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Author Topic: [ANN] Bitcoin Cash - Pro on-chain scaling - Cheaper fees  (Read 641681 times)
Mrpumperitis
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November 12, 2018, 06:48:17 PM
 #16881

Anyone remember this...
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1bq4ia/for_the_love_of_bitcoin_stop_mining_at_btc_guild/


DanielTaylor
302 points
·
5 years ago
·
edited 5 years ago
It doesn't matter if they're the good guys and say they won't abuse their power. If BTC Guild reaches +50% hashing power, they'll virtually control the network, be able to create forks, double spend or paralize Bitcoin.

My local banker also says he's a good guy and I shouldn't worry about him. But that's not the point because Bitcoin is supposed to be decentralized, not "centralized with a good guy in charge".

vocatus
43 points
·
5 years ago
The problem with Bitcoin (and I say this as a miner and advocate of it) is that eventually the network will converge on a small operating block of people, probably using large ASIC farms. It has to - it's how the incentive system works out. It's an arms race to the most powerful farm, and those with the most capital to invest will push everyone else out. At that point it is no longer "decentralized" but controlled by a few (single?) powerful entities - those who could control the compute power.

I got red trust because i speak the truth....This thread shows why many long term users are being tagged red, ...https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2399315.msg24593043#msg24593043 ,nullius and lauda are scammers.Bitcoin cash is the real upgrade bitcoin needed, not segwit.
How The Banks Bought Bitcoin  The Lightning Network - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g&feature=youtu.be&repost= Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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Mrpumperitis
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November 12, 2018, 07:45:09 PM
 #16882

afaicr....

one of the biggest selling points for btc was its decentralized...this is what gave btc value as more people bought into the idea....

Btc Guild stopped adding new miners...
They did it for the good of bitcoin and prevent losing value.

I got red trust because i speak the truth....This thread shows why many long term users are being tagged red, ...https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2399315.msg24593043#msg24593043 ,nullius and lauda are scammers.Bitcoin cash is the real upgrade bitcoin needed, not segwit.
How The Banks Bought Bitcoin  The Lightning Network - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g&feature=youtu.be&repost= Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
notblox1
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November 12, 2018, 09:50:40 PM
 #16883

Adios Bcash... adios SV... Adios Faketoshi Ver
All the best
boomboom
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November 12, 2018, 10:47:40 PM
 #16884

Adios Bcash... adios SV... Adios Faketoshi Ver
All the best

I think in a few days we see how much hash CSW & friends control, I think it will surprise ALL of us!
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November 13, 2018, 07:02:58 AM
 #16885

Be careful with shit hooks in the BCH protocol - that will fire back sooner than you can run away

https://coingeek.com/germanys-financial-regulator-forces-closure-uk-crypto-firm/

.......................

anyway there will always be the problem of territoriality of laws, which is inavoidable..
except in the case of a future hypothetical worldwide governing body.

Nope - if the protocol is just that simple optimized for only for onchain txs and due to the 10 y old white paper purpose / selling prospect
the legal tasks are no-brainers and can only help for a quick global adoption.  

Any protocol hooks / change of (legal!) purpose  ( for 'trustless'  ICOs or gambelling ) will kill that one.


Cleanest and smallest impl of Bitcoin will have less friction , highest stability and potential of building most things on top / get into any industry .

Carpe diem  -  cut the down side  -  be anti-fragile - don't dillute Bitcoin - mine honest!
Memo: 1AHUYNJKPfY7PjVK1hNQFo5LrdGixuiybw  -  https://metanet.icu/
The simple way is the genius way - in Moore's Law and Satoshi's WP we trust.
Cryptcodin
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November 13, 2018, 07:13:31 AM
 #16886

What is Bitcoin Cash? another scam?

Smells like Bitcooooooooonect ! 100%
Mrpumperitis
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November 13, 2018, 07:57:22 AM
 #16887

(please read my previous pst on btc giuld then check this

https://medium.com/@craig_10243/fixing-op-fals-fd157899d2b7
"The aim was never to allow the creation of scripts that are designed to diminish the long-term viability of Bitcoin, and to this end miners will be able to recover this form of funds as if they were salvaging “sunken treasure”. This returns the coins into circulation."



