Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[ORabbit]

After running some numbers, I am willing to pay $25 per chip.  If you have chips on the way or in hand and are interested in getting out of the game, please let me know.  Will buy in packs of 8.  Due to the length it may take to get these onto boards and actually hashing, that is the best price I can give at this time.

I think most everyone would be willing to pay 25 bucks per chip. After assembly that's somewhere south of $1 per GH/S.

8 chips for a 4 chip board. = $200
and 150 bucks for coolers and PSU and controller.

$350 for 400-480 GH/S.

Not a bad deal.

Yea, but look at the uncertainties.  It is 2 to 4 weeks to get them put onto the boards once Technobit gets them.  It could take a week or more to get Technobit the chips, plus time to mail back, setup, and get everything running.  You are probably looking at miners 3 to 6 weeks down the road, and who knows what the environment would be like.  I am hesitant at $25 ea, and I probably won't take many at that price before dropping down to $20 or below.

Dude, you have balls of steel. Trying to influence the market value of these chips in such an obvious way. I know you've got your twisted little heart set on sinking the company and making the enigineers cry, but you're taking it too far. Now maybe your price is a fair street price, but tell me why you suddenly want anything to do with a BA product after the amount of vitriol you've spewed in their direction?

[Unacceptable]

After running some numbers, I am willing to pay $25 per chip.  If you have chips on the way or in hand and are interested in getting out of the game, please let me know.  Will buy in packs of 8.  Due to the length it may take to get these onto boards and actually hashing, that is the best price I can give at this time.

I think most everyone would be willing to pay 25 bucks per chip. After assembly that's somewhere south of $1 per GH/S.

8 chips for a 4 chip board. = $200
and 150 bucks for coolers and PSU and controller.

$350 for 400-480 GH/S.

Not a bad deal.

Yea, but look at the uncertainties.  It is 2 to 4 weeks to get them put onto the boards once Technobit gets them.  It could take a week or more to get Technobit the chips, plus time to mail back, setup, and get everything running.  You are probably looking at miners 3 to 6 weeks down the road, and who knows what the environment would be like.  I am hesitant at $25 ea, and I probably won't take many at that price before dropping down to $20 or below.

Dude, you have balls of steel. Trying to influence the market value of these chips in such an obvious way. I know you've got your twisted little heart set on sinking the company and making the enigineers cry, but you're taking it too far. Now maybe your price is a fair street price, but tell me why you suddenly want anything to do with a BA product after the amount of vitriol you've spewed in their direction?

It's about making money/BTC.......same as,why would anyone buy anything from Avalon 

[ORabbit]

After running some numbers, I am willing to pay $25 per chip.  If you have chips on the way or in hand and are interested in getting out of the game, please let me know.  Will buy in packs of 8.  Due to the length it may take to get these onto boards and actually hashing, that is the best price I can give at this time.

I think most everyone would be willing to pay 25 bucks per chip. After assembly that's somewhere south of $1 per GH/S.

8 chips for a 4 chip board. = $200
and 150 bucks for coolers and PSU and controller.

$350 for 400-480 GH/S.

Not a bad deal.

Yea, but look at the uncertainties.  It is 2 to 4 weeks to get them put onto the boards once Technobit gets them.  It could take a week or more to get Technobit the chips, plus time to mail back, setup, and get everything running.  You are probably looking at miners 3 to 6 weeks down the road, and who knows what the environment would be like.  I am hesitant at $25 ea, and I probably won't take many at that price before dropping down to $20 or below.

Dude, you have balls of steel. Trying to influence the market value of these chips in such an obvious way. I know you've got your twisted little heart set on sinking the company and making the enigineers cry, but you're taking it too far. Now maybe your price is a fair street price, but tell me why you suddenly want anything to do with a BA product after the amount of vitriol you've spewed in their direction?

It's about making money/BTC.......same as,why would anyone buy anything from Avalon  

I get it, but I got the impression that ANY price was too high for Mr. James Stuart. It just plays out to me as either a two-faced money grab, or a sabotage attempt.

[TheMinex]

Noone speaking about "Minion powered at 0.6V and the efficiency is 0.5W/ghash at the wall @ 50 Gh/s" ?

When will we see this result on an X1 or X3  
X1 working at this state could be the one low hashrate capable to run standalone in high efficiency
On X3 could be the only way for ppl who order a large amount of HW to handle compensation ( total power draw problmes )

Why work on X2, when few lines of code (+ few hours of 1 person ) can solve this givin you (very) little better immage @ cost near zero ?? 

[TheMinex]

Noone speaking about "Minion powered at 0.6V and the efficiency is 0.5W/ghash at the wall @ 50 Gh/s" ?

