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Author Topic: Bitmain looks like they're releasing a 15GH/s DASH miner called the AntMiner D3  (Read 183040 times)
lentyna
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July 31, 2017, 06:27:58 PM
 #481

Comparison b/n D3 and L3+?  ROI wise, seems obvious D3 is winner.  Any reason to buy L3+?

Not right now, it's too late.

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July 31, 2017, 06:29:26 PM
 #482

Comparison b/n D3 and L3+?  ROI wise, seems obvious D3 is winner.  Any reason to buy L3+?

Depends on how soon you can get either one. L3+ has already sold several batches, and D3 only a few. If you can get a D3 ordered in the next batch then it would be better than getting an L3+ in the next batch.

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July 31, 2017, 09:15:58 PM
 #483

If Litecoin increases its price, perhaps the L3 is interesting  Roll Eyes
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July 31, 2017, 09:50:30 PM
 #484

If Litecoin increases its price, perhaps the L3 is interesting  Roll Eyes
The difficulty of the hash rate is increasing at a far faster pace. It is easily negating the value of the increase in the coin. The larger release of the units hasn't even hit the pools yet. LTC profitability is down almost 50% already from the stated highs. That will get much much worse.
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July 31, 2017, 10:44:16 PM
 #485

I am soo nervous about catching the next D3 batch. If I miss it again I'll have to wait for L4 or whatever miner.

If the next D3 batch has later shipping dates than the first 2 then I can see bitmain cutting the prices significaly like they did with the L3+
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August 01, 2017, 02:58:00 AM
 #486

I am soo nervous about catching the next D3 batch. If I miss it again I'll have to wait for L4 or whatever miner.

If the next D3 batch has later shipping dates than the first 2 then I can see bitmain cutting the prices significaly like they did with the L3+

IMHO I think if you are in the September batch, you will probably be OK. Don't forget all the new X11 ASICs coming on the market around the same time. Dash difficulty already jumped 100%+ during July and will only continue to increase.
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August 01, 2017, 04:19:33 AM
 #487

If Litecoin increases its price, perhaps the L3 is interesting  Roll Eyes
The difficulty of the hash rate is increasing at a far faster pace. It is easily negating the value of the increase in the coin. The larger release of the units hasn't even hit the pools yet. LTC profitability is down almost 50% already from the stated highs. That will get much much worse.

 But it's a TON higher than it was up to the bit price runup, despite the recent hashrate/diff jumps.

 I came VERY close to shutting down my A2 units late last winter because they were very marginal on profitability DESPITE my low electric cost, and I was contemplating adding "more efficient" rigs in their place.
 Right now, they're bloody near my MOST profitable current rigs (though keep in mind I don't build riser-GPU rigs so all my GPU rigs are 3-card).

 They also cost me ballpark HALF what most of my recent GPU rigs have cost me, and are long since paid off....


 X11 total network hashrate IIRC is quite a bit lower as a "number of D3 units" basis than Scrypt is on a "number of L3+ or A4 units" basis - it'll probably be longer before Scrypt profitability drops to "last year" levels for an L3+ then it will be for a D3, especially with *3* folks making big X11 units now (and who knows what Baikal will come up with to replace their current chip with).

 One kicker in the deck - BW.COM and their Scrypt miner, which is CLAIMED to be 28nm therefore quite a bit cheaper to design and make than 14/16nm that the L3+ and A4 seems to be based on, AND a lot easier to get chips for.
 If BW.COM starts making and/or selling a serious number of THOSE miners, all bets are off.

 Scary part - it's specs are better than the A4 and VERY CLOSE on efficiency AND hashrate to the L3+.
 Perhaps THIS unit is why Bitmain cut L3+ pricing?


 On the other hand, BW.COM had announced plans at one point to sell their Bitcoin miners, then ended up either not doing so or ONLY selling them in bulk to large farms.....

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August 01, 2017, 06:33:21 AM
 #488

Comparison b/n D3 and L3+?  ROI wise, seems obvious D3 is winner.  Any reason to buy L3+?

Depends on how soon you can get either one. L3+ has already sold several batches, and D3 only a few. If you can get a D3 ordered in the next batch then it would be better than getting an L3+ in the next batch.

