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Author Topic: [LABCOIN] IPO [BTCT.CO] - Details/FAQ and Discussion (ASIC dev/sales/mining)  (Read 1042122 times)
VolanicEruptor
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September 21, 2013, 06:46:47 PM
 #13001

Given the last 24 hours, the hash rate is about 300Gh/s at the mo.

It's insignificant and shouldn't be talked about.  That's what we refer to as "satoshi dust" after dividing it by 10,000,000 shares

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According to NIST and ECRYPT II, the cryptographic algorithms used in Bitcoin are expected to be strong until at least 2030. (After that, it will not be too difficult to transition to different algorithms.)
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September 21, 2013, 07:09:48 PM
 #13002

You keep talking as if the feature size for all of these chips was set in stone as soon as they started design work.  In fact if you read that post it doesn't even sound like they had picked whether they were going to do 130 or 65 nm:

Tthey signed an NDA with the fab and received the cell libraries in July. Its set in stone then. Still took >2 months to tape out and until february to hash. Note that these libraries are not only specific to a node size, but to a specific process at a specific fab.

Just out of curiosity, do you have any idea what people actually do with these cell libraries?  I don't mean "design the chip" but actually how they physically use them?  Because it doesn't sound like you actually have any idea.

Quote
Quote
The evidence you're presenting is totally irrelevant to the actual claim you made.

The evidence covers 100% of all other bitcoin asics. Whats your evidence it can be done substantially faster?

Again, all your claims are about how long it takes to go from the start of a design to finished silicon.  None of them have to do with how late in that process they could have finalized the hardware size.  The initial choices were likely made for financial reasons, and stuck with for the same reasons.

I don't know why you're hammering this point.  You said you didn't know what you're talking about, and obviously you haven't learned anything new in the past hour.

I also asked TheSeven about this in IRC:

Quote
[12:41] <TheSeven> HDL is fairly highlevel and doesn't care much about the node
...
[12:41] <TheSeven> however the synthesis, optimization and test of course isn't
...
[12:43] <TheSeven> the time from deciding on a process node and receiving chips in quantity highly depends on: the fab, the process node, how much you're willing to pay, and how much effort you want to put into optimization
...
[12:44] <TheSeven> if you have a deal with a university fab that gives you some spare space bi-weekly wafer runs, that will move a lot quicker than if you're a low priority customer on a shared wafer run of some fab
...
[12:44] <TheSeven> synthesis is automated, but you typically need to do it a few times if you want to reach high performance, tweaking some parameters

See that? synthesis is automated. The part that takes HDL describing the logic and generates a GDSII file containing the layers is done by computer.  If you want to generate at multiple node sizes, you can.  All you would need to do is get multiple cell libraries for different technologies, and synthesize in parallel.  It would mean less overall optimization, but you could maintain feature size flexibility up until tapeout, depending on your financial situation, since smaller nodes cost more.

This is how you actually figure things out, but the way.  If you don't know something you do research and find out.  You don't just randomly guess based on "common sense" and then argue that your random guess is correct without any evidence.

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September 21, 2013, 07:13:32 PM
 #13003

Is it painfully obvious to anyone else that Labcoin needs to get 7 more involved in their Gen 1 project? 
  1) He's well respected.
  2) He seems to know what he is talking about and isn't afraid to admit when he doesn't.
  3) He communicates well.
  4) He is already on the payroll... use him.
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September 21, 2013, 07:23:36 PM
 #13004

Just out of curiosity, do you have any idea what people actually do with these cell libraries?  I don't mean "design the chip" but actually how they physically use them?  Because it doesn't sound like you actually have any idea.

Are you serious? How do you "physically" use libraries? They are not collections of books you know.  Sure sounds like you are the one who has no idea what he is talking about. Go here for a primer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_design_(electronics)

Quote
See that? synthesis is automated.

Synthesizing is akin to compiling code. And what you are saying is akin to software development being automated because the computer does the compilation Thats great,  now if  only you can make it write the code

Look, believe what you want. Why dont you ask TheSeven if there is a snowballs chance in hell this chip will be deployed this year. Im guessing you already did but didnt feel like posting that part.
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September 21, 2013, 07:34:39 PM
 #13005

Is it painfully obvious to anyone else that Labcoin needs to get 7 more involved in their Gen 1 project? 
  1) He's well respected.
  2) He seems to know what he is talking about and isn't afraid to admit when he doesn't.
  3) He communicates well.
  4) He is already on the payroll... use him.

Agree.

