KnCMiner Openday Wednesday 5th & Monday 10th June

[Bitcoinorama]

Why no have a staging website where they can play around with all these things?

Seriously?

For a hosting company, you'd think they knew how to make a professional website.

Meh, they've had a site live for a few weeks for traffic generation/recognition amd as a voicebox for official announcements. They're not taking payments and had no product to show at the beginning, so it's work in progress until they are able and comfortable with their product offering to open the checkout.

If you had a staging website outside of public view with such a short timeframe available to generate awareness it would cost them the attention gained. Along with it the hype, speculation and criticism. This way they have been able to respond, adapt and evolve and generate interest whilst appeasing legitimate criticism as it unfolds.

I think it's been logical this route to evolve with the given time available. Above and beyond it's the products themselves, ability to deliver, and the protected payment choices with their given timeframes that matter.

Geez, you never stop finding excuses for them.

They have sites on MS Azure. How much do you think it costs to throw a dev/staging website? Really.

It's just unprofessional.

I'm not finding excuses, I'm exploring the potential reasoning. I don't think it's a matter of cost, but time. If you take the current site away as it were, you loose a period of recognition and registration of interest. At the very beginning they hadn't narrowed a product offering, so how could they determine all these finer details. Also with respect to payments you have to apply for payment processors, acquiring and issuing banks which is obviously an unfolding process in itself. If they ran a second site alongside the live site and drafted then copied finalised revisions across that would take considerably more time.

In any case WTFDIK about webdev? Actually a fair bit, but no where near enough. Payments and marketing I know a lot more about...

[KS]

Why no have a staging website where they can play around with all these things?

Seriously?

For a hosting company, you'd think they knew how to make a professional website.

Meh, they've had a site live for a few weeks for traffic generation/recognition amd as a voicebox for official announcements. They're not taking payments and had no product to show at the beginning, so it's work in progress until they are able and comfortable with their product offering to open the checkout.

If you had a staging website outside of public view with such a short timeframe available to generate awareness it would cost them the attention gained. Along with it the hype, speculation and criticism. This way they have been able to respond, adapt and evolve and generate interest whilst appeasing legitimate criticism as it unfolds.

I think it's been logical this route to evolve with the given time available. Above and beyond it's the products themselves, ability to deliver, and the protected payment choices with their given timeframes that matter.

Geez, you never stop finding excuses for them.

They have sites on MS Azure. How much do you think it costs to throw a dev/staging website? Really.

It's just unprofessional.

I'm not finding excuses, I'm exploring the potential reasoning. I don't think it's a matter of cost, but time. If you take the current site away as it were, you loose a period of recognition and registration of interest. At the very beginning they hadn't narrowed a product offering, so how could they determine all these finer details. Also with respect to payments you have to apply for payment processors, acquiring and issuing banks which is obviously an unfolding process in itself. If they ran a second site alongside the live site and drafted then copied finalised revisions across that would take considerably more time.

In any case WTFDIK about webdev? Actually a fair bit, but no where near enough. Payments and marketing I know a lot more about...

You do look for excuses. Any reason you try to uncover for them doing this or that is just that.

There are tools that let you cobble up a website, in fact several versions of one, on several platforms, in a matter of minutes. Of course you need a few hours for the think process...

Nobody is stopping them from asking for validation from the various CC processors on the dev/staging website (been there, done that). Or getting a free SSL certificate either...

[Bitcoinorama]

You do look for excuses. Any reason you try to uncover for them doing this or that is just that.

BS I weigh up options and provide an opportunity to debate. It's why I've given so much Sweden specific consumer e-commerce and paymet protection info and linkage earlier, along with contact for the lady responsible for Visa's consumer protection in Sweden! Who else has bothered to research and share that? no one. That stuff really matters w.r.t. potential fraud.

You're suggesting they build a stealth site and switch it across when complete to appear more professional.

All well and good in the usual run of things, but time genuinely is of the essence. If I was paying someone to build me a site and they published it incomplete I'd be pissed, but if I'm working on it and a million other things myself with a tight deadline of weeks to develop a live site taking payments and months before product delivery. I'd let it evolve as long as I'm not breaking the law or accepting payments for a non-existent product. FFS they would have no business unless ORSoC agreed to come aboard, they've stated that much as fact. ORSoC only agreed around a month ago. The site's like two months old tops.

In any case back to the marketing aspect, how else could they register potential interest and evoke response? They have needed an active site, even if it's a morphing holding page.

Their professionalism stems from the relevant experience of those involved and how they approach this project. They've shared their identities and personal LinkedIns from the start. Between them they have more relevant experience from developing IT architecture within major financial institutions and FPGA/ASIC semiconductor and systems development than any other prospective company so far...

Blatantly SSL matters when dealing with personal information of customers though and that has to be in place. All the important stuff has to be ticked off prior to requesting payment. Then they are definitely deserving of judgement.