This got me thinking....was this the plan all along for sv...
make the permissionless blockchain into permissioned...
decentralized into centralized...
Control old keys...some very very valuable...
Is this the way faketoshi becomes satoshi, taking his coins....hmmm

I got red trust because i speak the truth....This thread shows why many long term users are being tagged red, ...https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2399315.msg24593043#msg24593043 ,nullius and lauda are scammers.Bitcoin cash is the real upgrade bitcoin needed, not segwit.
How The Banks Bought Bitcoin  The Lightning Network - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g&feature=youtu.be&repost= Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
adaseb
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November 13, 2018, 08:50:26 AM
 #16888

Most likely if these hash figures are somewhat accurate and the reports of Bitmain deploying 50,000 S9 to BCH ABC mining then most likely both chains will survive as long as the hash power is behind them.

The issue here will be the replay attacks since both the output transactions will contain the same hash. Not an issue if you know what you are doing or just use an exchange but it will be an issue to some new people.

People might get tricked into selling their BCH ABC and they might not realize they also sold their BCH SV to the same individual.

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mindrust
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November 13, 2018, 10:08:02 AM
 #16889

What is Bitcoin Cash? another scam?

Smells like Bitcooooooooonect ! 100%

You got that right. Good people of btctalk were warning us to stay away from that scam for months. It is still not too late. Dump that shit before you lose everything.

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Cryptcodin
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November 13, 2018, 11:15:28 AM
 #16890

(please read my previous pst on btc giuld then check this

https://medium.com/@craig_10243/fixing-op-fals-fd157899d2b7
"The aim was never to allow the creation of scripts that are designed to diminish the long-term viability of Bitcoin, and to this end miners will be able to recover this form of funds as if they were salvaging “sunken treasure”. This returns the coins into circulation."



This got me thinking....was this the plan all along for sv...
make the permissionless blockchain into permissioned...
decentralized into centralized...
Control old keys...some very very valuable...
Is this the way faketoshi becomes satoshi, taking his coins....hmmm


Bingo.
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November 13, 2018, 11:43:20 AM
 #16891

https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/313

https://twitter.com/Binance_Fomobot/status/1062301597110358016

$BCH $BTC Simplifying the @bitfinex announcement... "Anyone who is short BCH during the Snapshot Event will have a their accounts debited BAB and BSV. " -If you're shorting BCH over 1x leverage, you will owe money because you borrowed BCH and the lender gets credited ...

"Anyone who is long BCH during the Snapshot Event will then have $BAB and $BSV credited to their account." -If you're going long, you will get paid af
 get debited = taken from
 get credited = given to

I do not accept segwit outputs as payment, nor send them.
~14 easy tricks to save your bitcoin http://trilema.com/2013/how-to-airgap-a-practical-guide/ The auditable hardware RNG http://nosuchlabs.com/
Icutgrass205
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November 13, 2018, 03:38:05 PM
 #16892

What is Bitcoin Cash? another scam?

Smells like Bitcooooooooonect ! 100%

You got that right. Good people of btctalk were warning us to stay away from that scam for months. It is still not too late. Dump that shit before you lose everything.


Can you elaborate on how it is a scam?

Bitcoin, a peer-to-peer electronic cash system for the world. BTC tips are greatly appreciated 35BqJwcycsLDoPrBxmxuh1e4MY7bcDPvGW
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November 13, 2018, 04:54:09 PM
 #16893

It seems to me the most likely outcome is to remain with 2 or 3 different blockchains after the fork with BCH ticker on ABC or Unlimited.. ABC probably.. What go you guys think overall coin value of holding the same amount of BCH now compared to after the fork will incease or decrease? It should increase a little bit imho given that I could dump somewhere all extra coins from those different blockchains Smiley

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November 13, 2018, 05:02:51 PM
 #16894

Some good view on SV coding, QA and bug bounty program

https://youtu.be/jNpo2mYcHGw?t=2090

Carpe diem  -  cut the down side  -  be anti-fragile - don't dillute Bitcoin - mine honest!
Memo: 1AHUYNJKPfY7PjVK1hNQFo5LrdGixuiybw  -  https://metanet.icu/
The simple way is the genius way - in Moore's Law and Satoshi's WP we trust.
jbreher
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November 13, 2018, 06:41:42 PM
 #16895

What is Bitcoin Cash? another scam?

Smells like Bitcooooooooonect ! 100%

You got that right. Good people of btctalk were warning us to stay away from that scam for months. It is still not too late. Dump that shit before you lose everything.

You sound scared there, mindrust.

Cheers!

Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.