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Pompobit
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September 21, 2013, 07:35:08 PM
 #13006

Why dont you ask TheSeven if there is a snowballs chance in hell this chip will be deployed this year. Im guessing you already did but didnt feel like posting that part.


something similar has been asked to him yesterday:

Quote
[15:44] <[7]> does that 500th/s plan involve 65nm chips?
[15:44] <[7]> this weird TSMC document suggests they're planning to do 65nm in Q1 2014
...
[15:48] <[7]> I'm confident that the interface circuitry for 65nm will be finalized this year, but I have no idea who's even going to implement the hashing core.
[15:48] <[7]> if they want me to do that, it would take months, and I wouldn't be very confident that it's going to actually work well
[15:48] <[7]> it's a complete redesign from scratch. at least if their plans haven't changed.
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September 21, 2013, 07:37:14 PM
 #13007

Why dont you ask TheSeven if there is a snowballs chance in hell this chip will be deployed this year. Im guessing you already did but didnt feel like posting that part.


something similar has been asked to him yesterday:

Quote
[15:44] <[7]> does that 500th/s plan involve 65nm chips?
[15:44] <[7]> this weird TSMC document suggests they're planning to do 65nm in Q1 2014
...
[15:48] <[7]> I'm confident that the interface circuitry for 65nm will be finalized this year, but I have no idea who's even going to implement the hashing core.
[15:48] <[7]> if they want me to do that, it would take months, and I wouldn't be very confident that it's going to actually work well
[15:48] <[7]> it's a complete redesign from scratch. at least if their plans haven't changed.

Gee, who'd have thought? IO might be done this year and thats by far the easiest and least critical part for a bitcoin chip.
Sounds like a tape out this year isnt even in the cards and that would make deployment by summer 2014  optimistic.  Well good luck labcoin investors!
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September 21, 2013, 07:39:13 PM
 #13008

Given the last 24 hours, the hash rate is about 300Gh/s at the mo.

It's insignificant and shouldn't be talked about.  That's what we refer to as "satoshi dust" after dividing it by 10,000,000 shares

Okay so from now on we refer to 300gh/s as "Valdemort".

Know what's happening in cryptoworld: www.coinschedule.com
VolanicEruptor
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September 21, 2013, 07:44:11 PM
 #13009

Given the last 24 hours, the hash rate is about 300Gh/s at the mo.

It's insignificant and shouldn't be talked about.  That's what we refer to as "satoshi dust" after dividing it by 10,000,000 shares

Okay so from now on we refer to 300gh/s as "Valdemort".

Sorry, I don't watch Teddy Ruxpin so I don't get the joke..

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September 21, 2013, 07:51:02 PM
 #13010

Given the last 24 hours, the hash rate is about 300Gh/s at the mo.

It's insignificant and shouldn't be talked about.  That's what we refer to as "satoshi dust" after dividing it by 10,000,000 shares

Okay so from now on we refer to 300gh/s as "Valdemort".

Sorry, I don't watch Teddy Ruxpin so I don't get the joke..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Voldemort
VolanicEruptor
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September 21, 2013, 08:27:25 PM
 #13011

Given the last 24 hours, the hash rate is about 300Gh/s at the mo.

It's insignificant and shouldn't be talked about.  That's what we refer to as "satoshi dust" after dividing it by 10,000,000 shares

Okay so from now on we refer to 300gh/s as "Valdemort".

Sorry, I don't watch Teddy Ruxpin so I don't get the joke..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Voldemort

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBxPZn0VsGQ&list=PLD2748F698F4B8C1C

TMAN
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September 21, 2013, 08:39:55 PM
 #13012

So guestimates what are we hashing at?
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September 21, 2013, 08:45:34 PM
 #13013

Given the last 24 hours, the hash rate is about 300Gh/s at the mo.
It's insignificant and shouldn't be talked about.  That's what we refer to as "satoshi dust" after dividing it by 10,000,000 shares
of course it's significant - without additional information, the only method we have of measuring hash rate is though manual calculation when a deposit is made. You're saying that the resulting per share value is too low to be a significant source of dividends, but that's not what's being discussed. The actual rate of (apparent) hashing is what is important to investors, and gives us an insight into the status of the production line. That's why the hash rate discussion is taking place.
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September 21, 2013, 08:59:30 PM
 #13014

So what's up with these payments?
VolanicEruptor
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September 21, 2013, 09:02:49 PM
 #13015

Given the last 24 hours, the hash rate is about 300Gh/s at the mo.
It's insignificant and shouldn't be talked about.  That's what we refer to as "satoshi dust" after dividing it by 10,000,000 shares
of course it's significant - without additional information, the only method we have of measuring hash rate is though manual calculation when a deposit is made. You're saying that the resulting per share value is too low to be a significant source of dividends, but that's not what's being discussed. The actual rate of (apparent) hashing is what is important to investors, and gives us an insight into the status of the production line. That's why the hash rate discussion is taking place.

