Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[JoeGruff]

Found this on ebay

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Bitcoin-Mining-Computer-Prospero-X-3-2000Ghash-second-/111436704141?pt=Desktop_PCs&hash=item19f225298d&_uhb=1

And they're going to get a fraction of what they paid for it.

I'll be happy with a fraction. So far, after 7 months, return is 0.

[tempestb]

It wasn't.  If you change ebay.ca to ebay.com the exact same listing shows up.  This is true of any auction in another country's url.

[mazedk]

Lets get ready for the compensation then ....

[n00dles0up]

I messaged Minersource again, asking for an update on the LCD and compensation and to ask for a partial refund due to the lie I was told about my ordered being valued at $100 when it wasn't. So far it seems they dont give a shit and ignoring my emails.

So if anyone is considering buying from minersource, just stop, because as soon as you have an issue. They will ignore you!

[heslo]

I messaged Minersource again, asking for an update on the LCD and compensation and to ask for a partial refund due to the lie I was told about my ordered being valued at $100 when it wasn't. So far it seems they dont give a shit and ignoring my emails.

So if anyone is considering buying from minersource, just stop, because as soon as you have an issue. They will ignore you!

You honestly need to file a claim with the FTC to get their attention. Once you have their attention, they can be reasonable people from my experience.

ftccomplaintassistant.gov

Sad thing is it shouldn't come down to threats for someone to run their business in a respectable manner

[JoeGruff]

I messaged Minersource again, asking for an update on the LCD and compensation and to ask for a partial refund due to the lie I was told about my ordered being valued at $100 when it wasn't. So far it seems they dont give a shit and ignoring my emails.

So if anyone is considering buying from minersource, just stop, because as soon as you have an issue. They will ignore you!

You honestly need to file a claim with the FTC to get their attention. Once you have their attention, they can be reasonable people from my experience.

ftccomplaintassistant.gov

Sad thing is it shouldn't come down to threats for someone to run their business in a respectable manner

You don't like taxes but you like what those taxes pay for. In this case they pay to point guns at defenseless businesses. You can't eat your cake and have it too.

[Specialkey]

Bitcoin Difficulty:   19,729,645,941
Estimated Next Difficulty:   22,878,033,826 (+15.96%)
Adjust time:   After 442 Blocks, About 2.6 days
Hashrate(?):   163,380,712 GH/s

The X3 will be making less than $20 a day after the next jump.

In Febrauary it was 3000 the difficutly.
Normaly I could have  now 50 BTC. Now I have only a refund request.
Has nobody involved a lawyer?
Has anybody checked out chinese law about such a case?
Thanks for information.

[btct22]

Lets pay them a visit, who's keen?  F**cskng bastards!! 

[n00dles0up]

I messaged Minersource again, asking for an update on the LCD and compensation and to ask for a partial refund due to the lie I was told about my ordered being valued at $100 when it wasn't. So far it seems they dont give a shit and ignoring my emails.

So if anyone is considering buying from minersource, just stop, because as soon as you have an issue. They will ignore you!

You honestly need to file a claim with the FTC to get their attention. Once you have their attention, they can be reasonable people from my experience.

ftccomplaintassistant.gov

Thanks, I will do that later after work. I have had enough of being polite to them about this, I have wrote them long but coherent emails, never threatened them but this is taking the biscuit.

I'm guessing it doesn't matter than I am in the UK? Specifically what part of the website will I be following? Computers section?

Thanks Goozeman

[Biomech]

I messaged Minersource again, asking for an update on the LCD and compensation and to ask for a partial refund due to the lie I was told about my ordered being valued at $100 when it wasn't. So far it seems they dont give a shit and ignoring my emails.

So if anyone is considering buying from minersource, just stop, because as soon as you have an issue. They will ignore you!

