Off-Topic

[atomicchaos]

And for the record, you'll note that I didn't say that you shouldn't get a refund. I just said that you should go ahead and get your refund. Just don't try to sway everyone else to join you. I am very displeased with the delay, but I know it's not Th's fault. People can say that they should have had every part in stock because the chips could have arrived early. They are in silicon valley and all of those parts are within a day of arrival when ordered.

We have been screwed over by Bitsyncom. The negative crew acknowledges that, but then continues their tirades against TH for issues that are in the past, have no bearing on chips, or are deficits that may or may not truly exist. I know you guys would like everyone to join your bandwagon and mass refund. That is ridiculous, and we could all end up losing all or part of our money. So, aside from that, what do all of the negative crew recommend that we do?

Let's hear some constructive ideas. Not whining here on the thread, calling the FTC, or mass refunds. We've all heard those ideas. What constructive ideas do any of you have to get us our boards?

Here is my idea: the people who are wigging out here every day should put in for refunds. I'm sure there are more people that are resigned to waiting for their products than are wanting refunds. Then you can be happy with getting your money back and you can pay Bitfury of KNC for their miners. If they run behind, you can hound them on their threads.

I just don't see any point in screaming from the hilltops every day on this thread when all you have to do is put in for a refund. If you payed with BTC or wire transfer, I am sorry. The daily nitpicking of minutiae is truly ridiculous. I've been to TH/s office twice, interviewed them, shown proof of their orders. Others have verified the components stacked in TH/s office waiting for the chips to arrive.

We all are feeling pain to one extent or another guys. It's understandable. I'm not thrilled by any stretch of the imagination to have to wait for weeks or months (BFL orders) for products I have ordered. It's frustrating and frankly, depressing. 

All we can do now is wait for the chips to arrive, or ask for refunds. Make your choice. It's as simple as that.      

I'm certainly not posting to try and get people to get mass refunds. I agree that the delays currently are the sole fault of Bitsyncom, and I also agree 100%, that it is wise of TH not to order extra parts now with the questionable timing of the chips, assuming they can get the parts quickly, as they stated. The things that I find fault with TH have to do with their track record to date of saying something they will be doing, and never having that happen, which frankly, speaks volumes about trust.

You see the negativity as whining, and I see the people that don't acknowledge issues and attack those that bring them up as cheerleading. You detest the negativity, and I detest the cheerleading, so we dance. You did admit that you are trying to protect your investment, and I applaud your honesty, as it's apparent that is the motive. However, you don't represent TH, so speaking on their behalf is not something you need to do, unless you want to keep propagating this crap.

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[Silvas]

Member of Silent Majority here:


When you get right down to it, you guys just want to complain. I'm sure that when you get your boards, you'll complain about the quality of the packing material used or some such other bs.

Everyone that is on the fence about this: don't listen to these guys who say that we should all get refunds immediately. Not only would it cause great problems for TH, more importantly, it will harm everyone else who is waiting patiently for their boards.

Everyone that is on the fence about this: don't listen to ANYONE.  Do not listen to anyone telling you to get a refund, and do not listen to anyone telling you to stick it out.
Make the decision for yourself based upon the information out there, what you feel it means for you, your risk tolerance and what you feel is right.

Look this is a business transaction, and should be treated as such.  You were offered the chance to purchase a piece of equipment for a certain price, and you decided to avail yourself of that opportunity.
Bringing emotions into a business transaction is bad business.  A business transaction should be conducted with logic and information - information on the past, present, and indicators of where the future is likely to go.
TH did not do this out of the goodness of their hearts, or to do the community a favor, or any other such emotion based reason.  They did it to make a profit.
You did not purchase to help TH make money, or out of the goodness of your heart, or to help someone else get a paycheck.  You did it because you wanted merchandise, and the price was acceptable to you.

You started out the transaction on a logical basis, keep it that way and make your own decisions.  Don't allow anyone, regardless of which side they're on, tell you which to do.  It's not their place to do so.
It's funny that the pro-th side bitches about a few people saying people should get refunds, and then does the same bloody thing for their side.

[hellfrozenow]

Everyone that is on the fence about this: don't listen to ANYONE.  Do not listen to anyone telling you to get a refund, and do not listen to anyone telling you to stick it out.
Make the decision for yourself based upon the information out there, what you feel it means for you, your risk tolerance and what you feel is right.

Look this is a business transaction, and should be treated as such.  You were offered the chance to purchase a piece of equipment for a certain price, and you decided to avail yourself of that opportunity.
Bringing emotions into a business transaction is bad business.  A business transaction should be conducted with logic and information - information on the past, present, and indicators of where the future is likely to go.
TH did not do this out of the goodness of their hearts, or to do the community a favor, or any other such emotion based reason.  They did it to make a profit.
You did not purchase to help TH make money, or out of the goodness of your heart, or to help someone else get a paycheck.  You did it because you wanted merchandise, and the price was acceptable to you.

