[1423GH] ABCPool PPS - Proxy Pool For High & Steady Mining Rewards

[bittenbob]

Honestly, how old are you?

Probably older than you but that is irrelevant. My point is thread count can show whether or not you have been vetted by the community.

Many months ago I created a thread, proposing considerable bounty of 50 BTC (~$1300 at the time of posting) for a new site tracking blockchain forks and double-spend attempts: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=7622.0

Recently this bounty was finally taken and now we can easily notice any performed attempts of evil forking, including 51% attacks: http://blockchain.info/orphaned-blocks

Double-spend tracking: http://blockchain.info/double-spends

Look at the double spends currently being attempted. What if the sold hashing power is going to the people attempting double spends? This is why there is an inherent problem with selling hashing power from a site that claims to be its own pool. It may not have been stated anywhere they were or were not mining their own blocks but it is implied.

All the hashing power adds up, ABCpool would need to rent power from deepbit+btcguild+slush to attempt a doublespend.

You really think the conspiracy is that deep?

Or ... you could attempt many double spends with way less than half the network hash power and one of those many attempts might succeed.

... Hmm lots of double spend attacks happening according to that link ....

Tycho says most of them are from people using a copy of the same wallet on a different computer without scanning or something like that. He says most of them are not a threat. I still think the number is alarmingly high.

[1713248581]

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[1713248581]

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[farfiman]

6 in the last 500,000 , most very small....

[The00Dustin]

I am not saying ABCPool is the one attempting the double spend. It is the one who is ultimately paying for all the hashing power from ABC (Not Goat but maybe his client).

I'm lost, maybe I missed it, but where does ABCPool say they are selling hashing power?  I believe they say they are using the hashing power at multiple pools, but that isn't selling the hashing power any more than it is when you mine at multiple pools (or one for that matter).  Project # 2 sells hashing power, but admitted it up front.  Mining with them gives you 105% of PPS, but they only want large miners.  If ABCPool switches to mining there in order to stay sustainable, then your hashing at ABCPool could be getting sold (Project #2 also mines blocks itself with excess power), but would still not be sold by ABCPool (who would simply be mining with your power at a 105% pool).

[The00Dustin]

I bought hashing power from ABC and was paying them 105%   They however are no longer sending me hashing power despite our agreement. 105% I guess is too low:(

So it looks like I did miss it, although IMHO "bought" is no different than allowing them to mine at your pool that sells hashing power at 105% in this case since it's not a higher rate and the hashing power presumably went to the same place (I did see you mention you had set up a separate server for them, and inferred that to mean you would stop blocking them from your pool).

[The00Dustin]

I never blocked them. I only did not pay them until I was sure ABC knew that the hashing power was being sent to me. I wanted to make sure they were not hacked or had a rogue server guy. I did pay in full once they made it clear they knew what was going on.

So the difference in what I see and what you and bittenbob see is really just semantics...  I mean, you don't think of Project #2 as a pool, you think of it as buying (and reselling) hashing power, right?

[P4man]

OKay, this is beginning to scare me.
These obscure 100+% PPS "meta pools", there is like a new one every week.
Then there GPUmax market place for hashing power. If these amass enough hashing power, it would become trivially easy and if I understand correctly, relatively cheap to rent 51% for enough blocks to do a double spend or other attack. After all, you only have pay the % above 100% payouts for 51% of the network for a relatively short time.

Miners beware, that 5% bonus payout may come with a huge price tag.

[P4man]

Open your eyes and you will see plenty.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=61570.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60717.0
There there is yours, ABC apparently, GPUMax, etc. Its more than one per week if anything.

But it doesnt matter how few or many there, what matters is the hashing power they could attract and potentially concentrate in the hands of just one person with bad intentions.  

I refuse to rent my hashing power if I dont know how its used. Its probably naive to ask others to do the same, but this could kill bitcoin.

[jake262144]

That's why I've been posting warnings about this in some other threads, P4.
If anything kills bitcoin it's will surely be a combination of greed and centralization that current pool designs bring.

[Clipse]

Wether the 100%+ PPS pools scare you or not doesnt really matter, its a free market and anyone with a sound business approach and able to offer these rates which give customers more bang for their hashingbuck should be allowed in a free market.