When will we see this result on an X1 or X3  
X1 working at this state could be the one low hashrate capable to run standalone in high efficiency
On X3 could be the only way for ppl who order a large amount of HW to handle compensation ( total power draw problmes )

Why work on X2, when few lines of code (+ few hours of 1 person ) can solve this givin you (very) little better immage @ cost near zero ??  

Lets do a little math here, 0.5W/Gh/s @ 50Gh/s = 1.2W/Gh/s @ 120Gh/s.

Ok, let's do some math (let's assume 5w x control board, we will not consider HW cost cause is the same in both cases) :

0.5 @ 50 + 5 = 30W total power draw = 0.720KWh daily @ 0.2 $/Kwh = OPERATIVE COST 0.144 $ --- BTC mined @ current diff 0.001495 = 0,9269 $/day

1 w/Gh/s (not 1,2 !!!) @120 Gh/s = 120 W and let's include control board = 2.88KWh @ 0.2 = 0.576$ --- BTC mined = 0.003588 = 2,2245 $/day

You can make 0.78$ day spending 0,144$ or 1.65$ day spending 0.576$.  Both are resonable but I prefer first option cause difficulty break even is much more far, as well as the probability of smaller adjustments.

Not to mention the fact that for someone who bought some X3 could be happy to comsume much more than half + probably not need A/C cooling.

[TheMinex]

It's 1W/Gh/s @ 100Gh/s at the wall, the efficiency is the same no matter how you clock and volt it. They even mentioned this fact when they first got their chips.

pls link

Efficiency for now is fixed cause voltages are locked @ 0,8 V, so by real measurement X1 has the same W/Gh/s clocked at 800Mhz or 1000Mhz. Let it run @ 500Mhz and drop the voltage @ 0,6 V et voilà efficiency will magically rise. Losses on voltage regulators will drop too. Every chip has its own limits but can perform differently depending on the working zone.

If the control board is capable of this ( there are some post where i ask it) what are they waiting for

[y_boonstra]

WTF..

why did PENTAX and my post got delted ?

[Blockhunter]

Question: The difficulty is raising too fast! Will my miner produce any BTC by the time it ships?

Answer: Your miner will produce the most bitcoins compared to any other similar priced miner. We think the rising quota in network difficulty should slow down as the power hungry hardware currently on the market will not be soon worth running. With our products we try and make the best design possible for the 28nm process node. We have optimized the chip towards best efficiency and raise the hashing power while ensuring stability. The next step as we see it will be a lower process node. Every possible optimization has been done on our products.

Furthermore, the price per BTC is increasing at an ever increasing rate. As the price increases it will offset the difficulty.

[bobsag3]

It's 1W/Gh/s @ 100Gh/s at the wall, the efficiency is the same no matter how you clock and volt it. They even mentioned this fact when they first got their chips.

Incorrect.
Chips are 1w/gh @ 120gh, ~.85w/gh @ 100gh. Tested on live units.

[jedimstr]

Hey Bobsag, was the surprise ever revealed and I missed it?  Or is it still under wraps?

Surprise was that BA was not going to Price/Hashrate Match per their previous promises....

Surprise!

[primer10]

Incorrect.
Chips are 1w/gh @ 120gh, ~.85w/gh @ 100gh. Tested on live units.

Sure. Even with what you said, compared to S3

              S3                     BA             Hex4M
Cost       450 (0.725btc)    4x360?       205 Euro + cost of 4 Minions
Avail      10-20 July             ??             2 to 4 weeks once Minion chips arrive (when?)
Power      366W                4x120W       4x120W
Speed      478GH               480GH          480GH


Enuff said.

[ORabbit]

I was going to post this in the group buy thread, but bobsag3 locked it. I hope this is helpful for those thinking about exchanging for bare chips.


Fisrt of all, paying for assembly with chips is a pretty good deal. You're getting a value of $69.75  per chip from Technobit. Much better than the $35 or $25 others are offering. Who are the vultures?

Assuming 1 X3, that's 100 chips. You end up with 12 boards, with four chips left over. 8 chips per board - that's 4 in the board, and 4 for payment.
So a grand total of 4.8 TH consuming ~4800 W.

Additional costs include coolers for each mounted chip, so in this case 48 coolers. Any socket 1150 cooler will work, but it needs to dissipate 100W. Also you'll need ATX PSUs to power them. In my opinion, I'd go with 12 500W units rather than powering multiple units with one PSU. The 1000W+ PSUs get proportionally more expensive. 500W units are much more common and cheaper per watt. YMMV.

So I found some 100W coolers for $10 a pop. If you want beefier ones, you'll pay as much as $25 a pop. So between $500 and $1200 for coolers.
I also found a well reviewed 500W PSU on sale for $25 after MIR. But you can easily find them for $50. So between $300 and $600 for PSUs.

