Off-Topic

[bebfoo]

TH does not seem to be answering requests for refunds.

TH secretly snuck in a "no-refunds" policy at the last moment before opening up pre-orders.

You have a valid point, but knowing everything you know and how the BTC business works,
and the fact that none of these companies are venture funded or have a million dollars to fall back on,
do you think its unreasonable to say that they are not going to do refunds?

if you put it in the context of your neighborhood plumber and you tell them I want you to re-model my kitchen,
and you pay them upfront and they go out and get you custom marble, cabinets, stove, refrigerator and they layout the money and then you come along a week or month before they are to deliver and say "I want a refund"

What do you expect to get back from them after they have spent 80% of your money?

And the excuse of "Well they can just sell my order to someone else" is not valid, because it's your order, you go sell it. They have already invested your money in office space, boards, components, heatsinks etc.

Go away with your logic! That is frowned upon here!

+1

hahaha

[1714777846]

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1714777846

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1714777846

[1714777846]

1714777846

[joeventura]

TH does not seem to be answering requests for refunds.

TH secretly snuck in a "no-refunds" policy at the last moment before opening up pre-orders.

You have a valid point, but knowing everything you know and how the BTC business works,
and the fact that none of these companies are venture funded or have a million dollars to fall back on,
do you think its unreasonable to say that they are not going to do refunds?

if you put it in the context of your neighborhood plumber and you tell them I want you to re-model my kitchen,
and you pay them upfront and they go out and get you custom marble, cabinets, stove, refrigerator and they layout the money and then you come along a week or month before they are to deliver and say "I want a refund"

What do you expect to get back from them after they have spent 80% of your money?

And the excuse of "Well they can just sell my order to someone else" is not valid, because it's your order, you go sell it. They have already invested your money in office space, boards, components, heatsinks etc.

Go away with your logic! That is frowned upon here!

Sorry! 

Let's try this......

What makes you think she is a witch???

[flowdab]

TH does not seem to be answering requests for refunds.

TH secretly snuck in a "no-refunds" policy at the last moment before opening up pre-orders.

You have a valid point, but knowing everything you know and how the BTC business works,
and the fact that none of these companies are venture funded or have a million dollars to fall back on,
do you think its unreasonable to say that they are not going to do refunds?

if you put it in the context of your neighborhood plumber and you tell them I want you to re-model my kitchen,
and you pay them upfront and they go out and get you custom marble, cabinets, stove, refrigerator and they layout the money and then you come along a week or month before they are to deliver and say "I want a refund"

What do you expect to get back from them after they have spent 80% of your money?

And the excuse of "Well they can just sell my order to someone else" is not valid, because it's your order, you go sell it. They have already invested your money in office space, boards, components, heatsinks etc.

Go away with your logic! That is frowned upon here!

+1

hahaha

That is a completely false analogy. If you order someone to build you a custom piece of furniture and you pay a hefty sum up-front with the expectation that they will be open and honest with their dealings as well as to respond to inquiries regarding your goods then it is perfectly acceptable to attempt to cancel the transaction if they do not do those things.

Further, your analogy fails in that it describes a custom made addition to your personal property. These are bitcoin miners that Terrahash can re-sell. They lose nothing by giving a refund to those customers who want them. Especially those customers who were never made aware that "no refunds" was going to be the operable method of doing business. I for one would have never purchased anything from them had I known that.

[bluefin]

It is not their responsibility to try to "resell" the item that is custom ordered and built for you.

Just like that same furniture maker shouldn't have to try to resell the custom work they did for you if you agreed to the terms knowing it could take a little longer to build than initially thought.

However none of these analogies really matter because in this case it is Customer Greed,

They see opportunity elsewhere and will try to screw anyone in their path to try to get ASIC mining equipment.

Don't give me this Holier-than-thou act either. I'm not buying it, anyone at this point that wants a refund just wants to spend their money on a different ship that they think will sail sooner.

I would disagree with you that these are custom items.

cus·tom /ˈkəstəm/

Adjective
Made or done to order for a particular customer: "a custom guitar".

These are neither made to order nor for a particular customer.

And it is not our responsibility to make sure that they make a profit or continue to operate.