Only a few or just one batch?
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August 01, 2017, 09:42:56 AM
 #489

If Litecoin increases its price, perhaps the L3 is interesting  Roll Eyes
The difficulty of the hash rate is increasing at a far faster pace. It is easily negating the value of the increase in the coin. The larger release of the units hasn't even hit the pools yet. LTC profitability is down almost 50% already from the stated highs. That will get much much worse.

 But it's a TON higher than it was up to the bit price runup, despite the recent hashrate/diff jumps.

 I came VERY close to shutting down my A2 units late last winter because they were very marginal on profitability DESPITE my low electric cost, and I was contemplating adding "more efficient" rigs in their place.
 Right now, they're bloody near my MOST profitable current rigs (though keep in mind I don't build riser-GPU rigs so all my GPU rigs are 3-card).

 They also cost me ballpark HALF what most of my recent GPU rigs have cost me, and are long since paid off....


 X11 total network hashrate IIRC is quite a bit lower as a "number of D3 units" basis than Scrypt is on a "number of L3+ or A4 units" basis - it'll probably be longer before Scrypt profitability drops to "last year" levels for an L3+ then it will be for a D3, especially with *3* folks making big X11 units now (and who knows what Baikal will come up with to replace their current chip with).

 One kicker in the deck - BW.COM and their Scrypt miner, which is CLAIMED to be 28nm therefore quite a bit cheaper to design and make than 14/16nm that the L3+ and A4 seems to be based on, AND a lot easier to get chips for.
 If BW.COM starts making and/or selling a serious number of THOSE miners, all bets are off.

 Scary part - it's specs are better than the A4 and VERY CLOSE on efficiency AND hashrate to the L3+.
 Perhaps THIS unit is why Bitmain cut L3+ pricing?


 On the other hand, BW.COM had announced plans at one point to sell their Bitcoin miners, then ended up either not doing so or ONLY selling them in bulk to large farms.....



L3+ use 28nm technology
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August 01, 2017, 02:32:49 PM
 #490

Sent an email to get on Bitmain's mailing list.

Got a form letter saying the D3 was out of stock and to look at twitter or facebook etc.

Must be getting 'slammed' with emails and plain not bothering with email notifications anymore.

I suppose if everyone is rushing to your inbox.

Just thought it was interesting.

heh..man ..it must suck to work the phones and email at Bimain at this point in time.




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August 01, 2017, 05:28:07 PM
 #491

If Litecoin increases its price, perhaps the L3 is interesting  Roll Eyes
The difficulty of the hash rate is increasing at a far faster pace. It is easily negating the value of the increase in the coin. The larger release of the units hasn't even hit the pools yet. LTC profitability is down almost 50% already from the stated highs. That will get much much worse.

 But it's a TON higher than it was up to the bit price runup, despite the recent hashrate/diff jumps.

 I came VERY close to shutting down my A2 units late last winter because they were very marginal on profitability DESPITE my low electric cost, and I was contemplating adding "more efficient" rigs in their place.
 Right now, they're bloody near my MOST profitable current rigs (though keep in mind I don't build riser-GPU rigs so all my GPU rigs are 3-card).

 They also cost me ballpark HALF what most of my recent GPU rigs have cost me, and are long since paid off....


 X11 total network hashrate IIRC is quite a bit lower as a "number of D3 units" basis than Scrypt is on a "number of L3+ or A4 units" basis - it'll probably be longer before Scrypt profitability drops to "last year" levels for an L3+ then it will be for a D3, especially with *3* folks making big X11 units now (and who knows what Baikal will come up with to replace their current chip with).

 One kicker in the deck - BW.COM and their Scrypt miner, which is CLAIMED to be 28nm therefore quite a bit cheaper to design and make than 14/16nm that the L3+ and A4 seems to be based on, AND a lot easier to get chips for.
 If BW.COM starts making and/or selling a serious number of THOSE miners, all bets are off.

 Scary part - it's specs are better than the A4 and VERY CLOSE on efficiency AND hashrate to the L3+.
 Perhaps THIS unit is why Bitmain cut L3+ pricing?


 On the other hand, BW.COM had announced plans at one point to sell their Bitcoin miners, then ended up either not doing so or ONLY selling them in bulk to large farms.....



My question is why even delay shipment of D3 till September why not just start shipping now? I highly doubt that products are not completely built so what really is holding back the shipping of them?
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August 01, 2017, 05:58:14 PM
 #492

If Litecoin increases its price, perhaps the L3 is interesting  Roll Eyes
The difficulty of the hash rate is increasing at a far faster pace. It is easily negating the value of the increase in the coin. The larger release of the units hasn't even hit the pools yet. LTC profitability is down almost 50% already from the stated highs. That will get much much worse.

