BFL announces 28nm 600GH/S blade for $4680

[millsdmb]

*Tower with 12 slots required and not included

[ScaryHash]

Still waiting for my Jalepenos...

600 Gh/s on a PCI-e card? Maybe by November of 2017 ...

[Dalkore]

snip letter

A Bitcoiner

Mr. Gage,

With respect, I'm trying to work out your aims of continuing to post stuff about BFL here - you've made it quite clear that you don't approve of their business practices and that you think other people should not order from them, or trust them any more, but it's your end-game that confuses me.

Are you trying to put BFL out of business, or just dissuade people from placing any further order or trust with BFL, or is it just a personal vendetta you have against BFL because of some perceived or real slight from the past?

If the first, are you aware that if you succeed in your task, then there will be a lot of people on this forum who are waiting on good to be delivered that will be put out of pocket.  BFL are delivering the equipment ordered, albeit at a very slow pace, and I don't think you disagree with this fact.  If by some miracle you manage to cause BFL inconvenience e.g. having to respond to spurious FTC requests, or reply to letters from their landlord - it's just going to cost BFL money which they will have to pass onto their customers - members of this forum.  How do you justify this?

If it's the persuasion issue, then I think you have already succeeded, and to be honest, starting any campaign against their building management, or raising issues with the FTC, or any other active protests don't really help that cause.

If it's the latter, then I suppose there's not much I can do since it seems it's a personal issue that I'm not going to convince you otherwise, but do you really have to be so passionate about it?

Cheers,

Will

If something is built with a rotten foundation then it is in fact rotten.   Using the justification of the potential harm to customers as a reason not to right past wrongs in my opinion is the same line that is used to justify continue bad actions because fixing them will hurt people initially.  Food for thought.

What I don't like is seeing people taken advantage of and then treated with disrespect when other call it out.

.02BTC

[dan99]

Really don't why some people would still promote butterfly when it is a known Scam and a SCUM.

[vulgartrendkill]

Really don't why some people would still promote butterfly when it is a known Scam and a SCUM.

If it was a true scam, no one would have the hardware, and the hardware wouldn't work as advertised.

I think their problems are two fold:

1. bad organisation and production issues.
2.a very unfortunate COO.

Josh is the one who makes everyone doubt BFL what with his false promises and insults.

[scambutterflylabs]

http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/bfa390f78a

[PuertoLibre]

If something is built with a rotten foundation then it is in fact rotten.   Using the justification of the potential harm to customers as a reason not to right past wrongs in my opinion is the same line that is used to justify continue bad actions because fixing them will hurt people initially.  Food for thought.

What I don't like is seeing people taken advantage of and then treated with disrespect when other call it out.

.02BTC

Guy doing a conn in the subway: Common, buy you golden nickles right here!
Me: Hey buddy, they don't make them out of gold.
Guy doing a conn in the subway: Wazzup bitch!? Shit keep quiet, don't you understand that if you tell them that, then nobody buys?
Me: I understand that, but you are defrauding people of their expectations. It's gold you are selling right?
Guy doing a conn in the subway: No, no, no. I am selling these here golden nickles to them, not to you. So STFU!
Me: I understand <watches an innocent bystander about to give him money> Hey, it's not gold. It's paint.
Guy doing a conn in the subway: <Looks agitated> Hey common, that lady doesn't know that these are coated in normal gold to protect the nickle and...I swear...it's got white gold beneath. See? <Scratches golden paint off the nickle to provide "proof">
Me: Listen, they don't make nickles out of gold at the mint.
Guy doing a conn in the subway: Bitch, I will kill you!
Me: LOL.

Me: I am selling a golden dollar here tomorrow, so keep you money until then. <said to the innocent stooges>

[RChevalier]

There is a company selling apple pies.  I ordered my pie in august 2012.  When this pie gets to me, whenever that maybe, it will be no good.  It will have spoiled and I won't be able to eat it.  I am in the overwhelming majority of the customers who share this same predicament. 

There are the rare customers who did get their pie and did indeed eat it.  There are those that also got the pie within the time limit to still eat it and not get sick.  We know you people exist and we can only imagine how good the pie tasted.

If you are one of these people, it is usually poor form to talk about how great the pie tasted and how you'd get another, when most of who you address are still starving.  We blame the company for our malnutrition and will probably never give them our business again.  You bringing us news of your unique instances do nothing to enlighten us, it only makes us angry, and more hungry.

wow... I am so hungry...

[Its About Sharing]

It no longer makes sense for the customer to take the brunt of the risk when the majority (or close) of customers are looking at not even breaking even.

I don't see them being able to finish with the back log by end of September and didn't they say by end of August anyway?
Now, on top of that, how the heck are they going to Ship Monarch's before they finish with prior orders? Oh, I know, they won't build them in house. That is a nice convenient excuse.

I can't do this just on principal.

[nexus99]

I am almost willing to bet money that they will completely outsource the production of the monarch product. If they had done that with their other products they wouldn't be in the mess they are in now.

