NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[farl4web]

If you run a NXT node, you are supposed to receive NXTcoins and it is called forging.

You don't understand it. Running a node is not the same as forging. This mistake is maybe the cause of all the miscommunication here?

Forging:
People unlock their account on a simple computer and are chosen to generate a block. You will receive the fees of that block in your account.
Forging is free, just turn your computer on.

Running node:
Nodes are servers which will help stabilize and secure the network. You don't earn fees of blocks.
Running a node is running a dedicated server and can cost money.

[wesleyh]

1- For nodecoins to have monetary value,it requires people buying them or donating nxt.Let it be something private,and an emergency mechanism for the community to protect the network .If someone would like to spend some extra money protecting it, he just would have to donate some Nxt.But as we are going to have a lot of activity on the AE,i think nodecoins will be worth nothing very soon.Unless you people who are in favour of nodecoins,want to keep donating Nxt to give it some value.Money has to come from somewhere.

2º- @Wesleyh- Can it be interesting to create private assets??With a password requested to purchase them or something.This way enterprises or whoever can issue assets to just run in a private circle.This is not yet possible, and if its something symbolic,other people could distort it by taking them if they cost close to nothing.

I don't make the api, however an enterprise can transfer assets itself it does not have to put them on the exchange.

[landomata]

Main point is we have to make nodecoin un-trade-able (remove speculation) so the only way to get Nodecoin is to run a node.

I have said the same thing myself in different ways... I think 'limit' is probably achievable...
Lets see how this develops in inf-com.

that sounds great.. like getting vouchers from a supermarket.. you have to "shop" there to get vouchers and vouchers are only redeemable for there goods and not redeemable for cash! you have to run a node to get nodecoins and node coins are only redeemable for nxt at a set price and not trade-able.

EXACTLY

[rickyjames]

... Reasons why it is not any ordinary coin:-
1. It was designed to be used as an integral part of Nxt. At the heart of any crypto currency is the blockchain, and how it is secured. NodeCoin has been positioned to be the mechanism to (help) secure it. ...

- why so many talks about nodecoin?    peerexplorer.com also has a mechanism to support nodeowners, but nobody objects.

Btw, there is a shortage in "cashes" at peerexplorer.com ATM, it would be good, if someone made some "cashes". I've made some.

With all due respect to the excellent product you have created at peerexplorer.com, it is not a $50 million capitalized group endeavor that we are hoping to grow into a multi-billion dollar resource for public use.

[martismartis]

If you run a NXT node, you are supposed to receive NXTcoins and it is called forging.

You don't understand it. Running a node is not the same as forging. This mistake is maybe the cause of all the miscommunication here?

Forging:
People unlock their account on a simple computer and are chosen to generate a block. You will receive the fees of that block in your account.
Forging is free, just turn your computer on. AND UNLOCK ACCOUNT

Running node:
Nodes are servers which will help stabilize and secure the network. You don't earn fees of blocks.
Running a node is running a dedicated server and can cost money.

[zorke]

Personally...  I do view Nodecoin as just a project/asset/coin...  but let me make one thing clear...  IF the intention of "Nodecoin should be redeemable for accessing services (DAC, NxtCash, whatever)" was to exclude NXT from being used as well...  then it is definitely a NO GO.

You are 100% right. I agree also with this one.

[rickyjames]

If you run a NXT node, you are supposed to receive NXTcoins and it is called forging.

You don't understand it. Running a node is not the same as forging. This mistake is maybe the cause of all the miscommunication here?

Forging:
People unlock their account on a simple computer and are chosen to generate a block. You will receive the fees of that block in your account.
Forging is free, just turn your computer on.

Running node:
Nodes are servers which will help stabilize and secure the network. You don't earn fees of blocks.
Running a node is running a dedicated server and can cost money.

Is this really true?  If you are running NRS 0.8.9 on a node, you are ineligible to be selected to forge a block and receive the standard NXT fee award for forging that block?  If so, this is news to me.  How does NRS 0.8.9 know you are running a node and not an open client and so exclude you from generating a block?  How is DGex managing to forge so many NXT with all the NXT they are holding from clients?  You're telling me Graviton has 50 million of other people's NXT running on his laptop computer with an open client and not a rackmount server node?