You started out the transaction on a logical basis, keep it that way and make your own decisions.  Don't allow anyone, regardless of which side they're on, tell you which to do.  It's not their place to do so.
It's funny that the pro-th side bitches about a few people saying people should get refunds, and then does the same bloody thing for their side.

+1
One reason for people promoting refunds may be better position in queue for themselves

[knightlife999]

Member of Silent Majority here:


When you get right down to it, you guys just want to complain. I'm sure that when you get your boards, you'll complain about the quality of the packing material used or some such other bs.

Everyone that is on the fence about this: don't listen to these guys who say that we should all get refunds immediately. Not only would it cause great problems for TH, more importantly, it will harm everyone else who is waiting patiently for their boards.

Everyone that is on the fence about this: don't listen to ANYONE.  Do not listen to anyone telling you to get a refund, and do not listen to anyone telling you to stick it out.
Make the decision for yourself based upon the information out there, what you feel it means for you, your risk tolerance and what you feel is right.

Look this is a business transaction, and should be treated as such.  You were offered the chance to purchase a piece of equipment for a certain price, and you decided to avail yourself of that opportunity.
Bringing emotions into a business transaction is bad business.  A business transaction should be conducted with logic and information - information on the past, present, and indicators of where the future is likely to go.
TH did not do this out of the goodness of their hearts, or to do the community a favor, or any other such emotion based reason.  They did it to make a profit.
You did not purchase to help TH make money, or out of the goodness of your heart, or to help someone else get a paycheck.  You did it because you wanted merchandise, and the price was acceptable to you.

You started out the transaction on a logical basis, keep it that way and make your own decisions.  Don't allow anyone, regardless of which side they're on, tell you which to do.  It's not their place to do so.
It's funny that the pro-th side bitches about a few people saying people should get refunds, and then does the same bloody thing for their side.

Fair statements Silvas.

I would note that I did tell people who wanted to get a refund to go ahead and do it. I'm just against people who are advocating that everyone refund en masse.  

[Silvas]

Member of Silent Majority here:


When you get right down to it, you guys just want to complain. I'm sure that when you get your boards, you'll complain about the quality of the packing material used or some such other bs.

Everyone that is on the fence about this: don't listen to these guys who say that we should all get refunds immediately. Not only would it cause great problems for TH, more importantly, it will harm everyone else who is waiting patiently for their boards.

Everyone that is on the fence about this: don't listen to ANYONE.  Do not listen to anyone telling you to get a refund, and do not listen to anyone telling you to stick it out.
Make the decision for yourself based upon the information out there, what you feel it means for you, your risk tolerance and what you feel is right.

Look this is a business transaction, and should be treated as such.  You were offered the chance to purchase a piece of equipment for a certain price, and you decided to avail yourself of that opportunity.
Bringing emotions into a business transaction is bad business.  A business transaction should be conducted with logic and information - information on the past, present, and indicators of where the future is likely to go.
TH did not do this out of the goodness of their hearts, or to do the community a favor, or any other such emotion based reason.  They did it to make a profit.
You did not purchase to help TH make money, or out of the goodness of your heart, or to help someone else get a paycheck.  You did it because you wanted merchandise, and the price was acceptable to you.

You started out the transaction on a logical basis, keep it that way and make your own decisions.  Don't allow anyone, regardless of which side they're on, tell you which to do.  It's not their place to do so.
It's funny that the pro-th side bitches about a few people saying people should get refunds, and then does the same bloody thing for their side.

Fair statements Silvas.

I would note that I did tell people who wanted to get a refund to go ahead and do it. I'm just against people who are advocating that everyone refund en masse.  

I've only seen (although it's quite possible I've missed others) 1 person advocating en masse refunds, and I don't know that will have much impact on people's decisions.  For my part, I've been very careful to say I'm not telling anyone else to stick it out or get a refund.  Yes, I have been vocal about the things I feel or flat out know TH has done wrong and I've tried to be clear as to why I feel this is no longer a viable transaction; but I've done so for the sake of putting the information out there, both factual and opinion, not to try to sway people to jump ship but to let them take the information and do with it what they will - ignore it, consider it, interpret it etc.

[Bicknellski]

... Boycott future Avalon products.
... Report Avalon / Bitsyncom to the FTC.

And do what you need to do to protect your own interests. Remember make sure to put a hurt on Avalon and Yifu for the lack of communication and his failure to live up to his NO BS terms and conditions of which NO REFUNDS is certainly against FTC rules. If you can hold out and help out the DIY builders that be great but one has to really put the pressure on Yifu and where possible support the DIY people. They will be able to move on to the next chip if they can scrape through... but again it is a personal call on that.

[knightlife999]

I for one, plan on never buying anything Yifu related in the future.

[Vigil]

Yes difficulty is rising, but so is the price of BTC. Since it's inception, BTC has basically doubled in value each year. Think about what that would mean for next year. Not bad ROI. In addition to mining, I'm using a bot to trade BTC and it's doing very well. Diversification is the key to success in any investment.

Irrelevant. If you need BTC price to rise above the price it was at when you made your purchase to break even or make a profit you made the wrong choice.