[Ytterbium]

I am almost willing to bet money that they will completely outsource the production of the monarch product. If they had done that with their other products they wouldn't be in the mess they are in now.

They would be able to if they hadn't tried to do an insane 350W monster.  A PCIe card is literally just a PCB, but you're not going to find an off the shelf, 2-slot cooling system that can handle that much heat.

[nexus99]

Doesn't a 6990 draw more power than that while under load?

[Ytterbium]

Doesn't a 6990 draw more power than that while under load?

Well, keep in mind AMD had to delay that card for months because of thermal issues.  You think BFL can ship on time where AMD had to delay for months?

[lucasjkr]

Plenty of ASIC resistant, CPU dominated alt-coins out there.  Just look at primecoin.  But bitcoin has first mover advantage and the most committed dev team so nothing to be done about it at this point.

Apple had first mover advantage for refined gui desktop OS'. Heck, it had first mover advantage for desktop pcs as well. Netscape had first mover advantage for commercial web browsers. Ford had first mover advantage for mass produced cars. And apple again had first mover advantage for tablets, full screen smartphones. They all lost out.

Bitcoin has first mover advantage, yes. But aside from the mining industry, not much else has sprung up, and everything else that has could easily be ported to a new blockchain. It's got mindshare, yes, but coupled with that mindshare, I think, are increasingly evident flaws. I won't be at all surprised if ultimately its another crypto currency that wins out. You could claim that the amount invested by miners in their operations will make them stay put, but even that can't be correct. After all,  the useful life of an investment is looking like its 3-4 months. All it takes is a desire to hope off the treadmill.

[Kaliecious]

Whats the chances Knc will up there gigs on their machines in lite of this supposed new product from BFL just so they can prove BFL is their bitch?

[PuertoLibre]

I am actually looking to make an excel sheet that gives people an idea of what Gh/s or Th/s they should have on them to keep making a profitable investment.

The problem is, I have no clue where to start. Such a sheet needs to account for alot of little but important bits.

Like how do you determine what is a good Gh/s to dollar ratio at any given difficulty? By profit?

[creativex]

Like how do you determine what is a good Gh/s to dollar ratio at any given difficulty? By profit?

Yes. Projected time till you reach a positive ROI.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Apple had first mover advantage for refined gui desktop OS'. Heck, it had first mover advantage for desktop pcs as well. Netscape had first mover advantage for commercial web browsers. Ford had first mover advantage for mass produced cars. And apple again had first mover advantage for tablets, full screen smartphones. They all lost out.

Bitcoin has first mover advantage, yes.

Those are pretty bad examples because they generally don't have a network effect (except to a minor extent phones and tablets although the ease of cross platform development has diminished that).

Some examples of early first mover products with network effect would be:
ebay - sure ebay sucks but competitors really couldn't break in because more users = more value and that is hard to beat.
paypal - same thing.  people love to bash paypal but surprisingly there is no paypal killer (not talking about Bitcoin just some "better" or less sucky centralized alternative.
gold - picked as commodity money for its properties (divisibility, inert, malliable, etc) however among commodities it is far from the most rare but it lasted due to inertia.
TCP/IP - what a clunked together protocol.  horribly ill suited for modern networks (the overhead of small packets of gigabit speed WAN links is insane) but it remains because it would be disruptive to change.
POTS (plain old telephone) - ancient, insanely expensive, low tech and although it is dying (slowly) it lasted decades despite the possibility of something superior replacing it.

All of these benefit from a network effect.  The more people using it, the more valuable the system becomes.  Bitcoin isn't software, it isn't even a service. Bitcoin is a protocol.  There is software than runs the Bitcoin protocol, and there is services which use that software but as a protocol Bitcoin simply needs to be useful enough to lay the foundation.
 
As far as Bitcoin being nothing but mining.  I would point to things like bitpay.  bitpay is one of those behind the scenes "boring" companies which unlock value.  It allows people to accept Bitcoins easily.   That adds to the network effect.  If a company can use bitpay to accept Bitcoins easily and other alternatives are harder and almost every potential customer who has "a" cryptocurrency has "the" cryptocurrency then there is little value in accepting alternatives.  It reinforces that compounding network effect.

I often get misquoted so to be clear.  I am not saying Bitcoin can't be replaced.  It certain can.  The network effect is a barrier to entry it isn't a force field.

[centove]

In all honesty, from their standpoint, it's not a bad way to clear some of the disgruntled backlog and avert the rest of the discontent from delayed products a few months.

 I'm curious, and apologies for sounding confrontational, but are you high right now ?

 This assumes that the world can trust Butterfly Labs to keep their word that they will ship on their stated schedule.

 History has clearly shown, repeatedly, that accurate scheduling is not one of Butterfly Labs' favorable qualities.

Ranks right up there with the speedy and pleasant customer service eh?

[lambdaE]

Doesn't a 6990 draw more power than that while under load?

Well, keep in mind AMD had to delay that card for months because of thermal issues.  You think BFL can ship on time where AMD had to delay for months?

You suggest the end of 2013 is not realistic?