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Author Topic: [ANN] Bitcoin Cash - Pro on-chain scaling - Cheaper fees  (Read 642649 times)
jbreher
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September 28, 2018, 05:18:58 PM
 #16421


Second post in that thread says it all:

Grow a little bit, you post some photos of a guy having great time and you will make him look evil, this is silly AF

Bitcoin sonner or later will need an upgrade (HF there is no other choice) so one day or another people will have to admit another currency as the new bitcoin simple as that  

It's like using an Apple 2 instead of a Macbook Pro just because it's the first computer with GUI lol come on, Bitcoin is unusable right now, implementing micro payment services are impossible on BTC and don't tell me BTC is a store of value like gold and blabla

Satoshi's vision was to make a P2P cash system, nothing more nothing less

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jbreher
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September 28, 2018, 05:22:50 PM
 #16422


Just a few questions I have. BCH was created because of the block size issue correct? How was bitcoin every supposed to achieve global adoption at a 1MB block size limit? Secondly, in the Kleiman Vs. Wright court documents, Craig Wright and David Kleiman are pointed out to be satoshi nakamoto. If BCH is faster and cheaper, why is it not better than Bitcoin then? Seems that the only argument people have for me against that is that BTC is the original and BCH is a copy.
you my friend need to do a lot more research

I have been researching this non stop and there are too many conflicting opinions, let me ask you this. If 5 billion people are demanding BCH to use as a currency every day, wouldn't that make the value of it skyrocket? Seems to me thats what bch wants to do. Also, there is a difference in what ABC wants to do with BCH than the direction Nchain wants to go with it. I know im missing alot of information, and I may have some facts wrong, but im still a noob and im still learning. I know there were more people involved in the satoshi nakamoto group but according to the legal documents in Kleiman V Wright, those two are the brains behind it, wright being the economical brain and kleiman being the technical brain if im not mistaken. Unless of course they stole the idea from someone else?


Im not trying to debate, I will clarify again that I am a noob and have only been in the crypto space for about a year. I have many friends who have been in it since 2009 but they all have conflicting opinions with facts to back them up about the whole BTC/BCH feud. Im just trying to clear up the fog.

Well, you're thinking for yourself -- that's good. You'll note that people like BitcoinPsycho never offer up any reasoning to back up their claims. He/she is just trying to browbeat you into toeing the Core narrative line.

Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.

I've been convicted of heresy. Convicted by a mere known extortionist. Read my Trust for details.
bitcoinPsycho
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September 28, 2018, 05:32:59 PM
 #16423


Just a few questions I have. BCH was created because of the block size issue correct? How was bitcoin every supposed to achieve global adoption at a 1MB block size limit? Secondly, in the Kleiman Vs. Wright court documents, Craig Wright and David Kleiman are pointed out to be satoshi nakamoto. If BCH is faster and cheaper, why is it not better than Bitcoin then? Seems that the only argument people have for me against that is that BTC is the original and BCH is a copy.
you my friend need to do a lot more research

I have been researching this non stop and there are too many conflicting opinions, let me ask you this. If 5 billion people are demanding BCH to use as a currency every day, wouldn't that make the value of it skyrocket? Seems to me thats what bch wants to do. Also, there is a difference in what ABC wants to do with BCH than the direction Nchain wants to go with it. I know im missing alot of information, and I may have some facts wrong, but im still a noob and im still learning. I know there were more people involved in the satoshi nakamoto group but according to the legal documents in Kleiman V Wright, those two are the brains behind it, wright being the economical brain and kleiman being the technical brain if im not mistaken. Unless of course they stole the idea from someone else?


Im not trying to debate, I will clarify again that I am a noob and have only been in the crypto space for about a year. I have many friends who have been in it since 2009 but they all have conflicting opinions with facts to back them up about the whole BTC/BCH feud. Im just trying to clear up the fog.

