Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[me2014]

Chips sent out by BA today.

Regarding the coolers: anyone found an interesting (possibly cheaper) alternative to the Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro Rev. 2?

I am done too B-) so long BA :DD I am w8ing for someone to post about cheapest possible parts we need for those boards but still good for hashing..I think we should make the thread about that..

[1715005201]

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[y_boonstra]

I think the best we could do for part that still need to be orderd for completing these miners is that ppl fomr the same country / state group together so you could make a substantial volume, this way you could get a higher discount!

[Dot99lr]

Chips sent out by BA today.

Regarding the coolers: anyone found an interesting (possibly cheaper) alternative to the Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro Rev. 2?

I am done too B-) so long BA :DD I am w8ing for someone to post about cheapest possible parts we need but still good for hashing..I think we should make the thread about that..

With so many people bailing for chips and requesting refunds, and since their units have been in production for many weeks now (according to BA since they couldn't un-build them to offer refunds), they should have plenty of units laying around to increase the compensation.

[sarcasm] I can't wait to hear the new plan. Waiting it out will all be worth it, you'll see. We chose the right company! Eat it Bitmaintech![/sarcasm]

[HardwareReviewer]

Chips sent out by BA today.

Regarding the coolers: anyone found an interesting (possibly cheaper) alternative to the Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro Rev. 2?

It is 25$ but there is a 7$ coupon posted for it, so lower than 18$? Probably not.

I must have missed the part about the coupon?

[HardwareReviewer]

Chips sent out by BA today.

Regarding the coolers: anyone found an interesting (possibly cheaper) alternative to the Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro Rev. 2?

It is 25$ but there is a 7$ coupon posted for it, so lower than 18$? Probably not.

I must have missed the part about the coupon?

Someone just posted it today, Use this on Newegg EMCPCWP47

Great, thanks.

[DocNougat]

Well I think I pissed David off at the official BA thread, he keeps deleting all of my posts

[ChuckBuck]

BA deleting posts left and right for pointing out cold truths?

They just like their big bro BFL.

[DocNougat]

BA deleting posts left and right for pointing out cold truths?

They just like their big bro BFL.

Haha, mine got deleted for giving people a diversion from their misery. To be exact, these are the two items David has determined to be irrelevant:

Because we are all rats in BA's cage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-r-V0uK4u0

And because we could all use a Miracle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-agl0pOQfs

[Dot99lr]

PG, say it ain't so!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=667460.0

[primer10]

BA deleting posts left and right for pointing out cold truths?

They just like their big bro BFL.

Haha, mine got deleted for giving people a diversion from their misery. To be exact, these are the two items David has determined to be irrelevant:

Because we are all rats in BA's cage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-r-V0uK4u0

And because we could all use a Miracle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-agl0pOQfs

I wouldn't even waste time creating an account on the useless website... obviously david has time to delete posts but nothing constructive to post. I wonder why they have this position since it is obviously a postman job

[Scrappy Do]

4. To cover time used to refund this order, for each transfer needed to be made, we will charge 50 USD and all 3rd party fees. In some cases, we might also need to charge a further 30 USD handling fee for each incorrect or incomplete transfer information provided by the customer.

taking 80 bucks to cancel an order? they cant be serious lol

 Seriously, don't complain, I just lost 50% on an Alpha Technoligies request, (over $3k USD) ifffff I even ever see it.

What do you mean? What happened?

 Check my previous posts... Alpha is fucking people left and right.

 I hit my lick in DOGE in DEC. I hit 88 million in the first 16 hours of coin being up. I gave away over 3 million in irc channel to friends as I looked at it as a joke as many. I sold all at 238, and reinvested in companys like BA, LTCGear, and Alpha tech. LTCGear is the only one to not deliver but actually pay weekly of the 3 I invested in.

 I have numerous threads of Alpha Tech and the way they fuck customers, and their commitments. They claimed worlds first asic scrypt. Wow they lost that hard core. Gridseed fucked them up. And yet they aren't the ones that buried them. I have lodged complaints in the UK and they were on deaf ears... "Cross Border"

 I asked for a full refund, was banned from their forums for doing so, and now pray that after they changed the TOA I get half... My down payment or deposit was  $6500.00 USD. They say I could issue a refund now at 50% of initial deposit, (which was initially 100%) yet I sent an email over 65 days ago requesting a refund. Guess what... no response...