Somebody tell me one more time what the difference is between an open client and a node, and what hallmarking is and what good it does.  I thought a node was the same as an open client on a laptop, it could just handle more bandwidth.

[igmaca]

Main point is we have to make nodecoin un-trade-able (remove speculation) so the only way to get Nodecoin is to run a node.

I have said the same thing myself in different ways... I think 'limit' is probably achievable...
Lets see how this develops in inf-com.

that sounds great.. like getting vouchers from a supermarket.. you have to "shop" there to get vouchers and vouchers are only redeemable for there goods and not redeemable for cash! you have to run a node to get nodecoins and node coins are only redeemable for nxt at a set price and not trade-able.

EXACTLY

EXACTLY But in parallel we must to solve this

the essence of nxt is

We want Nxt green? yes
We want Nxt safe? yes
We want Nxt decentralized? yes (Currently no)


It's what makes Nxt different from others

It's a bit of a disgrace they only pay 1 fee for sending al those hunderd-thousands of NXT. Sometimes I think the fees should be relative to the amount of NXT. Something like this:

< 10 000 NXT send = min. 1 NXT fee
10000-100000 NXT send = min. 10 NXT fee
100000-1000000 NXT send = min. 100 NXT fee
> 1000000 NXT send = min. 1000 NXT fee

In the future this could be, because we want to lower the fees:

< 10 000 NXT send = min. 0.01 NXT fee
10000-100000 NXT send = min. 0.1 NXT fee
100000-1000000 NXT send = min. 1 NXT fee
> 1000000 NXT send = min. 10 NXT fee
 

What are your thoughts? The big guys earn of the fees of the small guys now, so it's more fair if they pay more for transactions?

Fee should depend on data size coz it solves a technical problem (spam prevention). An attempt to make it depending on sent amount is an attempt to make the world more "fair". Don't mix technical and political/ethical problems, plz.

I agree.

But the fees are only required to prevent spam? I do not agree

but it depends on how these are fee distributed can distort meaning nxt

We want Nxt green? yes
We want Nxt safe? yes
We want Nxt decentralized? Yes

Such as the fee currently are distributed this is true? not

Currently Nxt is green? yes
Currently Nxt is safe? yes using VPS (trust points, centralized)
Currently Nxt is decentralized? No. Raspberri pi nodes have no interest in having its node active. There are few transactions and value of the fee is ridiculous because Nxt coin price is low

[apenzl]

Main point is we have to make nodecoin un-trade-able (remove speculation) so the only way to get Nodecoin is to run a node.

I have said the same thing myself in different ways... I think 'limit' is probably achievable...
Lets see how this develops in inf-com.

that sounds great.. like getting vouchers from a supermarket.. you have to "shop" there to get vouchers and vouchers are only redeemable for there goods and not redeemable for cash! you have to run a node to get nodecoins and node coins are only redeemable for nxt at a set price and not trade-able.

EXACTLY

And btw.
NxtMixer is using Nodecoin.

So if you run nodecoin miner, better hide or be prepared (anti-money laundering law).
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=506757.msg5687079#msg5687079

Or am I missing something?

[rdanneskjoldr]

1- For nodecoins to have monetary value,it requires people buying them or donating nxt.Let it be something private,and an emergency mechanism for the community to protect the network .If someone would like to spend some extra money protecting it, he just would have to donate some Nxt.But as we are going to have a lot of activity on the AE,i think nodecoins will be worth nothing very soon.Unless you people who are in favour of nodecoins,want to keep donating Nxt to give it some value.Money has to come from somewhere.

2º- @Wesleyh- Can it be interesting to create private assets??With a password requested to purchase them or something.This way enterprises or whoever can issue assets to just run in a private circle.This is not yet possible, and if its something symbolic,other people could distort it by taking them if they cost close to nothing.

I don't make the api, however an enterprise can transfer assets itself it does not have to put them on the exchange.

But what i want with this,is let a limited number of people be able to trade it,not transfer it directly.This way i could send by email the asset name,and the password to all people eligible (10.000 vip customers for example,or my 1000 employees) to trade it.

Who should i address it to?Ty

bravo thats a great idea!

the private placement of shares like NMAC did could be done on the AE aswell instead of using bitcointalk.. then at a later stage release left over exchange to the public!

