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Author Topic: [LABCOIN] IPO [BTCT.CO] - Details/FAQ and Discussion (ASIC dev/sales/mining)  (Read 1039733 times)
Ytterbium
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September 22, 2013, 08:22:06 AM
 #13301

Public 70%
Labcoin 30% - voluntary lock 75%  for 12 months (show of good will - not part of the contract).

Yeah, that's what they said - I'm amazed Burnside posted that warning without actually getting clarification. But I guess the problem was he wasn't able to get a hold of them, which is another failure on Labcoin's part.

Still, I ended up selling because of that warning, before he posted the link.  I made a pretty big proft off the shares that I re-bought at 0.0016, like 70% or so.  And I'm pretty sure I'm still way in the black.  But it is really annoying.

The way it was worded, made it sound like the stock could be delisted at any moment.

So it was you who dumped that time. Smiley sorry, because I was the first one noticed the new warning and asked here.

Lol, don't worry about it. I'm sure someone would have noticed.  It shouldn't have been posted without any context, and I think selling was the right move.  I still made a pretty big proft overall, and bought about half way back in

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BitCsByBit
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September 22, 2013, 08:26:26 AM
 #13302

In the other news, we've passed the ASICMiner thread in the number of pages   Grin

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September 22, 2013, 08:28:59 AM
 #13303

I read the contract and to me it means they'll hold 30% indefinitely.  (IE, their profit comes from dividends, thus keeping them motivated.)

Really?  I remember them specifically saying that was not the case, and that they would sell up to 25% of their shares prior to the first 6 months.

Specifically in the contract, or specifically elsewhere?  The contract is the basis.  You can't put something in there and then post elsewhere "we didn't really mean that."

Either they meant that they'd hold them indefinitely, or they meant that they would not hold them indefinitely.  What purpose is there in the statement that they'd hold X% if as soon as the IPO completes they can just list those at will?  Thus my interpretation was that they meant indefinitely.

Lol, don't worry about it. I'm sure someone would have noticed.  It shouldn't have been posted without any context, and I think selling was the right move.  I still made a pretty big proft overall, and bought about half way back in

There are hundreds of pages of context here.


I'm not a Coinbase fan -- I placed a buy order, they took the funds out of my account, then a week later the price went up and they canceled the buy and closed my account.  You've been warned.  Use a different exchange.
Rannasha
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September 22, 2013, 08:31:43 AM
 #13304

In other news: This thread has passed the ASICMINER thread in number of replies and is now that largest thread on the Securities forum.

At least LABCOIN is marketleader in something Smiley
freedomno1
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September 22, 2013, 08:33:41 AM
 #13305

In the other news, we've passed the ASICMiner thread in the number of pages   Grin

Lol Called it
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=263445.msg3187031#msg3187031

BitCsByBit
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September 22, 2013, 08:35:46 AM
 #13306

In other news: This thread has passed the ASICMINER thread in number of replies and is now that largest thread on the Securities forum.

At least LABCOIN is marketleader in something Smiley

Is there an echo in here?   Grin

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September 22, 2013, 08:36:17 AM
 #13307

In other news: This thread has passed the ASICMINER thread in number of replies and is now that largest thread on the Securities forum.

At least LABCOIN is marketleader in something Smiley

Is there an echo in here?   Grin
I'm just slow Sad
Bitcycle
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September 22, 2013, 08:37:41 AM
 #13308

I read the contract and to me it means they'll hold 30% indefinitely.  (IE, their profit comes from dividends, thus keeping them motivated.)

Really?  I remember them specifically saying that was not the case, and that they would sell up to 25% of their shares prior to the first 6 months.

Specifically in the contract, or specifically elsewhere?  The contract is the basis.  You can't put something in there and then post elsewhere "we didn't really mean that."

Either they meant that they'd hold them indefinitely, or they meant that they would not hold them indefinitely.  What purpose is there in the statement that they'd hold X% if as soon as the IPO completes they can just list those at will?  Thus my interpretation was that they meant indefinitely.



You might find the information you're looking for here-  https://btct.co/security/LABCOIN

Look in the news tab at the item posted 2 months ago.
Ytterbium
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September 22, 2013, 08:39:47 AM
 #13309

I read the contract and to me it means they'll hold 30% indefinitely.  (IE, their profit comes from dividends, thus keeping them motivated.)