A picture was recently posted of a list of Labcoins Avalon rigs listed in their pool profile.  It would be impossible to dig these up though, this thread is too much of a mess.  Fact is, they're using a few ancient avalons, NOT their own production.  So this IS insignificant.  

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September 21, 2013, 09:10:42 PM
 #13016

Given the last 24 hours, the hash rate is about 300Gh/s at the mo.
It's insignificant and shouldn't be talked about.  That's what we refer to as "satoshi dust" after dividing it by 10,000,000 shares
of course it's significant - without additional information, the only method we have of measuring hash rate is though manual calculation when a deposit is made. You're saying that the resulting per share value is too low to be a significant source of dividends, but that's not what's being discussed. The actual rate of (apparent) hashing is what is important to investors, and gives us an insight into the status of the production line. That's why the hash rate discussion is taking place.

A picture was recently posted of a list of Labcoins Avalon rigs listed in their pool profile.  It would be impossible to dig these up though, this thread is too much of a mess.  Fact is, they're using a few ancient avalons, NOT their own production.  So this IS insignificant.  

I read every single post and never seen that picture, just bullshit.
Fud
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September 21, 2013, 09:13:36 PM
 #13017

Given the last 24 hours, the hash rate is about 300Gh/s at the mo.
It's insignificant and shouldn't be talked about.  That's what we refer to as "satoshi dust" after dividing it by 10,000,000 shares
of course it's significant - without additional information, the only method we have of measuring hash rate is though manual calculation when a deposit is made. You're saying that the resulting per share value is too low to be a significant source of dividends, but that's not what's being discussed. The actual rate of (apparent) hashing is what is important to investors, and gives us an insight into the status of the production line. That's why the hash rate discussion is taking place.

A picture was recently posted of a list of Labcoins Avalon rigs listed in their pool profile.  It would be impossible to dig these up though, this thread is too much of a mess.  Fact is, they're using a few ancient avalons, NOT their own production.  So this IS insignificant.  

I read every single post and never seen that picture, just bullshit.
Fud


 oh okay..

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September 21, 2013, 09:15:32 PM
 #13018

they sold one of these a couple months back, maybe more but I cant read whatever language he speaks
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September 21, 2013, 09:16:18 PM
 #13019

Given the last 24 hours, the hash rate is about 300Gh/s at the mo.
It's insignificant and shouldn't be talked about.  That's what we refer to as "satoshi dust" after dividing it by 10,000,000 shares
of course it's significant - without additional information, the only method we have of measuring hash rate is though manual calculation when a deposit is made. You're saying that the resulting per share value is too low to be a significant source of dividends, but that's not what's being discussed. The actual rate of (apparent) hashing is what is important to investors, and gives us an insight into the status of the production line. That's why the hash rate discussion is taking place.

A picture was recently posted of a list of Labcoins Avalon rigs listed in their pool profile.  It would be impossible to dig these up though, this thread is too much of a mess.  Fact is, they're using a few ancient avalons, NOT their own production.  So this IS insignificant.  

I read every single post and never seen that picture, just bullshit.
Fud


 oh okay..

Hahahha shit you believe shit people post? If you believe something..
Read last posts of labcoin or theswede75..

All bullshit fud.. How would a forum member come by their login details to see that; hahaha

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September 21, 2013, 09:19:15 PM
 #13020

Given the last 24 hours, the hash rate is about 300Gh/s at the mo.
It's insignificant and shouldn't be talked about.  That's what we refer to as "satoshi dust" after dividing it by 10,000,000 shares
of course it's significant - without additional information, the only method we have of measuring hash rate is though manual calculation when a deposit is made. You're saying that the resulting per share value is too low to be a significant source of dividends, but that's not what's being discussed. The actual rate of (apparent) hashing is what is important to investors, and gives us an insight into the status of the production line. That's why the hash rate discussion is taking place.

A picture was recently posted of a list of Labcoins Avalon rigs listed in their pool profile.  It would be impossible to dig these up though, this thread is too much of a mess.  Fact is, they're using a few ancient avalons, NOT their own production.  So this IS insignificant.  

I read every single post and never seen that picture, just bullshit.
Fud


 oh okay..

The payouts don't reflect the speed of 3 avalon's though...more likely 4 of them if anything but who really knows at this point. (but I get your point)


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