Well, you're thinking for yourself -- that's good. You'll note that people like BitcoinPsycho never offer up any reasoning to back up their claims. He/she is just trying to browbeat you into toeing the Core narrative line.
lol . I hold BTC  and thats enough reason. people have to do there own research. all the arguments are in the public domain. I hold bch in utter contempt so don't hold any . simple

THE NEXT 24 YEARS ARE CRITICAL
bones261
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September 28, 2018, 07:45:02 PM
Last edit: September 28, 2018, 07:56:54 PM by bones261
Merited by bitcoinPsycho (1)
 #16424


Just a few questions I have. BCH was created because of the block size issue correct? How was bitcoin every supposed to achieve global adoption at a 1MB block size limit? Secondly, in the Kleiman Vs. Wright court documents, Craig Wright and David Kleiman are pointed out to be satoshi nakamoto. If BCH is faster and cheaper, why is it not better than Bitcoin then? Seems that the only argument people have for me against that is that BTC is the original and BCH is a copy.

Here is an excerpt from the bitcoin white paper:

Quote
 Proof-of-work  is essentially one-CPU-one-vote. The majority decision is represented by the longest chain, which has the greatest proof-of-work effort invested
in it.

If BCH had not implemented replay protection, it would have been orphaned out of existence long ago. BTC still has the most hash rate invested in it. When and if things start turning around, BCH can claim that they are indeed bitcoin.

Now one can argue that BTC has lost it's way and has strayed far from what is outlined from the original satoshi vision. However, it is very clear from the whitepaper that the chain with the greatest proof of work is always the most legit. Prefer BCH over BTC? Then get an ASIC and mine BCH. You may also attempt to do something that will make BCH more attractive to miners. Using BCH contributes because your fees help attract miners. Also, buying BCH contributes because it pushes the market price a little higher making it more attractive to miners. In the end, the miners have the votes. Get used to it. That is Nakamoto consensus.

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jbreher
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September 28, 2018, 08:01:51 PM
 #16425

Here is an excerpt from the bitcoin white paper:

Quote
 Proof-of-work  is essentially one-CPU-one-vote. The majority decision is represented by the longest chain, which has the greatest proof-of-work effort invested
in it.

If BCH had not implemented replay protection, it would have been orphaned out of existence long ago.

Well, no. Replay protection is not a feature necessary for maintaining a chain split.

Quote
BTC still has the most hash rate invested in it. When and if things start turning around, BCH can claim that they are indeed bitcoin.

There are many perspectives from which you can view which is 'The Real Bitcoin'. Alas, I subscribe to a definition that works against where my heart is. As I dearly wish BCH was the market leader, but I must currently cede that position to BTC.

That said, I do understand the arguments that claim BCH is The Real Bitcoin, and find that they are at least rational.

Quote
Now one can argue that BTC has lost it's way and has strayed far from what is outlined from the original satoshi vision.

Word.

Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.

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Icutgrass205
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September 28, 2018, 08:12:30 PM
 #16426

So then why do so many people in the crypto community trash CSW and call him a scammer when there is legally verified evidence that he was a part of satoshi?

Bitcoin, a peer-to-peer electronic cash system for the world. BTC tips are greatly appreciated 35BqJwcycsLDoPrBxmxuh1e4MY7bcDPvGW
bones261
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September 28, 2018, 09:07:57 PM
 #16427

So then why do so many people in the crypto community trash CSW and call him a scammer when there is legally verified evidence that he was a part of satoshi?

CSW legal team filed a motion to dismiss. One of the things they are claiming is that CSW does not have the private keys for Kleiman's coins.
https://www.coindesk.com/craig-wright-moves-dismiss-shakedown-bitcoin-lawsuit/


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September 28, 2018, 09:24:36 PM
 #16428

So then why do so many people in the crypto community trash CSW and call him a scammer when there is legally verified evidence that he was a part of satoshi?

CSW legal team filed a motion to dismiss. One of the things they are claiming is that CSW does not have the private keys for Kleiman's coins.
https://www.coindesk.com/craig-wright-moves-dismiss-shakedown-bitcoin-lawsuit/



So then it's "case closed". How can people in the crypto community who call him "faketoshi" still have credibility when the information that proves he was in fact one half of satoshi is publicly available to everyone?

Bitcoin, a peer-to-peer electronic cash system for the world. BTC tips are greatly appreciated 35BqJwcycsLDoPrBxmxuh1e4MY7bcDPvGW
bones261
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September 28, 2018, 09:51:36 PM
 #16429

So then why do so many people in the crypto community trash CSW and call him a scammer when there is legally verified evidence that he was a part of satoshi?