It would be crazy to think that every business approach is the brainchild of some evil genius who wants to rape and pillage the bitcoin community. Take for instance my above 100% PPS offer, I have legit reasons to do it and if I had any intention to do it in order to kill bitcoin it would simply kill my income stream at the same time.

Its one thing to worry about facts but to end up worrying about boogeymen is just senile.

[The00Dustin]

Open your eyes and you will see plenty.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=61570.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60717.0
There there is yours, ABC apparently, GPUMax, etc. Its more than one per week if anything.

But it doesnt matter how few or many there, what matters is the hashing power they could attract and potentially concentrate in the hands of just one person with bad intentions.  

I refuse to rent my hashing power if I dont know how its used. Its probably naive to ask others to do the same, but this could kill bitcoin.

ABCPool claims to be using multiple pools, while you don't know what those pools are, I would still argue that ABCPool isn't selling hashing power (although we wouldn't know if that changed and don't know whether or not the "pools" they are mining on are selling the hashing power).  Clipse claims to be mining coins to sell, not selling hashing power.  That leaves GPUMax which I didn't search for / look into, so maybe you gave one example other than Project #2.  There have always been people selling their own hashing power, and for all I know GPUMax falls into that category.  If there was more than one new 100%+ "meta pool" every week, I would imagine that most would turn out to be scams before they would all be able to find buyers, but if there were plenty of buyers, said buyers probably wouldn't need to find "meta pools" reselling hashing power in order to buy the hashing power they need anyway.

[P4man]

ABCPool claims to be using multiple pools, while you don't know what those pools are, I would still argue that ABCPool isn't selling hashing power (although we wouldn't know if that changed and don't know whether or not the "pools" they are mining on are selling the hashing power).  Clipse claims to be mining coins to sell, not selling hashing power.  

Fact: I gave examples of >100% PPS payouts.
Fact: you dont know what your hash power is used for when you point your miners at CPUMax, project2, ABC, Clipse so any of the examples I gave.

You seem to (naively) believe the explanations for most of them, to me they make no sense. You can buy BTCs on exchanges for 0.6%,  if for whatever reason you dont want to, you buy them on OTC for like 5%, probably less in large quantities. Why go through the trouble of setting up a (meta)pool and pay up to 15% extra?

[Clipse]

ABCPool claims to be using multiple pools, while you don't know what those pools are, I would still argue that ABCPool isn't selling hashing power (although we wouldn't know if that changed and don't know whether or not the "pools" they are mining on are selling the hashing power).  Clipse claims to be mining coins to sell, not selling hashing power.  

Fact: I gave examples of >100% PPS payouts.
Fact: you dont know what your hash power is used for when you point your miners at CPUMax, project2, ABC, Clipse so any of the examples I gave.

You seem to (naively) believe the explanations for most of them, to me they make no sense. You can buy BTCs on exchanges for 0.6%,  if for whatever reason you dont want to, you buy them on OTC for like 5%, probably less in large quantities. Why go through the trouble of setting up a (meta)pool and pay up to 15% extra?

I love the world you live in, simple solutions for everyone.

Your OTC example is gullable, not everyone live in a country with a mass amount of bitcoiners ready to trade in person(yes I would need to trade in person locally to get local currency from the buyers)

The exchange question regarding 0.6% is also gullable, have you ever considered that there is more than one reason to offer at these rates but let me indulge you. 1.) Attract miners and keep them happy with reliability aswell as higher payouts. 2.) Eventually you need to drop the rates down to perhaps 100% PPS or whatever value is sustainable and by then you have atleast a reliable amount of users on your pool to make it grow.

There is some people out there in the bitcoin community who actually wants to build a sustainable business and not live in your fantasy world of just run and gunning.

To be fair, when you have more than conspiracy theories please come post and show evidence that whoever you claim as harmfull did indeed act as a mafia boss and disrupt the bitcoin community, until then this is all just ghosts in the dark.

[P4man]

I love the world you live in, simple solutions for everyone.

Your OTC example is gullable, not everyone live in a country with a mass amount of bitcoiners ready to trade in person(yes I would need to trade in person locally to get local currency from the buyers)

You make no sense. You are paying for hashing power, ie bitcoins,  with... more bitcoins. How will you get the money your customers give to you in to bitcoins if not through an exchange, otc or whatever? I cant see the problem buying hashing power solves, if you buy the hashing power with the very same currency you claim is so hard to procure!