For the record I'm pro-a-European company/solution. Saying that Terrahash (LA - US based) also look interesting - again they're not asking for payment without proof either so I'm willing to remain optimistic. They also don't carry the same pedigree, but we know they will be potentially handling chips that do work and have expressed interest in prototyping a product before payment as well...




--
EDIT: 7.20pm Scrap the Terrahash thing, they've just stated they will only be accepting Bitcoin as 'they want to promote the currency', but will consider accepting credit cards in future. Bull**** Bitcoin's for all intents and purposes anonymous, has no consumer protection. and Terrahash have no proven past history of delivering anything. They have their funding the wrong way round. They get paid in Bitcoin AFTER they've proven themselves legitimate.

[Fiyasko]

Wheres the Cheap ASIC for us GPU guys...
I wanna see a $300 ASIC, Maybe $500

[Gomeler]

Wheres the Cheap ASIC for us GPU guys...
I wanna see a $300 ASIC, Maybe $500

Wait 6-12 months. ASIC prices will be forced to drop as their ROI enters 1 year territory. One manufacture will drop their price to increase product sales volume and others will be forced to follow.

[Fiyasko]

Wheres the Cheap ASIC for us GPU guys...
I wanna see a $300 ASIC, Maybe $500

Wait 6-12 months. ASIC prices will be forced to drop as their ROI enters 1 year territory. One manufacture will drop their price to increase product sales volume and others will be forced to follow.

But but... 6000 / 50% =3000 I dont have three grand in my pocket

[Bitcoinorama]

Wheres the Cheap ASIC for us GPU guys...
I wanna see a $300 ASIC, Maybe $500

Wait 6-12 months. ASIC prices will be forced to drop as their ROI enters 1 year territory. One manufacture will drop their price to increase product sales volume and others will be forced to follow.

But but... 6000 / 50 =3000 I dont have three grand in my pocket

No, it equals 120...

In any case what are you on about?!

[Fiyasko]

Wheres the Cheap ASIC for us GPU guys...
I wanna see a $300 ASIC, Maybe $500

Wait 6-12 months. ASIC prices will be forced to drop as their ROI enters 1 year territory. One manufacture will drop their price to increase product sales volume and others will be forced to follow.

But but... 6000 / 50% =3000 I dont have three grand in my pocket

No, it equals 120...

In any case what are on about?!

Lol PFFFFFFFFFFFF IM SO STUPID SOME MORNINGS! Ahahah dammnit leave me alone i forgot the % symbol!
Im "on about" wanting a Cheapy Cheap Entry level ASIC, Like BFL's jalapeno

[bitpop]

wtf learn math

Wheres the Cheap ASIC for us GPU guys...
I wanna see a $300 ASIC, Maybe $500

Wait 6-12 months. ASIC prices will be forced to drop as their ROI enters 1 year territory. One manufacture will drop their price to increase product sales volume and others will be forced to follow.

But but... 6000 / 50 =3000 I dont have three grand in my pocket

[bitpop]

That's still not right. That would make it 12,000.

I think you mean 6000 * .5 (50%) = 3000

[KS]

You're suggesting they build a stealth site and switch it across when complete to appear more professional.

No. Leave the stuff that's in flux on the dev site. Have a public website too but keep it clean and explain the real thing is coming later on.

All well and good in the usual run of things, but time genuinely is of the essence. If I was paying someone to build me a site and they published it incomplete I'd be pissed, but if I'm working on it and a million other things myself with a tight deadline of weeks to develop a live site taking payments and months before product delivery. I'd let it evolve as long as I'm not breaking the law or accepting payments for a non-existent product. FFS they would have no business unless ORSoC agreed to come aboard, they've stated that much as fact. ORSoC only agreed around a month ago. The site's like two months old tops.

It takes minutes to fork a site, publish one and keep the other as dev/staging. Unless you're part of their process, you can't know their issues. Don't try to find excuses for why they do this or that. Take a step back.

In any case back to the marketing aspect, how else could they register potential interest and evoke response? They have needed an active site, even if it's a morphing holding page.

With a clear website, devoid of the things that are changing.

Their professionalism stems from the relevant experience of those involved and how they approach this project. They've shared their identities and personal LinkedIns from the start.

doesn't make them professional

Between them they have more relevant experience from developing IT architecture within major financial institutions and FPGA/ASIC semiconductor and systems development than any other prospective company so far...

You'd think they'd be better at making websites. It's like managing a software dev project...

Blatantly SSL matters when dealing with personal information of customers though and that has to be in place. All the important stuff has to be ticked off prior to requesting payment. Then they are definitely deserving of judgement.

SSL is indeed quite important. The can start with a cheap SSl cert then get a Symantec/Verisign one if they want. It takes minutes to get a cheap SSl cert.

