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Author Topic: BTC-e hacked ??  (Read 198570 times)
jojo69
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August 03, 2017, 10:50:46 PM
 #1381


If BTC-E will continue to operate in normal mode it will be the best ever promo operation sponsored by FBI Smiley


this

overnight they would become a beacon of global liberty, it would be a powerful statement...and I would start fearing for their physical safety

This is not some pseudoeconomic post-modern Libertarian cult, it's an un-led, crowd-sourced mega startup organized around mutual self-interest where problems, whether of the theoretical or purely practical variety, are treated as temporary and, ultimately, solvable.
Censorship of e-gold was easy. Censorship of Bitcoin will be… entertaining.
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bj9k
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August 03, 2017, 10:51:40 PM
 #1382

Most guys never read previus posts.

Your exchange balance is not influencing exchange bank accounts the moment when you trade.

It is just a number with some value. You own cash or crypto only after withdrawal.
stingray454
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August 03, 2017, 10:56:39 PM
 #1383


If BTC-E will continue to operate in normal mode it will be the best ever promo operation sponsored by FBI Smiley


this

overnight they would become a beacon of global liberty, it would be a powerful statement...and I would start fearing for their physical safety

+1. Can't say that I've been very pro-russia before, but with all the latest developments in the US they are surely going downhill. FBI meddling in legitimate users cash in foreign countries is just ridiculous, making me truly despise the US. If then the russians can solve the situation and make everything right, that will be a huge win.

(not that I know if I should attribute it to russia as they are not operating there and russia is banning crypto, but at least the btc-e team will have my admiration).
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August 03, 2017, 11:00:25 PM
 #1384

Most guys never read previus posts.

Your exchange balance is not influencing exchange bank accounts the moment when you trade.

It is just a number with some value. You own cash or crypto only after withdrawal.


So this would mean that it should not matter if you were in btc / ltc / eth / fiat or whatever else, all users should be reimbursed no matter what. Let's just hope we get the full amount (IF paybacks are happening, but it seems to be the case)
platitude
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August 03, 2017, 11:02:25 PM
 #1385

My guess (or, hope rather) is that they will take the users balance at the time of the takedown no matter what coins or fiat you were in, and give a corresponding amount of btc back. Also if they lost coins, it will probably be a withdrawal limit at the start so that not everyone tries to pull their coins at once. But overall it sounds promising, at this point I'll be really happy to just get the coins back, it's way better to have missed out a couple of k on trading than to lose your entire balance. If the btc-e team pulls this one off, I'll be damn grateful.

Fighting the US government in court trying to get something back sounds damn near impossible after reading about it a bit. Basically they have the right to confiscate any cash or property suspected to be involved in criminal activity. Even if users were innocent, we "lent" our cash to the btc-e team for trading, and if they are suspected of crimes, their accounts are up for grabs no matter who they owe money to. I'm guessing they will use the funds that they still have (which seems to be most of it) and add some of their own money to reimburse users, and then if/when it's settled in court they'll probably get the seized funds back. I guess.
If BTC-E will continue to operate in normal mode it will be the best ever promo operation sponsored by FBI Smiley
And yes, they still have a carzy huge fine that sould be paid
They will not pay that because they also have to serve up to 55 years in jail first. To pay the fine they must reveal themselves. They are forced to be on the run. Best case is they show USSA the finger and relaunch the exchange in its full glory, on darkmarket if they have to. More realistically I think they will just do refunds and that will be it, which is still a big fuck you to USSA, and I'll love them forever for it.
I'm enthusiast programmer and i would say it's a bad idea to run exchange website in darknet there are few reasons why:
1. Speed. It's impossible to trade efficiently using tor network, beacuse of lag (bottleneck)
2. CloudFlare troubles, more here: https://blog.cloudflare.com/the-trouble-with-tor/
3. (Not so important) Promotion, communication. It is not possible to continue break the laws and have a twitter account for example.
OMlite
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August 03, 2017, 11:04:16 PM
 #1386

Most guys never read previus posts.

Your exchange balance is not influencing exchange bank accounts the moment when you trade.

It is just a number with some value. You own cash or crypto only after withdrawal.


So this would mean that it should not matter if you were in btc / ltc / eth / fiat or whatever else, all users should be reimbursed no matter what.

Quite the opposite Smiley
bj9k
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August 03, 2017, 11:08:54 PM
 #1387

Most guys never read previus posts.

Your exchange balance is not influencing exchange bank accounts the moment when you trade.

It is just a number with some value. You own cash or crypto only after withdrawal.


So this would mean that it should not matter if you were in btc / ltc / eth / fiat or whatever else, all users should be reimbursed no matter what.

