Off-Topic

[swappermall]

Some events happened last week, that have forced us to make a decision to go out of business. A lot of issues compounded to press us to do this. The failure of the Klondike project was one. Chase, our bank, shut down our accounts. Also the delay in the shipment of the chips has resulted in a lot of customers asking for refund. We already owe a lot of money to PayPal, and with all the refund requests, it is impossible for us to continue our operation profitably. So we have decided to dissolve the company.

We are going to ask for a refund from Yifu. As soon as we get a refund from him, we will start refunding all the orders. We will be able to refund about 50% of every order with this amount. We are trying to get our money out of Chase, which will help us refund another ~5% of each order. We are trying to return as many components as we can, and as soon as we get more money back, we will send additional pro-rated payments to each order.

Once we get a refund from Yifu, we will be sending an email to everyone asking for a current Bitcoin address where to send the payments.

Is anyone proposing a common course of action for all the customers screwed by this "business" decision?

[MinermanNC]

Gee TH "going out of business" who woulda thunk, and I was called unwise and childish by DUKE and bar called me an amature one or 2  pages back,,,,,,,well let me tell ya something, MR Duke and bar, I  had enough insight and wisdom and f**king sense to get my chargeback started before the 60 day cut off, knowing the banks would most likely pull the plug on their accounts.... it appears my wisdom and age came through for me on this one.

PS: YOU WILL NOT SEE YOUR MONEY FOR A LONG LONG TIME IF EVER, especially if they are going into bankruptcy,,,at best PENNIES on the dollar..... and it will all be perfectly legal you get what you get based on their assets and cash on hand. Been there done that,,,but what do I know right? or even Atomic for that matter..... ATOMIC tried hard to warn everyone over and over, I am glad I looked to him for advise and his honest opinion in another forum on what to do here,,,his advise saved me 3,000 THANK YOU ATOMIC!!!! (even tho my gut was telling me to get out while the gettn was good)

[mrthundercleese]

Some events happened last week, that have forced us to make a decision to go out of business. A lot of issues compounded to press us to do this. The failure of the Klondike project was one. Chase, our bank, shut down our accounts. Also the delay in the shipment of the chips has resulted in a lot of customers asking for refund. We already owe a lot of money to PayPal, and with all the refund requests, it is impossible for us to continue our operation profitably. So we have decided to dissolve the company.

We are going to ask for a refund from Yifu. As soon as we get a refund from him, we will start refunding all the orders. We will be able to refund about 50% of every order with this amount. We are trying to get our money out of Chase, which will help us refund another ~5% of each order. We are trying to return as many components as we can, and as soon as we get more money back, we will send additional pro-rated payments to each order.

Once we get a refund from Yifu, we will be sending an email to everyone asking for a current Bitcoin address where to send the payments.

Well.

[Patel]

And this is exactly why regulators are going to argue Bitcoin has no consumer protection, unlike the major credit card companies. The people who paid these guys in Bitcoin can easily get screwed over.

[massnerder]

Some events happened last week, that have forced us to make a decision to go out of business. A lot of issues compounded to press us to do this. The failure of the Klondike project was one. Chase, our bank, shut down our accounts. Also the delay in the shipment of the chips has resulted in a lot of customers asking for refund. We already owe a lot of money to PayPal, and with all the refund requests, it is impossible for us to continue our operation profitably. So we have decided to dissolve the company.

We are going to ask for a refund from Yifu. As soon as we get a refund from him, we will start refunding all the orders. We will be able to refund about 50% of every order with this amount. We are trying to get our money out of Chase, which will help us refund another ~5% of each order. We are trying to return as many components as we can, and as soon as we get more money back, we will send additional pro-rated payments to each order.

Once we get a refund from Yifu, we will be sending an email to everyone asking for a current Bitcoin address where to send the payments.

Please send back all the chips that customer has sent you. I don't understand why you are holding on the chips knowing full well you are going to fold. Those customer could have switch the chips to another manufacturer weeks ago.

This speaks the loudest...  TH must have known for a while that this was coming, where are this guys chips?  Very glad I got most of my money out via chargeback, had a tiny order for a single k16 paid in btc so I am not losing near as much as some on this.  I still want it back though    100% refund. yesterday.  Let's go!