CSW legal team filed a motion to dismiss. One of the things they are claiming is that CSW does not have the private keys for Kleiman's coins.
https://www.coindesk.com/craig-wright-moves-dismiss-shakedown-bitcoin-lawsuit/



So then it's "case closed". How can people in the crypto community who call him "faketoshi" still have credibility when the information that proves he was in fact one half of satoshi is publicly available to everyone?

The validity of the court documents have not be confirmed by any court ruling or settlement between the parties involved. CSW has made it pretty clear that he will not be providing any conclusive evidence that he is indeed Satoshi. All he would need to do is sign a message using the private key for any of the addresses the coinbase reward went to in the first 100 blocks. It's not that difficult unless he lost the private keys.
However, loosing the private keys would appear to contradict Satoshi's advise.
Sigh... why delete a wallet instead of moving it aside and keeping the old copy just in case?  You should never delete a wallet.
One of the possibilities would be that Kleiman had access to all of the private keys and encrypted them, leaving everyone in the dark on what the password was.

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sirsplashalot
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September 28, 2018, 10:46:18 PM
 #16430

So then why do so many people in the crypto community trash CSW and call him a scammer when there is legally verified evidence that he was a part of satoshi?

CSW legal team filed a motion to dismiss. One of the things they are claiming is that CSW does not have the private keys for Kleiman's coins.
https://www.coindesk.com/craig-wright-moves-dismiss-shakedown-bitcoin-lawsuit/



So then it's "case closed". How can people in the crypto community who call him "faketoshi" still have credibility when the information that proves he was in fact one half of satoshi is publicly available to everyone?

Because at least half of the cryptocurrency community is misinformed and valid sources of news have yet to be established, this is why independent research is very important.

Bitcoin SV (BSV) - A P2P Electronic Cash System Built for Everyday Global Use.
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bones261
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September 28, 2018, 10:59:57 PM
 #16431

So then why do so many people in the crypto community trash CSW and call him a scammer when there is legally verified evidence that he was a part of satoshi?

CSW legal team filed a motion to dismiss. One of the things they are claiming is that CSW does not have the private keys for Kleiman's coins.
https://www.coindesk.com/craig-wright-moves-dismiss-shakedown-bitcoin-lawsuit/



So then it's "case closed". How can people in the crypto community who call him "faketoshi" still have credibility when the information that proves he was in fact one half of satoshi is publicly available to everyone?

Because at least half of the cryptocurrency community is misinformed and valid sources of news have yet to be established, this is why independent research is very important.

Is that why CSW himself retweeted this tweet of mine? https://twitter.com/bones261/status/1035621686140391426 Because I am so misinformed? Simple fact of the matter is CSW does not wish to confirm or deny that he is indeed Satoshi at this time. Respect his wishes and leave it alone.

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sirsplashalot
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September 28, 2018, 11:19:24 PM
 #16432

So then why do so many people in the crypto community trash CSW and call him a scammer when there is legally verified evidence that he was a part of satoshi?

CSW legal team filed a motion to dismiss. One of the things they are claiming is that CSW does not have the private keys for Kleiman's coins.
https://www.coindesk.com/craig-wright-moves-dismiss-shakedown-bitcoin-lawsuit/



So then it's "case closed". How can people in the crypto community who call him "faketoshi" still have credibility when the information that proves he was in fact one half of satoshi is publicly available to everyone?

Because at least half of the cryptocurrency community is misinformed and valid sources of news have yet to be established, this is why independent research is very important.

Is that why CSW himself retweeted this tweet of mine? https://twitter.com/bones261/status/1035621686140391426 Because I am so misinformed? Simple fact of the matter is CSW does not wish to confirm or deny that he is indeed Satoshi at this time. Respect his wishes and leave it alone.

Not at all. Its in no ones best legal interest to claim the Satoshi title. I believe the 'faketoshi' references are unbacked claims with respect to craig wright. Gavin Andresen claims to be convinced beyond reasonable doubt whereas the rest cannot constitute that as valid proof and then there is the 'misinformed side' where i've seen people go as far as to claim that Vitaliks rant against Craig Wright constitutes 'proof,' when such claims are no more than opinions.

I very much respect his claim to leave it alone.

What I do find interesting about Bitcoin is that there is whitepaper to begin with. This whitepaper is in academic format, very much as Craig Wright would have had it as a lifelong academic with multiple masters and doctorate degrees.

