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Author Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information  (Read 2755813 times)
schnidl
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March 12, 2014, 09:59:50 PM
 #43601

@wesleyh

I think i found a bug:
I tried to register a new account on http://nxtra.org/nxt-client/ with my ipad, but it was impossible.

Good night everybody Smiley
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chanc3r
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March 12, 2014, 10:02:10 PM
Last edit: March 12, 2014, 11:13:00 PM by chanc3r
 #43602

On Nodecoin/NXTcoin:

1) Who will buy them? It seems to me that it will follow the mine & dump path, so:
2) It will devalue NXT

PS: Ricky do you have skype? If yes PM me your ID please...

2 seems to contradict 1.  IMO, the more active nodecoin is, the more valuable NXT is

either people will run nodes as forging pools or we need people to run nodes and find a way to reward them...
nodecoin can provide proof of the work someones node has done irrespective of how much NXT they have...
let STOP thinking of it as another crypto currency but as a proof of a nodes work which needs rewarding with NXT
this reflects the contribution of the node to the stability of the NXTwork? (whatever the collective noun is for a collection of NXT nodes)
lets not think of it as a coin... so I'm going to call it something different - don't care what just want to ditch coin.

suppose in january 2014 NXTWork PoW Demon or its equivalent generates NXTWork201401 and in february NXTWork201402
now suppose we have a bounty for operating nodes each month
when january is complete ,we will know how much work the NXTwork has done in terms of NXTWork201401 tokens.
we know the january bounty -  divide the number of NXTWork201401 tokens their are, create one order for the total at a unit cost that spends the bounty and buys back all the issued tokens.
everyone can redeem their NXTWork201401 for a share of the bounty...
then delist the NXTwork201401

Repeat in 201402
Repeat....

If the bounty drops too low - people will stop running nodes.. if this affects the NXTWork, people who want to have a better NXTWork will increase the bounty and people will run nodes.... If it doesn't then the NXTWork bounty and the number of nodes will balance each other.

A bit crazy perhaps but it does provide a natural elasticity to allow the community to drive the performance of the NXTWork (sorry couldn't stand typing NXT Network)

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salsacz
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March 12, 2014, 10:03:16 PM
 #43603

This paper was posted in another forum.
"It Will Cost You Nothing to 'Kill' a Proof-of-Stake Crypto-Currency"
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2393940

It basically says that with a pump and dump scheme someone could acquire 51% of NXT and control the blockchain.

NXT is immune to a 51% attack and to over a 90% attack due to transparent forging? Is it not?
use search button here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5440445;topicseen#msg5440445

Nxt tips: NXT-R67P-6BZ2-XWAK-8RHZR | Nxt forum | Nxt Academy | Donate for Nxt at the Universities // BTCD: RVMLrnxYYy7uy8YZo9FcGfXbk1ZMnNifdg
jkoil
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March 12, 2014, 10:05:30 PM
 #43604

... also I do not really care if I get a reward or not! If you read my previous posts carefully, you would know what cars I drive and what trading volume I have on Kraken (over 100.000 US$ daily).

It was just interesting to see how high the gratitude is among the community, and it is obviously ZERO. Well, I have to accept that.

Well under the assumption you are telling the truth, you can't blame us because you went about it in a trolling manner. You can surely recognize that. You did not go about this
in a serious way as doctor evil did. Who btw received mucho praise and rewards from nxt community. In fact we are looking to hire/ask for more help from him.

I fully understand you, but I also believe that knowledge should be rewarded. People are not working for free, at least not the successful ones.
I am still not 100% sure if I should give away this knowledge for free or wait for some BUG-Bounty program to come up?

if you are talking about the 3rd flaw (prize 100k NXT), then it isn't anymore in the currently running codes. I've understood that the 3 flaws were injected to the code.
So, BUG-Bounty programs will not find it, if they find anything  Smiley

NXT, NEM.   NCMXTP-5JWUF3-QYHADC-YWELC5-QPUWF3-EAVFQM-MU7R
salsacz
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March 12, 2014, 10:06:11 PM
 #43605

don't make fun of Evil, he's got a hat, he can be bcnext or satoshi
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=341956.msg4585430#msg4585430

and also promised 1000 Bitcoins and his ferrari for finding G-spot (misspelled by K-spot)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=427753.0

Nxt tips: NXT-R67P-6BZ2-XWAK-8RHZR | Nxt forum | Nxt Academy | Donate for Nxt at the Universities // BTCD: RVMLrnxYYy7uy8YZo9FcGfXbk1ZMnNifdg
Anon136
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March 12, 2014, 10:08:50 PM
 #43606

are there any engineers here who can double check some math for me?