The exchange question regarding 0.6% is also gullable, have you ever considered that there is more than one reason to offer at these rates but let me indulge you. 1.) Attract miners and keep them happy with reliability aswell as higher payouts.

So you are a miner charity?

2.) Eventually you need to drop the rates down to perhaps 100% PPS or whatever value is sustainable and by then you have atleast a reliable amount of users on your pool to make it grow.

This is a completely different story. Attracting miners with a bonus to kickstart a pool is one thing, nothing wrong with that,  but thats NOT what you say you are doing. So what is it?

[Clipse]

I love the world you live in, simple solutions for everyone.

Your OTC example is gullable, not everyone live in a country with a mass amount of bitcoiners ready to trade in person(yes I would need to trade in person locally to get local currency from the buyers)

You make no sense. You are paying for hashing power, ie bitcoins,  with... more bitcoins. How will you get the money your customers give to you in to bitcoins if not through an exchange, otc or whatever? I cant see the problem buying hashing power solves, if you buy the hashing power with the very same currency you claim is so hard to procure!

The exchange question regarding 0.6% is also gullable, have you ever considered that there is more than one reason to offer at these rates but let me indulge you. 1.) Attract miners and keep them happy with reliability aswell as higher payouts.

So you are a miner charity?

2.) Eventually you need to drop the rates down to perhaps 100% PPS or whatever value is sustainable and by then you have atleast a reliable amount of users on your pool to make it grow.

This is a completely different story. Attracting miners with a bonus to kickstart a pool is one thing, nothing wrong with that,  but thats NOT what you say you are doing. So what is it?

None of this should actually be in this thread since its ABCpool but this would be my last response here if you want to continue your witch hunt you can start a new thread or respond in my thread(if its related to what I offer) and stay on topic.

You clearly have no business sense and you totally nitpicked out of context the "1.) Attract miners and keep them happy with reliability aswell as higher payouts" comment I made, it was part of my explaination to keep miners on a pool incase there is a much longer term use for the pool, you build "miner loyalty" this way.

Buying hashing power solves alot, I dont have to move huge amounts of funds immediately to an exchange, I dont have to rely on every BTC order to be fullfilled(sometimes people change their minds) and if for any reason I lose all BTC orders I can inform all the users atleast a day in advance that the offer/pool wont be available anymore(or for the time being). This is much more flexible solution, wether you like to believe it or not is of no importance to me.


This is where we wont agree it seems, you believe it imperative to layout every single future plan from a business perspective. Sorry I wont make it that easy for you to understand my business approach.

What I do provide in my thread is the truth and that is what I need the hashing power for initially. What I decide to do with my pool as time goes by is up to me as long as I make every miner aware of any new steps taken and stay transparent there is no wrong doing.

[P4man]

None of this should actually be in this thread since its ABCpool but this would be my last response here if you want to continue your witch hunt you can start a new thread or respond in my thread(if its related to what I offer) and stay on topic.

Quite right, so continued here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60717.msg722436#msg722436

[abracadabra]

Payouts have been disabled temporarily while we investigate a payout issue. We're sorry for any inconvenience this may cause.

What's up?

[bittenbob]

I am glad I got out when I did then.

[Brian DeLoach]

I am glad I got out when I did then.

Do you have anywhere else to troll today?

[Chlorine]

Payouts have been disabled temporarily while we investigate a payout issue. We're sorry for any inconvenience this may cause.

What's up?

We experienced double payouts. Meanwhile we have found the cause of the double payouts and we are working on a solution. We expect to have this issue fixed within 24 hours. Thank you for your patience.

C.

[MintCondition]

Payouts have been disabled temporarily while we investigate a payout issue. We're sorry for any inconvenience this may cause.

What's up?

RESOLVED: Payouts are back online! There was a rare error message issued by bitcoin payment backend indicating transaction failure, while in fact the transactions were merely delayed. This issue has been fixed for the future.

There were several transactions that were registered incorrectly. After checking that the transactions were indeed included in the blockchain we have corrected the balances of the corresponding users, rounding in their favor. Additionally, we gave the user that reported the issue a reward for his acuity. For those affected, be aware that corrected balances are likely to be below zero, since in effect we pre-payed for your work.

Sorry for the inconvenience!

Happy hashing everyone,
MC