I've been convicted of heresy. Convicted by a mere known extortionist. Read my Trust for details.
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November 13, 2018, 07:10:24 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1), infofront (1), HairyMaclairy (1)
 #16896

...or...

CSW is about to employ mad ninja judo skillz, to redirect bitmain's hash power to stall the BTC chain. Perhaps. (?)

In terms of known hash power, Bitmain's dwarf's CSW's - at least when you include that currently devoted to BTC. However, CSW has always had enough hash power to achieve his objective.
At the 2017 Aug fork, he had enough to mine the first blocks ensuring the viability of the BCH chain.
In the last few days, his hash power has ballooned to large majority for SV on the BCH chain.
Does he hold more in reserve? How much?

We know Bitmain holds a lot of BCH. This would indicate a commitment to ensure the ongoing viability in BCH. They currently advocate ABC. If they retain that commitment, things could get interesting.

CSW has indicated his intent to bury the ABC fork under the SV fork. In the case that he controls previously-unimagined hash power, currently in stasis...

CSW could deploy just enough hash power to indeed 'bury' the ABC fork. If Bitmain stays committed to the ABC fork, they would need to redirect hash power from BTC to BCH/ABC. Assuming again that CSW has quasi-unlimited hash power in reserve, he can continue to deploy additional hash power to keep ABC buried. In order to ensure the continued viability of ABC, Bitmain would need to redirect yet additional hash power from BTC to BCH. Bitmain in this manner could possibly be drawn into redirecting most or all of its hash power from BTC to BCH.

If Bitmain's hash power is redirected from BTC to BCH, what happens to the BTC chain? Is this enough to stall the chain? When is the difficulty retargeting?

If enough hash power is pulled from the BTC chain, this will slow down tx processing appreciably. This could be accompanied by a large volume of small-value txs (sometimes referred to as 'spam txs'). The BCH community has already developed flooding tools used in the Gigablock Test Initiative. This combination could crowd other activity out of the chain, making it economically non-viable. The net result would be rendering the BTC chain useless for economic activity. If sustained, possibly followed by chain death.

I am not attaching any sort of probability to the above scenario. But it is an interesting thing to think through.

Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.

I've been convicted of heresy. Convicted by a mere known extortionist. Read my Trust for details.
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November 13, 2018, 07:50:44 PM
 #16897

...or...

CSW is about to employ mad ninja judo skillz, to redirect bitmain's hash power to stall the BTC chain. Perhaps. (?)

In terms of known hash power, Bitmain's dwarf's CSW's - at least when you include that currently devoted to BTC. However, CSW has always had enough hash power to achieve his objective.
At the 2017 Aug fork, he had enough to mine the first blocks ensuring the viability of the BCH chain.
In the last few days, his hash power has ballooned to large majority for SV on the BCH chain.
Does he hold more in reserve? How much?

We know Bitmain holds a lot of BCH. This would indicate a commitment to ensure the ongoing viability in BCH. They currently advocate ABC. If they retain that commitment, things could get interesting.

CSW has indicated his intent to bury the ABC fork under the SV fork. In the case that he controls previously-unimagined hash power, currently in stasis...

CSW could deploy just enough hash power to indeed 'bury' the ABC fork. If Bitmain stays committed to the ABC fork, they would need to redirect hash power from BTC to BCH/ABC. Assuming again that CSW has quasi-unlimited hash power in reserve, he can continue to deploy additional hash power to keep ABC buried. In order to ensure the continued viability of ABC, Bitmain would need to redirect yet additional hash power from BTC to BCH. Bitmain in this manner could possibly be drawn into redirecting most or all of its hash power from BTC to BCH.

If Bitmain's hash power is redirected from BTC to BCH, what happens to the BTC chain? Is this enough to stall the chain? When is the difficulty retargeting?

If enough hash power is pulled from the BTC chain, this will slow down tx processing appreciably. This could be accompanied by a large volume of small-value txs (sometimes referred to as 'spam txs'). The BCH community has already developed flooding tools used in the Gigablock Test Initiative. This combination could crowd other activity out of the chain, making it economically non-viable. The net result would be rendering the BTC chain useless for economic activity. If sustained, possibly followed by chain death.

I am not attaching any sort of probability to the above scenario. But it is an interesting thing to think through.

It would be really good for your mental health if you just accepted that BCH is a failure. The likelihood is their shit forked coin will be too.




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November 13, 2018, 07:54:41 PM
 #16898

Time to save the real bitcoin BCH...

