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Author Topic: [ANN] Bitcoin Cash - Pro on-chain scaling - Cheaper fees  (Read 695328 times)
jbreher
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November 18, 2018, 06:52:31 PM
 #17121

It is Wright who said he wouldn't accept other chain to survive and will commit every resource to kill it even for months/years. He has already lost the hashwar

From publicly available information, this is how it appears. But what makes you think that all relevant info is public?

I work with what I have.

Maybe SV have won the hashwar and killed ABC... in secret?  Tongue

No, really, I would love to see this escalating soon because it is a great way to put to test some theories and principles of Bitcoin and verify the outcome.

Do you still think Wright/Ayre camp may have some ace up his sleeve?

To me it is all just a bunch of insane bluffing.

Well, they may be bluffing.

Another possibility is that there is something to this Squire/Samsung story, and that SV forces are secretly mining an empty ABC chain, waiting for time of maximum disruption to release it and cause all clients to abandon the current ABC chain.

Who knows? It would be entertaining, though. And instructive.

Even if there were some truth to the Squire/Samsung story (which I strongly don't think so) what you are describing are Wrights threats of attacking another coin (ABC) to cause maximum disruption (and presumably high economic loses) for no legitimate reason. Don't you think that action could have some serious legal ramifications?

Well, from one perspective, such an action would be merely Nakamoto Consensus writ large. In orphaning the ABC chain, possibly repeatedly, the forks would be healed, and there would be a single Bitcoin Cash going forward.

I imagine civil suits may ensue. However, a cursory reading of the last paragraph of the white paper would seem to be dispositive toward dismissing any such suit.

Quote
And, even if it was considered not ilegal.... Don't you think ABC side could do the same to SV if they were willing to? Fortunately it seems like they don't want to go that route, unlike Wright... or this would be a clear case of mutual destruction.

Unknown, but seems unlikely. The hypothetical requires assumption of more SV mining power than ABC has displayed to date. It is certainly possible that ABC has also been mining a secret empty block SV chain as well. Hard to envision, however, where such hash power may have come from. ABC could also start later with greater hash, but that necessarily limits the depth of the potential reorg.

The 'centralized checkpoint' is an interesting twist as well. How much economic weight is running code incorporating this feature?

I was actually kind of surprised that the massive redirect from BTC to ABC came from Bitcoin.com. I had envisioned it coming from Bitmain. Perhaps Bitmain's hands are tied due to the pending IPO?

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There are several different types of Bitcoin clients. Hybrid server-assisted clients like Electrum get a lot of their network information from centralized servers, but they also check the server's results using blockchain header data. This is perhaps somewhat more secure than either server-assisted clients or header-only clients.
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jbreher
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November 18, 2018, 06:54:09 PM
 #17122

So you choose to ignore the part where Craig recently said ...
He had plans to steal users funds.."sunken treasure"  (User funds, is all of us...long term holders,dev funds, investors money, exchanges,whales wallets...)
and wanted to make users pay more than once to store info on the blockchain...like paying for gas on ETH.
Do you understand this?

Sure, I understand it. You don't seem to understand it however. For your characterizations are hyperbole.

Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.

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bitserve
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November 18, 2018, 07:34:28 PM
Merited by bones261 (2)
 #17123


Unknown, but seems unlikely. The hypothetical requires assumption of more SV mining power than ABC has displayed to date. It is certainly possible that ABC has also been mining a secret empty block SV chain as well. Hard to envision, however, where such hash power may have come from. ABC could also start later with greater hash, but that necessarily limits the depth of the potential reorg.

The 'centralized checkpoint' is an interesting twist as well. How much economic weight is running code incorporating this feature?

I was actually kind of surprised that the massive redirect from BTC to ABC came from Bitcoin.com. I had envisioned it coming from Bitmain. Perhaps Bitmain's hands are tied due to the pending IPO?