Sorry to hear that. I have an order there too. So I guess the 15-31 July shipment date is another joke?

Same here, but I haven't sent them the rest of the $ since they cant get their CC system up. Worst case my CC will give me back what I paid them a 100%.
Quit making me worried any more then I have already over my X3s. lol

Guys they are EU based.. their ToS aint vallid if they broken their promisses!
They also stated that would only give 1 year warrenty, also this is not valid. EU regulations obligates companys to provide at least 2 years of warrenty !

He's right.

Although there are some differences in UK law they cannot do that.  And as we've said a zillion times here anything that conflicts with existing law in anyone's contract is void.

anyhow:  http://sogahub.tradingstandards.gov.uk/Explained


I also see a lot of people saying pre-orders must die, pre-orders must die!

and they should.  for that to happen the simplest methodology is to make these people adhere to the law.  File compaints.  File lawsuits singly or as groups.  These companies are breaking the law left and right and people let them get away with it.  As long as that continues, pre-orders will continue as they are, these companies will continue to fail to meet their promises and people will continue getting screwed by these people that are by all evidence operating outside the law.

Know your rights and make them uphold them.   It's a 30 second google search for shit's sake.  

In the UK, which is relevant for Alpha customers and may be relevant to BA if the attorneys determine that  the UK is proper venue, which is being investigated now.

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-contracts-regulations

Your right to cancel  Your right to cancel an order for goods starts the moment you place your order and ends 14 days from the day you receive your goods.

If your order consists of multiple goods, the 14 days runs form when you get the last of the batch.
This 14 day period is the time you have to decide whether to cancel, you then have a further 14 days to actually send the goods back.
Your right to a refund  You should get a refund within 14 days of either the trader getting the goods back, or you providing evidence of having returned the goods (for example, a proof of postage receipt from the post office), whichever is the sooner.
A deduction can be made if the value of the goods has been reduced as a result of the you handling the goods more than was necessary.
The extent to which a customer can handle the goods is the same as it would be if you were assessing them in a shop.

Refunding the cost of delivery  The trader has to refund the basic delivery cost of getting the goods to you in the first place, so if you opted for enhanced service eg guaranteed next day, it only has to refund the basic cost.

 Wow guys I never anticipated this much support over my little rant. Please read here and you will see what all I have tried.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=651566.0
and
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=637202.0
and
https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=20441.0

 I know it's a lot, but I am at a dead end. I did file a complaint and here was their last response:

Dear Mr XXXXX, 
Thank you for your response to Citizens Advice consumer service dated 24th June and the further information you provided.
I can confirm that this information will be forwarded to the appropriate Trading Standards Authority for information/intelligence purposes.
Unfortunately as already outlined in our previous response, it is not their role to take action on behalf of individual consumers, whether they are based in the UK or overseas.  We as an organisation we would be unable to advise as to what your next step would be as this is a cross border dispute.
I can only advise that you contact the US Better Business Bureau to see if they can offer any advice in this matter.  I attach a link to their website below:
http://www.bbb.org/
If you require any further advice, please do not hesitate to contact the Citizens Advice consumer helpline on 03454 04 05 06 quoting the case reference number.
Thank you for your enquiry.
Sarah White
Citizens Advice consumer service
Tel:      03454 04 05 06
Web:   www.citizensadvice.org.uk

That was in response to this:

Thank you so much for the reply. I grant you permission to do whatever you can to help me get a refund from this company.
 
