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Author Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information  (Read 2760139 times)
bitcoinpaul
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March 05, 2014, 04:35:42 PM
 #40601

What for?

Not everyone can process 1000 tps.

please stop talking about 1000 tps, it is wishfull thinking from BCNext.

Pinarello, Nxt as a decentralized platform could become huge, not (only) as a currency. Imagine, we have zero fees.

Ah, right...

We should activate the incentive and fee discussion again Grin
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martismartis
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March 05, 2014, 04:38:13 PM
 #40602

More I think about Pooled Forging, more I don't like it. Does anyone have any ideas where this could lead to? Won't we face the same problem as Bitcoin (GHash)?

I put refactoring on hold until the community decides that it's safe for Nxt.


Current NXT circulation:
1. Buy NXT from initial stakeholder.
2. Register alias / send message / issue asset and pay fee to stakeholder.
3. Goto :1

As I always said, forging was created for stakeholders. You (community) always said that "when we'll have more transactions, fees would be better distributed". False! Forging is not dependent on fee in expected block. The only thing that will change is that stakeholders would get back their sold NXT faster.

Nxt is good platform. It is another P2P software like Bittorent. We need to find another way to prevent spam and get rid of NXT.

I would like to offer an experiment:

Please 1M NXT and above holders stop forging for 3 days. Lets make countdown of 72 hours and lets forgers with less than 1M NXT post their results of forging during these 72 hours.

 Grin Grin Grin

Isildur23
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March 05, 2014, 04:41:55 PM
 #40603

yeah right, nxt and his awesome initial distribution.

That make sense

I remember u!

Thanks a lot.

Nxt is doing great.

U should maybe delete the adress in the op. Noobs can be tempted to not read that it's disabled and send more coins.

Cheers

I am sorry, I guess it hurts to sell at 0.000001 and then price rises to 0.00008. Sorry!

Ties are a prison for the soul...
chanc3r
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March 05, 2014, 04:44:37 PM
 #40604

More I think about Pooled Forging, more I don't like it. Does anyone have any ideas where this could lead to? Won't we face the same problem as Bitcoin (GHash)?

I put refactoring on hold until the community decides that it's safe for Nxt.


Instead of leasing forge power or Pooled Forging , you commit with your account to share fees among others in the same "share fee group" if you forge a node. You still try to forge a block on your own, but you commit to share the incentive with others if you are successful (with special conditions like committing to run the node for some time, ...).

share fee group (share fee pool or share fee Hubs) and limiting forging power of an account to 1.000.000 Nxt coin maximum . this means 10.000 nodes to ensure minimum network

Now imagine if I am correct with 1,000,000 Nxt coins pools (share fee group)

1.000.000.000 Nxt Coin
1.000.000 Nxt Coin per pool (share fee group)

10 accounts  90.000 Nxt 10 Node participate in forging
10 accounts  9.900 Nxt 10 Node participate in forging
10 accounts  100 Nxt 10 Node participate in forging

Total pool (share fee group) 1.000.000 Nxt
Total 30 Nodes participate in forging in this exemple

Chance to forge 0,001
rate forging 1440 blocs per day
526 Blocs per year
aprox 1,44 Blocs per day. 100 Nxt account is forging every day. receives fees in proportion to their funds every day!!!

1.000.000.000 Nxt Coin
1.000.000 Nxt Coin per pool (share fee group)
30.000 Nodes participate in forging. if there are only 30 accounts linked per pool (share fee group)

this means;

Extremely decentralized network (in the exemple 30.000 Nodes) and therefore very secure network
Small accounts motivated to participate in forging (In the exemple 100 Nxt account is forging every day not every 10 year)
rich and poor have the same chance to forge because everybody forge everyday!!!!

You just have to solve for the fees to be sufficiently attractive.

An interesting idea is to pay for other things like leased computing power
Other interesting idea is to pay for other things like leased memory storage capacity

Perhaps creating nodes coins proposed by jl777 implementing shared  fees pool  would be technically easier.

Could distribute node coins to the participants in the pool (share fee group) at all times proportion to the funds of each participant if any member had success in forging


I really like this idea because your node still has to be online to be part of the shared group.
It retains the decentralisation and number of nodes.
Forging is a bit like bingo/lottery anyway rather than mining and it smooths out the impact of penalty and people pool hopping if the pool was based on a single node...
So generally in stead of buying a single big ticket you are offering to share your ticket and any winnings with lots of others and vice versa
Penalties would only affect the nodes in the shared pool an would not take huge chunks of NXT out of the forging balance in one go by taking a whole pool out.

brooklynbtc
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March 05, 2014, 04:47:53 PM
 #40605

More I think about Pooled Forging, more I don't like it. Does anyone have any ideas where this could lead to? Won't we face the same problem as Bitcoin (GHash)?