[aznewsh]

Handbags at 5 paces 

[MinermanNC]

Gee TH "going out of business" who woulda thunk, and I was called unwise and childish by DUKE and bar called me an amature one or 2  pages back,,,,,,,well let me tell ya something, MR Duke and bar, I  had enough insight and wisdom and f**king sense to get my chargeback started before the 60 day cut off, knowing the banks would most likely pull the plug on their accounts.... it appears my wisdom and age came through for me on this one.

PS: YOU WILL NOT SEE YOUR MONEY FOR A LONG LONG TIME IF EVER, especially if they are going into bankruptcy,,,at best PENNIES on the dollar..... and it will all be perfectly legal you get what you get based on their assets and cash on hand. Been there done that,,,but what do I know right? or even Atomic for that matter..... ATOMIC tried hard to warn everyone over and over, I am glad I looked to him for advise and his honest opinion in another forum on what to do here,,,his advise saved me 3,000 THANK YOU ATOMIC!!!! (even tho my gut was telling me to get out while the gettn was good)

You know what they say "Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while"

That being said, we have heard it all before, you paid with a credit card/paypal and got your money back. Great! Maybe your "age" is preventing you to understand that this isn't about people that paid via CC or PayPal anymore as they all received their money back.

You are an amatuer, as all you do is play captain hindsight.

LOL.... Hindsight is 20/20 woulda, coulda, shoulda.......... at least i got his one right for a change,,, Oh and ah there is still many that paid cc or paypal still on the hook,,,,How did you pay again anyways? BTC? OR wire?

[MinermanNC]

And this is exactly why regulators are going to argue Bitcoin has no consumer protection, unlike the major credit card companies. The people who paid these guys in Bitcoin can easily get screwed over.

I'm afraid your right ..... more ammo for the regulators....

[Shimple]

Gee TH "going out of business" who woulda thunk, and I was called unwise and childish by DUKE and bar called me an amature one or 2  pages back,,,,,,,well let me tell ya something, MR Duke and bar, I  had enough insight and wisdom and f**king sense to get my chargeback started before the 60 day cut off, knowing the banks would most likely pull the plug on their accounts.... it appears my wisdom and age came through for me on this one.

PS: YOU WILL NOT SEE YOUR MONEY FOR A LONG LONG TIME IF EVER, especially if they are going into bankruptcy,,,at best PENNIES on the dollar..... and it will all be perfectly legal you get what you get based on their assets and cash on hand. Been there done that,,,but what do I know right? or even Atomic for that matter..... ATOMIC tried hard to warn everyone over and over, I am glad I looked to him for advise and his honest opinion in another forum on what to do here,,,his advise saved me 3,000 THANK YOU ATOMIC!!!! (even tho my gut was telling me to get out while the gettn was good)

You know what they say "Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while"

That being said, we have heard it all before, you paid with a credit card/paypal and got your money back. Great! Maybe your "age" is preventing you to understand that this isn't about people that paid via CC or PayPal anymore as they all received their money back.

You are an amatuer, as all you do is play captain hindsight.

LOL.... Hindsight is 20/20 woulda, coulda, shoulda.......... at least i got his one right for a change,,, Oh and ah there is still many that paid cc or paypal still on the hook,,,,How did you pay again anyways? BTC? OR wire?

If you paid PayPal there is no point for you to do a lawsuit. You can get your money back. You just gotta keep calling again and again until you hit the right representative. Even if your past due the charge back period.

I paid wire transfer so there is obviously nothing I can do besides a lawsuit.

Anyways, this 50% refund is bull shit. I am beyond pissed and this is just non sense. They are just extending time again and unless you take action you wont get anything.

[Patel]

And this is exactly why regulators are going to argue Bitcoin has no consumer protection, unlike the major credit card companies. The people who paid these guys in Bitcoin can easily get screwed over.

Bitcoin isn't a company though.  If anything, it's just another lesson - don't hand over cash (bitcoin) without getting the goods in hand at the same time.  If you want to pre-order something or have some kind of consumer protection, use a credit card.

yup thats what i also meant to say

[iCEBREAKER]

Gee TH "going out of business" who woulda thunk, and I was called unwise and childish by DUKE and bar called me an amature one or 2  pages back,,,,,,,well let me tell ya something, MR Duke and bar, I  had enough insight and wisdom and f**king sense to get my chargeback started before the 60 day cut off, knowing the banks would most likely pull the plug on their accounts.... it appears my wisdom and age came through for me on this one.