 I originally was required to put a 30% deposit down on 2 25mh/s scrypt miners. They are special computers designed with one intention, and 1 intention only. To mine Scrypt based cryptocurrencies. They had promised to be the world's first when they released it and in fact there are over 12 companies and more coming that were released before them. They also offered a 100% refund but I see they have since changed their agreement so I have no idea how that will affect me. Also, as I stated, you cannot even speak to anyone with their company. They will not answer the phone as they say it is broke (has been for months), and have yet to reply to any emails I have sent. They also banned me from their forums for simply asking what if I requested a refund. On top of banning me, they deleted every post I made. A lot of people are having problems and I would like to wash my hands with the company completely. There are a few people who just got refunds that were requested way back in January. Essentially, failure to deliver as promised, failure to communicate, and their lack of response to any viable question has lead me to requesting a refund. If you need more information, please do not hesitate to let me know. I can point you to other forums with 100's of posts having the same issues. I am simply seeking to get my deposit back based on the above mentioned information.
 
  Is there anyone who can or will take action on them? I was reffered here by another consumer in a forum with complaints about them. Would you like to see those links?
 
 Thank you so much for your time and help as I am starting to feel like this company scammed me and I have no where else to turn.
 
Sincerely,
 xxxxxxx
    --------- Original Message ---------
    Subject: Citizens Advice consumer service case reference AK 12133369
    From: "CitA - Consumer GAK" <ConsumerGAK@citizensadvice.org.uk>
    Date: 6/24/14 6:06 am
    To: xxxxxxxx
    Dear Mr xxxxxx
    Thank you for your email to Citizens Advice consumer service dated 22nd June. Your reference number for this case is AK 12133369 and should be quoted in all further correspondence regarding this case.
    If I may firstly clarify the role of Citizens Advice consumer service, we are responsible for providing consumers in the UK with a telephone and online service offering impartial information and advice on consumer issues.  We work in partnership with Local Authority Trading Standards Services. As an advice service only, it is not within our remit to act on a consumers behalf and we have no enforcement powers.
    I can pass details of your complaint about this trader to the appropriate UK Trading Standards Authority, but to enable me to do so me to do so, I would need you to summarise what you have purchased from this company and what has led you to seek a refund, as this information is not contained in your original email.
      I also need to advise you that whilst Trading Standards will monitor a trader's overall business practice and their officers can take enforcement action, it is not their role to take action on behalf of individual consumers, whether they are based in the UK or overseas. They would not, therefore, take action on your behalf to obtain a refund in this case.
    Thank you for your enquiry.
   Chris Simmonds
    Citizens Advice consumer service
   Tel:      03454 04 05 06
    Web:   www.citizensadvice.org.uk

 So with that said, are you all telling me there is another agency I can file a complaint with? If so, who? You are telling me I actually have rights even though I am in the US?

Thanks so much in advance!

Scrap

[Dot99lr]

Just figured I'd put together some of the broken promises and pre-order warnings made in the early days (just from Sept. 2013). Taken from this thread. Just to keep busy me while we wait (it's a little long):

1.  The current discounts and offers are limited. The promotion will stop once we've covered the engineering costs. We do not aim to make any profit on our first batch of ASICs and our sole target is to cover the manufacturing costs. We have funded more than 70% of the NRE from our own funds. We can get the remaining 30% from various investors but we wish to give our customers the opportunity to benefit of low prices while helping us complete this project.

Lucky us. They should be able to refund everybody since it was 70% funded by them.

2. Black Arrow has a proven record of successfully manufacturing and delivering Bitcoin mining hardware on schedule at competitive prices.

Not anymore.

3. Black Arrow promises to do its best to offer lower retail price than its competitors and guarantees that in the eventuality of a price decrease before shipment, all preorders will benefit of a proportional increase in hashing power. For this reason the customers who have been with us from the beginning will always receive the best deals..

Has since taken guarantee back, citing higher quality parts and non-exploding capacitors.

4. Prospero for home (X-1) features a compact and stackable design ...

Not stackable.

5. I just thought this was funny:
   
Re: Black Arrow announces the launch of a new Bitcoin ASIC
September 14, 2013, 12:04:55 PM
  #6
Quote from: Foofighter on September 14, 2013, 12:01:30 PM
when will pre orders be opened up?

Black Arrow:
Next week. We will make the announcement here as soon as we can process preorders.


NEXT WEEK, ha-ha

6. Deceitful:


   
Re: Black Arrow announces the launch of a new Bitcoin ASIC
September 14, 2013, 12:56:58 PM
  #14
Quote from: blackarrow on September 14, 2013, 11:15:59 AM
The Minion will be 1500 times more efficient in Bitcoin Mining than today’s fastest video card ...


