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RealKariverson
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August 11, 2017, 08:02:17 PM |
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"BTC-e attempted to conceal that it provided services to customers located within the United States."
I wonder where the rationale behind this statement comes from.
It seems odd that they would attempt to conceal something unconcealable - I wasnt aware that it was even supposed to be secret
Maybe lawyer speak for "did not require the users location to be given" or "did not provide information on users when requested" This is a bizarre case of US overreach - impounding funds of non-US citizens trading on a non-US exchange . WTF is next, are they going after aliens trading through space the US once passed through? "Bizarre"?? US has been overreaching for decades. They make it easy to root for anyone against them. Fact is simple, the US government has stolen our money and a god damn Russian exchange is fighting for our money. BTC-E deserves respect. |
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erk
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August 11, 2017, 09:11:15 PM |
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https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=019e4e0f-fddb-4097-895c-c872bbbdcb3aJurisdiction Although BTC-e is not a US company, FinCEN asserted jurisdiction because BTC-e conducts business as an MSB in substantial part within the United States. More specifically, FinCEN regulates as “money transmitters” (MTs) any person in the business of accepting currency, funds, or any substitute for currency from one person and transmitting such currency, funds, or substitute for currency to another person or location (unless an applicable exemption applies). To establish jurisdiction, FinCEN asserted that: Since 2011, BTC-e customers located within the United States conducted at least 21,000 virtual currency transactions worth over $296,000,000. These transactions included funds sent from customers located within the United States to recipients who were also located within the United States. These transactions were processed through servers located in the United States. BTC-e attempted to conceal that it provided services to customers located within the United States. BTC-e instructed customers to make use of correspondent accounts held by foreign financial institutions or services provided by affiliates of BTC-e located abroad. The whole thing is BS, the fiat went to overseas companies, eg OKPAY in the UK, and then to BTC-e. The crypto, which isn't legally money under the US constitution, is a virtual construct with no fixed address. |
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figmentofmyass
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August 11, 2017, 09:22:35 PM |
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Not to mention their servers were located in a US datacenter, which means they can quite easily demand to seize the hardware. Not the brightest idea to host it there to be honest.
Which US datacenter where the servers located in? They were hosted by Cloudflare which is a US company. Exactly where the servers where physically located I'm not sure, I think I read somewhere in the US. But either way, as Cloudflare is a US based company the FBI can demand pretty much anything from them under US law and they have to comply, even if the servers were physically located abroad (which I don't think they were, I think it was a data center in california). they weren't hosted by cloudflare. that was just for DDOS protection services. they have nothing to do with the exchange's datacenter. i don't think it's public information where the seized servers were. and the seized servers may have just been running scripts to yet another remote server. we really don't have enough information to opine one way or the other on how intelligently they set up their infrastructure. |
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YesLOST
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August 11, 2017, 11:28:31 PM |
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I just say dolbobby!  The Russians really pumping their update threads. |
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jojo69
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diamond-handed zealot
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August 11, 2017, 11:42:32 PM |
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The FBI seized hardware in a California datacenter, details are...somewhere...in this, what now, 80something page thread? I had a quick look but didn't find it.
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This is not some pseudoeconomic post-modern Libertarian cult, it's an un-led, crowd-sourced mega startup organized around mutual self-interest where problems, whether of the theoretical or purely practical variety, are treated as temporary and, ultimately, solvable.
Censorship of e-gold was easy. Censorship of Bitcoin will be… entertaining.
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YesLOST
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August 11, 2017, 11:50:34 PM |
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The FBI seized hardware in a California datacenter, details are...somewhere...in this, what now, 80something page thread? I had a quick look but didn't find it.
equinix.com ... but why do you want to repeat old news again? I mean, we even got one guy here posting today (11. August) the btce update from 9. August  |
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YesLOST
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August 11, 2017, 11:57:38 PM |
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btce was very clear with their statements about refunds. EVERYBODY gets a refund in case they won't come back online. Not only people with coins. Don't be fooled, of course losses will be socialized, you won't get your 100% deposit back.
Everything above 50% will be like the best Christmas gift ever.
For myself, everything above 60% refund I will either send back directly to btce as a donation or just donate it to some hospital. Fuck the greed.