I would also like to add that regardless of whether terrahash wants to or not, they are obligated by law to issue timely and full refunds.

[Flying Hellfish]

It is not their responsibility to try to "resell" the item that is custom ordered and built for you.

Just like that same furniture maker shouldn't have to try to resell the custom work they did for you if you agreed to the terms knowing it could take a little longer to build than initially thought.

However none of these analogies really matter because in this case it is Customer Greed,

They see opportunity elsewhere and will try to screw anyone in their path to try to get ASIC mining equipment.

Don't give me this Holier-than-thou act either. I'm not buying it, anyone at this point that wants a refund just wants to spend their money on a different ship that they think will sail sooner.

I would disagree with you that these are custom items.

cus·tom /ˈkəstəm/

Adjective
Made or done to order for a particular customer: "a custom guitar".

These are neither made to order nor for a particular customer.

And it is not our responsibility to make sure that they make a profit or continue to operate.

I would also like to add that regardless of whether terrahash wants to or not, they are obligated by law to issue timely and full refunds.

ASIC manufacture's mantra:  Don't let a silly thing like the law get in the way of my profits.

[frankenmint]

It is not their responsibility to try to "resell" the item that is custom ordered and built for you.

Just like that same furniture maker shouldn't have to try to resell the custom work they did for you if you agreed to the terms knowing it could take a little longer to build than initially thought.

However none of these analogies really matter because in this case it is Customer Greed,

They see opportunity elsewhere and will try to screw anyone in their path to try to get ASIC mining equipment.

Don't give me this Holier-than-thou act either. I'm not buying it, anyone at this point that wants a refund just wants to spend their money on a different ship that they think will sail sooner.

I would disagree with you that these are custom items.

cus·tom /ˈkəstəm/

Adjective
Made or done to order for a particular customer: "a custom guitar".

These are neither made to order nor for a particular customer.

And it is not our responsibility to make sure that they make a profit or continue to operate.

I would also like to add that regardless of whether terrahash wants to or not, they are obligated by law to issue timely and full refunds.

ASIC manufacture's mantra:  Don't let a silly thing like the law get in the way of my profits.

such a wise simpson's referencer

[zurg]

Strangely enough I work for a custom furniture manufacturer. 11 years now.  Lol
If we did business like some of these ASIC manufacturers we wouldn't have been in business for last 50+ years.

[bluefin]

Strangely enough I work for a custom furniture manufacturer. 11 years now.  Lol
If we did business like some of these ASIC manufacturers we wouldn't have been in business for last 50+ years.

Can you chime in on refunds for custom furniture?

[Flying Hellfish]

Strangely enough I work for a custom furniture manufacturer. 11 years now.  Lol
If we did business like some of these ASIC manufacturers we wouldn't have been in business for last 50+ years.

Most companies here in Deadwood won't be around in 50 weeks let alone 50 months or 50 years.  

[zurg]

Strangely enough I work for a custom furniture manufacturer. 11 years now.  Lol
If we did business like some of these ASIC manufacturers we wouldn't have been in business for last 50+ years.

Can you chime in on refunds for custom furniture?

Lol, sure. Might take a few. On the phone and 2yo on the lap.

But major differences is that we get paid when customer gets furniture.
As far as custom stuff then nearly every piece is specifically designed for that specific  order.
Returns depends WHO screwed up the order. If customer gives wrong measurement then it's on who did it for them.
Any faults beyond that is our problem.
So with as many variants of product TH has we wouldn't consider it custom as much.
Our custom parts list is in thousands. So in other words we could sell 1 desk with such custom parts that we will not see ever again.
Our returns are very rare. Most of them are 1 or 2 prices,  so out of $20+mil/yr sales it's nothing. We usually just take fault with anything as retaining a happy customer will always benefit us later.

This was a quick cell phone entry with now 2 kids chasing me.

[MinermanNC]

Strangely enough I work for a custom furniture manufacturer. 11 years now.  Lol
If we did business like some of these ASIC manufacturers we wouldn't have been in business for last 50+ years.

Can you chime in on refunds for custom furniture?

Lol, sure. Might take a few. On the phone and 2yo on the lap.