So let's take a middlish price and say $1200 in additional out of pocket expense for 12 boards, or $100 per board to get them running. Plus you still have 4 chips which you could have mounted on a 13th board for $279.

So you would end up with 5.2 gh/s for an extra $1600. That's about 60% more hashing power. Is it worth it, or is it throwing good money after bad? You decide for yourself.

[bobsag3]

I was going to post this in the group buy thread, but bobsag3 locked it. I hope this is helpful for those thinking about exchanging for bare chips.


Fisrt of all, paying for assembly with chips is a pretty good deal. You're getting a value of $69.75  per chip from Technobit. Much better than the $35 or $25 others are offering. Who are the vultures?

Assuming 1 X3, that's 100 chips. You end up with 12 boards, with four chips left over. 8 chips per board - that's 4 in the board, and 4 for payment.
So a grand total of 4.8 TH consuming ~4800 W.

Additional costs include coolers for each mounted chip, so in this case 48 coolers. Any socket 1150 cooler will work, but it needs to dissipate 100W. Also you'll need ATX PSUs to power them. In my opinion, I'd go with 12 500W units rather than powering multiple units with one PSU. The 1000W+ PSUs get proportionally more expensive. 500W units are much more common and cheaper per watt. YMMV.

So I found some 100W coolers for $10 a pop. If you want beefier ones, you'll pay as much as $25 a pop. So between $500 and $1200 for coolers.
I also found a well reviewed 500W PSU on sale for $25 after MIR. But you can easily find them for $50. So between $300 and $600 for PSUs.

So let's take a middlish price and say $1200 in additional out of pocket expense for 12 boards, or $100 per board to get them running. Plus you still have 4 chips which you could have mounted on a 13th board for $279.

So you would end up with 5.2 gh/s for an extra $1600. That's about 60% more hashing power. Is it worth it, or is it throwing good money after bad? You decide for yourself.

Thread is still open, just now self moderated so we can keep it to discussions like this.

[nexus99]

Question: The difficulty is raising too fast! Will my miner produce any BTC by the time it ships?

Answer: Your miner will produce the most bitcoins compared to any other similar priced miner. We think the rising quota in network difficulty should slow down as the power hungry hardware currently on the market will not be soon worth running. With our products we try and make the best design possible for the 28nm process node. We have optimized the chip towards best efficiency and raise the hashing power while ensuring stability. The next step as we see it will be a lower process node. Every possible optimization has been done on our products.

Furthermore, the price per BTC is increasing at an ever increasing rate. As the price increases it will offset the difficulty.

Ok, the whole idea that the hash rate will drop as older equipment is retired is probably very far from reality.
Hash rate growth will level off as people consume their entire supply of electricity with 28nm equipment. We haven't hit the top yet by any stretch of the imagination. Hashrate will not be dropping.

[nexus99]

I was going to post this in the group buy thread, but bobsag3 locked it. I hope this is helpful for those thinking about exchanging for bare chips.


Fisrt of all, paying for assembly with chips is a pretty good deal. You're getting a value of $69.75  per chip from Technobit. Much better than the $35 or $25 others are offering. Who are the vultures?

Assuming 1 X3, that's 100 chips. You end up with 12 boards, with four chips left over. 8 chips per board - that's 4 in the board, and 4 for payment.
So a grand total of 4.8 TH consuming ~4800 W.

Additional costs include coolers for each mounted chip, so in this case 48 coolers. Any socket 1150 cooler will work, but it needs to dissipate 100W. Also you'll need ATX PSUs to power them. In my opinion, I'd go with 12 500W units rather than powering multiple units with one PSU. The 1000W+ PSUs get proportionally more expensive. 500W units are much more common and cheaper per watt. YMMV.

So I found some 100W coolers for $10 a pop. If you want beefier ones, you'll pay as much as $25 a pop. So between $500 and $1200 for coolers.
I also found a well reviewed 500W PSU on sale for $25 after MIR. But you can easily find them for $50. So between $300 and $600 for PSUs.

So let's take a middlish price and say $1200 in additional out of pocket expense for 12 boards, or $100 per board to get them running. Plus you still have 4 chips which you could have mounted on a 13th board for $279.

So you would end up with 5.2 gh/s for an extra $1600. That's about 60% more hashing power. Is it worth it, or is it throwing good money after bad? You decide for yourself.

Thread is still open, just now self moderated so we can keep it to discussions like this.

Batch 2 X-1 units have no compensation correct?

[MrTeal]

Incorrect.
Chips are 1w/gh @ 120gh, ~.85w/gh @ 100gh. Tested on live units.

Sure. Even with what you said, compared to S3

              S3                     BA             Hex4M
Cost       450 (0.725btc)    4x360?       205 Euro + cost of 4 Minions
Avail      10-20 July             ??             2 to 4 weeks once Minion chips arrive (when?)
Power      366W                4x120W       4x120W
Speed      478GH               480GH          480GH


Enuff said.