For the record I'm pro-a-European company/solution. Saying that Terrahash (LA - US based) also look interesting - again they're not asking for payment without proof either so I'm willing to remain optimistic. They also don't carry the same pedigree, but we know they will be potentially handling chips that do work and have expressed interest in prototyping a product before payment as well...

Now you're making excuses for yourself. Your views on the competition have nothing to do with the pro-KnC attitude you're showing (this isn't sth to be ashamed of).


Let's agree to disagree. I find them unprofessional and you find tons of reasons for why they can't do things better. The end result is pretty much the same: subpar.

[Gomeler]

Wheres the Cheap ASIC for us GPU guys...
I wanna see a $300 ASIC, Maybe $500

+1

Get the Erupter USB stick.  You won't get rich, but it is a good replacement for GPUs

They are a horrible replacement for GPUs. At this point in the arms race you do not want to 1:1 replace your MH/s per $. You want a 10:1 or even 100:1 replacement in order to maintain your network % ownership. At this point you either gamble on things like KnC's Saturn/Jupiter or BFL's 25/50 GH/s SCs.

I made a 'mistake' in purchasing an ASICMINER blade with this regards. I'll hit ROI but I doubt that blade will be relevant in 6 months. Meanwhile a KnC Jupiter will likely generate the BTC/day that my blade is generating today.

[Bitcoinorama]

Wheres the Cheap ASIC for us GPU guys...
I wanna see a $300 ASIC, Maybe $500

+1

Get the Erupter USB stick.  You won't get rich, but it is a good replacement for GPUs

They are a horrible replacement for GPUs. At this point in the arms race you do not want to 1:1 replace your MH/s per $. You want a 10:1 or even 100:1 replacement in order to maintain your network % ownership. At this point you either gamble on things like KnC's Saturn/Jupiter or BFL's 25/50 GH/s SCs.

I made a 'mistake' in purchasing an ASICMINER blade with this regards. I'll hit ROI but I doubt that blade will be relevant in 6 months. Meanwhile a KnC Jupiter will likely generate the BTC/day that my blade is generating today.

Can I ask, if you don't mind (I realise a little OT), why you went ahead and purchased the blade, if you were aware of the exponential hashrate have a inverse exponential effect on your blade ROI? You had to be aware of at least the bulk Avalon chips at the time of purchase.

Back on topic, from what has been discussed in the past it's their intention to offer lower price entry and shared hosted ownership of rigs in future. Once non recurring engineering costs have been swallows by early adopters, they can then ship a variety of mining options at cheaper, more affordable prices. This development stage is what's expensive for them as manufacturers and for any prospective consumers of these initial batches. The reward is the hashrate will be lower for the earlier batches then subsequent batches that will have various price points of entry. AsicMiner and Avalon could easily afford to drop their prices, but have chosen not to. However they will have to compete with newer entities as and when they come and prove themselves to be serious contenders.

[Gomeler]

Wheres the Cheap ASIC for us GPU guys...
I wanna see a $300 ASIC, Maybe $500

+1

Get the Erupter USB stick.  You won't get rich, but it is a good replacement for GPUs

They are a horrible replacement for GPUs. At this point in the arms race you do not want to 1:1 replace your MH/s per $. You want a 10:1 or even 100:1 replacement in order to maintain your network % ownership. At this point you either gamble on things like KnC's Saturn/Jupiter or BFL's 25/50 GH/s SCs.

I made a 'mistake' in purchasing an ASICMINER blade with this regards. I'll hit ROI but I doubt that blade will be relevant in 6 months. Meanwhile a KnC Jupiter will likely generate the BTC/day that my blade is generating today.

Can I ask, if you don't mind (I realise a little OT), why you went ahead and purchased the blade, if you were aware of this? You had to be aware of at least the bulk Avalon chips at the time of purchase.

Back on topic, from what has been discussed in the past it's their intention to offer lower price entry and shared hosted ownership of rigs in future. Once non recurring engineering costs have been swallows by early adopters, they can then ship a variety of mining options at cheaper, more affordable prices. This development stage is what's expensive for them as manufacturers and for any prospective consumers of these initial batches. The reward is the hashrate will be lower for the earlier batches then subsequent batches that will have various price points of entry. AsicMiner and Avalon could easily afford to drop their prices, but have chosen not to. However they will have to compete with newer entities as and when they come and prove themselves to be serious contenders.

It was a gamble that I think will pay off. I have recovered just under 30% of the investment and if things continue as they are I will have hit ROI by the time the Avalon chips hit the market. I am hoping to otherwise skip the 110-130nm products and jump into ASICs in fullforce with 28nm-65nm products that will hopefully maintain relevancy for another ~12 months.