PS: YOU WILL NOT SEE YOUR MONEY FOR A LONG LONG TIME IF EVER, especially if they are going into bankruptcy,,,at best PENNIES on the dollar..... and it will all be perfectly legal you get what you get based on their assets and cash on hand. Been there done that,,,but what do I know right? or even Atomic for that matter..... ATOMIC tried hard to warn everyone over and over, I am glad I looked to him for advise and his honest opinion in another forum on what to do here,,,his advise saved me 3,000 THANK YOU ATOMIC!!!! (even tho my gut was telling me to get out while the gettn was good)

You know what they say "Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while"

That being said, we have heard it all before, you paid with a credit card/paypal and got your money back. Great! Maybe your "age" is preventing you to understand that this isn't about people that paid via CC or PayPal anymore as they all received their money back.

You are an amatuer, as all you do is play captain hindsight.

Better to be Captain Hindsight than Captain Failhard Doesntlisten.

(I gave Bargraphics over a month of advance warning, telling him to get out of Activemining while he could.  He called me an "asshole.")

He's stuck with 97,000 Active shares, for which he paid 0.0017 but now can't sell for over 0.0012.

So Captain Failhard, tell us again who the amateur here is.   

[Biomech]

If you make a case for Fraud you can bypass the Corporation. That's all I will say on this subject currently.

demonstrating criminal intent?

Yes. Or gross negilgence. I am not a lawyer, but my wife is. I think that proving outright fraud in this case is almost impossible. For one thing, I don't think it was. Proving stupidity, however, that could be a different story. Failure to practice certain business norms, lack of transparency to customers, changing of terms of sale after the fact, all of these could be construed as torts. Going for criminal charges is likely a much harder proposition, but here the intent is, or seems to be, recovery of purchase monies. That's civil, not criminal, and the burden of proof standards, evidentiary standards, and necessary criteria to convict are all lower.

LLC doesn't shield the principals from all liability if they fail to meet the criteria of an LLC. It is in fact easier to protect the principals with a standard corporation, but more difficult to meet the criteria. LLC is more flexible in it's rules, which is why it has become so popular. But a small LLC will be held responsible via it's corporate officers if the plaintiff can prove negligence or misrepresentation, both of which are likely in this instance.

I think this whole situation is rather unfortunate, and I foresee only lawyers making any gains from it. I do not believe that Amir and Justin actually set out to defraud anyone. I think they were overconfident and undercompetent and it ended up biting them, and all of you who bought from them in the ass. I would have been one of them had things in my life gone down just a bit differently. They were one of two companies I wanted to buy equipment from. And as much as I feel sympathy towards them, if I had money on the line I would be suing.

[xyzzy099]

And this is exactly why regulators are going to argue Bitcoin has no consumer protection, unlike the major credit card companies. The people who paid these guys in Bitcoin can easily get screwed over.

The same can be said of cash in any form, be it BTC or $.  Bitcoin is just a currency - and no currency I know of has built-in consumer protection.

[Biomech]

The couple sued me for lack of consortium didn't get any results either.

What the fuck are you talking about? A consortium is a group of companies for a specific task. Not a tort.

[Humax]

Some events happened last week, that have forced us to make a decision to go out of business. A lot of issues compounded to press us to do this. The failure of the Klondike project was one. Chase, our bank, shut down our accounts. Also the delay in the shipment of the chips has resulted in a lot of customers asking for refund. We already owe a lot of money to PayPal, and with all the refund requests, it is impossible for us to continue our operation profitably. So we have decided to dissolve the company.

We are going to ask for a refund from Yifu. As soon as we get a refund from him, we will start refunding all the orders. We will be able to refund about 50% of every order with this amount. We are trying to get our money out of Chase, which will help us refund another ~5% of each order. We are trying to return as many components as we can, and as soon as we get more money back, we will send additional pro-rated payments to each order.

Once we get a refund from Yifu, we will be sending an email to everyone asking for a current Bitcoin address where to send the payments.

Why only 50% refund?
Did you develop asics chips? No!
SO where did the money go ?

