Off-Topic

[zurg]

Looks like BitFury will be shipping soon, they are rolling 100TH batch off production now.
Kinda glad I decided to get a kit there.

[flowdab]

TH does not seem to be answering requests for refunds.

TH secretly snuck in a "no-refunds" policy at the last moment before opening up pre-orders.

You have a valid point, but knowing everything you know and how the BTC business works,
and the fact that none of these companies are venture funded or have a million dollars to fall back on,
do you think its unreasonable to say that they are not going to do refunds?

if you put it in the context of your neighborhood plumber and you tell them I want you to re-model my kitchen,
and you pay them upfront and they go out and get you custom marble, cabinets, stove, refrigerator and they layout the money and then you come along a week or month before they are to deliver and say "I want a refund"

What do you expect to get back from them after they have spent 80% of your money?

And the excuse of "Well they can just sell my order to someone else" is not valid, because it's your order, you go sell it. They have already invested your money in office space, boards, components, heatsinks etc.

Go away with your logic! That is frowned upon here!

+1

hahaha

That is a completely false analogy. If you order someone to build you a custom piece of furniture and you pay a hefty sum up-front with the expectation that they will be open and honest with their dealings as well as to respond to inquiries regarding your goods then it is perfectly acceptable to attempt to cancel the transaction if they do not do those things.

Further, your analogy fails in that it describes a custom made addition to your personal property. These are bitcoin miners that Terrahash can re-sell. They lose nothing by giving a refund to those customers who want them. Especially those customers who were never made aware that "no refunds" was going to be the operable method of doing business. I for one would have never purchased anything from them had I known that.

It is not their responsibility to try to "resell" the item that is custom ordered and built for you.

Just like that same furniture maker shouldn't have to try to resell the custom work they did for you if you agreed to the terms knowing it could take a little longer to build than initially thought.

However none of these analogies really matter because in this case it is Customer Greed,

They see opportunity elsewhere and will try to screw anyone in their path to try to get ASIC mining equipment.

Don't give me this Holier-than-thou act either. I'm not buying it, anyone at this point that wants a refund just wants to spend their money on a different ship that they think will sail sooner.

I am the customer. I have not received my product nor was I told that there were no refunds available. I did not agree to any terms or conditions that delineated a no refund policy. If I want a refund for whateverthefuckingreason then I deserve one.

[krayzie32]

I am the customer. I have not received my product nor was I told that there were no refunds available. I did not agree to any terms or conditions that delineated a no refund policy. If I want a refund for whateverthefuckingreason then I deserve one.

The no refunds policy was actually in place before the pre-orders started.  Not their fault you couldn't read.

[xyzpdq]

Is anyone planning on using the TH hosting service?  Any thoughts?  It seems like a good deal on the surface, but I am skeptical that I am missing something.  Can anyone give good reasons not to use it?  Thanks!

Not a single response?  Surly someone else is thinking about using the TH hosting?  Anyone?

[darkfriend77]

TH also bought out 20k extra chips, a while back from somebodys early order on top of what they ordered.... maybe they will see those sooner???

maybe they will see those sooner???

+1

dream mode switched "on"
realism switched "off"

[bebfoo]

I am the customer. I have not received my product nor was I told that there were no refunds available. I did not agree to any terms or conditions that delineated a no refund policy. If I want a refund for whateverthefuckingreason then I deserve one.

The no refunds policy was actually in place before the pre-orders started.  Not their fault you couldn't read.

But Amir told people earlier that refunds would be offered up until the ship date.  The policy was changed 2 days before the order period was opened up. So it was a bit disingenuous.   

[krayzie32]

I am the customer. I have not received my product nor was I told that there were no refunds available. I did not agree to any terms or conditions that delineated a no refund policy. If I want a refund for whateverthefuckingreason then I deserve one.

The no refunds policy was actually in place before the pre-orders started.  Not their fault you couldn't read.

But Amir told people earlier that refunds would be offered up until the ship date.  The policy was changed 2 days before the order period was opened up. So it was a bit disingenuous.   

That was before cloudhashing screwed them.

[MinermanNC]

I am the customer. I have not received my product nor was I told that there were no refunds available. I did not agree to any terms or conditions that delineated a no refund policy. If I want a refund for whateverthefuckingreason then I deserve one.