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September 28, 2018, 11:28:56 PM
 #16433

Not to mention the emails sent from CSW to Kleiman before the white paper was even released.

This is a quote from the main document of the court case, which can be found here https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/6309656/1/kleiman-v-wright/


"In March 2008, just a few months before Satoshi’s paper on the Bitcoin protocol
was published, Craig wrote Dave an email stating: “I need your help editing a
paper I am going to release later this year. I have been working on a new form
of electronic money. Bit cash, Bitcoin . . . [y]ou are always there for me Dave.
I want you to be part of it all.”

Bitcoin, a peer-to-peer electronic cash system for the world. BTC tips are greatly appreciated 35BqJwcycsLDoPrBxmxuh1e4MY7bcDPvGW
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September 29, 2018, 02:24:21 AM
 #16434

Not to mention the emails sent from CSW to Kleiman before the white paper was even released.

This is a quote from the main document of the court case, which can be found here https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/6309656/1/kleiman-v-wright/


"In March 2008, just a few months before Satoshi’s paper on the Bitcoin protocol
was published, Craig wrote Dave an email stating: “I need your help editing a
paper I am going to release later this year. I have been working on a new form
of electronic money. Bit cash, Bitcoin . . . [y]ou are always there for me Dave.
I want you to be part of it all.”

Ever heard of something called "backdating"?

In the same document you just linked:

"It is unclear whether Craig, Dave, and/or both created Bitcoin."

If Craig was Satoshi, why would he need to pull an elaborate hoax on Gavin Andresen where he presented keys that were already publicly available, embedded in the blockchain? Seems like he could have used any one of perhaps hundreds of other keys Satoshi should be in possession of.

Besides, Satoshi Nakamoto was never the ill-mannered, egocentric, conniving drama queen bedwetter that CSW is every day.

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boomboom
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September 29, 2018, 04:23:46 AM
 #16435

Not to mention the emails sent from CSW to Kleiman before the white paper was even released.

This is a quote from the main document of the court case, which can be found here https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/6309656/1/kleiman-v-wright/


"In March 2008, just a few months before Satoshi’s paper on the Bitcoin protocol
was published, Craig wrote Dave an email stating: “I need your help editing a
paper I am going to release later this year. I have been working on a new form
of electronic money. Bit cash, Bitcoin . . . [y]ou are always there for me Dave.
I want you to be part of it all.”

Ever heard of something called "backdating"?

In the same document you just linked:

"It is unclear whether Craig, Dave, and/or both created Bitcoin."

If Craig was Satoshi, why would he need to pull an elaborate hoax on Gavin Andresen where he presented keys that were already publicly available, embedded in the blockchain? Seems like he could have used any one of perhaps hundreds of other keys Satoshi should be in possession of.

Besides, Satoshi Nakamoto was never the ill-mannered, egocentric, conniving drama queen bedwetter that CSW is every day.

So, you think Gavin meets Craig in person and he offers the same evidence as everybody else? You don't think Gavin would have used personal communications he had with satoshi to check if Craig was legit, like ask for dates and contents of emails and forum messages? Gavin wasn't fooled, and afaik witnessed in person Craig using satoshi's priv keys.

Craig wants the situation we have, many doubters, he likes the uncertainty.
nutildah
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September 29, 2018, 04:31:39 AM
 #16436

So, you think Gavin meets Craig in person and he offers the same evidence as everybody else? You don't think Gavin would have used personal communications he had with satoshi to check if Craig was legit, like ask for dates and contents of emails and forum messages? Gavin wasn't fooled, and afaik witnessed in person Craig using satoshi's priv keys.

You're being bullheaded about the fact that Craig obtained the keys from the bitcoin blockchain. He used recycled keys that were out in the public and obtainable by anybody. Its impossible for Gavin to have communicated with Satoshi about the matter because he hadn't communicated with him in over 4 (maybe even 5) years by that point.

Craig wants the situation we have, many doubters, he likes the uncertainty.

Nobody gives a flying fuck what Craig wants. He's clearly a sociopathic narcissist and he hasn't contributed anything of note to the crypto community in his pursuit of even more money. He's an extremely crass, divisive figure hellbent on fooling the weak-minded into believing he is Satoshi for purpose of quenching his insatiable ego.