 But it's a TON higher than it was up to the bit price runup, despite the recent hashrate/diff jumps.

 I came VERY close to shutting down my A2 units late last winter because they were very marginal on profitability DESPITE my low electric cost, and I was contemplating adding "more efficient" rigs in their place.
 Right now, they're bloody near my MOST profitable current rigs (though keep in mind I don't build riser-GPU rigs so all my GPU rigs are 3-card).

 They also cost me ballpark HALF what most of my recent GPU rigs have cost me, and are long since paid off....


 X11 total network hashrate IIRC is quite a bit lower as a "number of D3 units" basis than Scrypt is on a "number of L3+ or A4 units" basis - it'll probably be longer before Scrypt profitability drops to "last year" levels for an L3+ then it will be for a D3, especially with *3* folks making big X11 units now (and who knows what Baikal will come up with to replace their current chip with).

 One kicker in the deck - BW.COM and their Scrypt miner, which is CLAIMED to be 28nm therefore quite a bit cheaper to design and make than 14/16nm that the L3+ and A4 seems to be based on, AND a lot easier to get chips for.
 If BW.COM starts making and/or selling a serious number of THOSE miners, all bets are off.

 Scary part - it's specs are better than the A4 and VERY CLOSE on efficiency AND hashrate to the L3+.
 Perhaps THIS unit is why Bitmain cut L3+ pricing?


 On the other hand, BW.COM had announced plans at one point to sell their Bitcoin miners, then ended up either not doing so or ONLY selling them in bulk to large farms.....



My question is why even delay shipment of D3 till September why not just start shipping now? I highly doubt that products are not completely built so what really is holding back the shipping of them?

They probably started sales after their first pre-production run to make sure their chip design was good and so that they could advertise accurate values. Once confirmed, they setup the sale to customers for batch 1/2 and sent the final order to the production foundry. A 2-month turn-around from the foundry is actually pretty impressive considering how small Bitmain is compared to the others who are ramping up their production at the same foundries (Apple, for example).

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August 01, 2017, 07:00:50 PM
 #493

If Litecoin increases its price, perhaps the L3 is interesting  Roll Eyes
The difficulty of the hash rate is increasing at a far faster pace. It is easily negating the value of the increase in the coin. The larger release of the units hasn't even hit the pools yet. LTC profitability is down almost 50% already from the stated highs. That will get much much worse.

 But it's a TON higher than it was up to the bit price runup, despite the recent hashrate/diff jumps.

 I came VERY close to shutting down my A2 units late last winter because they were very marginal on profitability DESPITE my low electric cost, and I was contemplating adding "more efficient" rigs in their place.
 Right now, they're bloody near my MOST profitable current rigs (though keep in mind I don't build riser-GPU rigs so all my GPU rigs are 3-card).

 They also cost me ballpark HALF what most of my recent GPU rigs have cost me, and are long since paid off....


 X11 total network hashrate IIRC is quite a bit lower as a "number of D3 units" basis than Scrypt is on a "number of L3+ or A4 units" basis - it'll probably be longer before Scrypt profitability drops to "last year" levels for an L3+ then it will be for a D3, especially with *3* folks making big X11 units now (and who knows what Baikal will come up with to replace their current chip with).

 One kicker in the deck - BW.COM and their Scrypt miner, which is CLAIMED to be 28nm therefore quite a bit cheaper to design and make than 14/16nm that the L3+ and A4 seems to be based on, AND a lot easier to get chips for.
 If BW.COM starts making and/or selling a serious number of THOSE miners, all bets are off.

 Scary part - it's specs are better than the A4 and VERY CLOSE on efficiency AND hashrate to the L3+.
 Perhaps THIS unit is why Bitmain cut L3+ pricing?


 On the other hand, BW.COM had announced plans at one point to sell their Bitcoin miners, then ended up either not doing so or ONLY selling them in bulk to large farms.....



My question is why even delay shipment of D3 till September why not just start shipping now? I highly doubt that products are not completely built so what really is holding back the shipping of them?

They probably started sales after their first pre-production run to make sure their chip design was good and so that they could advertise accurate values. Once confirmed, they setup the sale to customers for batch 1/2 and sent the final order to the production foundry. A 2-month turn-around from the foundry is actually pretty impressive considering how small Bitmain is compared to the others who are ramping up their production at the same foundries (Apple, for example).