The no refunds policy was actually in place before the pre-orders started.  Not their fault you couldn't read.

But Amir told people earlier that refunds would be offered up until the ship date.  The policy was changed 2 days before the order period was opened up. So it was a bit disingenuous.   

lol ya it sure was 

[MinermanNC]

I wonder why it is so difficult for Th or any of em to simply call up avalon and ask what the ETA is for their chip order??? Ya know? Do you have to speak Chinese or something...lol, I mean with $78,000 per batch ya think there would be some formal line of communications...I understand TH cant build and ship till they have all the parts in house...but what about avalon are they waiting for a shipment of silcon or something lol if anyone has a good answer please post why the big mystery on a shipment anyways

[zurg]

I wonder why it is so difficult for Th or any of em to simply call up avalon and ask what the ETA is for their chip order??? Ya know? Do you have to speak Chinese or something...lol, I mean with $78,000 per batch ya think there would be some formal line of communications...I understand TH cant build and ship till they have all the parts in house...but what about avalon are they waiting for a shipment of silcon or something lol if anyone has a good answer please post why the big mystery on a shipment anyways

Exactly!

Check this out :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264098.msg2886486#msg2886486
Kinda what I am thinking that TH should have been doing the last week or 2.

[MinermanNC]

WOW Zurg,,, If any thruth to this,,,,we all be in deep doo doo $$$$$

$14,000,000.00+ in Avalon chips missing, and you thought BFL was bad? (self.Bitcoin)

submitted 27 minutes ago* by defconoi





Avalon is currently over a month late in shipping over $14 Million dollars in Avalon asic chips to group buys on Bitcointalk: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264098.0

This could quite possibly be the biggest Bitcoin theft in History.

If anyone can contact Yifu Guo of Avalon for chip status/confirmation that they will ship, please do. They have ignored all contact emails and phone calls for over a month

EDIT: um this would explain things.... oh noooooo! lol

[zurg]

WOW Zurg,,, If any thruth to this,,,,we all be in deep doo doo $$$$$

$14,000,000.00+ in Avalon chips missing, and you thought BFL was bad? (self.Bitcoin)

submitted 27 minutes ago* by defconoi





Avalon is currently over a month late in shipping over $14 Million dollars in Avalon asic chips to group buys on Bitcointalk: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264098.0

This could quite possibly be the biggest Bitcoin theft in History.

If anyone can contact Yifu Guo of Avalon for chip status/confirmation that they will ship, please do. They have ignored all contact emails and phone calls for over a month

EDIT: um this would explain things.... oh noooooo! lol

Yeah, read that thread. Almost like a lynching party is out for Avalon.
The one positive thing is that SebastianJu is now there also.

[knightlife999]

That information is no more troubling than the fact that BFL has taken much longer than promised to deliver their orders. Yifu is not answering his phone or replying to emails. Everyone is trying to contact him. Apparently, he doesn't like to answer his phone when people are calling to complain. Many people who have been in past orders with Avalon have said that when he doesn't answer his phone, Avalon is about to ship products. We'll see if that holds true. Avalon has finally started shipping Batch 3 pre-orders the past couple of weeks. It looks like they are holding off of sending the bulk chips to catch up on their batch 3 miners. This isn't us getting scammed yet. It's just Avalon's bad customer service and unreliable order fulfillment procedures. At least Avalon is only 2 months behind and not 12 months+ behind. Everyone is looking for a reason to freak out. Take some xanax and relax. Avalon hasn't bought an island and fled the country or anything. Yifu and Avalon are trying to get into more public offerings. They wouldn't flee with everyone's money.  

I mean, come on.... over a month late? How late are everyone's BFL orders?

[MinermanNC]

That information is no more troubling than the fact that BFL has taken much longer than promised to deliver their orders. Yifu is not answering his phone or replying to emails. Avalon is finally shipping Batch 3 pre-orders the past couple of weeks. It looks like they are holding off of sending the bulk chips to catch up on their batch 3 miners. This isn't us getting scammed yet. It's just Avalon's bad customer service and unreliable order fulfillment procedures. At least Avalon is only 2 months behind and not 12 months+ behind. Everyone is looking for a reason to freak out. Take some xanax and relax. Avalon hasn't bought an island and fled the country or anything. Yifu and Avalon are trying to get into more public offerings. They wouldn't flee with everyone's money.  