But major differences is that we get paid when customer gets furniture.
As far as custom stuff then nearly every piece is specifically designed for that specific  order.
Returns depends WHO screwed up the order. If customer gives wrong measurement then it's on who did it for them.
Any faults beyond that is our problem.
So with as many variants of product TH has we wouldn't consider it custom as much.
Our custom parts list is in thousands. So in other words we could sell 1 desk with such custom parts that we will not see ever again.
Our returns are very rare. Most of them are 1 or 2 prices,  so out of $20+mil/yr sales it's nothing. We usually just take fault with anything as retaining a happy customer will always benefit us later.

This was a quick cell phone entry with now 2 kids chasing me.

Wow great synopsis considering your circumstances! lol,,kids etc...but ya unfortunately we are dealing with a new asic manufacture,,its still the wild west days of bitcoin,,,we have seen how other startups have done,,,most have fallen short somewhere along the way... in what they stated vs what was delivered and when....so, we all knew to some extent there was a lot of "if-ands"-and butts",,as in any pre order situation...do I like were things stand right now? heck no! but it is, what it is now, and here we all are,,TH included....at the mercy of 1 supplier, and if this wasn't a start up for TH, i would be a lot less forgiving,,,,say they had been in business for year and things were already up and running when we ordered,,,but they weren't. So Guess we have to just like or lump it" lol,,, no one made us want to be miners,,,so this is part of that effort,,,and there really is no good alternitives..unless you by a machine in the bid world,,,highly risky and you always will pay way to much! so i say we sit tight and hope the chips hurry up and get in to TH,  

[MinermanNC]

Damn,,,BTC Guild hash rate over 92,600 everyone else up too...Ouch!

EDIT: Its all those little freak'n 3.33 block eruptors they have been peddling  good move on their part....they makin money hand over fist"

[Vigil]

Once the experienced hardware developers jump on board all these small fries will disappear.

[kkooks]

lets just redirect our brain powers in pushing terrahash for answers...

Where are these overdue promised items:
1. Pictures of the DX Mini
2. Picture of a completed Klondike 16 w/ heat sink
3. Hashing rate reaching promised rate (not prototype.. i'd expect terrahash to have this down by now hopefully)
4. Invoice/POs of all components
5. Project timing for each step (project management style)

We will all rest better and be more willing to wait when we see those listed.

Otherwise, we feel like we need a refund. Simply because you've over promised and under delivered so far.
Time to rectify the Public Relations trajectory if you want repeat customers.

Terrahash, You dont have a product problem (crossing my fingers), you have a relationship problem with your customers.

[joeventura]

lets just redirect our brain powers in pushing terrahash for answers...

Where are these overdue promised items:
1. Pictures of the DX Mini
2. Picture of a completed Klondike 16 w/ heat sink
3. Hashing rate reaching promised rate (not prototype.. i'd expect terrahash to have this down by now hopefully)
4. Invoice/POs of all components
5. Project timing for each step (project management style)

We will all rest better and be more willing to wait when we see those listed.

Otherwise, we feel like we need a refund. Simply because you've over promised and under delivered so far.
Time to rectify the Public Relations trajectory if you want repeat customers.

Terrahash, You dont have a product problem (crossing my fingers), you have a relationship problem with your customers.

No, I don't need any of that data.

I need to know when the chips arrive. Thats it.

[knightlife999]

lets just redirect our brain powers in pushing terrahash for answers...

Where are these overdue promised items:
1. Pictures of the DX Mini
2. Picture of a completed Klondike 16 w/ heat sink
3. Hashing rate reaching promised rate (not prototype.. i'd expect terrahash to have this down by now hopefully)
4. Invoice/POs of all components
5. Project timing for each step (project management style)

We will all rest better and be more willing to wait when we see those listed.

Otherwise, we feel like we need a refund. Simply because you've over promised and under delivered so far.
Time to rectify the Public Relations trajectory if you want repeat customers.

Terrahash, You dont have a product problem (crossing my fingers), you have a relationship problem with your customers.

