Off-Topic

[btceic]

ask yourself how many buyers are "working with BkkCoins" as opposed to waiting for the end result and simply waiting to pay the royalty.  Did you pay a company like Terrahash to develop the boards or to ship you a system?

TH has publicly stated on the klondike developer thread that he would contribute in a timely manner any relevant/useful development information back to BKK. He has not done so as publicly stated by BKK. IMO, that means he either doesn't have any new information (hasn't made substantial progress on the development) OR he is withholding information (in which case he is breaking his contract with BKK). Neither one are good signs, IMO.

Importance 1-10     about a 1

In this case I guess importance is relative to the observer. I think taken together the items above (and others I didn't post) determine the likelihood that the TH or SB will ship products in a timely manner which greatly effects ROI. If you read the SB and TH threads you'll see just how differently they are running things. You can think that won't effect when they'll ship, but I think it shows a huge difference in professionalism and competence which will most definitely impact when/if they ship.

Please go to SB thread then and stay there.

They gave a shipping date, made it VERY clear, if you don't think they will make that date, then request a refund and go elsewhere. Otherwise spreading your FUD. If your intent is to spread FUD then continue, just put a disclaimer on your posts

the problem is we are requesting refunds and... wait for it..... getting denied

[dmcdad]

The likelihood of Steamboat and Terrahash shipping units depends on 2 factors:

Avalon chips showing up, and
BKKCoins producing a board to use them.

Therein lies the fundamental difference between our perspectives I guess. I'd add to that list an entire host of other factors:

• Final board production works (heat sink/cooling design, correct components used, etc.)
• Has the processes in place to get the assembly completed and tested (much more complicated then one might think). This one is key. You seem to think that all TH has to do is get some files from BKK to an assembler and then magically boards will be spit out the other end. It just isn't that simple.
• Has the chips to populate the boards (I've seem some evidence that TH has ordered 10K chips, but don't see evidence for 20K chips they claim to have ordered yet -- providing a link to the block-chain transaction for the orders honestly isn't that difficult).
• Not a scam (and for the record, I don't think TH is a scam at this point but I think we'll know soon enough)

[MinermanNC]

Thats why I have been giving thought to forming a Co-op for anyone interested. I live close to Research Triangle Park, plenty of board developers and surface mount folks here (there not all just in silcon valley)......just need the moola, boards and open source codes, and chippies,,,and we have asics,,,lol but seriously, it could be done. keep ya posted if things go badly here...which I hope they don't

[Syke]

https://terrahash.com/faq/

Q. Do you issue refunds?

A. (Updated) All orders are final. However, you can request a refund before your order is shipped. We will process each refund request on a case-by-case basis.

Looks like their learned from the masters (BFL). Offer refunds in order to land a bunch of pre-orders, and then start refusing refunds without warning. Deceptive and nearly worthy of a scam label.

[oaxaca]

I'd add to that list an entire host of other factors:

• Final board production works (heat sink/cooling design, correct components used, etc.)

Correct components?  I don't think that Terrahash is going to walk into Frys with a shopping list and ask if they have something close to this capacitor or similar to that resistor.  There is a mountain of information available on BKKCoins thread.

• Has the processes in place to get the assembly completed and tested (much more complicated then one might think). This one is key. You seem to think that all TH has to do is get some files from BKK to an assembler and then magically boards will be spit out the other end. It just isn't that simple.

Terrahash employee 1:  "Hey, I got the files downloaded.  Where do we get them assembled?"
Terrahash employee 2:  "Gee, I don't know.  I never thought about that."

doubtful.

• Has the chips to populate the boards (I've seem some evidence that TH has ordered 10K chips, but don't see evidence for 20K chips they claim to have ordered yet -- providing a link to the block-chain transaction for the orders honestly isn't that difficult).

Terrahash employee 1:  "Hey, the boards just got delivered.  Where are the chips?"
Terrahash employee 2:  "Gee, I don't know.  I never thought about that."

doubtful.

• Not a scam (and for the record, I don't think TH is a scam at this point but I think we'll know soon enough)

Then why post if you're willing to "know soon enough"?  Simply because you enjoy typing the word "scam"?

[btceic]

https://terrahash.com/faq/

Q. Do you issue refunds?

A. (Updated) All orders are final. However, you can request a refund before your order is shipped. We will process each refund request on a case-by-case basis.

Looks like their learned from the masters (BFL). Offer refunds in order to land a bunch of pre-orders, and then start refusing refunds without warning. Deceptive and nearly worthy of a scam label.

Amazing, I didn't know that they changed the refund policy, what are the rules on modifying a contract once it has been agreed upon?

ScreenCap:
http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=terrahash.com+faq+refund&d=4689181941699424&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=T_8k06RNEoJUZOKig5KN9HykiIP1diRj

[bystander]

Thanks for the link btceic!