I mean, come on.... over a month late? How late are everyone's BFL orders?

Whew I was wondering when you would chime in KL! lol, ya I have been snooping around the forums and news bases and havent seen anything concrete on anyone vanishing with 14 million,,,well at least not yet? lol, I dont mind waiting a little longer,,,but boy what assurances and guarantees does TH or any open source orders get from avalon... A bill of sale in Bitcoin,,,no strings attached...except reputation,,,,thats what BTC really is all about,,,,trust,,,but there is a lot greedy crooks out there! They sure are holding lot$ of Bitcoin..avalon

[pixl8tr]

I mean, come on.... over a month late? How late are everyone's BFL orders?

Apples and Oranges man.. No manufacturing involved, just repacking the chips and shipping out.    We know the chips exist, so what is worrying everyone is the lack of communication on the delays.

[massnerder]

I mean, come on.... over a month late? How late are everyone's BFL orders?

You make a valid point, but still not a comforting one.      Just because BFL are ridiculous late on their orders shouldn't excuse anyone else from doing the same thing.  If anything, it should be motivation to stick to a stated timeline IMHO, or at least handle the delays more gracefully than BFL has.

[Bitcoinorama]

I am the customer. I have not received my product nor was I told that there were no refunds available. I did not agree to any terms or conditions that delineated a no refund policy. If I want a refund for whateverthefuckingreason then I deserve one.

The no refunds policy was actually in place before the pre-orders started.  Not their fault you couldn't read.

But Amir told people earlier that refunds would be offered up until the ship date.  The policy was changed 2 days before the order period was opened up. So it was a bit disingenuous.  

No just before they opened up for orders Cloudhashing who basically fronted them enough cash to get starters with a large order ditched them for another horse and demanded a refund in Bitcoins after Terrahash had already placed an order with Avalon for 10,000 bulk chips.

They were commited to the project by that point and cloudhashing screwed them over. They could't afford to offer refunds or let that happen again.

[Bitcoin Scammer]

Of course you will

[bluefin]

Ok guys, here's the deal. Given the current conditions (rising difficulty, Avalon uncertainty, etc.), a lot of people who ordered chips from Avalon are willing to resell their chips at cost price. This was not true a month ago or so, when we made a deal to acquire two additional orders for a premium (We never bought those orders, but only made a deal to pay a premium once they had chips in hand). We have decided to scrap those deals and instead buy chip orders from people who want to get out by selling their order for the price they paid. We have got 3 offers so far. We will re-open pre-orders after buying these.

We will keep you posted on this development.

Also, all these 3 offers are for May orders.

So how many chips do you physically have in house ready to be soldered?

[pitchbend]

That information is no more troubling than the fact that BFL has taken much longer than promised to deliver their orders. Yifu is not answering his phone or replying to emails. Everyone is trying to contact him. Apparently, he doesn't like to answer his phone when people are calling to complain. Many people who have been in past orders with Avalon have said that when he doesn't answer his phone, Avalon is about to ship products. We'll see if that holds true. Avalon has finally started shipping Batch 3 pre-orders the past couple of weeks. It looks like they are holding off of sending the bulk chips to catch up on their batch 3 miners. This isn't us getting scammed yet. It's just Avalon's bad customer service and unreliable order fulfillment procedures. At least Avalon is only 2 months behind and not 12 months+ behind. Everyone is looking for a reason to freak out. Take some xanax and relax. Avalon hasn't bought an island and fled the country or anything. Yifu and Avalon are trying to get into more public offerings. They wouldn't flee with everyone's money.  

I mean, come on.... over a month late? How late are everyone's BFL orders?

yeah except now Bitsyncom is falling apart. Gridchip, their chip designer (you know, the one who posted pictures of this massive amount of packaged AVALON chips to prove it https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=252233.msg2694806#msg2694806) is looking for new partners for his new 40nm chip, and saying things like "people with chips in their hands should consider themselves lucky..." and hinting to big delays at TSMC...

so maybe yifu has disappeared from the face of the earth because he is about to deliver   or maybe shit is hitting the fan... In fact I may take that xanax anyway.