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Author Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information  (Read 2756356 times)
Anon136
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February 18, 2014, 05:48:54 PM
 #35141

Anon136's video described it as the chain that had the most stake involved in forging the blocks was the 'correct' one, even though there may be a longer chain.   Huh

It's slang. "Longer chain" == "chain with the most stake involved".

@Anon136
If so, could we stick to the 'longer chain' theme? It's just because it makes more sense to most people (even those that are familiar with graph theory).

i mean it works as slang but it is technically incorrect since its trivially easy to make a chain as long as you want. you could make a 1 million block long chain on my desktop computer in minutes if i wanted.
In plain english: what's the right way of finding consensus in NXT?

by looking for the chain that demonstrates the greatest stake participation without claiming to be from the future.

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?
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February 18, 2014, 05:49:11 PM
 #35142

Just seen, that Nxt is finally on Bitcoinwisdom.com.

Thanks to all that helped make it happen Smiley
verymuchso
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February 18, 2014, 05:51:39 PM
 #35143

Question about the java API.
Are there any plans to extract the functionality of the handlers in in nxt.http into java interfaces.
My use case is to create a payment transaction but i dont want to go through the HTTP layer. Currently to send money from the java api you would have to duplicate all the steps taken in for instance nxt.http.SendMoney.
The Java API is still a work in progress, in fact I am just in the middle of another refactoring for 0.8.0. I am switching to embedded jetty, so Nxt will no longer be a servlet. I will also improve the API while at it.

For the SendMoney example, what kind of an API would you find useful? Right now the steps you would need to duplicate are not that many, basically you need to do:

Code:
       Transaction transaction = Transaction.newTransaction(Convert.getEpochTime(), deadline, publicKey,
                recipient, amount, fee, referencedTransaction);
        transaction.sign(secretPhrase);

        Blockchain.broadcast(transaction);
The rest is validating the user input and returning error messages, which is application specific. If you submit an invalid transaction, it will not be accepted, and a lot of validation is done immediately when the Transaction object is constructed (such as for non-negative amount and fee, deadline, timestamp). Other validations, such as the account having enough funds are only done when the Transaction is about to be included in a block (because the account balance may have changed in the meantime).



Hi! You are right the steps to send money are very limited indeed, i already went ahead and did things that way. Looking at it now i no longer think there should be a higher level api apart from what is provided.

While i have your attention might i point you to the following..
Currently there is no way for java clients to get notified of progress during startup (nxt.Nxt.init())

Ideally there would be a listener you could register or some sort of progress monitor. In eclipse you have the IProgressMonitor interface, such an interface would be perfect, i included a simplified example.

public interface IProgressMonitor {
  public void beginTask(String name, int totalWork);
  public void done();
  public void worked(int work);
}

The monitor would be provided by the user and is passed to the various startup methods. When reading the blockchain (for instance) you would call monitor.beginTask("Read blockchain", totalNumberOfBlocks) and then on each (or each 5th, 10th etc.) block read you call monitor.worked(numberOfBlocksRead). At the end you would call monitor.done().

>  I am switching to embedded jetty

That's how we have done it from the start. But what is wrong with the servlet, should you not stay far from jetty and focus solely on nxt core?

Nice to meet you btw.. You did a nice job on the refactorings.

ChuckOne
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February 18, 2014, 05:52:15 PM
 #35144

sorry idk how to explain it any better than i did in the video Undecided

Sorry, I didn't mean that.

Let me rephase that:

Assume, you have a partition N1 and N2 of the NXT network as described above and the next block comes in:

How does a node decide?

1) The longest branch according to graph theory will be assumed the correct one.
2) The branch with the most stake involved is considered to be the correct one.
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February 18, 2014, 05:54:45 PM
 #35145

In plain english: what's the right way of finding consensus in NXT?

by looking for the chain that demonstrates the greatest stake participation without claiming to be from the future.

Ah, okay.

Just to get that sure:
 - the longest branch in the sense of graph theory is totally irrelevant
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February 18, 2014, 05:59:59 PM
 #35146

In plain english: what's the right way of finding consensus in NXT?

by looking for the chain that demonstrates the greatest stake participation without claiming to be from the future.

Ah, okay.

Just to get that sure:
 - the longest branch in the sense of graph theory is totally irrelevant

well idk anything about graph theory but yes the length of the chains is irrelevant.

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?
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February 18, 2014, 06:00:48 PM
 #35147

Advertise your coin or pool here:
Visit: http://www.bitscraper.pw/p/blog-page.html
msin
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February 18, 2014, 06:04:58 PM
 #35148

News about TaPoS: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RLcjSXWuU9vBJzzqLEXVACSCdn8zXKTTJRN_LfoCjNY/edit?pli=1

The author suggests a real penalty for accounts not mining within a year or so: they pay a fee.

Somehow, I like that.

Would be great if we could get this guy to help us with Nxt DAC.
ChuckOne
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February 18, 2014, 06:12:00 PM
 #35149

well idk anything about graph theory but yes the length of the chains is irrelevant.

Okay, so now we have:

Consensus in NXT is found by looking for the branch that demonstrates the greatest stake participation without claiming to be from the future.

This is achieved by summing up the targets on each branch and the branch with the smallest total is the correct one.

Got it right?
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February 18, 2014, 06:15:11 PM
 #35150

All,

this will be the triage centre for the different committees.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=453935.msg5002927#msg5002927

please add your project there for approval by the correct committee.

the committee members will decide for which committee your project does apply.

committees wil be formed as we speak please apply if you want to be part of one of the committees.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsrKGhOkVcFpdFRFeHNUdWx3Qy1nTjBPLUFNWUJKQkE&usp=sharing



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Anon136
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February 18, 2014, 06:26:49 PM
 #35151

well idk anything about graph theory but yes the length of the chains is irrelevant.