+1 Exactly!
This proofs that TH was a scam from the start.
They haven't done anything and 50% is gone.
So what if they did do something? Like developing boards and assemble miners etc.

And how about the person who send him the chips? Also poof and it's gone?

[laughingbear]

WHEN? can i get my refund?  I understand things sucked, and I dont even think its terrahashs fault, but they shouldn't hold my money any longer than necessary.

how did you pay

I paid in bitcoin

[MinermanNC]

Gee TH "going out of business" who woulda thunk, and I was called unwise and childish by DUKE and bar called me an amature one or 2  pages back,,,,,,,well let me tell ya something, MR Duke and bar, I  had enough insight and wisdom and f**king sense to get my chargeback started before the 60 day cut off, knowing the banks would most likely pull the plug on their accounts.... it appears my wisdom and age came through for me on this one.

PS: YOU WILL NOT SEE YOUR MONEY FOR A LONG LONG TIME IF EVER, especially if they are going into bankruptcy,,,at best PENNIES on the dollar..... and it will all be perfectly legal you get what you get based on their assets and cash on hand. Been there done that,,,but what do I know right? or even Atomic for that matter..... ATOMIC tried hard to warn everyone over and over, I am glad I looked to him for advise and his honest opinion in another forum on what to do here,,,his advise saved me 3,000 THANK YOU ATOMIC!!!! (even tho my gut was telling me to get out while the gettn was good)

You know what they say "Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while"

That being said, we have heard it all before, you paid with a credit card/paypal and got your money back. Great! Maybe your "age" is preventing you to understand that this isn't about people that paid via CC or PayPal anymore as they all received their money back.

You are an amatuer, as all you do is play captain hindsight.

LOL.... Hindsight is 20/20 woulda, coulda, shoulda.......... at least i got his one right for a change,,, Oh and ah there is still many that paid cc or paypal still on the hook,,,,How did you pay again anyways? BTC? OR wire?

If you paid PayPal there is no point for you to do a lawsuit. You can get your money back. You just gotta keep calling again and again until you hit the right representative. Even if your past due the charge back period.

I paid wire transfer so there is obviously nothing I can do besides a lawsuit.

Anyways, this 50% refund is bull shit. I am beyond pissed and this is just non sense. They are just extending time again and unless you take action you wont get anything.

Once they file Bankruptcy its all over folks,,,end of game, over ,,notta,,,nothing coming back,, etc etc etc,,, their creditors get theirs first... Paypal,,and banks...
EDIT: and this BS about yifu? huh! lol,,,, kiss your BTC good bye baby

[Biomech]

And this is exactly why regulators are going to argue Bitcoin has no consumer protection, unlike the major credit card companies. The people who paid these guys in Bitcoin can easily get screwed over.

Agreed. Which is exactly why there needs to be a similar scheme in place for bitcoin. Or more than one. Mining is just a piece of the game.

[hammurabi]

Can we track Yifu's refunds back to TH?
Should be four batches (4 x 780 BTC).
I fear that TH could already consumed these on their next project.


Refunds have already been paid by BitSynCom in FULL amount of 780 BTC per 10.000 chips batch.
http://blockchain.info/address/1JrwWrt3TYUzMYFEBLX5hTo1zFsEY6tWZN.


So immediate partial refunds should look like:
780 BTC / 10000 = 0.078 BTC per chip.
1.248 BTC per K16 board.
4.992 BTC per K64 board.


Regarding the whole situation I believe that TH intended no harm.
Instead they were too amateurish. Trying to seize as large number of pre-orders as possible without any back up funds.
This is shown when they extended chips order to 40.000, going full speed on risk.

[xyzzy099]

And this is exactly why regulators are going to argue Bitcoin has no consumer protection, unlike the major credit card companies. The people who paid these guys in Bitcoin can easily get screwed over.

Agreed. Which is exactly why there needs to be a similar scheme in place for bitcoin. Or more than one. Mining is just a piece of the game.

And what 'consumer protection' is in place for cash $ ?  Bitcoin is just a currency.  Currencies do not ever have built-in consumer protections.

That being said, there is no reason why you couldn't eventually get a credit card that DOES give you protection AND let's you pay your bill with BTC if you want to.