Quite the opposite Smiley


Opposite to what? When you deposit into an exchange you are not given fiat value into your exchange balance, but you are given only RIGHTS to trade onto their exchange with their offered value of your deposited asset.

End of day bank settlement, total bank accounts valuation and currency requirements does not have anything to do with actual currencies that are onto exchange/bank client's accounts. Just total value of all assets with total value of all client accounts.
platitude
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August 03, 2017, 11:23:11 PM
 #1388

I think that lack of DDoS protection is the biggest problem on Tor hidden services. You see that they have used Cloudflare and they were even DDoSed several times despite Cloudflare protections.
No.3 is actually the most important. If you can't run an exchange legally then it does not worth running it at all, not just because of possible jail time but because it won't last long and the most people will not use it.
I'm happy to know that you see it like this, because i'm too. I placed this reasons based on a current btc-e priorities
jojo69
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August 03, 2017, 11:26:26 PM
 #1389


 It is not possible to continue break the laws and have a twitter account for example.

ISIS/Daesh seem to get away with it

This is not some pseudoeconomic post-modern Libertarian cult, it's an un-led, crowd-sourced mega startup organized around mutual self-interest where problems, whether of the theoretical or purely practical variety, are treated as temporary and, ultimately, solvable.
Censorship of e-gold was easy. Censorship of Bitcoin will be… entertaining.
stingray454
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August 03, 2017, 11:30:39 PM
 #1390

I'm a bit worried about the legal aspect too. Running some anonymous darknet-like service would scare off too many users. Why trade on shady illegal sites if you can do the same on legal, registred exchanges? Sure, the FBI could probably issue takedowns on those as well, but my guess is that it would be a lot harder. If they want to continue as an exchange, I'm guessing they are doing something like starting up a new company (harder to be tied to btc-e), transfer funds, register with whatever authorities you can and block US access so that they won't fall under some US jurisdiction again. Sounds like a lot of work though.
platitude
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August 03, 2017, 11:31:47 PM
 #1391

ISIS/Daesh seem to get away with it
Do they have an official twitter account? Seriously? Cheesy
OMlite
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August 03, 2017, 11:41:30 PM
 #1392

Opposite to what? When you deposit into an exchange you are not given fiat value into your exchange balance, but you are given only RIGHTS to trade onto their exchange with their offered value of your deposited asset.

You have to consider that, like crypto hot wallets, an exchange also have "fiat hot wallets" to address user fiat conversion requests on daily basis.
This means that part of the crypto coins must have been converted in to FIAT before the takedown. To allow users to withdraw if requested.
Exchanges usually convert a percentage of users' coins daily to feed FIAT hot and cold wallets.
Therefore, since the "FIAT hot and cold wallet" are presumably lost, a complete refund of all the assets is quite difficult, especially on the FIAT side.

But hey, I hope I'm wrong Smiley

bj9k
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August 03, 2017, 11:51:16 PM
 #1393

Opposite to what? When you deposit into an exchange you are not given fiat value into your exchange balance, but you are given only RIGHTS to trade onto their exchange with their offered value of your deposited asset.

You have to consider that, like crypto hot wallets, an exchange also have "fiat hot wallets" to address user fiat conversion requests on daily basis.
This means that part of the crypto coins must have been converted in to FIAT before the takedown. To allow users to withdraw if requested.
Exchanges usually convert a percentage of users' coins daily to feed FIAT hot and cold wallets.
Therefore, since the "FIAT hot and cold wallet" are presumably lost, a complete refund of all the assets is quite difficult, especially on the FIAT side.

But hey, I hope I'm wrong Smiley

You are right but those fiat hot wallets are insignificant to total value. Mayzus is not a bank so they have forwarded all deposits to BTC-e bank account. So only non settled withdrawal and deposit transactions are lost. There could also be situations when an exchange is completely out of required withdrawal hard currency and then they need to get or to borrow it from another source. But an exchange is not into obligation to keep exact amount of each currency as their client's exchange balances are.
erk
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August 03, 2017, 11:53:05 PM
 #1394

Opposite to what? When you deposit into an exchange you are not given fiat value into your exchange balance, but you are given only RIGHTS to trade onto their exchange with their offered value of your deposited asset.

You have to consider that, like crypto hot wallets, an exchange also have "fiat hot wallets" to address user fiat conversion requests on daily basis.
This means that part of the crypto coins must have been converted in to FIAT before the takedown. To allow users to withdraw if requested.
Exchanges usually convert a percentage of users' coins daily to feed FIAT hot and cold wallets.
Therefore, since the "FIAT hot and cold wallet" are presumably lost, a complete refund of all the assets is quite difficult, especially on the FIAT side.