[massnerder]

Interesting that the refund section of the FAQ has been changed and they appear to be holding orders made under the old standard to the new standard.  Looks like I will have no choice, at least on my BTC order, but to wait and hope they deliver on time.

btceic, please keep us informed on the progress of your adventure with paypal  

[btceic]

Interesting that the refund section of the FAQ has been changed and they appear to be holding orders made under the old standard to the new standard.  Looks like I will have no choice, at least on my BTC order, but to wait and hope they deliver on time.

btceic, please keep us informed on the progress of your adventure with paypal  

Will do, I hope the best for everybody including terrahash, we need mulitple asic vendors in this race.

P.S. I sent that screenshot and that cache link to paypal in regards to my paypal disputes. IANAL but to me they changed this after the fact and did not notify me nor did they give me a chance to decline it prior to them changing it, is this not a breach of contract and therefore nullifies it?

[btceic]

Please vote on the following:

http://support.terrahash.com/forums/212103-general/suggestions/4163564-why-have-you-changed-your-refund-policy-

Now that they have refused me a refund I am going to be the biggest PIA to them.

[notlist3d]

No video today so far.   Yet had time to change FAQ on refunds.  Don't let your paypal protection run out!

[btceic]

I found this, thought it might be relevant to the discussion.


http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus02-business-guide-mail-and-telephone-order-merchandise-rule

When You Must Cancel an Order

You must cancel an order and provide a prompt refund when:

    the customer exercises any option to cancel before you ship the merchandise;
    the customer does not respond to your first notice of a definite revised shipment date of 30 days or less and you have not shipped the merchandise or received the customer’s consent to a further delay by the definite revised shipment date;
    the customer does not respond to your notice of a definite revised shipment date of more than 30 days (or your notice that you are unable to provide a definite revised shipment date) and you have not shipped the merchandise within 30 days of the original shipment date;
    the customer consents to a definite delay and you have not shipped or obtained the customer’s consent to any additional delay by the shipment time the customer consented to;
    you have not shipped or provided the required delay or renewed option notices on time; or
    you determine that you will never be able to ship the merchandise.

[oaxaca]

Now that they have refused me a refund I am going to be the biggest PIA to them.

Sorry, but I just couldn't resist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqwuZQiAwhs

[MinermanNC]

Now that they have refused me a refund I am going to be the biggest PIA to them.

Sorry, but I just couldn't resist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqwuZQiAwhs

Cute.... kept waitng for the Eddie Van Halen lead break,,,, oh well lol
Just in case....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVJcJjbTAtY

[atomicchaos]

Terrahash has already stated that refunds would be granted, yet they are fight all the Paypal claims. They have got to be the most non-saavy business people around. I'm sure they're very technical, but holy cow.

My claim hasn't went anywhere yet either, as expected. Love the pro-terrahashers that are simply hoping their support will make Terrahash throw them a cookie.

So this shows yet another example of a broken promise. Everyone go back and read the cloudhashing article, I'm starting to wonder if it was justified after all. I bashed them as I thought what they did to TH was lame, but some points in the article are very similar to what we are now experiencing. I'm sure in the end, it will come to light that they are just horrible at running a business and dealing with customers. How fortunate to be in an area with such High demand.

Reminds me to donate to the frequent posters running other projects I am a part of, as so many of them aren't doing this as a primary business and yet find time to provide updates.

[atomicchaos]

I just read about their change to a refund policy post-purchases....

Terrahash, you keep playing with people and changing things like refund policies on your website, and you'll be talking to a few lawyers soon.

[atomicchaos]

The list provided in the link is incorrect. For instance, the first order number we have is 434. We don't have any orders numbers 430 and 431.

We will be sending an email tomorrow or day after to let everyone know when they can expect their orders to be shipped. You can then decide to keep the order or ask for a refund.

Cache saved on this message, so if they try and change this one too we have it.

[btceic]

I wish they were honoring refunds so we can get you guys out of this thread

What good reasons could you possibly have to want to continue to do business with this company?

[MinermanNC]

Terrahash has already stated that refunds would be granted, yet they are fight all the Paypal claims. They have got to be the most non-saavy business people around. I'm sure they're very technical, but holy cow.

My claim hasn't went anywhere yet either, as expected. Love the pro-terrahashers that are simply hoping their support will make Terrahash throw them a cookie.

So this shows yet another example of a broken promise. Everyone go back and read the cloudhashing article, I'm starting to wonder if it was justified after all. I bashed them as I thought what they did to TH was lame, but some points in the article are very similar to what we are now experiencing. I'm sure in the end, it will come to light that they are just horrible at running a business and dealing with customers. How fortunate to be in an area with such High demand.

Reminds me to donate to the frequent posters running other projects I am a part of, as so many of them aren't doing this as a primary business and yet find time to provide updates.

I wish they were honoring refunds so we can get you guys out of this thread

Well start a new thread the for all you azz kiss'n brown nosers who think their going to score with Terrahash,,,,the rest of serious experienced business minded people will stay here and bitch all we want  

Edit: In other words, leave if you don't like it!

[MinermanNC]

BTW now I'm really upset, my butter on my popcorn got cold waiting for the video to start?