go mindrust at some point. It's about credibility and the message it sends out to the world. "See: Even the most hardest bitcoin believers abandon ship at some point"-type of narrative. This has consequences. You change a single parameter in a complex system, you watch many other parameters change as well afterwards.
This is a hefty warping of WO reality. Don't try to play it down.
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June 15, 2020, 08:44:08 AM


Alright, then please name me one Member of WO who did explicitly expect that you would sell the bottom.
If you can't, you indirectly prove the black swan criteria as true. (Something happening nobody expected).

Go on. I can play well  Grin

Maybe it was a black swan even only for me.

How did you (or any of you) get affected by my decision?



That's a different question, but i stopped trusting that anybody here who is claiming to never-go-mindrust would not go mindrust at some point. It's about credibility and the message it sends out to the world. "See: Even the most hardest bitcoin believers abandon ship at some point"-type of narrative. This has consequences. You change a single parameter in a complex system, you watch many other parameters change as well afterwards.
This is a hefty warping of WO reality. Don't try to play it down.

You are forgetting one thing,

 I always tried to warn people in my posts, that bitcoin can go down a lot (or collapse completely even though it is a small chance) as it can also go a lot in the opposite direction.

True, I was a super-maxi at some point but even when I was that, I was getting labeled as a "bear" by some WO'ers.  Cool

A super-maxipad dumped his coins... so what... people who hedl for 10 years dumped theirs. (mega-maxis) Thousands of coins. I don't see people complaining about that anywhere. (I did even though it was pointless)

I don't see you people saying "never go full 10-year-btc-holder"
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June 15, 2020, 08:44:35 AM

So when is someone doing a picture guess thing ??  Grin
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June 15, 2020, 08:47:10 AM


Alright, then please name me one Member of WO who did explicitly expect that you would sell the bottom.
If you can't, you indirectly prove the black swan criteria as true. (Something happening nobody expected).

Go on. I can play well  Grin

Maybe it was a black swan even only for me.

How did you (or any of you) get affected by my decision?



That's a different question, but i stopped trusting that anybody here who is claiming to never-go-mindrust would not go mindrust at some point. It's about credibility and the message it sends out to the world. "See: Even the most hardest bitcoin believers abandon ship at some point"-type of narrative. This has consequences. You change a single parameter in a complex system, you watch many other parameters change as well afterwards.
This is a hefty warping of WO reality. Don't try to play it down.

You are forgetting one thing,

 I always tried to warn people in my posts, that bitcoin can go down a lot (or collapse completely even though it is a small chance) as it can also go a lot in the opposite direction.

True, I was a super-maxi at some point but even when I was that, I was getting labeled as a "bear" by some WO'ers.  Cool

A super-maxipad dumped his coins... so what... people who hedl for 10 years dumped theirs. Thousands of coins. I don't see people complaining about that anywhere. (I did even though it was pointless)

I don't see you people saying "never go full 10-year-btc-holder"

Those guys who HODL for then years and sold 1000th of coins made their living and decisions for them selfs, probably all of them do HODL a % of their coins.... maybe not very much % but at least more then most will ever have

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June 15, 2020, 08:49:53 AM

Those guys who HODL for then years and sold 1000th of coins made their living and decisions for them selfs, probably all of them do HODL a % of their coins....

Probably, if and may... You don't know that.
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June 15, 2020, 08:58:58 AM

Those guys who HODL for then years and sold 1000th of coins made their living and decisions for them selfs, probably all of them do HODL a % of their coins....

Probably, if and may... You don't know that.

The not knowing goes both ways
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June 15, 2020, 09:02:05 AM

Those guys who HODL for then years and sold 1000th of coins made their living and decisions for them selfs, probably all of them do HODL a % of their coins....

Probably, if and may... You don't know that.

The not knowing goes both ways

They did dump thousands of coins though. That's a fact. You can prove it by looking at the charts.
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June 15, 2020, 09:06:41 AM

Those guys who HODL for then years and sold 1000th of coins made their living and decisions for them selfs, probably all of them do HODL a % of their coins....

Probably, if and may... You don't know that.

The not knowing goes both ways

They did dump thousands of coins though. That's a fact. You can prove it by looking at the charts.
The dump yes... but the % they kept it bought back... we don’t know.... the market is buy and sell ... so logically that there where 1000’s dumped
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June 15, 2020, 09:08:08 AM

The dump yes... but the % they kept it bought back... we don’t know.... the market is buy and sell ... so logically that there where 1000’s dumped

After 10 years bruh.

10 fookin years. Not a peep. Then thousands at once.
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June 15, 2020, 09:29:19 AM

The dump yes... but the % they kept it bought back... we don’t know.... the market is buy and sell ... so logically that there where 1000’s dumped

After 10 years bruh.

10 fookin years. Not a peep. Then thousands at once.

Aaaaand still 9K coins.... can’t younger see the wider public for corn..... and increasing
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June 15, 2020, 09:30:13 AM
Merited by bkbirge (1)

I wish people would wake up and see BTC for what it is.
A truly wonderful gift to the human race capable of solving a lot of financial turmoil and facilitating true wealth growth for individuals and nations alike.
Instead many who have onboarded are only looking to the short term gain of more filthy fiat of which there appears to be no end of.
When will we see the true light?
True HODLers can see.
Stay strong my WO brethren.
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June 15, 2020, 09:36:08 AM

In lockdown. Jobless during Covid-19.
Sold my all bitcoin for food, shelter.
Can't predict anything right now  Cry  Cry

Stay stronk brother stay stronk. The dark times will pass.


LoL youtube banned bcash's channel.
https://old.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/h8t9j7/bitcoincoms_appeal_letter_to_youtube_over_the/

That's good news.
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