Okay, so now we have:

Consensus in NXT is found by looking for the branch that demonstrates the greatest stake participation without claiming to be from the future.

This is achieved by summing up the targets on each branch and the branch with the smallest total is the correct one.

Got it right?

thats the idea but now that ive started to think about it again i have some more questions that i need to ask cfb myself.

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?
ChuckOne
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February 18, 2014, 06:30:00 PM
 #35152

Okay, so now we have:

Consensus in NXT is found by looking for the branch that demonstrates the greatest stake participation without claiming to be from the future.

This is achieved by summing up the targets on each branch and the branch with the smallest total is the correct one.

Got it right?

thats the idea but now that ive started to think about it again i have some more questions that i need to ask cfb myself.

Good. Do that.

Maybe, you could share some of your questions.
Come-from-Beyond
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February 18, 2014, 06:33:40 PM
 #35153

well idk anything about graph theory but yes the length of the chains is irrelevant.

Okay, so now we have:

Consensus in NXT is found by looking for the branch that demonstrates the greatest stake participation without claiming to be from the future.

This is achieved by summing up the targets on each branch and the branch with the smallest total is the correct one.

Got it right?

No. U sum 1/target and want to get the highest value.
redsn0w
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February 18, 2014, 06:37:23 PM
 #35154

Who want some TestNxt ?
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February 18, 2014, 06:57:16 PM
 #35155

are any of the devs here working on off-chain transactions??

we have a working reddit bot for that, or do you want something like inputs.to?

l8orre
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February 18, 2014, 06:59:06 PM
 #35156

Who want some TestNxt ?

YES PLEASE!   Grin

1738404304940813414

wasn't CfB about to restart the Testnet ?!?!?! I was out for a few hours - balance on my tesnet account is still 6000

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February 18, 2014, 07:03:07 PM
 #35157

Who want some TestNxt ?

Long time lurker, first time poster ... great thread!

I'll have some testnxt, thanks!
4711596450733675448
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February 18, 2014, 07:14:56 PM
 #35158

are any of the devs here working on off-chain transactions??

we have a working reddit bot for that, or do you want something like inputs.to?

im not a coder.. not sure what inputs.to is.

just saw this.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=471348.0



Good link, seems there is some java code here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152334 if anyone is interested.
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February 18, 2014, 07:16:20 PM
 #35159

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLEASE VOTE! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Unregistered users are allowed up to 3 votes per hour, whilst registered users are allowed 6 votes per hour!

Please quote me, share on Twitter, Facebook, Reddit... thanks!
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February 18, 2014, 07:17:08 PM
 #35160

Payment Processor Information

As some of you already know if you read Nikel's reports, I've been talking to the guys from ZipZap and GoCoin quite a bit for Peercoin for a month prior to the conference and then spoke to both parties (Nikel lead) at the Miami conference about Nxt.  This is important, I can move this conversation forward.

I need someone willing to put the following data together (this is what we did for Peer). We need to show trends, interest and liquidity. Who is willing to work with me on it? I CAN get in front of the GoCoin board and pitch Nxt. See examples below on what we presented Zipzap and GoCoin:

1. Exchanges

We're listed on all the major alt exchanges listed here:

http://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=127.0


The bulk of our liquidity happens at BTC-e. We currently have 3.8 million dollars worth of buy orders for PPC/USD and 127,000 PPC worth of sell orders.


2. Additional Numbers

I've asked our team to put together some numbers:


A. Peercoin 6-month Transaction Volume on BTC-e (PPC/BTC Trading Pair)

http://i.imgur.com/a4InuOk.png


B. Peercoin 6-month Transaction Volume on the rest of the top 5 exchanges (Cryptsy, BTER, Vircurex, and Vault of Satoshi, with VoS conservatively assumed to be 5000 PPC per day since Sept 1)

http://i.imgur.com/VDFVLDu.png


C. Peercoin 1-month Transaction Volume on BTC-e (PPC/USD Trading Pair)

http://i.imgur.com/NnvNpda.png


D. Number of unique transactions per day

http://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/transactions-ppc.html


E. Value of Peercoin being transacted per day

http://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/sentinusd-ppc.html


================

Who is willing to step up?


Thanks!

Saw this yesterday evening and had a think about it and my take is that this is too soon.
At this moment we haven't even gotten a simple payment system going.
This means we also don't have much movement in Nxt and people don't recognise it as a payment option, but mainly as an investment opportunity.
I'm not against this per se, but if I would put myself in their shoes, for now I'd say we have little to offer and much to lose ourselves.

It's true that moving towards a payment system is needed (hey, I'm working on it! I admit Smiley ), but at the moment it doesn't seem like a good idea to move in with these profs yet.

I'd feel much more comfortable running the payments for the coming months via our own systems. That way we can build attention for it and get it more accepted. In six months, this seems to be something that would be viable. If that is a conservative guess, that's great.

It's a fact that not many people have big quantities of Nxt. 200-500 seems average for most smaller accounts, if I look at the forums, and outside this thread. To buy anything of reasonable value (say a promotional T-shirt at this moment) would probably take about that or a substantial part of it. I know that I wouldn't buy if it meant cleaning out my wallet.

If anything, it would draw attention to the fact that 200 Nxt isn't actually worth all that much at the moment.

So, in this case, I would advise to wait for a bit, even if théy are eager. If all goes well, they will still be eager in a month or two. Smiley

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