Really?  I remember them specifically saying that was not the case, and that they would sell up to 25% of their shares prior to the first 6 months.

Specifically in the contract, or specifically elsewhere?  The contract is the basis.  You can't put something in there and then post elsewhere "we didn't really mean that."

Either they meant that they'd hold them indefinitely, or they meant that they would not hold them indefinitely.  What purpose is there in the statement that they'd hold X% if as soon as the IPO completes they can just list those at will?  Thus my interpretation was that they meant indefinitely.

Lol, don't worry about it. I'm sure someone would have noticed.  It shouldn't have been posted without any context, and I think selling was the right move.  I still made a pretty big proft overall, and bought about half way back in

There are hundreds of pages of context here.

Yeah, it was in the thread.  Around the time of their IPO. I'm not sure if it was the Labcoin account or TheSwede.  But basically they said they felt that they should be able to sell some shares since they put in so much work on the project, but wouldn't sell any more then 25% in the first year.  


EDIT: here is the news on their news page:

Quote
News

Regarding shares owned by the Labcoin founders and developers.

Due to inquiries LABCOIN has received from investors, the founders and developers involved in the LABCOIN project has decided to voluntarily lock in 75% of all shares owned by the LABCOIN core team for 12-months.

This means that no founder or developer owning shares in LABCOIN will sell an excess of 25% of their shares for at least 365 days from today's date.

This is being publicly announced to set to rest any concern that the LABCOIN team has any interest in liquidating their holdings in the project.

Q: Why not lock in 100%?
A: Simply because we feel that it is only fair to allow the members of the LABCOIN team that wishes to sell smaller portions of their ownership should they need some Bitcoin for any unforeseen expense during the first year of operations.

burnside
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September 22, 2013, 08:49:27 AM
 #13310

I read the contract and to me it means they'll hold 30% indefinitely.  (IE, their profit comes from dividends, thus keeping them motivated.)

Really?  I remember them specifically saying that was not the case, and that they would sell up to 25% of their shares prior to the first 6 months.

Specifically in the contract, or specifically elsewhere?  The contract is the basis.  You can't put something in there and then post elsewhere "we didn't really mean that."

Either they meant that they'd hold them indefinitely, or they meant that they would not hold them indefinitely.  What purpose is there in the statement that they'd hold X% if as soon as the IPO completes they can just list those at will?  Thus my interpretation was that they meant indefinitely.

Lol, don't worry about it. I'm sure someone would have noticed.  It shouldn't have been posted without any context, and I think selling was the right move.  I still made a pretty big proft overall, and bought about half way back in

There are hundreds of pages of context here.

Yeah, it was in the thread.  Around the time of their IPO. I'm not sure if it was the Labcoin account or TheSwede.  But basically they said they felt that they should be able to sell some shares since they put in so much work on the project, but wouldn't sell any more then 25% in the first year. 

I understand that.  I bolded the part about why it still needs fixed.  New buyers look at the contract and news posts can not supersede it.

It's probably not a hard fix to make.

I have to go offline for a while now.  Will try to follow up on this tomorrow.

Cheers.

I'm not a Coinbase fan -- I placed a buy order, they took the funds out of my account, then a week later the price went up and they canceled the buy and closed my account.  You've been warned.  Use a different exchange.
Bitcycle
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September 22, 2013, 08:51:02 AM
 #13311


I understand that.  I bolded the part about why it still needs fixed.  New buyers look at the contract and news posts can not supersede it.



Then the time for you to address that would have been when they made the news post.

Why didn't you?
codegnome
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September 22, 2013, 08:52:14 AM
 #13312


I understand that.  I bolded the part about why it still needs fixed.  New buyers look at the contract and news posts can not supersede it.



Then the time for you to address that would have been when they made the news post.

Why didn't you?

Because he was and still is making bank on this security.

BitCsByBit
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September 22, 2013, 09:02:34 AM
 #13313

New payment - 0.2359384 BTC

Slightly higher then the hourly ones coming in so far.

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KCBitcoin
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September 22, 2013, 09:05:13 AM
 #13314


I understand that.  I bolded the part about why it still needs fixed.  New buyers look at the contract and news posts can not supersede it.



Then the time for you to address that would have been when they made the news post.