Not if you are investing in BTC for the long run. ASIC sellers are not selling ROI, they are selling products that mine Bitcoins. I'm in Bitcoin for the long run, and I expect that my miners will more than make ROI in the long run. If someone got into this to make a quick buck (which is clear that many people did), they are in the wrong state of mind for an investor.

Especially if you are investing in the long run. There is no scenario in that case for which you are better off buying mining equipment. Its a bust if you require the pirce to go up to make your money back or see a gain.

[klee]

I for one, plan on never buying anything Yifu related in the future.

+1

[justmyname]

Yes difficulty is rising, but so is the price of BTC. Since it's inception, BTC has basically doubled in value each year. Think about what that would mean for next year. Not bad ROI. In addition to mining, I'm using a bot to trade BTC and it's doing very well. Diversification is the key to success in any investment.

Irrelevant. If you need BTC price to rise above the price it was at when you made your purchase to break even or make a profit you made the wrong choice.

Not if you are investing in BTC for the long run. ASIC sellers are not selling ROI, they are selling products that mine Bitcoins. I'm in Bitcoin for the long run, and I expect that my miners will more than make ROI in the long run. If someone got into this to make a quick buck (which is clear that many people did), they are in the wrong state of mind for an investor.

Especially if you are investing in the long run. There is no scenario in that case for which you are better off buying mining equipment. Its a bust if you require the pirce to go up to make your money back or see a gain.

You either have to get your equipment in a reasonable time frame. Good luck with that. That almost never happens. They could keep the equipment and mine with it until it's almost useless. Claim they don't have chips. 

Or the price of Bitcoin could go to an outrageous price making it impossible to buy but you would still be able to mine.  

[MinermanNC]

Something to read while you drink your coffee...

http://www.coindesk.com/golden-answers-to-all-your-bitcoin-questions/



(an excerpt video from the above article)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQV2GHRRfEk

A walk down memory lane for me, those days were so exciting with those big ol floppy's and dos commands, in my days of youth in IT (aka) Data Services Department 

So what is an asic again?  lol

[atomicchaos]

I for one, plan on never buying anything Yifu related in the future.

Ditto.

[kkooks]

This community is made up of many knowledgeable people, of all areas of expertise-- also a reason why it is such a powerful knowledge base for resolving issues related to the current product development/project management issues that you are seeing terrahash.

Take advantage of it.

If the current pressures to refund monies to your customers is starting to get overwhelming, come out and say it.
If there are real issues procuring the BOM components, come out and ask for help.
If there are product development issues, reach out to us to find the solutions.

What infuriates me is if facts are skewed, misrepresented, and feed us the little lies to buy more time for whatever the issues maybe + condescending comments to discourage further scrutiny-- youre only going to encourage it.

1. Start updating your website on a more regular basis (even if the updates are not substantial)
2. Post pictures of the progress with some issues youre seeing and what you need help with to resolve them
3. Do not tell us what we want to hear for the sake of it.

Keep in mind, we are NOT your investors. We are your customers.

[-Redacted-]

 

[fasmax]

How's that K64 coming along???

[bluefin]

This is how a company with ethics deals with this situation,
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=251831.0

We didnt ask for anything out of the ordinary, just communicate with us,... they couldnt even do that.

[krayzie32]

This is how a company with ethics deals with this situation,
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=251831.0

We didnt ask for anything out of the ordinary, just communicate with us,... they couldnt even do that.

He was selling K1s so his part cost would have been next to nothing.  After reading that thread he never even bought any parts.  Good on him to refund since a K1 will never ROI instead of just taking peoples money and running.

[Bitoy]

Bitmine.ch is  "able to source from third parties a lot of Avalon ICs that is big enough to assemble all of our Batch #1 units."

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=215431.340

I wish Terrahash could do the same.

[krayzie32]

Bitmine.ch is  "able to source from third parties a lot of Avalon ICs that is big enough to assemble all of our Batch #1 units."

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=215431.340

I wish Terrahash could do the same.

You could also pay 3x the cost of the chips yourself and send the chips to Terrahash for them to assemble.

[notlist3d]

Bitmine.ch is  "able to source from third parties a lot of Avalon ICs that is big enough to assemble all of our Batch #1 units."

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=215431.340

I wish Terrahash could do the same.

I also wish Terrahash was able to get funded by a "Hong-Kong Based Investment Fund" for 500,000 - 1,000,000 USD.

I'm sure if they were able to get such funding they would be able to "Source from third parties a lot of Avalon ICs".

Know any good investment funds?

Why would they want to use a investment fund when they can get pre-orders?

Think about it from their side they get cash and give up zero percent of company.  If it the company succeeds they still own 100 percent of it and owe no loans.

If it fails they pack up accept their salary they have been getting over the past months and move on.  I would love to know what their salary is they are paying them self's.  Think about they didn't design, build, or buy many things yet.  There is no way they are putting in 40 hour weeks.  But i am willing to bet they get a nice salary.