You honestly need to file a claim with the FTC to get their attention. Once you have their attention, they can be reasonable people from my experience.

ftccomplaintassistant.gov

Sad thing is it shouldn't come down to threats for someone to run their business in a respectable manner

You don't like taxes but you like what those taxes pay for. In this case they pay to point guns at defenseless businesses. You can't eat your cake and have it too.

Agreed. I hate all the "call the authorities" bullshit. It rarely works, even if you have no morals. When it does, it just fosters more ill will.

[n00dles0up]

I messaged Minersource again, asking for an update on the LCD and compensation and to ask for a partial refund due to the lie I was told about my ordered being valued at $100 when it wasn't. So far it seems they dont give a shit and ignoring my emails.

So if anyone is considering buying from minersource, just stop, because as soon as you have an issue. They will ignore you!

You honestly need to file a claim with the FTC to get their attention. Once you have their attention, they can be reasonable people from my experience.

ftccomplaintassistant.gov

Thanks, I will do that later after work. I have had enough of being polite to them about this, I have wrote them long but coherent emails, never threatened them but this is taking the biscuit.

I'm guessing it doesn't matter than I am in the UK? Specifically what part of the website will I be following? Computers section?

Thanks Goozeman

Just do the one about not receiving an online order and no prompt refund was issued. It doesn't matter where you're located, only that the company you're filing a complaint against is under the FTC jurisdiction (which Minersource is).

Thanks for the help. I have just spent 20 minutes writing my story, I didnt want to do it, but minersource have forced me to do this. Hope they get destroyed by the complaint I made.

[Bogart]

My X3 seems to have a problem.  Every 24-48 hours one of the two units stops mining.  Always the same unit.

The PSU and NIC LEDs look normal, the fans are running, and the blue "heartbeat" LED visible through the left front fan is blinking as normal.

So far as abnormal LEDs, there are yellow LEDs visible through the rear fans (I assume these LEDs indicate that the hashing modules are idle), and the blue activity LEDs on the front do not blink as the normally do when mining.

The unit is unresponsive on the network.  It does not respond to ARP requests, and of course is equally unresponsive to ICMP pings and HTTP(S) requests (since those require ARP to work).

Yesterday I swapped the PSUs between the two units.  The problem did not follow the PSU.  The same miner still has the same problem.

 

(Both units are running software V1.8.)

 Bogart I am not doubting your network, I am assuming you replaced the network cable on the faulty machine, and changed ports on your switch already. Also, set up a ping watcher for the machine and watch the results for when it falls off.. this will tell a lot.

I tried swapping cables/switch ports, but that did not help matters.

Unfortunately I have a new problem now.  One of the power supplies seems to have died.  When powered-up the red and yellow LEDs come on briefly and then go out, and then repeat about every half second.

I tried swapping PSUs, and the problem does follow the PSU this time.

I also tried powering it using 120V instead of 240V as normal.  This lengthens the cycle time to about 2 seconds, but does not cause it to power on as normal.

I also tried powering it up outside of the miner with no load, but the behavior is the same.

The sticker on the PSU says it's "Sunshine Electronics model AP188".

I guess I'll try contacting BA and hope they will replace it under warranty.  It ran for 13 days before dying.

[btmtb]

I'm going to lay out very clearly and logically why this entire thing stinks and is a scam from top to bottom, even though there is at least some evidence that there is some effort to actually deliver a product here. To any of the schadenfreude "preorderlol you're dumb" crowd, that's nice you're more than welcome to feel good about yourselves.

A pre-order does not mean that Black Arrow has zero responsibility for delivering and gets to do whatever they want as they please whenever they want.

The agreement Black Arrow entered into with us was predicated on a set of representations of the project made by Black Arrow at the start, specifically that there is a design that BA is producing that meets certain specifications and requirements, and that the organization has the ability and intention to produce the ordered end products and services within roughly the agreed upon timeframe. Of course it's reasonable then in this framework for the delivery date to be an estimate, because of course there are going to be some unforseen issues in producing the end product.