True.NMAC or Graviton could create the shares.Transfer all the sold ones directly to its owners,and put on sale the rest. Also if it was like the first phase of DGEX IPO,he could just send an email with the password to everyone that showed interest and had preference,so no one else could purchase them yet.Also let the asset issuer lock or unlock the need to put password.

[rickyjames]

Main point is we have to make nodecoin un-trade-able (remove speculation) so the only way to get Nodecoin is to run a node.

I have said the same thing myself in different ways... I think 'limit' is probably achievable...
Lets see how this develops in inf-com.

that sounds great.. like getting vouchers from a supermarket.. you have to "shop" there to get vouchers and vouchers are only redeemable for there goods and not redeemable for cash! you have to run a node to get nodecoins and node coins are only redeemable for nxt at a set price and not trade-able.

EXACTLY

And btw.
NxtMixer is using Nodecoin.

So if you run nodecoin miner, better hide or be prepared (anti-money laundering law).
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=506757.msg5687079#msg5687079

Or am I missing something?

So we are saying NXT itself is not going to have true anonymity?  This was one of the selling points that we were adding in the near future, I thought.  Now it's nodecoin, not NXT, that is benefitting from NXTcash?  If so, shouldn't we call it NodeMixer and NodecCash?

I am getting more confused the deeper we are getting into this.  It is sounding like all of the good stuff about NXT (secure nodes, anonymity) are getting poured into the Nodecoin side of the equation...and can no longer be claimed by NXT itself.

[Mistafreeze]

If you run a NXT node, you are supposed to receive NXTcoins and it is called forging.

You don't understand it. Running a node is not the same as forging. This mistake is maybe the cause of all the miscommunication here?

Forging:
People unlock their account on a simple computer and are chosen to generate a block. You will receive the fees of that block in your account.
Forging is free, just turn your computer on.

Running node:
Nodes are servers which will help stabilize and secure the network. You don't earn fees of blocks.
Running a node is running a dedicated server and can cost money.

Is this really true?  If you are running NRS 0.8.9 on a node, you are ineligible to be selected to forge a block and receive the standard NXT fee award for forging that block?  If so, this is news to me.  How does NRS 0.8.9 know you are running a node and not an open client and so exclude you from generating a block?  How is DGex managing to forge so many NXT with all the NXT they are holding from clients?  You're telling me Graviton has 50 million of other people's NXT running on his laptop computer with an open client and not a rackmount server node?

Somebody tell me one more time what the difference is between an open client and a node, and what hallmarking is and what good it does.  I thought a node was the same as an open client on a laptop, it could just handle more bandwidth.

Simply because most of us don't unlock accounts on our nodes to forge because it's not secure(VPS)...I COULD forge on my node, I simply don't.

I think you might need to step back and take a breath...nodecoin is nothing more than an asset, it isn't going to take over.

[Sebastien256]

Personally...  I do view Nodecoin as just a project/asset/coin...  but let me make one thing clear...  IF the intention of "Nodecoin should be redeemable for accessing services (DAC, NxtCash, whatever)" was to exclude NXT from being used as well...  then it is definitely a NO GO.

You are 100% right. I agree also with this one.

+1

However,

If nodecoin must be use for certain services, then, these services must be private services built on top of Nxt. Not implemented into the Nxt core. Only Nxt should be used in the Nxt core. Nxt must conserve it independence against it service on top of it! In this way, if one service on top of Nxt fail, then Nxt do not fail. I think it is a reasonable security measure for Nxt.

Is that make sense? share your opinion please?

[farl4web]

I think Nodecoin is cool too. I would leave my client open to earn more.

I have no idea what it is. But I can earn 'something' for doing a really simple task.
That's awesome. Gonna collect as much as I can. Woohoo!

I have read the last 10-15 pages and it's unfair to attack James for creating Nodecoin.
Because EVERYBODY can do it. If James doesn't create it, someone else will. NXT made this possible.

So when you attack Nodecoin. You are actually attacking NXT itself which made this possible.  

Why are people in Crypto? Mostly to make money with a cool new thing and revolution. People in crypto mine or trade, but they want to make money. And the cool thing it is decentralized too.

In Nxt not much money is made, mining (forging) isn't giving much and the price of Nxt isn't that much volatile. People start to care less of Nxt and it does not attract many believers.