No, I don't think their hands are tied at all. That's another of Wright's ridiculous statements. Bitmain has a HUGE investment in BCH assets. Not only they can, as a business, do whatever deemed necessary to protect that investment but they are compelled to. As long as you can reasonably justify (even if wrong in the end) the decision it is ok from a corporate/shareholders perspective.

Also, not only Antpool has joined the party directly but we don't know if they have redirected some of their hash to Bitcoin.com pool. Also, we don't know if they are contributing to some of Bitcoin.com expenses on loses (compensation that could be in BTC, BCH, USD or even free machines and/or future discounts).

To me there is not much difference using "owned" vs rented hash... in the end it is all a cost you are willing to assume. And in none of both cases it implies a long term commitment, as you are equally losing money for spending the hash in loss until you can't or don't want anymore.

It is hard to guess where additional hashpower could come from for SV, but it is not hard at all to guess multiple sources where hashpower can come from for ABC:

- From their actual KNOWN hashpower currently mining BTC and other SHA256 coins.
- From newly produced not yet sold machines. They could even sell them on discount to other miners in exchange of mining deals of ABC.

The thing is, BCH was a minority chain of BTC. Satoshi already warned about the most probable fate of any minority chain. For some reason, it has been artificially allowed to coexist along BTC besides sharing the same PoW algo where BTC is king. That was always risky for reasons now evident.

About the checkpoints... I think all exchanges are using it, what I don't know is how frequent the checkpoint is. If it were me, I would set a checkpoint with a frequency higher than the minimum confirmation requirement to avoid double spends (which is probably the biggest fear of exchanges).

19VBmRQVqrtNTGiwngZutwREagcKxJgVZM
chomcv
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November 19, 2018, 12:51:51 AM
 #17124

so what should i buy now? bch abc or  bch sv?  Grin which one  will go to moon?
Icutgrass205
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November 19, 2018, 01:00:39 AM
 #17125

so what should i buy now? bch abc or  bch sv?  Grin which one  will go to moon?

SV for the long term investment, it will scale better. Locked down protocol means more enterprises will be confident in building something on top of the protocol. Unlike ABC who's devs want to make changes to the protocol every 6 months.

Bitcoin, a peer-to-peer electronic cash system for the world. BTC tips are greatly appreciated 35BqJwcycsLDoPrBxmxuh1e4MY7bcDPvGW
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November 19, 2018, 03:18:53 AM
 #17126

so what should i buy now? bch abc or  bch sv?  Grin which one  will go to moon?

SV for the long term investment, it will scale better. Locked down protocol means more enterprises will be confident in building something on top of the protocol. Unlike ABC who's devs want to make changes to the protocol every 6 months.

but i think  a battle between Bitcoin SV and Bitcoin ABC , is currently trailing in the battle for the largest share of the network’s hashing power and right now, ABC controls BCH , bch abc will win
Icutgrass205
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November 19, 2018, 05:08:11 AM
 #17127

so what should i buy now? bch abc or  bch sv?  Grin which one  will go to moon?

SV for the long term investment, it will scale better. Locked down protocol means more enterprises will be confident in building something on top of the protocol. Unlike ABC who's devs want to make changes to the protocol every 6 months.

but i think  a battle between Bitcoin SV and Bitcoin ABC , is currently trailing in the battle for the largest share of the network’s hashing power and right now, ABC controls BCH , bch abc will win

Well think about it this way, with DSV there comes legal issues. SV is the closest thing to the original bitcoin available. Remember also that a lot of the hash power on ABC is rented hash power from btc mining pools. SV can scale for the world, and as for the hash rate. Squire mining will supposedly be releasing new asics next year that are 50% more efficient than anything on the market. That could be rumor though, I guess only time will tell.

Bitcoin, a peer-to-peer electronic cash system for the world. BTC tips are greatly appreciated 35BqJwcycsLDoPrBxmxuh1e4MY7bcDPvGW
Icutgrass205
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November 19, 2018, 05:35:34 AM
 #17128

Could someone here please tell me what coin is the real Bcash is ?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1696712.50;imode


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xhomerx10
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November 19, 2018, 07:16:22 AM
 #17129

Icutgrass205 seems to use a lot of misplaced commas.