I put refactoring on hold until the community decides that it's safe for Nxt.


Current NXT circulation:
1. Buy NXT from initial stakeholder.
2. Register alias / send message / issue asset and pay fee to stakeholder.
3. Goto :1

As I always said, forging was created for stakeholders. You (community) always said that "when we'll have more transactions, fees would be better distributed". False! Forging is not dependent on fee in expected block. The only thing that will change is that stakeholders would get back their sold NXT faster.

Nxt is good platform. It is another P2P software like Bittorent. We need to find another way to prevent spam and get rid of NXT.

I would like to offer an experiment:

Please 1M NXT and above holders stop forging for 3 days. Lets make countdown of 72 hours and lets forgers with less than 1M NXT post their results of forging during these 72 hours.

 Grin Grin Grin


I have an experiment, Hey Russia (or USA) why dont you turn off your Radar and Drones and ICBM for 72 hours and we can see how many people can do stupid ass shit while your security is down. Oh wait? its your MONEY we're messing with? NM

SN
S   U   P   E   R    N   E   T
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀   
Uniting cryptocurrencies, Rewarding talent, Sharing benefits..

Blockchain Technology.

igmaca
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March 05, 2014, 04:49:05 PM
Last edit: March 05, 2014, 05:04:36 PM by igmaca
 #40606

More I think about Pooled Forging, more I don't like it. Does anyone have any ideas where this could lead to? Won't we face the same problem as Bitcoin (GHash)?

I put refactoring on hold until the community decides that it's safe for Nxt.


Instead of leasing forge power or Pooled Forging , you commit with your account to share fees among others in the same "share fee group" if you forge a node. You still try to forge a block on your own, but you commit to share the incentive with others if you are successful (with special conditions like committing to run the node for some time, ...).

share fee group (share fee pool or share fee Hubs) and limiting forging power of an account to 1.000.000 Nxt coin maximum . this means 10.000 nodes to ensure minimum network

Now imagine if I am correct with 1,000,000 Nxt coins pools (share fee group)

1.000.000.000 Nxt Coin
1.000.000 Nxt Coin per pool (share fee group)

10 accounts  90.000 Nxt 10 Node participate in forging
10 accounts  9.900 Nxt 10 Node participate in forging
10 accounts  100 Nxt 10 Node participate in forging

Total pool (share fee group) 1.000.000 Nxt
Total 30 Nodes participate in forging in this exemple

Chance to forge 0,001
rate forging 1440 blocs per day
526 Blocs per year
aprox 1,44 Blocs per day. 100 Nxt account is forging every day. receives fees in proportion to their funds every day!!!

1.000.000.000 Nxt Coin
1.000.000 Nxt Coin per pool (share fee group)
30.000 Nodes participate in forging. if there are only 30 accounts linked per pool (share fee group)

this means;

Extremely decentralized network (in the exemple 30.000 Nodes) and therefore very secure network
Small accounts motivated to participate in forging (In the exemple 100 Nxt account is forging every day not every 10 year)
rich and poor have the same chance to forge because everybody forge everyday!!!!

You just have to solve for the fees to be sufficiently attractive.

An interesting idea is to pay for other things like leased computing power
Other interesting idea is to pay for other things like leased memory storage capacity

Perhaps creating nodes coins proposed by jl777 implementing shared  fees pool  would be technically easier.

Could distribute node coins to the participants in the pool (share fee group) at all times proportion to the funds of each participant if any member had success in forging


I really like this idea because your node still has to be online to be part of the shared group.
It retains the decentralisation and number of nodes.
Forging is a bit like bingo/lottery anyway rather than mining and it smooths out the impact of penalty and people pool hopping if the pool was based on a single node...
So generally in stead of buying a single big ticket you are offering to share your ticket and any winnings with lots of others
Penalties would only affect the nodes in the shared pool an would not take huge chunks of NXT out of the forging balance in one go by taking a whole pool out.

exact  Smiley

You just have to solve for the fees to be sufficiently attractive.

An interesting idea is to pay for other things like leased computing power
Other interesting idea is to pay for other things like leased memory storage capacity

Imagine now that someone decides to attack the " shared fee pools " and has success. (Or government or central power closes some "shared fee pools")

The only thing that happens is that it temporarily stop for shared allocation of fees.
As shared liquidation fees can be made instantly for each block forged. economic losses are negligible.
As power forging is fully decentralized network security is not compromised at all
Fees again fall entirely to the account that has already forged a successful block.

when the attack are Overcomes on the "shared fee pools" it is reactivated shared allocation of fees without major problems.

What use could also have share fee pools?