The Nodecoin is one of the things that can give NXT a boost! And attract new money to Nxt!  

[apenzl]

Personally...  I do view Nodecoin as just a project/asset/coin...  but let me make one thing clear...  IF the intention of "Nodecoin should be redeemable for accessing services (DAC, NxtCash, whatever)" was to exclude NXT from being used as well...  then it is definitely a NO GO.

You are 100% right. I agree also with this one.

+1

However,

If nodecoin must be use for certain services, then, these services must be private services built on top of Nxt. Not implemented into the Nxt core. Only Nxt should be used in the Nxt core. Nxt must conserve it independence against it service on top of it! In this way, if one service on top of Nxt fail, then Nxt do not fail. I think it is a reasonable security measure for Nxt.

Is that make sense? share your opinion please?

Yes. (IMO  )

Still, the services will help secure Nxt network by running Nxt nodes.

[Mistafreeze]

Personally...  I do view Nodecoin as just a project/asset/coin...  but let me make one thing clear...  IF the intention of "Nodecoin should be redeemable for accessing services (DAC, NxtCash, whatever)" was to exclude NXT from being used as well...  then it is definitely a NO GO.

You are 100% right. I agree also with this one.

+1

However,

If nodecoin must be use for certain services, then, these services must be private services built on top of Nxt. Not implemented into the Nxt core. Only Nxt should be used in the Nxt core. Nxt must conserve it independence against it service on top of it! In this way, if one service on top of Nxt fail, then Nxt do not fail. I think it is a reasonable security measure for Nxt.

Is that make sense? share your opinion please?

I agree 100%. Anything that uses Nodecoin should not be a core feature.

[rdanneskjoldr]

The Nodecoin is one of the things that can give NXT a boost! And attract new money to Nxt!  

But the money selfish miners will come to take,has to come from somewhere.And that somewhere,is  NXT users.
So in the long term,all that is given for mining,is taken from other users,making it more expensive to use Nxt.
People want money here and now,even if they have to pay 2$ long term,to have 1$ here and now.But we dont have to fall with that.

Selfish miners will just take money out of the network= less market cap

[Damelon]

If we are going to discuss unclear features of NodeCoin, wouldn't it be better to wait for James to tell us what he thinks?
Otherwise we will get ourselves into a mighty fit over what may not be true in any case

[rdanneskjoldr]

If we are going to discuss unclear features of NodeCoin, wouldn't it be better to wait for James to tell us what he thinks?
Otherwise we will get ourselves into a mighty fit over what may not be true in any case

Or start a nodecoin thread,which im sure will bring a lot of interest.And this is messing the functionality of this thread.

[farl4web]

Why the price is keeping going down?

don't worry, price drop was caused by those 2 stakeholders:
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=4483676211889446810
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=2000&tra=12023091469145621022

but it was supported only by these:
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=2000&tra=12169060789793651904
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=2000&tra=18286075937885214016
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=2000&tra=14279129699678101070

Everyone else is buying, a lot! Bter's account is much smaller than a week ago. There are massive buyings in last week, thanks to these stakeholders, massive adoption

It's a bit of a disgrace they only pay 1 fee for sending al those hunderd-thousands of NXT. Sometimes I think the fees should be relative to the amount of NXT. Something like this:

< 10 000 NXT send = min. 1 NXT fee
10000-100000 NXT send = min. 10 NXT fee
100000-1000000 NXT send = min. 100 NXT fee
> 1000000 NXT send = min. 1000 NXT fee

In the future this could be, because we want to lower the fees:

< 10 000 NXT send = min. 0.01 NXT fee
10000-100000 NXT send = min. 0.1 NXT fee
100000-1000000 NXT send = min. 1 NXT fee
> 1000000 NXT send = min. 10 NXT fee
 

What are your thoughts? The big guys earn of the fees of the small guys now, so it's more fair if they pay more for transactions?

NRS UI automatically adjusts the fee based on amount, but allows you to manually override it (e.g. set it to 1).

Hell, you're right!  

Sorry, didn't see that, I'm not that rich that I will make that kind of transactions.  

Still I think making it fair it better for the Nxt community and to attract more people into Nxt, if i'ts technical/ethical or political that doesn't matter IMHO.