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boomboom
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September 29, 2018, 04:49:13 AM
 #16437

So, you think Gavin meets Craig in person and he offers the same evidence as everybody else? You don't think Gavin would have used personal communications he had with satoshi to check if Craig was legit, like ask for dates and contents of emails and forum messages? Gavin wasn't fooled, and afaik witnessed in person Craig using satoshi's priv keys.

You're being bullheaded about the fact that Craig obtained the keys from the bitcoin blockchain. He used recycled keys that were out in the public and obtainable by anybody. Its impossible for Gavin to have communicated with Satoshi about the matter because he hadn't communicated with him in over 4 (maybe even 5) years by that point.

Craig wants the situation we have, many doubters, he likes the uncertainty.

Nobody gives a flying fuck what Craig wants. He's clearly a sociopathic narcissist and he hasn't contributed anything of note to the crypto community in his pursuit of even more money. He's an extremely crass, divisive figure hellbent on fooling the weak-minded into believing he is Satoshi for purpose of quenching his insatiable ego.

I have no idea why Craig chose to prove to Gavin conclusively in private using methods that satisfied Gavin, and then use a method in public that obviously attracts the criticism you and others make, but that is what he did. Gavin and Matonis are not idiots, and not profiting from craig afaik, and I am sure the proof he used in person included many aspects including bitcoin priv keys not used publicly, and probably also details of emails and other communications.

Craig wants people like you to do exactly what you are doing, and people like Gavin to know he is satoshi, but why ... Only he knows.

None of us knows the proof gavin saw, all we know is it satisfiec him, and then craig chose to make his public proofs dodgy, but I suspect all will be revealed eventually.
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September 29, 2018, 05:37:30 AM
 #16438

Nice MoneyButton improvements

https://twitter.com/money_button/status/1045400546633383936

Carpe diem  -  cut the down side  -  be anti-fragile - don't dillute Bitcoin - mine honest!
Memo: 1AHUYNJKPfY7PjVK1hNQFo5LrdGixuiybw  -  https://metanet.icu/
The simple way is the genius way - in Moore's Law and Satoshi's WP we trust.
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September 29, 2018, 07:10:54 AM
 #16439

None of us knows the proof gavin saw, all we know is it satisfiec him, and then craig chose to make his public proofs dodgy, but I suspect all will be revealed eventually.

Actually its all very, very public and very easy to understand how Craig was pulling over a fast one on poor Gavin. The debate of whether Craig is a charlatan or not has long been over with. Everybody knows he was lying. Its facetious to pretend its still up in the air.

https://www.ccn.com/gavin-andersen-craig-wright-blog-mistake/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qLI3VIHuKU

Besides, never in any of his public communications was Satoshi 1/10th as big an asshole as CSW is on any given day. And unless CSW has an opposite sleep pattern from 99% of all human beings on earth their sleep cycles do not match up. The reasons why CSW is NOT Satoshi are many and varied and its fallacious of you to continue pretending any doubt remains in the matter.

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boomboom
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September 29, 2018, 07:49:45 AM
 #16440

None of us knows the proof gavin saw, all we know is it satisfiec him, and then craig chose to make his public proofs dodgy, but I suspect all will be revealed eventually.

Actually its all very, very public and very easy to understand how Craig was pulling over a fast one on poor Gavin. The debate of whether Craig is a charlatan or not has long been over with. Everybody knows he was lying. Its facetious to pretend its still up in the air.

https://www.ccn.com/gavin-andersen-craig-wright-blog-mistake/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qLI3VIHuKU

Besides, never in any of his public communications was Satoshi 1/10th as big an asshole as CSW is on any given day. And unless CSW has an opposite sleep pattern from 99% of all human beings on earth their sleep cycles do not match up. The reasons why CSW is NOT Satoshi are many and varied and its fallacious of you to continue pretending any doubt remains in the matter.

Andresen still thinks CSW is satoshi, and states clearly he wont discuss any of the private personal details that convinced him, as I said before CSW wants guys like you to discredit and doubt him, and you're doing what he wants. He deliberately made the public proof in his blog unbelievable, and his private proof to Andresen believable, all Gavin says now is he regrets getting dragged into the find satoshi game where CSW is for some reason happy to antagonise guys like you. I agree with Gavin though, in retrospect he should not have posted his supportive blog until after craig made a compelling public proof. CSW wants to be the bad guy in bitcoin, who knows why, but he does.
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