I really hate this cheap marketing trick. Wow 1500 times more efficient than a video card. Why didn't you said it's 432750349573745 times more efficient than a CPU? This is almost like Nigerian marketing. No offense.

7. At the time of the actual shipment we'll make sure that we sell our chip at the market price or lower. All pre-orders will benefit of the same discount by the time that we start shipping.

No longer the case.

8. Quote
We'll be accepting: Bank Transfer, Western Union, Bitcoin.

Plasmoske:
Damn that's super risky!

Should have heeded his warning!

9. We are making the most efficient ASIC possible and there's nowhere to go to from 28nm until 2015. We're offering all preorders a better deal that we'll have when we'll deliver the ASICs and we're guaranteeing that we'll offer the best price on the market.

If our ASIC will not be profitable, no ASIC will be and bitcoin mining will stop.

Fail

10. Quote from: Simon Barber on September 22, 2013, 02:34:05 AM
Chips and systems out at end of Feb 2014 - that means tape out sometime in December 2013, which means you've only just, or have not yet started physical design. Without being well into the physical design stage how do you know what your power or performance numbers are going to be with any confidence?

Black Arrow:
We've started the design in June. The only difference between us and our competitors is that we do not give unrealistic time frames which we know we cannot meet.

We are confident that we will deliver sooner but we do not make promises that we might not be able to fulfill.

11. Such wisdom:

Re: Black Arrow announces 28nm 64Ghash Bitcoin ASIC @ $1.99/Ghash
September 23, 2013, 04:29:14 AM
  #73

Quote from: User705 on September 23, 2013, 02:51:30 AM
If you are guaranteeing prices then what's the point of preorders?  Basically the people preordering now are giving you a free loan because come february everyone gets the same price anyways.  The only benefit of preordering now is if the buyer thinks that you won't have to lower prices and the current price will end up being less then market prices for similar devices at the time of shipping.

Quote from: xstr8guy on September 23, 2013, 03:48:58 AM
After a whole year of this ASIC preordering phenomenon/fiasco somehow you've managed to miss the point, lol.

Preordering gives these small companies the needed capital to develop ASIC devices.  In return, the "investor" is rewarded with a place in line when the device finally ships.

Right or wrong, it's pretty much the only game in town.  If you are waiting for the time when things ship the same day that you place your order, you may be waiting a very long time... unless you're content with ASICMiner Blades and USB Erupters.

Quote from: User705:
After a whole year of this ASIC preordering phenomenon/fiasco somehow it's starting to feel like the companies will promise you anything and everything just to get your money.  Even if it makes no sense.  What's the point of them getting capital now if they guarantee to drop the prices to whatever the market price will be in the future and have to return most of that capital?  I don't mind gambling but when the gamble is just some vague guarantee promise that isn't rooted in reality that's just one more hurdle to overcome besides the fact of sending non refundable to btc to some outfit in china and hoping for the best on a proposition that's many months away.

12. Re: Black Arrow announces 28nm 64Ghash Bitcoin ASIC @ $1.99/Ghash
September 23, 2013, 06:14:12 AM
  #74
Quote from: User705 on September 23, 2013, 02:51:30 AM
If you are guaranteeing prices then what's the point of preorders?  Basically the people preordering now are giving you a free loan because come february everyone gets the same price anyways.  The only benefit of preordering now is if the buyer thinks that you won't have to lower prices and the current price will end up being less then market prices for similar devices at the time of shipping.

Black Arrow:
Customers who pre-order and pay now have 25% discount. Our promise is that we will ensure that customers who preorder now will always get a better deal than customers who order later.

At the same time we promise that our prices will be below market price at the time we ship.

This means that customers that preorder now will have considerable lower market prices by the time that we ship which puts them in advantage towards anybody else.

Unless Bitcoin mining stops because it becomes unprofitable for everybody else in February, our customers WILL make profit.

Again, broken promises...

