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Author Topic: [ANN] Bitcoin Cash - Pro on-chain scaling - Cheaper fees  (Read 695225 times)
Crypitol
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November 23, 2018, 04:31:02 PM
 #17241

Can someone point to where it says bitcoin was supposed to be decentralized in the white paper?

Everywhere, but the first is in it's opening argument abstract. Digital signatures provide part of the solution, but the main
benefits are lost if a trusted third party is still required
to prevent double-spending

The revocation of a trusted third or central party is the definition of decentralization.
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November 23, 2018, 04:41:26 PM
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 #17242

Can someone point to where it says bitcoin was supposed to be decentralized in the white paper?

    It doesn't. It just states that it is p2p electronic cash. However, it is much better to have many entities mining rather than fewer entities mining. More entities mining helps ensure that the mining nodes are competing rather than colluding. If you make the barrier for entry too high, you end up with an oligarchy that have a good likelihood of entering into a cartel. (Although it is abundantly clear in BCH case that the two big mining alliances in BCH are actually competing. However, it has resulted in a split, and now each chain is mostly being support by one alliance. I wouldn't go so far as state that it is a "cartel" but it is obvious that both the BCHABC chain is now run by Bitmain and it's allies and BCHSV is now run by nChain and it's allies.)
   Also, in order to be true p2p electronic cash, it would be nice if most people have the option of performing an independent audit of what the miners are actually doing, by running a full node. Although a proper SPV wallet can assure that at least your transactions are valid, it would be nice to be assured that the miners are not colluding and pulling some dubious shit. If you make it prohibitively expensive for anyone to be able to conduct their own audit, we all have to rely on the fiscally capable to keep tabs on the miners. How is that really any better of an alternative than just using banks which are controlled by a central bank of the government?
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November 23, 2018, 07:54:15 PM
 #17243

At the moment, the price of this coin has gone down very much, but I believe that this project will remain one of the most powerful and promising.

Icutgrass205
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November 23, 2018, 07:58:04 PM
 #17244

Can someone point to where it says bitcoin was supposed to be decentralized in the white paper?

    It doesn't. It just states that it is p2p electronic cash. However, it is much better to have many entities mining rather than fewer entities mining. More entities mining helps ensure that the mining nodes are competing rather than colluding. If you make the barrier for entry too high, you end up with an oligarchy that have a good likelihood of entering into a cartel. (Although it is abundantly clear in BCH case that the two big mining alliances in BCH are actually competing. However, it has resulted in a split, and now each chain is mostly being support by one alliance. I wouldn't go so far as state that it is a "cartel" but it is obvious that both the BCHABC chain is now run by Bitmain and it's allies and BCHSV is now run by nChain and it's allies.)
   Also, in order to be true p2p electronic cash, it would be nice if most people have the option of performing an independent audit of what the miners are actually doing, by running a full node. Although a proper SPV wallet can assure that at least your transactions are valid, it would be nice to be assured that the miners are not colluding and pulling some dubious shit. If you make it prohibitively expensive for anyone to be able to conduct their own audit, we all have to rely on the fiscally capable to keep tabs on the miners. How is that really any better of an alternative than just using banks which are controlled by a central bank of the government?

But it seems that temporary centralization of the mining nodes on SV is what is needed to push the global adoption for p2p electronic cash. SV wants to lock down the protocol, SV wants big business and enterprise level use of bitcoin. ABC does not want any of these things, hence the implementation of DSV which effectively makes bitcoin illegal.

Bitcoin, a peer-to-peer electronic cash system for the world. BTC tips are greatly appreciated 35BqJwcycsLDoPrBxmxuh1e4MY7bcDPvGW
bones261
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November 23, 2018, 08:11:17 PM
 #17245

Can someone point to where it says bitcoin was supposed to be decentralized in the white paper?

    It doesn't. It just states that it is p2p electronic cash. However, it is much better to have many entities mining rather than fewer entities mining. More entities mining helps ensure that the mining nodes are competing rather than colluding. If you make the barrier for entry too high, you end up with an oligarchy that have a good likelihood of entering into a cartel. (Although it is abundantly clear in BCH case that the two big mining alliances in BCH are actually competing. However, it has resulted in a split, and now each chain is mostly being support by one alliance. I wouldn't go so far as state that it is a "cartel" but it is obvious that both the BCHABC chain is now run by Bitmain and it's allies and BCHSV is now run by nChain and it's allies.)
   Also, in order to be true p2p electronic cash, it would be nice if most people have the option of performing an independent audit of what the miners are actually doing, by running a full node. Although a proper SPV wallet can assure that at least your transactions are valid, it would be nice to be assured that the miners are not colluding and pulling some dubious shit. If you make it prohibitively expensive for anyone to be able to conduct their own audit, we all have to rely on the fiscally capable to keep tabs on the miners. How is that really any better of an alternative than just using banks which are controlled by a central bank of the government?

But it seems that temporary centralization of the mining nodes on SV is what is needed to push the global adoption for p2p electronic cash. SV wants to lock down the protocol, SV wants big business and enterprise level use of bitcoin. ABC does not want any of these things, hence the implementation of DSV which effectively makes bitcoin illegal.