Because nothing happens, I just quote myself from some days ago |
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jojo69
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diamond-handed zealot
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August 12, 2017, 12:32:06 AM |
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equinix.com ... but why do you want to repeat old news again? I mean, we even got one guy here posting today (11. August) the btce update from 9. August Thank you, yes ... because it is buried in 90 pages of shitposts and I don't have a photographic memory? I was responding to the post a couple above mine i don't think it's public information where the seized servers were. ...I try and crop the quotes if I can, guess it did not work as planned this time. |
This is not some pseudoeconomic post-modern Libertarian cult, it's an un-led, crowd-sourced mega startup organized around mutual self-interest where problems, whether of the theoretical or purely practical variety, are treated as temporary and, ultimately, solvable.
Censorship of e-gold was easy. Censorship of Bitcoin will be… entertaining.
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YesLOST
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August 12, 2017, 12:45:24 AM |
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Kemarit
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August 12, 2017, 01:42:04 AM |
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https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=019e4e0f-fddb-4097-895c-c872bbbdcb3aJurisdiction Although BTC-e is not a US company, FinCEN asserted jurisdiction because BTC-e conducts business as an MSB in substantial part within the United States. More specifically, FinCEN regulates as “money transmitters” (MTs) any person in the business of accepting currency, funds, or any substitute for currency from one person and transmitting such currency, funds, or substitute for currency to another person or location (unless an applicable exemption applies). To establish jurisdiction, FinCEN asserted that: Since 2011, BTC-e customers located within the United States conducted at least 21,000 virtual currency transactions worth over $296,000,000. These transactions included funds sent from customers located within the United States to recipients who were also located within the United States. These transactions were processed through servers located in the United States. BTC-e attempted to conceal that it provided services to customers located within the United States. BTC-e instructed customers to make use of correspondent accounts held by foreign financial institutions or services provided by affiliates of BTC-e located abroad. The whole thing is BS, the fiat went to overseas companies, eg OKPAY in the UK, and then to BTC-e. The crypto, which isn't legally money under the US constitution, is a virtual construct with no fixed address. I think US is really overreaching on this one. Putting tighter regulations on ICO's AlphaBay and Hansa was taken down Bitmixer.io officially shutdown its business (Because of pressure from the gov't?) BTC-e then taking down by Fed Who is next then on the list of the Feds? I don't know why the US government is suddenly taking on the crypto in general. This is out of their jurisdiction. I would understand if they will bully another third world nation, but this is Russia that are involved here. I think they should have think many times before seizing the BTC-e servers and now BTC-e is trying to get back the funds to give it back to its customers. US has crossed some boundaries here and for sure there will be repercussions on this. And this actions is not the best and most effective way to handle it. They are now waging war on crypto world for that matter. But why just now? |
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erk
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August 12, 2017, 01:47:11 AM |
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I think US is really overreaching on this one.
Putting tighter regulations on ICO's
AlphaBay and Hansa was taken down
Bitmixer.io officially shutdown its business (Because of pressure from the gov't?)
BTC-e then taking down by Fed
Who is next then on the list of the Feds?
I don't know why the US government is suddenly taking on the crypto in general. This is out of their jurisdiction. I would understand if they will bully another third world nation, but this is Russia that are involved here. I think they should have think many times before seizing the BTC-e servers and now BTC-e is trying to get back the funds to give it back to its customers. US has crossed some boundaries here and for sure there will be repercussions on this. And this actions is not the best and most effective way to handle it. They are now waging war on crypto world for that matter. But why just now?
One thing to keep in mind, the US government is run by the big corporations, has been for several years now. So when you are trying to summarize the situation, it's good to work out who benefits most from the events you described. |
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mo_mo
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August 12, 2017, 03:10:35 AM |
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it seems like u.s wants to control cryptocurrency and make it their own and bully other countries cause they are scared it will take over the u.s dollar. bitfinex is doing the rite thing taking u.s residents out of the equation cause the baggage is the u.s government.
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jojo69
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diamond-handed zealot
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August 12, 2017, 03:23:27 AM |
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the genie is out of the bottle
the USD is long since doomed, resistance is futile, but this fact will do nothing to prevent the violent death spasms of the dying order
as always, the proletariat will pay the price, plan accordingly
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This is not some pseudoeconomic post-modern Libertarian cult, it's an un-led, crowd-sourced mega startup organized around mutual self-interest where problems, whether of the theoretical or purely practical variety, are treated as temporary and, ultimately, solvable.