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November 19, 2018, 07:43:45 AM
 #17130

Remember also that a lot of the hash power on ABC is rented hash power from btc mining pools. SV can scale for the world, and as for the hash rate. Squire mining will supposedly be releasing new asics next year that are 50% more efficient than anything on the market. That could be rumor though, I guess only time will tell.

Frankly it doesn't matter if SV has more hash rate at this point. It's already lost the battle. It will be its own coin. The exchanges aren't about to backtrack on their decisions -- there's no need. They're comfortable with ABC being BCH. Nobody wants anything to do with Crag's fork of an altcoin. He's revealed himself to be a whiny little bitch. Now he's resorting to threatening lawsuits -- the sign of a true loser. You can argue with me until you're blue in the face, and I have but one word for you: scoreboard.

http://hashwars.cash/
hv_
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November 19, 2018, 08:03:52 AM
 #17131

About the stable Bitcoin protocol and building things on top of it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YG8gqBd3Mg

Carpe diem  -  understand the White Paper and mine honest.
Fix real world issues: Check out b-vote.com
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hv_
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November 19, 2018, 08:08:20 AM
 #17132

The nature of Bitcoin is such that once version 0.1 was released, the core design was set in stone for the rest of its lifetime...

So 'splain me The SegWit Omnibus Changeset then?

The funny part is that Bitcoin Cash in the form of SV is the closest thing to a Bitcoin Protocol 0.1 that we've had in almost a decade.

Yes, and maybe the only legal soon since it is 100% following the WP and the financial terms and conditions of its purpose.

All other add-on-coins might badly run into regulatory issues.

Inform first, before entering financial markets  - strongest controlled field on the planet.

Carpe diem  -  understand the White Paper and mine honest.
Fix real world issues: Check out b-vote.com
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November 19, 2018, 10:16:38 AM
 #17133

^, No ,
Craig had planned to steal users funds.."sunken treasure"
Craig wanted to make users pay more than once to store info on the blockchain...
This is why Craig wont make a new coin, he cant build and he would have nothing to steal...

Craig would have destroyed everything we have all worked hard to create...



If you think craig is Satoshi..you are a shill or stupid.

ok who said he was Satoshi?
I said if you think it...

Not saying you said it,
But many sv supporters say it...including Craig lol



Do you have any facts to dispute the facts found in the Kleiman Vs. Wright court documents?
No, i dont need them to make think he is Satoshi...
I know he is NOT Satoshi....
My point exactly, you stay in la la land buddy
Your the one thats lost....good luck helping shill for Craig, your only making a fool of yourself.


This bizarre has war of the bcash forks ABC and SV is draining the blood of the whole crypto market. I can't see any winners here, it's complete nonsense. The miners of the both chains are incurring tremendous losses on daily basis.
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November 19, 2018, 10:47:18 AM
 #17134

This bizarre has war of the bcash forks ABC and SV is draining the blood of the whole crypto market. I can't see any winners here, it's complete nonsense. The miners of the both chains are incurring tremendous losses on daily basis.

Ver and Wright are seemingly sacrificing what remaining credibility they might have had with the crypto community to battle one another. It seems to be a war of egos more than anything else. But I concur: not good for crypto. It's a lose/lose/lose.

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November 19, 2018, 10:59:59 AM
 #17135

Can someone explain reasoning behind why CSW believes ABC changes would make BCH illegal, has he spelled out in detail what the problem is?
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November 19, 2018, 11:52:15 AM
 #17136

Can someone explain reasoning behind why CSW believes ABC changes would make BCH illegal, has he spelled out in detail what the problem is?

You can read his own words in all their idiotic glory here:

https://medium.com/@craig_10243/drugs-fraud-and-murder-ddf12208ae8b

Basically he claims that by introducing an oracle-capable OP code Bitcoin Cash can be used for gambling, the Silk Road 2.0 and even murder-for-hire services. It's all bullshit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/9vxc7w/illegal_gambling_futures_markets_on_murder_and/

Perhaps most ironically he doesn't mind that his #1 partner Calvin Ayre made his fortune from running a gambling site, Bodog.
cAPSLOCK
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November 19, 2018, 04:02:23 PM
 #17137

Icutgrass205 seems to use a lot of misplaced commas.