     My concern with SV is it is obvious that if anyone comes along and has competing ideas, Dr Wright will just threaten to ruin and orphan them. How is that encouraging free and open competition? Agree with us or else?
However, if I really had any skin in BCH, which I don't, I would prefer SV over ABC. Bitmain is the absolute worst. Anything that counters them is welcome.
what is happening
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November 23, 2018, 09:30:56 PM
 #17246

buying BSV dip like crazy
bones261
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November 23, 2018, 09:40:37 PM
 #17247

buying BSV dip like crazy

   You realize Dr Wright doesn't respect people sitting in their pajamas and daytrading. To show your support, get a non-Bitmain Asic and start mining. (Or build platforms that actually give SV use cases.)
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November 23, 2018, 11:55:55 PM
Merited by cAPSLOCK (1), nutildah (1)
 #17248

My concern with SV is it is obvious that if anyone comes along and has competing ideas, Dr Wright will just threaten to ruin and orphan them. How is that encouraging free and open competition? Agree with us or else?
It's because of self-centered people like Dr. Craig that regulations must come to this market. The crypto market already had a bad reputation. Dr. Craig made things much worse with his malicious threats. His intentions are highly questionable. He is not worthy of our support.
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November 24, 2018, 02:21:38 AM
Merited by bones261 (2), cAPSLOCK (1)
 #17249

Can someone point to where it says bitcoin was supposed to be decentralized in the white paper?

From Satoshi's introduction of the whitepaper:

Quote
I've developed a new open source P2P e-cash system called Bitcoin. It's completely decentralized, with no central server or trusted parties, because everything is based on crypto proof instead of trust.

http://p2pfoundation.ning.com/forum/topics/bitcoin-open-source

Its the entire premise of the idea. Creating a DECENTRALIZED currency.

Show's over. Craig lost. Actually, all of BCH lost. Nothing more to see here.





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mk111
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November 24, 2018, 05:47:48 AM
 #17250

BCash is slowly dying.... LOL i mean BTrash!
bones261
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November 24, 2018, 06:03:49 AM
 #17251

Can someone point to where it says bitcoin was supposed to be decentralized in the white paper?

From Satoshi's introduction of the whitepaper:

Quote
I've developed a new open source P2P e-cash system called Bitcoin. It's completely decentralized, with no central server or trusted parties, because everything is based on crypto proof instead of trust.

http://p2pfoundation.ning.com/forum/topics/bitcoin-open-source

Its the entire premise of the idea. Creating a DECENTRALIZED currency.

Show's over. Craig lost. Actually, all of BCH lost. Nothing more to see here.

Thank you so much for this link. It totally debunks the narrative that the white paper doesn't mention the word "decentralized."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FscIgtDJFXg


Last piece of the puzzle.
Mrpumperitis
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November 24, 2018, 07:05:51 AM
 #17252

https://twitter.com/ProfFaustus/status/1065920263093669889
@wormholeSV

Replying to @ProfFaustus
Looking forward to seeing big business begin to use WSV tokens for loyalty points, stocks, and more. #BitcoinSV is business. Wormhole is here to compete.


 
@ProfFaustus

Coin Burning on SV is a donation to miners - thank you


 
@VivienBTC
 
What happenned to the Satoshi that was OK with it being a donation to the community?


@TeamWinnaar

losing keys != burning coins


 
@ProfFaustus

Correct
what is happening
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November 24, 2018, 11:40:03 AM
 #17253

guys buy as much as you can 0.03 minimum
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November 24, 2018, 11:47:51 AM
 #17254

guys buy as much as you can 0.03 minimum

OK who deployed the low-effort SV pump bot?

Real funny guys.
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November 24, 2018, 12:06:44 PM
 #17255

guys buy as much as you can 0.03 minimum

OK who deployed the low-effort SV pump bot?

Real funny guys.

Now whales have been divided in 2 groups this has been turned into war it seems this will continue for long time and only wise people keep making profit from this pump when it will happen.
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November 24, 2018, 12:17:36 PM
 #17256

IMPORTANTTHING DO NOT INVEST MORE THAN YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE
Cryptoxz
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November 24, 2018, 12:19:46 PM
 #17257

Very selfish people created big mess with this Fork, I personally never liked this small s*it coin bch . I really hope that  people believing in the idea Satoshi for decentralization will BOYCOTT the two ugly kids of bch . Both of them have to go into the toilet .
Bowtiesarecool
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November 24, 2018, 12:27:29 PM
 #17258

guys buy as much as you can 0.03 minimum

OK who deployed the low-effort SV pump bot?

Real funny guys.
Pump bot will mean someone actually knows what they were deploying in the first place. Way too much praise already
Icutgrass205
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November 24, 2018, 06:58:38 PM
 #17259

Can someone point to where it says bitcoin was supposed to be decentralized in the white paper?

From Satoshi's introduction of the whitepaper:

Quote
I've developed a new open source P2P e-cash system called Bitcoin. It's completely decentralized, with no central server or trusted parties, because everything is based on crypto proof instead of trust.

http://p2pfoundation.ning.com/forum/topics/bitcoin-open-source

Its the entire premise of the idea. Creating a DECENTRALIZED currency.

Show's over. Craig lost. Actually, all of BCH lost. Nothing more to see here.

Thats nice that you're giving your opinion but, big business doesn't give a shit about your opinion. Enterprises will build technology on the most efficient/secure chain.  When they choose SV what will you say? A currency doesn't need to be decentralized to work p2p globally as cash, Miners process transactions and are the foundation of the network, even if there is a centralization of nodes, they are financially incentivized to cooperate with the network and not make changes to it that would be bad for the system. Even if they were to make changes to the protocol (which SV has said repeatedly that they want to lock down the protocol and only make changes when needed for security/bugs) it would be available for the world to see, and if it were anything that is detrimental to the network guess what? No one will use it, let alone a business.

Bitcoin, a peer-to-peer electronic cash system for the world. BTC tips are greatly appreciated 35BqJwcycsLDoPrBxmxuh1e4MY7bcDPvGW
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November 24, 2018, 08:35:44 PM
 #17260

What a total waste of time, power and energy for both of this sects...
They claimed war to each other and in the end nobody will ever use this 'things' for anything  Roll Eyes

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