13.I like this:
   
Re: Black Arrow announces 28nm 64Ghash Bitcoin ASIC @ $1.99/Ghash
September 23, 2013, 10:31:17 AM
  #83
Quote from: topminingcontracts on September 23, 2013, 10:18:47 AM
I insist with my question

"I am interested,

Any guarantee to be delivered during Feb-14?

TMC"

Black arrow:
We are the only company from this forum (as far as I know) that has delivered the products on time. If we said that we'll deliver then, we will. What other kind of guarantees can be offered?

We could have "forced the truth" and say that we'll deliver in Oct-Nov, but we prefer to sell less and keep our reputation unharmed.

Fail, Reputation is quite harmed.

[Dot99lr]

Bobsag, it said on your Facebook page that you dispatched the first 50 units yesterday, with more to follow today. How many orders do you have to send out? Tens, hundreds or thousands? If you can only send out 50 per day, we may have several difficulty jumps before they're all shipped.

[fivejonnyfive]

Well boys and girls - it's been real but I jumped ship and successfully cancelled for credit. Got a unit with more than double the hashrate for the same cost, which has already shipped.

To those of you still aboard - god speed.

[sorehammer]

Lucky you kept trying to get that solution but they kept saying no but I'm now in the group buy so we'll see.

[Flying Hellfish]

They have single handedly killed their company, there will be no Blackarrow this time next year, mark my words.

Why would you think they will no longer be around?  They managed to secure a very large interest free loan to develop and build miners.  They can now build out a farm using @ cost matrix to mine.  I think they will be able to mine with @ cost gear while continuing to increase their personal hashrate for quite some time to come.  They got what they needed from the community (surprisingly interest free loans are pretty easy to get if you just say your going to make miner), if there not mental retards they should easily be able to use that capital to mine themselves profitably for quite some time.

[fivejonnyfive]

Lucky you kept trying to get that solution but they kept saying no but I'm now in the group buy so we'll see.

I mean, they offered me credit when I had inquired about the possibility of a refund on the 1st. I opted to wait it out for a bit but here we are delivery date still unclear, happily they kept their word. I'd imagine they'd hesitate to issue a credit to someone who is asking now for the first time once shipping has begun.

I'd wager that if the next pallet's tracking info isn't updated in the next few days they might give you credit after all.

Minersource was put in a tough spot by black arrow and I'm glad they honored my request.

[Airwhale]

On July second, They told me that they would give me a refund this week if my X3 order wasn't in by the end of the week. they rescinded that offer once BA came out with their (non) updated compensation plan.

To say that I am disappointed at this is an understatement. I expected better from them,  really. I'm not really sure what to make of minersource right now.  I know they mean well, and I appreciate the hustle to get chips to marto to make the technobit boards. But,  I went into buying X-3s based on bobsag3 and the rest of the dz-cooperative constantly gushing about BA.  Without these endorsements,  I wouldn't have bought.  But I'm guessing that they just made a mistake, along with everyone else here.

I just hope that they are sharing the pain equally with the rest of us for our bad decisions. Not that I wish them pain,  but it is a lot better than them rolling in piles of kickback money from our pre-orders.

Lucky you kept trying to get that solution but they kept saying no but I'm now in the group buy so we'll see.

I mean, they offered me credit when I had inquired about the possibility of a refund on the 1st. I opted to wait it out for a bit but here we are delivery date still unclear, happily they kept their word. I'd imagine they'd hesitate to issue a credit to someone who is asking now for the first time once shipping has begun.

I'd wager that if the next pallet's tracking info isn't updated in the next few days they might give you credit after all.

Minersource was put in a tough spot by black arrow and I'm glad they honored my request.

[Unacceptable]

BA is just like an anxiety dream playing out in real life.

It's as though some day in June one of them panicked and said,  "oh my God, I totally forgot,  weren't we supposed to build miners?".

Then that same person realized he had a final exam that day in a class he forgot he was in and never went to all semester, while a monster was chasing him but his legs moved in slow motion, which was after having been on the schoolbus in his underwear, and he was driving but the brakes wouldn't stop the car.

Thanks for the laugh!!!!!!!!! 

[AchrafB]

I've never been so stressed such as BA did ! and I think if MS have not been on that for providing a real support and a plan B specially for X3 customers this would have been a disaster :/