Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[KFR]

Yes. Of all the alts, it seems that NXT actually offers something genuinely groundbreaking rather than tinkering around the edges of bitcoin.

Just what is offered, in your view?  The community seems relatively robust, but PoS is substantially less secure that PoW.  The layered products will emerge in any coin that has traction, so I'm not sure layered features are a big plus. Anonymity is huge, in my estimation.  Much bigger than the little features that derive from layered applications of the blockchain.  A coin is neither required nor suitable for most of those.  Parasitic protocols are not viable in the long term.   Merge-mining fees is the correct way to use blockchains as infrastructure for layered apps, not cramming stuff into the core coin, but other ways of funding a distributed transaction db may be more efficient.

Anonymity on the other hand is part of the core, necessarily.  Part of the core implementation, and part of the core value proposition.  For that reason, of the alts, I like MRO.  BCN would have been interesting, but suffered from pre-mine.  MRO forks BCN and fixes that.  The upside is the best anonymity in a working coin, CPU-mined.  The downside is extreme immaturity of the software, no market yet:  It's roughly 2 weeks old.

FWIW I concur.  I gave up on NXT quite a while back and started cpu mining MRO a few days ago.  Immature is right; but the potential...

[gizmoh]

A great squeeze is coming: Finex $17.2 million longs beware. 

Sorry for the dumb question, but I"m not familiar with margin trading. Are you saying that the long positions will be squeezed (price crash), or that the short positions will be squeezed (price spike)?

Longs might get squeezed as its 'unusually' high (maximum was $20.9 m in feb)

[Cassius]

Yes. Of all the alts, it seems that NXT actually offers something genuinely groundbreaking rather than tinkering around the edges of bitcoin.

Just what is offered, in your view?  The community seems relatively robust, but PoS is substantially less secure that PoW.  The layered products will emerge in any coin that has traction, so I'm not sure layered features are a big plus. Anonymity is huge, in my estimation.  Much bigger than the little features that derive from layered applications of the blockchain.  A coin is neither required nor suitable for most of those.  Parasitic protocols are not viable in the long term.   Merge-mining fees is the correct way to use blockchains as infrastructure for layered apps, not cramming stuff into the core coin, but other ways of funding a distributed transaction db may be more efficient.

Anonymity on the other hand is part of the core, necessarily.  Part of the core implementation, and part of the core value proposition.  For that reason, of the alts, I like MRO.  BCN would have been interesting, but suffered from pre-mine.  MRO forks BCN and fixes that.  The upside is the best anonymity in a working coin, CPU-mined.  The downside is extreme immaturity of the software, no market yet:  It's roughly 2 weeks old.

FWIW I concur.  I gave up on NXT quite a while back and started cpu mining MRO a few days ago.  Immature is right; but the potential...

For the anonymity alone?

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[RUEHL]

Isn't it ironic that the libertarian bitcoiners, champions of laissez-faire capitalism, are betting all their life savings on the hope that the Satoshi Bitcoin will be one day the only cryptocurrency in the market, so that they can charge monopoly prices for it?  

we want to prevent aggression theft, and fraud.  

who said anything about not wanting to get rich?  

[KFR]

Yes. Of all the alts, it seems that NXT actually offers something genuinely groundbreaking rather than tinkering around the edges of bitcoin.

Just what is offered, in your view?  The community seems relatively robust, but PoS is substantially less secure that PoW.  The layered products will emerge in any coin that has traction, so I'm not sure layered features are a big plus. Anonymity is huge, in my estimation.  Much bigger than the little features that derive from layered applications of the blockchain.  A coin is neither required nor suitable for most of those.  Parasitic protocols are not viable in the long term.   Merge-mining fees is the correct way to use blockchains as infrastructure for layered apps, not cramming stuff into the core coin, but other ways of funding a distributed transaction db may be more efficient.

Anonymity on the other hand is part of the core, necessarily.  Part of the core implementation, and part of the core value proposition.  For that reason, of the alts, I like MRO.  BCN would have been interesting, but suffered from pre-mine.  MRO forks BCN and fixes that.  The upside is the best anonymity in a working coin, CPU-mined.  The downside is extreme immaturity of the software, no market yet:  It's roughly 2 weeks old.

FWIW I concur.  I gave up on NXT quite a while back and started cpu mining MRO a few days ago.  Immature is right; but the potential...

For the anonymity alone?

I think I feel more or less the same way Aminorex does.  If it is to be considered a serious goal for a coin then anonymity needs to be baked into the protocol design.  Layered features can be built on top of the core - I've had some experience with that side of development myself and am comfortable with the future that portends.  As for MRO specifically, I also like the GPU/ASIC resistance of the PoW scheme.  

Note that I'm not insisting anonymity is an essential feature for every coin - I just think it's a valid and desirable USP, which will inevitably drive growth and uptake of the coin that gets it right.  Personally, I'm quite happy with the pseudo-anonymity provided by conventional cryptocoin architectures.

I danced with NXT.  But the chemistry was all wrong.

[KFR]

Isn't it ironic that the libertarian bitcoiners, champions of laissez-faire capitalism, are betting all their life savings on the hope that the Satoshi Bitcoin will be one day the only cryptocurrency in the market, so that they can charge monopoly prices for it? 

Make sweeping generalisations, much?

I find this much more ironic:

Ridiculous. The only reason why most bitcoin crimes go unpunished and victims get no reparation is that bitcoin was appropriated by rabid "libertarians" who hate governments, law, regulations, and police.

The logical consequence of assuming that those things are evil is that "there are no criminals nor victims, only smart people and stupid people".

The invariable response of the "bitcoin community" to each new bitcoin scam or heist is "stupid victims, they should have blah blah blah."