Youre completely wrong.
Bitmain is mining with this D3s right now and making a decent profit for next 2 month...
I can show it on L3+ example and their HW dates, but dont have time to write an article right now.
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August 01, 2017, 07:06:45 PM
 #494

If Litecoin increases its price, perhaps the L3 is interesting  Roll Eyes
The difficulty of the hash rate is increasing at a far faster pace. It is easily negating the value of the increase in the coin. The larger release of the units hasn't even hit the pools yet. LTC profitability is down almost 50% already from the stated highs. That will get much much worse.

 But it's a TON higher than it was up to the bit price runup, despite the recent hashrate/diff jumps.

 I came VERY close to shutting down my A2 units late last winter because they were very marginal on profitability DESPITE my low electric cost, and I was contemplating adding "more efficient" rigs in their place.
 Right now, they're bloody near my MOST profitable current rigs (though keep in mind I don't build riser-GPU rigs so all my GPU rigs are 3-card).

 They also cost me ballpark HALF what most of my recent GPU rigs have cost me, and are long since paid off....


 X11 total network hashrate IIRC is quite a bit lower as a "number of D3 units" basis than Scrypt is on a "number of L3+ or A4 units" basis - it'll probably be longer before Scrypt profitability drops to "last year" levels for an L3+ then it will be for a D3, especially with *3* folks making big X11 units now (and who knows what Baikal will come up with to replace their current chip with).

 One kicker in the deck - BW.COM and their Scrypt miner, which is CLAIMED to be 28nm therefore quite a bit cheaper to design and make than 14/16nm that the L3+ and A4 seems to be based on, AND a lot easier to get chips for.
 If BW.COM starts making and/or selling a serious number of THOSE miners, all bets are off.

 Scary part - it's specs are better than the A4 and VERY CLOSE on efficiency AND hashrate to the L3+.
 Perhaps THIS unit is why Bitmain cut L3+ pricing?


 On the other hand, BW.COM had announced plans at one point to sell their Bitcoin miners, then ended up either not doing so or ONLY selling them in bulk to large farms.....



My question is why even delay shipment of D3 till September why not just start shipping now? I highly doubt that products are not completely built so what really is holding back the shipping of them?

They probably started sales after their first pre-production run to make sure their chip design was good and so that they could advertise accurate values. Once confirmed, they setup the sale to customers for batch 1/2 and sent the final order to the production foundry. A 2-month turn-around from the foundry is actually pretty impressive considering how small Bitmain is compared to the others who are ramping up their production at the same foundries (Apple, for example).

their internal mining schedule for built units is in the 1-6 month range, depending on the market. If you think you're getting money-printing machines right off the production line, you're naive.
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August 01, 2017, 07:36:04 PM
 #495

If Litecoin increases its price, perhaps the L3 is interesting  Roll Eyes
The difficulty of the hash rate is increasing at a far faster pace. It is easily negating the value of the increase in the coin. The larger release of the units hasn't even hit the pools yet. LTC profitability is down almost 50% already from the stated highs. That will get much much worse.

 But it's a TON higher than it was up to the bit price runup, despite the recent hashrate/diff jumps.

 I came VERY close to shutting down my A2 units late last winter because they were very marginal on profitability DESPITE my low electric cost, and I was contemplating adding "more efficient" rigs in their place.
 Right now, they're bloody near my MOST profitable current rigs (though keep in mind I don't build riser-GPU rigs so all my GPU rigs are 3-card).

 They also cost me ballpark HALF what most of my recent GPU rigs have cost me, and are long since paid off....


 X11 total network hashrate IIRC is quite a bit lower as a "number of D3 units" basis than Scrypt is on a "number of L3+ or A4 units" basis - it'll probably be longer before Scrypt profitability drops to "last year" levels for an L3+ then it will be for a D3, especially with *3* folks making big X11 units now (and who knows what Baikal will come up with to replace their current chip with).

 One kicker in the deck - BW.COM and their Scrypt miner, which is CLAIMED to be 28nm therefore quite a bit cheaper to design and make than 14/16nm that the L3+ and A4 seems to be based on, AND a lot easier to get chips for.
 If BW.COM starts making and/or selling a serious number of THOSE miners, all bets are off.