We're back to this again? It's only been a few weeks and we're back to demanding proof of things??
We have seen their chip orders, seen them basically get endorsed by BKKcoins, seen them get their board hashing, seen their offices, and seen them take a regular part in the forum. Now you are saying you need to see POs for parts, finished boards (though the chips aren't here yet), and their project management plan? I think Terrahash has provided everything we need to see to know that they are legitimate. Do you need to see their credit card statements and home utility bills too? I'm with Joe on this, we just need to know when the chips arrive. That is all that matters. That is not something TH can control. Everyone is waiting for Yifu to send the chips. I would recommend reading this entire thread and spare us the fear mongering. This is the same garbage we see on other threads.... we need to see proof of.... you name it.

When I managed forex accounts I always told my clients "do not invest your rent". Don't invest money you can't afford to lose. But, I'll take it one step further, don't invest if you don't have the stomach for it. We all bought pre-orders, which the delivery of said pre-orders had multiple variables. Some of the variables are controlled by our seller, in this case TH. I think they have been working to hold up their end of things. The most important factor, chips, are not in their control. I don't think showing us a PO for pcbs and heatsinks is going to change our circumstances. You'll just demand to see something else next week. I personally verified that TH is legitimate and has the stated number of chips on order. They have contributed to BKK's work on the K16, which can be verified in his thread. I live a little over an hour from TH and have visited them twice. I do not see a need to go there now and check for boxes of heatsinks and pcbs. Even if I did, I'm sure some people would complain about something else and demand proof thereof. Read other threads and you'll see that everyone is upset about Avalon not sending the chips on time. Someone mentioned that only a small group of us are holding our orders? I'm sure the majority of people who ordered are holding their orders. Unless you spend 5-10x the original cost of a board or miner on ebay, you are waiting. Doesn't really matter who you buy from at this point. You could buy 100 asicminer usbs...

I want to note that TH told me that when they bought the 2 additional early May pre-orders (from an individual in the bay area) they did so at a premium. They wanted to make sure that there would be enough chips for all of us to be in the "first batch". I think they have done a lot to try to accommodate us and make sure that we all get what we paid for in a timely manner. Their money is tied up in paying for all of the parts that will complete our boards.

In some ways, I wish they would refund people asking for it, so we could buy your extra boards and be done with your complaining in this thread. nuff said.

[krayzie32]

lets just redirect our brain powers in pushing terrahash for answers...

Where are these overdue promised items:
1. Pictures of the DX Mini
2. Picture of a completed Klondike 16 w/ heat sink
3. Hashing rate reaching promised rate (not prototype.. i'd expect terrahash to have this down by now hopefully)
4. Invoice/POs of all components
5. Project timing for each step (project management style)

We will all rest better and be more willing to wait when we see those listed.

Otherwise, we feel like we need a refund. Simply because you've over promised and under delivered so far.
Time to rectify the Public Relations trajectory if you want repeat customers.

Terrahash, You dont have a product problem (crossing my fingers), you have a relationship problem with your customers.

I love how people just love KNCminer yet they have showed maybe 10% of what TH has showed.  We need chips and for that we need Avalon to get their shit together and follow their own timetables which will never happen since he already has our money and knows that he has the market by the balls.

[zurg]

Yep, just waiting any info on chips here.
TH has done it's job so far.., slowly and with a lack of communication to us, but nonetheless at this point they are at Avalon's mercy just as we are.

[Flying Hellfish]

Yep, just waiting any info on chips here.
TH has done it's job so far.., slowly and with a lack of communication to us, but nonetheless at this point they are at Avalon's mercy just as we are.

Except the little tiny thing of breaking Federal Trade Commissions regulations, IF they are refusing refunds before a product has shipped.

[MinermanNC]

lets just redirect our brain powers in pushing terrahash for answers...

Where are these overdue promised items:
1. Pictures of the DX Mini
2. Picture of a completed Klondike 16 w/ heat sink
3. Hashing rate reaching promised rate (not prototype.. i'd expect terrahash to have this down by now hopefully)
4. Invoice/POs of all components
5. Project timing for each step (project management style)

We will all rest better and be more willing to wait when we see those listed.

Otherwise, we feel like we need a refund. Simply because you've over promised and under delivered so far.
Time to rectify the Public Relations trajectory if you want repeat customers.

Terrahash, You dont have a product problem (crossing my fingers), you have a relationship problem with your customers.

LOL, we are not dealing with Microsoft or Apple here..... Its Terrahash,,,,,Come on chips!