I wish instead of buying the blade I had bought more ASICMINER shares. I don't think I'll lose BTC on this investment but it wasn't the most lucrative option, looking backwards.

[pitchbend]

Any info on the power requirements of the MARS device??

The estimated power requirements for the Saturn and Jupiter are on the website, but they failed to include the info for the MARS.

[kevcoins]

That's still not right. That would make it 12,000.

I think you mean 6000 * .5 (50%) = 3000

A down payment of $1000 is the best way to go before we get the real working Jupiter and Saturn ASIC miner.

Before the product is ready in 1 week and due for delivery, only than a full payment be appropriate. If someone

don't pay up Sam can always used them for his own mining pleasures

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Between them they have more relevant experience from developing IT architecture within major financial institutions and FPGA/ASIC semiconductor and systems development than any other prospective company so far...

You'd think they'd be better at making websites. It's like managing a software dev project...

They are better at making websites, for Andreas Kennemar and Samuel Cole have been partners since the beginning of last year, even offering up proof by linking their websites which, incidentally, all of which weren't live all of last year. When did the sites become live? Funny you should ask. The answer is April 8, 2013 (and later), only hours after KNCMiner registered on this forum.

Proof: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://kennemarandcole.se

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://kandc.se

Registered through: GoDaddy.com, LLC (http://www.godaddy.com)
Domain Name: KNCMINER.COM
Created on: 03-Apr-13
Expires on: 03-Apr-16
Last Updated on: 03-Apr-13

Name:   kncminer
Posts:   42
Position:   Jr. Member
Date Registered:   April 07, 2013, 03:18:32 PM
Last Active:   Today at 05:06:44 PM

http://se.linkedin.com/pub/andreas-kennemar/7/a72/381

Owner, Technical Architect Infrastructure

Kennemar & Cole AB

January 2012 – Present (1 year 6 months)

Kennemar & Cole are improving the infrastructure and processes for our customers. We are specialist in designing and automating system to provide best value for the customer.

You tell me how the fuck were two guys able to make a living off a web-based company that wasn't even available on the internet prior to KNCMiner's creation.

Now, there's a thread up selling pre-orders, mainly populated by users who've signed up to the forum around April 8, 2013.

You smell that? If you can't, I'll give you a hint:

[Biomech]

@PG... Is there anybody/thing that you DON'T consider to be a scam?

[dan99]

Between them they have more relevant experience from developing IT architecture within major financial institutions and FPGA/ASIC semiconductor and systems development than any other prospective company so far...

You'd think they'd be better at making websites. It's like managing a software dev project...

They are better at making websites, for Andreas Kennemar and Samuel Cole have been partners since the beginning of last year, even offering up proof by linking their websites which, incidentally, all of which weren't live all of last year. When did the sites become live? Funny you should ask. The answer is April 8, 2013 (and later), only hours after KNCMiner registered on this forum.

Proof: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://kennemarandcole.se

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://kandc.se

Registered through: GoDaddy.com, LLC (http://www.godaddy.com)
Domain Name: KNCMINER.COM
Created on: 03-Apr-13
Expires on: 03-Apr-16
Last Updated on: 03-Apr-13

Name:   kncminer
Posts:   42
Position:   Jr. Member
Date Registered:   April 07, 2013, 03:18:32 PM
Last Active:   Today at 05:06:44 PM

http://se.linkedin.com/pub/andreas-kennemar/7/a72/381

Owner, Technical Architect Infrastructure

Kennemar & Cole AB

January 2012 – Present (1 year 6 months)

Kennemar & Cole are improving the infrastructure and processes for our customers. We are specialist in designing and automating system to provide best value for the customer.

You tell me how the fuck were two guys able to make a living off a web-based company that wasn't even available on the internet prior to KNCMiner's creation.

Now, there's a thread up selling pre-orders, mainly populated by users who've signed up to the forum around April 8, 2013.

You smell that? If you can't, I'll give you a hint:

May I know if you have check out Butterfly and Avalon before? and how did you label them before? Are they consider as scam to you? would be great if you could also focus on those Avalon Clones popping up here and there, these are mostly individuals assembling and selling this avalon clones. Appreciate if you could go and check after this guys, other than KNC which you have already done a lot of in depth investigations.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I'm all over BFL. I used to be all over Avalon until it turned into a whack-the-mole contest. I have been part of investigating the other ASIC-based bitcoin miner companies that all proved to be scams.

KNCMiner is special in the sense that I believe they've done a good job masking their intent. The proof is too overwhelming to not be a scam of some nature.

Not a single person can show an instance of Kennemar & Cole's websites (there's three identical ones) being readily available on the internet prior to KNCminer's existence. Not even Kennemar and Cole themselves, for they've avoided the question like the plague.

Instead of that aspect being investigated and discussed, I'm the one asked questions, and I'm the one who's trying to help.

Madness!