 Scary part - it's specs are better than the A4 and VERY CLOSE on efficiency AND hashrate to the L3+.
 Perhaps THIS unit is why Bitmain cut L3+ pricing?


 On the other hand, BW.COM had announced plans at one point to sell their Bitcoin miners, then ended up either not doing so or ONLY selling them in bulk to large farms.....



My question is why even delay shipment of D3 till September why not just start shipping now? I highly doubt that products are not completely built so what really is holding back the shipping of them?

They probably started sales after their first pre-production run to make sure their chip design was good and so that they could advertise accurate values. Once confirmed, they setup the sale to customers for batch 1/2 and sent the final order to the production foundry. A 2-month turn-around from the foundry is actually pretty impressive considering how small Bitmain is compared to the others who are ramping up their production at the same foundries (Apple, for example).

their internal mining schedule for built units is in the 1-6 month range, depending on the market. If you think you're getting money-printing machines right off the production line, you're naive.
DING DING DING!!! We have a WINNER!!
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August 01, 2017, 07:40:41 PM
 #496

If Litecoin increases its price, perhaps the L3 is interesting  Roll Eyes
The difficulty of the hash rate is increasing at a far faster pace. It is easily negating the value of the increase in the coin. The larger release of the units hasn't even hit the pools yet. LTC profitability is down almost 50% already from the stated highs. That will get much much worse.

 But it's a TON higher than it was up to the bit price runup, despite the recent hashrate/diff jumps.

 I came VERY close to shutting down my A2 units late last winter because they were very marginal on profitability DESPITE my low electric cost, and I was contemplating adding "more efficient" rigs in their place.
 Right now, they're bloody near my MOST profitable current rigs (though keep in mind I don't build riser-GPU rigs so all my GPU rigs are 3-card).

 They also cost me ballpark HALF what most of my recent GPU rigs have cost me, and are long since paid off....


 X11 total network hashrate IIRC is quite a bit lower as a "number of D3 units" basis than Scrypt is on a "number of L3+ or A4 units" basis - it'll probably be longer before Scrypt profitability drops to "last year" levels for an L3+ then it will be for a D3, especially with *3* folks making big X11 units now (and who knows what Baikal will come up with to replace their current chip with).

 One kicker in the deck - BW.COM and their Scrypt miner, which is CLAIMED to be 28nm therefore quite a bit cheaper to design and make than 14/16nm that the L3+ and A4 seems to be based on, AND a lot easier to get chips for.
 If BW.COM starts making and/or selling a serious number of THOSE miners, all bets are off.

 Scary part - it's specs are better than the A4 and VERY CLOSE on efficiency AND hashrate to the L3+.
 Perhaps THIS unit is why Bitmain cut L3+ pricing?


 On the other hand, BW.COM had announced plans at one point to sell their Bitcoin miners, then ended up either not doing so or ONLY selling them in bulk to large farms.....



My question is why even delay shipment of D3 till September why not just start shipping now? I highly doubt that products are not completely built so what really is holding back the shipping of them?

They probably started sales after their first pre-production run to make sure their chip design was good and so that they could advertise accurate values. Once confirmed, they setup the sale to customers for batch 1/2 and sent the final order to the production foundry. A 2-month turn-around from the foundry is actually pretty impressive considering how small Bitmain is compared to the others who are ramping up their production at the same foundries (Apple, for example).

Youre completely wrong.
Bitmain is mining with this D3s right now and making a decent profit for next 2 month...
I can show it on L3+ example and their HW dates, but dont have time to write an article right now.
No Need for the article. It's common sense. 1) look at the ramp up in difficulty even before they are shipped. 2) They have the best of both worlds. Mine the shit out of it with massive profitability, then sell them like hotcakes to naïve foreigners with candy apple dreams at a fat margin. Who wouldn't do that!?!?
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August 01, 2017, 07:49:45 PM
 #497

Comparison b/n D3 and L3+?  ROI wise, seems obvious D3 is winner.  Any reason to buy L3+?

Depends on how soon you can get either one. L3+ has already sold several batches, and D3 only a few. If you can get a D3 ordered in the next batch then it would be better than getting an L3+ in the next batch.

Only a few or just one batch?

 Technically 2 batches sold on the D3 so far, but the second batch seems to have been tiny, or "leftovers" from the first batch.


 As far as X11 difficulty goes - keep in mind that there ARE other miner companies building and shipping units NOT just Bitmain.