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?
Sebastien256
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March 12, 2014, 10:12:56 PM
 #43607

are there any engineers here who can double check some math for me?

depend what it is.

Nxt official forum at: https://nxtforum.org/
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March 12, 2014, 10:15:15 PM
 #43608

are there any engineers here who can double check some math for me?

depend what it is.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=455861.msg5663657#msg5663657
thanks for taking a look either way

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?
Anon136
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March 12, 2014, 10:15:47 PM
 #43609

are there any engineers here who can double check some math for me?

depend what it is.

same question...

same answer Smiley

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?
L5Society
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March 12, 2014, 10:19:42 PM
 #43610

@jadedjack

It is my understanding that transparent forging is not implemented yet, but will be by April 3rd. TF is supposed to give us protection from up to 90% attack. I'm still getting comfortable with how that is supposed to work.

I don't agree with the paper posted, claiming that a malicious actor could "kill" a POS cryptocurrency for little or no cost. This person would need to get more than 50% of the coins. The paper posted says that if the attacker is "credible", the holders of the coins will sell for next to nothing, because the holders of the coins believe that the attacker will eventually succeed and the value of the coins will eventually be zero.

This to me, is a chicken-or-egg situation. How could an attacker prove to be credible? He would have to declare his intentions publicly, and convince all the holders of the coins that he WILL succeed in his attack. How could he succeed in his attack without causing the price to skyrocket, especially if he is publicly announcing this attack? The paper doesn't answer that question, and I personally don't believe it is possible. The paper asks us to assume that an attacker could convince us that he is a credible threat, and then goes on to prove (using this bad assumption) that it doesn't cost anything to kill the cryptocurrency.

If an attacker publicly declared his intentions to kill a POS cryptocurrency, the rational response of the large stakeholders (or any stakeholder) would be to raise their ask price to the moon, or not even offer to sell at any price. This would ensure that the attacker cannot grab 50% of the coins because it would cost too much money. Therefore the attacker cannot become a credible threat. Therefore the proof in the paper that you posted is not an accurate reflection of reality.

What if the attacker tried to get coins in secret? Given the low trading volume of NXT relative to its market cap, it would be pretty hard to grab 50% of the coins without causing the price to rocket. At the time of writing, 24 hour volume is about $75,000 (coinmarketcap.com). That is less than 0.2% of the market cap as listed on that same website. So it would take at least 250 days to accumulate 50% of the total coins. I'd guess that 50% of the coins aren't even up for sale. The NXT whales help us here, by refusing to put coins up for sale. In less than a month, we will have transparent forging to protect us from a 90% attack (hopefully). Thus the network should be secure from this type of attack as long as 10% of the coins are held by honest actors.
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March 12, 2014, 10:25:08 PM
 #43611

I fully understand you, but I also believe that knowledge should be rewarded.

We all think like that. Until now, u wrote some text (posted a few lines yaddayadda here). There is nothing that could be recognized as knowledge yet.

U surely understand that.

When Dr. Evil exposed flaw, he did it in a noble manner. For that, he gained both (financial) reward and well-deserved respect, u see. That was truly cool, u see. That was not the "yo man I drive expensive cars and trade $100k at kraken, I'm the shit and can easily create nxt out of thin air, man" attitude... ah.

Here is the original thread.

https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,3884.0.html

He  got 10 BTC fron CFB and several thousand nxt from private donations

He never asked for money, by the way. It was all given impromptu





NXT-GZYP-FMRT-FQ9K-3YQGS
https://nxtforum.org
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March 12, 2014, 10:40:03 PM
 #43612

I fully understand you, but I also believe that knowledge should be rewarded.