Now once Black Arrow in the eleventh hour announced the original delay, we were no longer under the same agreement that we originally consented to, because in failing to produce a design that met the agreed upon specifications, we were no longer customers of the original project. It is at that point that BA is obligated to contact their customers to determine if they still want to be involved in the new terms of what they are producing, and offer either some kind of discount or enhancement of product, or a full refund if the customer no longer wanted to be part of this modified project that they did not agree to in the first place.

By failing to conduct themselves in a way that honors the way that they represented the original agreement, Black Arrow committed fraud by going ahead and using customer funds to produce a later and different fab than what was originally agreed. BA has an obligation to sort out this situation prior to going ahead and producing the fab. Just because a customer pays a company for a product or service, does not suddenly mean that the company is entitled to go ahead and force the customer into something that the customer never agreed to.

Now that we are faced with an even greater delay since BA received the finished fab than the original delay in the first place, we have to recognize that BA misrepresented their capability and willingness to actually honor delivering a finished retail product. Literally every single thing that BA said in order to solicit orders, which is well-documented even within this very thread, has proven to be a false misrepresentation of the facts of their conduct and performance.

This entire history of changing the agreement unilaterally without the consent of their customers means that the original agreement is long gone, and BA's unwillingness to recognize that reality means that as customers our only recourse is to bring this situation to legal channels where BA will finally be forced to liquidate their fraudulently-acquired assets and compensate customers for what they've cavalierly done without consent. As long as BA continues to maintain their perverse interpretation of the terms of the original agreement, i.e. that estimated delivery date means that they get to do whatever they please whenever they please, then there is not going to be any recourse in attempting to deal with BA (as though one could even actually contact them ever about it anyway!).

Eloquently and accurately put.

Now if only they gave a shit and made things right. We can only wish.

[heslo]

Well said! The only way I see this ending sadly is in the courts with BA being torn to scraps

[y_boonstra]

Well said! The only way I see this ending sadly is in the courts with BA being torn to scraps

so be it, better that this company closes its doors before more ppl get screwed

[Dallas5]

I'm going to lay out very clearly and logically why this entire thing stinks and is a scam from top to bottom, even though there is at least some evidence that there is some effort to actually deliver a product here. To any of the schadenfreude "preorderlol you're dumb" crowd, that's nice you're more than welcome to feel good about yourselves.

A pre-order does not mean that Black Arrow has zero responsibility for delivering and gets to do whatever they want as they please whenever they want.

The agreement Black Arrow entered into with us was predicated on a set of representations of the project made by Black Arrow at the start, specifically that there is a design that BA is producing that meets certain specifications and requirements, and that the organization has the ability and intention to produce the ordered end products and services within roughly the agreed upon timeframe. Of course it's reasonable then in this framework for the delivery date to be an estimate, because of course there are going to be some unforseen issues in producing the end product.

You can easily replace "Black Arrow" with "Minersource" and the same applies.

Minersource has broken so many laws and rules by not sending refunds and not informing customers about delays. I'm still waiting for a refund like many others. If minersource was located in my country they would be bankrupt and the owners in jail.

[heslo]

I'm going to lay out very clearly and logically why this entire thing stinks and is a scam from top to bottom, even though there is at least some evidence that there is some effort to actually deliver a product here. To any of the schadenfreude "preorderlol you're dumb" crowd, that's nice you're more than welcome to feel good about yourselves.

A pre-order does not mean that Black Arrow has zero responsibility for delivering and gets to do whatever they want as they please whenever they want.

The agreement Black Arrow entered into with us was predicated on a set of representations of the project made by Black Arrow at the start, specifically that there is a design that BA is producing that meets certain specifications and requirements, and that the organization has the ability and intention to produce the ordered end products and services within roughly the agreed upon timeframe. Of course it's reasonable then in this framework for the delivery date to be an estimate, because of course there are going to be some unforseen issues in producing the end product.