See bolded. Wink


Supply and demand, people wont be buying BTC when they realize there is a major routing flaw with the lightning network, and that it can't scale globally. You gonna pay ridiculously high fees to send your BTC back and forth? No miners=no bitcoin its that simple, why would anyone in their right mind keep mining a dead coin at a profit loss.

That's pretty funny, really.  It is a question you and Calvin should be asking yourselves right this moment. Smiley
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November 19, 2018, 04:14:25 PM
 #17138

Remember also that a lot of the hash power on ABC is rented hash power from btc mining pools. SV can scale for the world, and as for the hash rate. Squire mining will supposedly be releasing new asics next year that are 50% more efficient than anything on the market. That could be rumor though, I guess only time will tell.

Frankly it doesn't matter if SV has more hash rate at this point. It's already lost the battle. It will be its own coin. The exchanges aren't about to backtrack on their decisions -- there's no need. They're comfortable with ABC being BCH. Nobody wants anything to do with Crag's fork of an altcoin. He's revealed himself to be a whiny little bitch. Now he's resorting to threatening lawsuits -- the sign of a true loser. You can argue with me until you're blue in the face, and I have but one word for you: scoreboard.

http://hashwars.cash/

You can troll on these threads all you want, but SV will win in the long run. You think that BCHABC will be able to function illegally with DSV? Think again, the regulators are coming.

Bitcoin, a peer-to-peer electronic cash system for the world. BTC tips are greatly appreciated 35BqJwcycsLDoPrBxmxuh1e4MY7bcDPvGW
Icutgrass205
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November 19, 2018, 04:15:25 PM
 #17139

Icutgrass205 seems to use a lot of misplaced commas.



See bolded. Wink


Supply and demand, people wont be buying BTC when they realize there is a major routing flaw with the lightning network, and that it can't scale globally. You gonna pay ridiculously high fees to send your BTC back and forth? No miners=no bitcoin its that simple, why would anyone in their right mind keep mining a dead coin at a profit loss.

That's pretty funny, really.  It is a question you and Calvin should be asking yourselves right this moment. Smiley

The core trolls are too many to count, would you like me to link you several sources that prove BTC is no longer bitcoin? I hope you don't plan on holding btc in the years to come Smiley

Bitcoin, a peer-to-peer electronic cash system for the world. BTC tips are greatly appreciated 35BqJwcycsLDoPrBxmxuh1e4MY7bcDPvGW
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November 19, 2018, 04:18:12 PM
 #17140

^, No ,
Craig had planned to steal users funds.."sunken treasure"
Craig wanted to make users pay more than once to store info on the blockchain...
This is why Craig wont make a new coin, he cant build and he would have nothing to steal...

Craig would have destroyed everything we have all worked hard to create...



If you think craig is Satoshi..you are a shill or stupid.

ok who said he was Satoshi?
I said if you think it...

Not saying you said it,
But many sv supporters say it...including Craig lol



Do you have any facts to dispute the facts found in the Kleiman Vs. Wright court documents?
No, i dont need them to make think he is Satoshi...
I know he is NOT Satoshi....
My point exactly, you stay in la la land buddy
Your the one thats lost....good luck helping shill for Craig, your only making a fool of yourself.


This bizarre has war of the bcash forks ABC and SV is draining the blood of the whole crypto market. I can't see any winners here, it's complete nonsense. The miners of the both chains are incurring tremendous losses on daily basis.

CSW is putting millions of his own dollars mining at a loss for SV. While Roger and ABC just borrow hash from BTC pool when they need it

Bitcoin, a peer-to-peer electronic cash system for the world. BTC tips are greatly appreciated 35BqJwcycsLDoPrBxmxuh1e4MY7bcDPvGW
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