Censorship of e-gold was easy. Censorship of Bitcoin will be… entertaining.
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Error 522
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August 12, 2017, 04:58:03 AM |
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fixed that for you
One thing to keep in mind, the US government is run by the big corporations, BANKS and ISRAEL has been for several years now. So when you are trying to summarize the situation, it's good to work out who benefits most from the events you described.
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manchester93
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August 12, 2017, 06:35:34 AM |
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it seems like u.s wants to control cryptocurrency and make it their own and bully other countries cause they are scared it will take over the u.s dollar. bitfinex is doing the rite thing taking u.s residents out of the equation cause the baggage is the u.s government.
I think the feds are just picking the low-hanging fruit. They realize that cryptocurrency is here to stay. Bitfinex still faces problems, because they operated in the US for years without a license. And then, there was the whole token thing, which may not sit well with the SEC... |
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erk
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August 12, 2017, 06:43:26 AM |
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the genie is out of the bottle
the USD is long since doomed, resistance is futile, but this fact will do nothing to prevent the violent death spasms of the dying order
as always, the proletariat will pay the price, plan accordingly
The USD is certainly in trouble, the US middle class is dying. These attacks on crypto exchanges could be last ditch attempts to forestall the inevitable fiat collapse. The principles behind crypto are sound, sure there may be mostly speculative money driving the exchanges like BTC-e, but there are more and more real investors moving some funds from fiat into crypto as a method of preserving wealth. The next phase will be people asking for their wages in crypto, and they are going to need exchanges until most business accept crypto. |
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squatter
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STOP SNITCHIN'
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August 12, 2017, 06:48:01 AM |
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the genie is out of the bottle
the USD is long since doomed, resistance is futile, but this fact will do nothing to prevent the violent death spasms of the dying order
as always, the proletariat will pay the price, plan accordingly
The USD is certainly in trouble, the US middle class is dying. These attacks on crypto exchanges could be last ditch attempts to forestall the inevitable fiat collapse. Or maybe they are just doing it because they can. Exchanges like BTC-e and Bitfinex became so big, they are low-hanging fruit, and there was a lot of money in seizing BTC-e (at least fiat money), I'm sure. I think the USD can likely be maintained against all odds for quite some time, but regarding cryptocurrencies, I suspect the genie is indeed out of the bottle. They picked off BTC-e like they did Full Tilt Poker and Pokerstars a few years ago. This time, no happy ending I guess... |
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erk
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August 12, 2017, 07:15:00 AM |
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I think the USD can likely be maintained against all odds for quite some time, but regarding cryptocurrencies, I suspect the genie is indeed out of the bottle. They picked off BTC-e like they did Full Tilt Poker and Pokerstars a few years ago. This time, no happy ending I guess...
I think you misunderstood what I was saying, I was not suggesting that crypto is a cause of fiat collapse, it's way too small for that, the years of BTC-e trade volume since day one is only hours worth of trade in the fiat markets. I was pointing out that crypto is a safer haven that more and more people will flee too, as it's seen to be more democratic even though subject to highly speculative fluctuations atm. Which is improving daily (well except for the ICOs, but that's another story) |
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mayax
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August 12, 2017, 08:50:26 AM |
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it seems like u.s wants to control cryptocurrency and make it their own and bully other countries cause they are scared it will take over the u.s dollar. bitfinex is doing the rite thing taking u.s residents out of the equation cause the baggage is the u.s government.
I think the feds are just picking the low-hanging fruit. They realize that cryptocurrency is here to stay. Bitfinex still faces problems, because they operated in the US for years without a license. And then, there was the whole token thing, which may not sit well with the SEC... what about Kraken and Poloniex? they are based in USA and they operate without license. they are in the same position as many other closed exchangers due to the operating an illegal money transmiter  |
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SolarSilver
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August 12, 2017, 10:07:53 AM |
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I was pointing out that crypto is a safer haven that more and more people will flee too, as it's seen to be more democratic even though subject to highly speculative fluctuations atm.
I think you are right and it will the ultimate middle finger up if BTC-e manages to get their site with the old accounts up and give people access to the wallets they restored. If all the USD and EUR has been confiscated, it will only show how unreliable these forms of 'value storage' are. If you trade on an exchange, don't keep your working capital in FRN but in some (alt)coin (BTC, LTC, ETH, ...) |
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