Good to see you airing those "academic" prejudices a little more openly again, prof.  Have the high priests of the global Bitcoin conspiracy been getting to you again?

The reason that some crimes involving Bitcoin have gone unpunished is because governments and regulators are slow to catch on to new technology.  Now, what's the reason for the lack of prosecutions with regard to massive fiat scandals?  Oh yes, the institutions are "too big to fail" and the individuals involved apparently can't themselves be held accountable either.  So that's fair.

Bitcoin could be your saviour but you're so terrified of some of its libertarian fans somehow taking complete control of this massive open-to-all consensus-based network that you'd rather dedicate your time to saving the world from those dangerous imaginary cultists in the most bizarre and fruitless way possible - trolling this thread.

If you want to try and change Bitcoin's direction, stop pushing back and start looking forward.  

I know it's much easier for you to tar us all with the same brush.  But life's not supposed to be so easy.

[Cassius]

Yes. Of all the alts, it seems that NXT actually offers something genuinely groundbreaking rather than tinkering around the edges of bitcoin.

Just what is offered, in your view?  The community seems relatively robust, but PoS is substantially less secure that PoW.  The layered products will emerge in any coin that has traction, so I'm not sure layered features are a big plus. Anonymity is huge, in my estimation.  Much bigger than the little features that derive from layered applications of the blockchain.  A coin is neither required nor suitable for most of those.  Parasitic protocols are not viable in the long term.   Merge-mining fees is the correct way to use blockchains as infrastructure for layered apps, not cramming stuff into the core coin, but other ways of funding a distributed transaction db may be more efficient.

Anonymity on the other hand is part of the core, necessarily.  Part of the core implementation, and part of the core value proposition.  For that reason, of the alts, I like MRO.  BCN would have been interesting, but suffered from pre-mine.  MRO forks BCN and fixes that.  The upside is the best anonymity in a working coin, CPU-mined.  The downside is extreme immaturity of the software, no market yet:  It's roughly 2 weeks old.

FWIW I concur.  I gave up on NXT quite a while back and started cpu mining MRO a few days ago.  Immature is right; but the potential...

For the anonymity alone?

I think I feel more or less the same way Aminorex does.  If it is to be considered a serious goal for a coin then anonymity needs to be baked into the protocol design.  Layered features can be built on top of the core - I've had some experience with that side of development myself and am comfortable with the future that portends.  As for MRO specifically, I also like the GPU/ASIC resistance of the PoW scheme.  

Note that I'm not insisting anonymity is an essential feature for every coin - I just think it's a valid and desirable USP, which will inevitably drive growth and uptake of the coin that gets it right.  Personally, I'm quite happy with the pseudo-anonymity provided by conventional cryptocoin architectures.

I danced with NXT.  But the chemistry was all wrong.

I figure there's room for lots of altcoins in the early stages - the ones that offer something worthwhile should survive. Most as far as I can tell don't offer much new at all, or one single change/improvement. A few years down the line I guess there might be only a handful that are used in any great measure. I assume and hope bitcoin will be one of these; Litecoin I guess will survive, as will Dogecoin (for different reasons). NXT I think has great potential, though how that pans out remains to be seen. I don't know enough about many of the others to make a judgement but I doubt there will be many others.
Out of interest, what didn't you like about NXT?

[KFR]

Out of interest, what didn't you like about NXT?

The short answer is distribution and emission but the longer answer is regrettably outside the scope of my forum trolling time.

[cbeast]

Is this causing the rally?
http://bitcoin.mit.edu/announcing-the-mit-bitcoin-project/

They will all hodl. They need a smarter distribution system such as discounting books bought with Bitcoin or even tuition. There would still need to be a cap per student.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[spooderman]

This is gonna be such a boring year if this carries on.

[ElectricMucus]

Isn't it ironic that the libertarian bitcoiners, champions of laissez-faire capitalism, are betting all their life savings on the hope that the Satoshi Bitcoin will be one day the only cryptocurrency in the market, so that they can charge monopoly prices for it? 

That's only ironic if you believe in Libertarianism yourself.

[sonofliberty]

Isn't it ironic that the libertarian bitcoiners, champions of laissez-faire capitalism, are betting all their life savings on the hope that the Satoshi Bitcoin will be one day the only cryptocurrency in the market, so that they can charge monopoly prices for it? 

That's only ironic if you believe in Libertarianism yourself.

Well, Bitcoin will never be the only cryptocurrency in the market again. But maybe the only one being actually used on a large scale, like TCP/IP.

[MoreFun]

WTF is this at stamp.

[chromosoma]

WTF is this at stamp.

The rumors might be true, bitstamp is closing its business due to some illegal activity of its users.

[rpietila]

WTF is this at stamp.

I would say - an attempt to sell a lot of coins quickly, and realize the best possible price for them.

[MoreFun]

WTF is this at stamp.

I would say - an attempt to sell a lot of coins quickly, and realize the best possible price for them.

1. 800 BTC market sell
2. 500 BTC market buy
3. 700 BTC market sell
4. 500 BTC market buy

[hazek]

WTF is this at stamp.

The rumors might be true, bitstamp is closing its business due to some illegal activity of its users.

 

[ElectricMucus]

Isn't it ironic that the libertarian bitcoiners, champions of laissez-faire capitalism, are betting all their life savings on the hope that the Satoshi Bitcoin will be one day the only cryptocurrency in the market, so that they can charge monopoly prices for it?  

That's only ironic if you believe in Libertarianism yourself.

Well, Bitcoin will never be the only cryptocurrency in the market again. But maybe the only one being actually used on a large scale, like TCP/IP.

You have no idea what we are talking about don't you?