 Baikal for sure when they have stuff TO sell and ship (right now they are "out of stock" on everything but "the Giant").

 iBeLink is supposed to be shipping their new 10+ Ghash unit, and may have started shipping it a week or two back.


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August 01, 2017, 08:35:36 PM
 #498

If Bitmain already got the D3s, its kinda weird that they havent gotten their DASH pool up and running yet! Seems like they are still testing at antpool!
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August 01, 2017, 09:45:56 PM
 #499

Comparison b/n D3 and L3+?  ROI wise, seems obvious D3 is winner.  Any reason to buy L3+?

Depends on how soon you can get either one. L3+ has already sold several batches, and D3 only a few. If you can get a D3 ordered in the next batch then it would be better than getting an L3+ in the next batch.

Only a few or just one batch?

 Technically 2 batches sold on the D3 so far, but the second batch seems to have been tiny, or "leftovers" from the first batch.


 As far as X11 difficulty goes - keep in mind that there ARE other miner companies building and shipping units NOT just Bitmain.

 Baikal for sure when they have stuff TO sell and ship (right now they are "out of stock" on everything but "the Giant").

 iBeLink is supposed to be shipping their new 10+ Ghash unit, and may have started shipping it a week or two back.




Only 1 batch sold, in real terms.

By the time batch 2 delivers, who knows when, I'd do the math based on 25-30% return vs the current hash rate payout.
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August 02, 2017, 02:51:11 AM
 #500

If Litecoin increases its price, perhaps the L3 is interesting  Roll Eyes
The difficulty of the hash rate is increasing at a far faster pace. It is easily negating the value of the increase in the coin. The larger release of the units hasn't even hit the pools yet. LTC profitability is down almost 50% already from the stated highs. That will get much much worse.

 But it's a TON higher than it was up to the bit price runup, despite the recent hashrate/diff jumps.

 I came VERY close to shutting down my A2 units late last winter because they were very marginal on profitability DESPITE my low electric cost, and I was contemplating adding "more efficient" rigs in their place.
 Right now, they're bloody near my MOST profitable current rigs (though keep in mind I don't build riser-GPU rigs so all my GPU rigs are 3-card).

 They also cost me ballpark HALF what most of my recent GPU rigs have cost me, and are long since paid off....


 X11 total network hashrate IIRC is quite a bit lower as a "number of D3 units" basis than Scrypt is on a "number of L3+ or A4 units" basis - it'll probably be longer before Scrypt profitability drops to "last year" levels for an L3+ then it will be for a D3, especially with *3* folks making big X11 units now (and who knows what Baikal will come up with to replace their current chip with).

 One kicker in the deck - BW.COM and their Scrypt miner, which is CLAIMED to be 28nm therefore quite a bit cheaper to design and make than 14/16nm that the L3+ and A4 seems to be based on, AND a lot easier to get chips for.
 If BW.COM starts making and/or selling a serious number of THOSE miners, all bets are off.

 Scary part - it's specs are better than the A4 and VERY CLOSE on efficiency AND hashrate to the L3+.
 Perhaps THIS unit is why Bitmain cut L3+ pricing?


 On the other hand, BW.COM had announced plans at one point to sell their Bitcoin miners, then ended up either not doing so or ONLY selling them in bulk to large farms.....



My question is why even delay shipment of D3 till September why not just start shipping now? I highly doubt that products are not completely built so what really is holding back the shipping of them?

They probably started sales after their first pre-production run to make sure their chip design was good and so that they could advertise accurate values. Once confirmed, they setup the sale to customers for batch 1/2 and sent the final order to the production foundry. A 2-month turn-around from the foundry is actually pretty impressive considering how small Bitmain is compared to the others who are ramping up their production at the same foundries (Apple, for example).

Youre completely wrong.
Bitmain is mining with this D3s right now and making a decent profit for next 2 month...
I can show it on L3+ example and their HW dates, but dont have time to write an article right now.
No Need for the article. It's common sense. 1) look at the ramp up in difficulty even before they are shipped. 2) They have the best of both worlds. Mine the shit out of it with massive profitability, then sell them like hotcakes to naïve foreigners with candy apple dreams at a fat margin. Who wouldn't do that!?!?

It's good for their business but not good for customer impression of Bitmain. While I agree with you... it would be nice to have a single Blockchain business not operate underhanded just once...
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