To be fair, with the groupbuy for these boards they'll be 20% off, so ~US$223. You didn't add on $80 in heatsinks if you can get a deal and say 1/4 of a TPLINK router (assuming running four boards off one) for $13, so you're at ~$320 plus the cost of chips and shipping back and forth.

Obviously just getting a refund is the best option, but if you assume that refunds from BA will be slow to come (or never arrive) getting a Hex4M might be worthwhile.

Sending in 2x the chips and getting an assembled boards is a much better deal though. If you have an X3, sending 96 chips in and getting 12 boards for only shipping and $1300 for heatsinks and TPLINK routers is a great deal. Sure you need to add 6kW worth of power supplies, but you'd have to add almost that much worth for the S3s anyway.

[MrTeal]

I was going to post this in the group buy thread, but bobsag3 locked it. I hope this is helpful for those thinking about exchanging for bare chips.


Fisrt of all, paying for assembly with chips is a pretty good deal. You're getting a value of $69.75  per chip from Technobit. Much better than the $35 or $25 others are offering. Who are the vultures?

Assuming 1 X3, that's 100 chips. You end up with 12 boards, with four chips left over. 8 chips per board - that's 4 in the board, and 4 for payment.
So a grand total of 4.8 TH consuming ~4800 W.

Additional costs include coolers for each mounted chip, so in this case 48 coolers. Any socket 1150 cooler will work, but it needs to dissipate 100W. Also you'll need ATX PSUs to power them. In my opinion, I'd go with 12 500W units rather than powering multiple units with one PSU. The 1000W+ PSUs get proportionally more expensive. 500W units are much more common and cheaper per watt. YMMV.

So I found some 100W coolers for $10 a pop. If you want beefier ones, you'll pay as much as $25 a pop. So between $500 and $1200 for coolers.
I also found a well reviewed 500W PSU on sale for $25 after MIR. But you can easily find them for $50. So between $300 and $600 for PSUs.

So let's take a middlish price and say $1200 in additional out of pocket expense for 12 boards, or $100 per board to get them running. Plus you still have 4 chips which you could have mounted on a 13th board for $279.

So you would end up with 5.2 gh/s for an extra $1600. That's about 60% more hashing power. Is it worth it, or is it throwing good money after bad? You decide for yourself.

After MIR price is only useful if you are buying a couple since almost no MIR will let you get a rebate for 12 units. You'd probably be better off (and get a much better supply) if you bought four of Sidehack's DPS-2000B boards with cables for $366 along with four PSUs off eBay for $120, and ran four boards off each one.

[primer10]

Incorrect.
Chips are 1w/gh @ 120gh, ~.85w/gh @ 100gh. Tested on live units.

Sure. Even with what you said, compared to S3

              S3                     BA             Hex4M
Cost       450 (0.725btc)    4x360?       205 Euro + cost of 4 Minions
Avail      10-20 July             ??             2 to 4 weeks once Minion chips arrive (when?)
Power      366W                4x120W       4x120W
Speed      478GH               480GH          480GH


Enuff said.

To be fair, with the groupbuy for these boards they'll be 20% off, so ~US$223. You didn't add on $80 in heatsinks if you can get a deal and say 1/4 of a TPLINK router (assuming running four boards off one) for $13, so you're at ~$320 plus the cost of chips and shipping back and forth.

Obviously just getting a refund is the best option, but if you assume that refunds from BA will be slow to come (or never arrive) getting a Hex4M might be worthwhile.

Sending in 2x the chips and getting an assembled boards is a much better deal though. If you have an X3, sending 96 chips in and getting 12 boards for only shipping and $1300 for heatsinks and TPLINK routers is a great deal. Sure you need to add 6kW worth of power supplies, but you'd have to add almost that much worth for the S3s anyway.

Fair enough. Good deal if $223 includes the price of 4 Minion chips.

Let's say without the TPLINK router and PSU, since you need one for S3 as well. Hex4M with heatsink comes to about ~$300.

Price diff: $150
Power Diff: 114W

Hex4M would be a better choice than S3, assuming power cost is 10cents per kWH.

EDIT: Correction, you do not need TPLINK for S3.

[sorehammer]

Bobsag3 is the compensation the same for batch 1 as 2 as batch 1 paid more

[ORabbit]

After MIR price is only useful if you are buying a couple since almost no MIR will let you get a rebate for 12 units. You'd probably be better off (and get a much better supply) if you bought four of Sidehack's DPS-2000B boards with cables for $366 along with four PSUs off eBay for $120, and ran four boards off each one.

Good point. Looks like those boards aren't available yet? Here's the link to the pre-order for those that want to investigate.