You can easily replace "Black Arrow" with "Minersource" and the same applies.

Minersource has broken so many laws and rules by not sending refunds and not informing customers about delays. I'm still waiting for a refund like many others. If minersource was located in my country they would be bankrupt and the owners in jail.

A-fucking-men!

They've dicked me around for months now, no seeming response to my emails other than generated mass responses of the same bullshit I've been fed for so long now telling me I can't get a refund because it's a pre-order. My gut tells me their hemorrhaging money and are close to going under; I feel we may never see a refund.

[Dallas5]

I'm going to lay out very clearly and logically why this entire thing stinks and is a scam from top to bottom, even though there is at least some evidence that there is some effort to actually deliver a product here. To any of the schadenfreude "preorderlol you're dumb" crowd, that's nice you're more than welcome to feel good about yourselves.

A pre-order does not mean that Black Arrow has zero responsibility for delivering and gets to do whatever they want as they please whenever they want.

The agreement Black Arrow entered into with us was predicated on a set of representations of the project made by Black Arrow at the start, specifically that there is a design that BA is producing that meets certain specifications and requirements, and that the organization has the ability and intention to produce the ordered end products and services within roughly the agreed upon timeframe. Of course it's reasonable then in this framework for the delivery date to be an estimate, because of course there are going to be some unforseen issues in producing the end product.

You can easily replace "Black Arrow" with "Minersource" and the same applies.

Minersource has broken so many laws and rules by not sending refunds and not informing customers about delays. I'm still waiting for a refund like many others. If minersource was located in my country they would be bankrupt and the owners in jail.

A-fucking-men!

They've dicked me around for months now, no seeming response to my emails other than generated mass responses of the same bullshit I've been fed for so long now telling me I can't get a refund because it's a pre-order. My gut tells me their hemorrhaging money and are close to going under; I feel we may never see a refund.

In april, I made a binding agreement with Matt from minersource which stated they would send me a refund. I'm still waiting.

Someone should create a new thread for Minersource 'victims' this might grab their attention to issue refunds faster, one that isn't moderated by black arrow.

[heslo]

I'm going to lay out very clearly and logically why this entire thing stinks and is a scam from top to bottom, even though there is at least some evidence that there is some effort to actually deliver a product here. To any of the schadenfreude "preorderlol you're dumb" crowd, that's nice you're more than welcome to feel good about yourselves.

A pre-order does not mean that Black Arrow has zero responsibility for delivering and gets to do whatever they want as they please whenever they want.

The agreement Black Arrow entered into with us was predicated on a set of representations of the project made by Black Arrow at the start, specifically that there is a design that BA is producing that meets certain specifications and requirements, and that the organization has the ability and intention to produce the ordered end products and services within roughly the agreed upon timeframe. Of course it's reasonable then in this framework for the delivery date to be an estimate, because of course there are going to be some unforseen issues in producing the end product.

You can easily replace "Black Arrow" with "Minersource" and the same applies.

Minersource has broken so many laws and rules by not sending refunds and not informing customers about delays. I'm still waiting for a refund like many others. If minersource was located in my country they would be bankrupt and the owners in jail.

A-fucking-men!

They've dicked me around for months now, no seeming response to my emails other than generated mass responses of the same bullshit I've been fed for so long now telling me I can't get a refund because it's a pre-order. My gut tells me their hemorrhaging money and are close to going under; I feel we may never see a refund.

In april, I made a binding agreement with Matt from minersource which stated they would send me a refund. I'm still waiting.

Someone should create a new thread for Minersource 'victims' this might grab their attention to issue refunds faster, one that isn't moderated by black arrow.

I did find this...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=705442.0

and this...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=684263.0

[EricKennedy]

Update : we just received 10 Prospero X3 (20x 1Th hashing units).
Our order seems to be complete, without of course 5 more compensation units (no idea when we'll receive)