We all think like that. Until now, u wrote some text (posted a few lines yaddayadda here). There is nothing that could be recognized as knowledge yet.

U surely understand that.

When Dr. Evil exposed flaw, he did it in a noble manner. For that, he gained both (financial) reward and well-deserved respect, u see. That was truly cool, u see. That was not the "yo man I drive expensive cars and trade $100k at kraken, I'm the shit and can easily create nxt out of thin air, man" attitude... ah.
+1440  Cool

Follow the latest blockchain news: https://twitter.com/blockchainguide
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March 12, 2014, 10:51:39 PM
 #43613

Or it could as well be possible that you (1) are a liar (2) mistaken/

You haven't even given an idea what exactly you are talking about, before "coding"

What exactly are you going to "code" when you can't even describe it.  

I try to be vague on purpose  Grin But I am 99.95% sure that this could be easily pulled off.

You should do it.  Seriously.

"An awful lot of code is being written ... in languages that aren't very good by people who don't know what they're doing." -- Barbara Liskov
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March 12, 2014, 11:06:53 PM
 #43614

on the subject of nodecoin value,

They have shot up in the price from .1nxt to .9nxt 900%! in a few hours!

TO the NODE MOON!

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Blockchain Technology.

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March 12, 2014, 11:11:42 PM
 #43615

WARNING !!!!!

I have stopped looking at NXT and you should consider the same.
It seems to be possible to generate NXT out of thin air  Huh

Take a look at this account: http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=1739068987193023818
He sends around millions of NXT that he does not have. No problem doing this, because his account balance is able to become negative without any restriction.

If I would hold NXT i would feel betrayed.

djeez, how are you feeling? just confirm that you are not under influence of drugs and/or having a psychosis.

EDIT: is this the flaw that you are talking about? then we are all fucked.
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March 12, 2014, 11:16:45 PM
 #43616

@wesleyh possible spelling error it went by so fast but the green box that fades in and out in the upper right corner said to me you "sould" something I forgot what asset.

At least that's what I think I saw.
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March 12, 2014, 11:18:13 PM
 #43617

WARNING !!!!!

djeez, how are you feeling? just confirm that you are not under influence of drugs and/or having a psychosis.

I had to make that "quote of the week" in this week's newsletter  Grin

[EDIT] http://nxter.org/nxt-newsletter-5/

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March 12, 2014, 11:30:23 PM
 #43618

on the subject of nodecoin value,

They have shot up in the price from .1nxt to .9nxt 900%! in a few hours!

TO the NODE MOON!

Thank you for not saying told you so.  Cheesy
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March 12, 2014, 11:30:37 PM
 #43619

WARNING !!!!!

djeez, how are you feeling? just confirm that you are not under influence of drugs and/or having a psychosis.

I had to make that "quote of the week" in this week's newsletter  Grin

[EDIT] http://nxter.org/nxt-newsletter-5/

Haha cool, like the horse:D
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March 12, 2014, 11:44:13 PM
 #43620

This paper was posted in another forum.
"It Will Cost You Nothing to 'Kill' a Proof-of-Stake Crypto-Currency"
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2393940

It basically says that with a pump and dump scheme someone could acquire 51% of NXT and control the blockchain.

NXT is immune to a 51% attack and to over a 90% attack due to transparent forging? Is it not?
use search button here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5440445;topicseen#msg5440445
Sorry to keep on beating the dead horse, but here's my take on the paper:

It basically says that if an attacker can convince PoS forgers that he will succeed in any case, forgers would sell their stake to the attacker at deflated cost.
The same applies to PoW currecies (even tho he claims not). If an attacker can convince miners that he will succeed in any case, miners will sell their hardware to the attacker at deflated cost.

So there's nothing new here. One could write a paper that says "It Will Cost You Nothing to 'Kill' a Proof-of-Work Crypto-Currency" using the exact same argument.
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