But hey, I hope I'm wrong Smiley



You can't convert crypto into fiat. You can trade one for the other with someone but you cant convert them, it's not alchemy, it's just a change of ownership. Exchanges like BTC-e have bank accounts which people transfer by wire and other means funds into to purchase BTC-e "casino tokens" called USD/RUR/EUR which they can gamble and trade with other BTC-e users for fiat or crypto tokens, coins are not changing hands, only an IOU is changing hands in the BTC-e database. The bank account balance doesn't change for those trades, it only changes when people cash out their IOU or make a new deposit, or when BTC-e take their fees out, so the balance should be high unless seized. Same goes for their crypto wallets.

bj9k
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August 03, 2017, 11:57:39 PM
 #1395

You can't convert crypto into fiat. You can trade one for the other with someone but you cant convert them, it's not alchemy, it's just a change of ownership. Exchanges like BTC-e have bank accounts which people transfer by wire and other means funds into to purchase BTC-e "casino tokens" called USD/RUR/EUR which they can gamble and trade with other BTC-e users for fiat or crypto tokens. The bank account balance doesn't change for those trades, it only changes when people cash out their tokens or make a new deposit, or when BTC-e take their fees out, so the balance should be high unless seized. Same goes for their crypto wallets.

Unless an exchange is trading their bank account fiat and crypto coins on some other exchange.

Also it is impossible to know have people deposited more fiat then it was withdrawn or vice versa. Exchange running out of one currency is possible.

jojo69
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August 03, 2017, 11:59:39 PM
 #1396

ISIS/Daesh seem to get away with it
Do they have an official twitter account? Seriously? Cheesy

not "official" perhaps, and there isn't one displaying at the moment, but if you watch the war on http://isis.liveuamap.com/ for a couple days you will see Daesh affiliated tweets listed

My point being, if these fucks can maintain an online presence, surely a technically savvy, and wealthy, group of Slavs should be able to.

This is not some pseudoeconomic post-modern Libertarian cult, it's an un-led, crowd-sourced mega startup organized around mutual self-interest where problems, whether of the theoretical or purely practical variety, are treated as temporary and, ultimately, solvable.
Censorship of e-gold was easy. Censorship of Bitcoin will be… entertaining.
platitude
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August 04, 2017, 12:04:24 AM
 #1397

not "official" perhaps, and there isn't one displaying at the moment, but if you watch the war on http://isis.liveuamap.com/ for a couple days you will see Daesh affiliated tweets listed

My point being, if these fucks can maintain an online presence, surely a technically savvy, and wealthy, group of Slavs should be able to.
Usually i'm trying to avoid visiting sites like this to not attract the attention to my person from Federal Security Service Cheesy
OMlite
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August 04, 2017, 12:04:49 AM
 #1398

[cut]
so the balance should be high unless seized. Same goes for their crypto wallets.

I totally agree, I posted the same explanation several comments before Smiley
The point is "unless seized". If seized they cannot magically appear from thin air. Neither FIAT, nor crypto.
We already know that something has been seized so... We can only wait and see how much Smiley
jojo69
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August 04, 2017, 12:49:23 AM
 #1399

not "official" perhaps, and there isn't one displaying at the moment, but if you watch the war on http://isis.liveuamap.com/ for a couple days you will see Daesh affiliated tweets listed

My point being, if these fucks can maintain an online presence, surely a technically savvy, and wealthy, group of Slavs should be able to.
Usually i'm trying to avoid visiting sites like this not to attract attention to my person from Federal Security Service Cheesy

just to be clear http://liveuamap.com/ is NOT affiliated, it is a conflict news aggregator, I find it very useful

This is not some pseudoeconomic post-modern Libertarian cult, it's an un-led, crowd-sourced mega startup organized around mutual self-interest where problems, whether of the theoretical or purely practical variety, are treated as temporary and, ultimately, solvable.
Censorship of e-gold was easy. Censorship of Bitcoin will be… entertaining.
platitude
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August 04, 2017, 12:51:08 AM
 #1400

not "official" perhaps, and there isn't one displaying at the moment, but if you watch the war on http://isis.liveuamap.com/ for a couple days you will see Daesh affiliated tweets listed

My point being, if these fucks can maintain an online presence, surely a technically savvy, and wealthy, group of Slavs should be able to.
Usually i'm trying to avoid visiting sites like this not to attract attention to my person from Federal Security Service Cheesy

just to be clear http://liveuamap.com/ is NOT affiliated, it is a conflict news aggregator, I find it very useful
Okay, then it's cool! Thanks, bro!
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