This is the only coin that is the closest thing to permissionless...we cant have a group dictating..major changes..
i have issues with both parties ideas,
 but after watching nchain recent video and reading this ..https://medium.com/@craig_10243/fixing-op-fals-fd157899d2b7
Sorry sv, i do not see this as satoshi vision at all.

I understand why nchain/craig dont want to fork off,
 They want BCH for satoshi coins (and other users)
 They want full control with patents...
 
(Then next they probably will come for segwet btc)


This cannot happen....MARKET MAKERS....if you want to survive we must stop this NOW


ABC alot hash is coming your way...But let this be a lesson for all...dont force changes...
and let us all have at least one coin that can call itself..
Decentralized/permissionless...
If not then BTC HAS FAILED and so have we.





I got red trust because i speak the truth....This thread shows why many long term users are being tagged red, ...https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2399315.msg24593043#msg24593043 ,nullius and lauda are scammers.Bitcoin cash is the real upgrade bitcoin needed, not segwit.
How The Banks Bought Bitcoin  The Lightning Network - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g&feature=youtu.be&repost= Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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In "capitulation" mode until further notice. HODL.


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November 13, 2018, 07:57:51 PM
Last edit: November 13, 2018, 08:37:47 PM by bitserve
 #16899


Assuming again that CSW has quasi-unlimited hash power in reserve, he can continue to deploy additional hash power to keep ABC buried. In order to ensure the continued viability of ABC, Bitmain would need to redirect yet additional hash power from BTC to BCH. Bitmain in this manner could possibly be drawn into redirecting most or all of its hash power from BTC to BCH.



Weird assumption. Quasi-unlimited hash power in reserve?

Yeah, assuming that, and assuming Bitmain would need (and be willing) to redirect ALL of its BTC hashrate to ABCash... then yeah, some delays would be induced in BTC for some (undetermined) time. Too much assumptions and too little impact in comparison. Risk (as in Probability*Impact) = Low.

That being said, it is an interesting "possibility" that adds some more excitement to the event. Already got my popcorns Smiley


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November 13, 2018, 08:57:15 PM
 #16900

...or...

CSW is about to employ mad ninja judo skillz, to redirect bitmain's hash power to stall the BTC chain. Perhaps. (?)

In terms of known hash power, Bitmain's dwarf's CSW's - at least when you include that currently devoted to BTC. However, CSW has always had enough hash power to achieve his objective.
At the 2017 Aug fork, he had enough to mine the first blocks ensuring the viability of the BCH chain.
In the last few days, his hash power has ballooned to large majority for SV on the BCH chain.
Does he hold more in reserve? How much?

We know Bitmain holds a lot of BCH. This would indicate a commitment to ensure the ongoing viability in BCH. They currently advocate ABC. If they retain that commitment, things could get interesting.

CSW has indicated his intent to bury the ABC fork under the SV fork. In the case that he controls previously-unimagined hash power, currently in stasis...

CSW could deploy just enough hash power to indeed 'bury' the ABC fork. If Bitmain stays committed to the ABC fork, they would need to redirect hash power from BTC to BCH/ABC. Assuming again that CSW has quasi-unlimited hash power in reserve, he can continue to deploy additional hash power to keep ABC buried. In order to ensure the continued viability of ABC, Bitmain would need to redirect yet additional hash power from BTC to BCH. Bitmain in this manner could possibly be drawn into redirecting most or all of its hash power from BTC to BCH.

If Bitmain's hash power is redirected from BTC to BCH, what happens to the BTC chain? Is this enough to stall the chain? When is the difficulty retargeting?

If enough hash power is pulled from the BTC chain, this will slow down tx processing appreciably. This could be accompanied by a large volume of small-value txs (sometimes referred to as 'spam txs'). The BCH community has already developed flooding tools used in the Gigablock Test Initiative. This combination could crowd other activity out of the chain, making it economically non-viable. The net result would be rendering the BTC chain useless for economic activity. If sustained, possibly followed by chain death.

I am not attaching any sort of probability to the above scenario. But it is an interesting thing to think through.

I don't think this will happen since unlike BTC they have a different difficulty adjustment period. I havent studied up on it but it should retaeget fairly quickly unlike BTC fixed 2 week period.

Also I dont see any orphans happening either since they are under a different protocol, the 51% attacks won't work.

The bigger issue is the lack of replay protection which might cause losses for some holders.

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