Why didn't you?
bcz they never replied
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September 22, 2013, 09:07:02 AM
 #13315

That's why it makes zero sense to say they're locked into a process node size once they get their cell library. There's no reason why someone couldn't just get multiple cell libraries for different technologies and design and simulate against both of them.  They would only have to chose at the very last minute, before they sent their order into the fab, so long as they ensure the computer generated physical designs simulate properly across all the libraries.

OH please, stop talking  nonsense. what you get from the fab is not just the cell library, its also all the design rules and parameters. You can ignore the cell library if you want, like bitfury apparently did, but you cant do any meaningful physical design without adhering to the process rules.  How are you going to implement one  if you dont even know what layers the process has,  transistor width, channel length, and a gazillion other process specific parameters and constraints? You seem to think producing an FPGA bitsteam is the same as designing an asic. Just a 5 minute resynthesis, right? Well its not (unless you go with Hardcopy or similar structured asic). The difference between them is the physical design phase and that is NOT process agnostic nor "automatic". Its usually the most laborious step in designing a chip.

Quote
Now it really sounds like you've never written software (or maybe aren't any good at it), because you can write software that runs on multiple architectures and operating systems really easily. You don't have to decide if you're writing a Windows program or Linux program before you start, even if you're using a language like C, C++.  You just use different libraries and have the compiler generate binaries for different CPUs.  

Yeah einstein, analogies break down. But if you want to continue it, HDL would be your pseudo code and what you get from the fab is the programming language and compiler (along with some sample code you may or may not use). It may be less work to port your code from Java to C++  than starting from scratch, but it aint no last minute job either.

Quote
It didn't even occur to me to ask, because it didn't even occur to me that you might have valid point.

Right. I get it. Because whats really important here is not whether or not Labcoin could ever deploy their 65nm asic before next spring, its who of us knows more about chip design right? Well, as it turns out, it seems I was on the money about labcoins inability and you were not. Probably just a coincidence.
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September 22, 2013, 09:08:30 AM
 #13316

I want to make a request to those who frequent this thread: stop bragging about your day trading conquests. keep that for your wives pls.
Ytterbium
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September 22, 2013, 09:11:42 AM
 #13317

New payment - 0.2359384 BTC

Slightly higher then the hourly ones coming in so far.

excess buildup from the scheduled payments.  I'm sure the hashrate on the site is correct. It's now back down to 760Gh/s. So they don't appear to have added any capacity yet.

To be honest, taking profits (if you have any) and limiting exposure to this stock is probably a good idea given all the craziness. I would rather have not sold, but having done so I don't feel like I really need to have as many shares as I did before, there's nothing else that looks like a good buy at this point so I'll probably just leave it as BTC and maybe re-buy if the price starts to crash again.

We really don't know if they'll be able to bring new hash power online, or how quickly that will happen.

That said, I thought the old warning was reasonable, but the new one he posted, with dire language and no context or explanation whatsoever at first was way over the top.

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September 22, 2013, 09:35:47 AM
 #13318

I'm glad i sold when i did. Had a nice profit, still some shares that i will hold,
but for now it doesn't look good. Even with 20TH or 50TH they won't be able
to pay dividents as high as IPO. And the way it seems we are far from being able
to sell any devices.

The 65nm will be late Q1 2014 at best, so this is a long term investment. If you
have the trust in Labcoin, that they will manage the problems with the chips they
have now and wil keep the timeline for 65nm it's a pretty good bet that you will profit
from shares, you bought cheap now, in Q2 2014.

I will hold the couple k shares i have left, because i always hold on to a small portion
of a stock after i made my profits.

Happy trading.

Donatioins always welcome Wink
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demzie
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September 22, 2013, 09:38:42 AM
 #13319

"Even with 20TH or 50TH they won't be able to pay dividents as high as IPO." ?

I dont get that.. So the dividend per share should be IPO price? If that happens.. We will be rich?
237
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September 22, 2013, 09:41:23 AM
 #13320

"Even with 20TH or 50TH they won't be able to pay dividents as high as IPO." ?

I dont get that.. So the dividend per share should be IPO price? If that happens..

I mean with difficulty change taken into account, the cumulated dividents won't reach
a value for IPO investors to break even.

Donatioins always welcome Wink
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