Could be gateways for Fiat currencies until the new economy adopts  massively crypto currencies
Therefore we could add value to 10,000 VPS nodes (hubs) scattered around the world
EmoneyRu
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March 05, 2014, 04:51:16 PM
 #40607

I have an experiment, Hey Russia (or USA) why dont you turn off your Radar and Drones and ICBM for 72 hours and we can see how many people can do stupid ass shit while your security is down. Oh wait? its your MONEY we're messing with? NM

False. Do you think 1M holder would cry blood about such a big fees for 3 days?

pinarello
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NXT is the future


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March 05, 2014, 04:52:12 PM
 #40608

-   Wesley client integration in NRS to replace current GUI (one click installer mistafreeze)

-   Implementation of AE

-   Write (re-write) procedures and wiki, delete all obsolete info

-   BTT thread page one, delete all obsolete info only provide what necessary for newcomers to start (don’t confuse them)= client and links to start

-   Marketing campaign on BTT, Redit, ihub, facebook, other social media

-   Market support price rise above new high will trigger alarms

we have one week.

brooklynbtc
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March 05, 2014, 04:53:48 PM
 #40609

I have an experiment, Hey Russia (or USA) why dont you turn off your Radar and Drones and ICBM for 72 hours and we can see how many people can do stupid ass shit while your security is down. Oh wait? its your MONEY we're messing with? NM

False. Do you think 1M holder would cry blood about such a big fees for 3 days?

its not about FEES> its about network security. If we dropped all the 1Mil plus we would have like 1/10th of the forgers, and with that assumed nodes dropped, hence security down

SN
S   U   P   E   R    N   E   T
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀   
Uniting cryptocurrencies, Rewarding talent, Sharing benefits..

Blockchain Technology.

EmoneyRu
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March 05, 2014, 04:59:52 PM
 #40610

I have an experiment, Hey Russia (or USA) why dont you turn off your Radar and Drones and ICBM for 72 hours and we can see how many people can do stupid ass shit while your security is down. Oh wait? its your MONEY we're messing with? NM

False. Do you think 1M holder would cry blood about such a big fees for 3 days?

its not about FEES> its about network security. If we dropped all the 1Mil plus we would have like 1/10th of the forgers, and with that assumed nodes dropped, hence security down

False. Now we have 26512 accounts. I run 9 free VPSs and there is an instruction which would help everybody to do the same and more. It means that we have a lot of nodes and a lot of accounts < 1M. Nothing to be afraid of.

bitcoinpaul
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March 05, 2014, 05:00:18 PM
 #40611

-   Wesley client integration in NRS to replace current GUI (one click installer mistafreeze)



same one click installer for Mac, too.
wesleyh
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March 05, 2014, 05:00:57 PM
 #40612

-   Wesley client integration in NRS to replace current GUI (one click installer mistafreeze)



same one click installer for Mac, too.

There's my nxtmac for mac.
abctc
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March 05, 2014, 05:01:06 PM
 #40613

What for?
Not everyone can process 1000 tps.
please stop talking about 1000 tps, it is wishfull thinking from BCNext.
+100
Lets test, and finally start AE

█████████████████████████████████████████████████
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██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
   
, the Next platform.  Magis quam Moneta (More than a Coin)
salsacz
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March 05, 2014, 05:04:02 PM
 #40614

What for?

Not everyone can process 1000 tps.

please stop talking about 1000 tps, it is wishfull thinking from BCNext.

Pinarello, Nxt as a decentralized platform could become huge, not (only) as a currency. Imagine, we have zero fees.

Ah, right...

We should activate the incentive and fee discussion again Grin

Here I wrote about it Smiley
http://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1zmv2q/decentralized_internet_and_nxt_solutions/
(and yes, you can also give some ups Cheesy )

Nxt tips: NXT-R67P-6BZ2-XWAK-8RHZR | Nxt forum | Nxt Academy | Donate for Nxt at the Universities // BTCD: RVMLrnxYYy7uy8YZo9FcGfXbk1ZMnNifdg
martismartis
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March 05, 2014, 05:04:53 PM
 #40615

I have an experiment, Hey Russia (or USA) why dont you turn off your Radar and Drones and ICBM for 72 hours and we can see how many people can do stupid ass shit while your security is down. Oh wait? its your MONEY we're messing with? NM

False. Do you think 1M holder would cry blood about such a big fees for 3 days?

its not about FEES> its about network security. If we dropped all the 1Mil plus we would have like 1/10th of the forgers, and with that assumed nodes dropped, hence security down

About what security are you talking?? Where are approx. 100 accounts with 1M and above. According blockexplorer there are 26518 accounts existing. So 1M accounts are only 0.4% of all accounts. What harm to the network security will be done, if 0.4% nodes will not forge?
bitcoinpaul
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March 05, 2014, 05:05:23 PM
 #40616

-   Wesley client integration in NRS to replace current GUI (one click installer mistafreeze)



same one click installer for Mac, too.

There's my nxtmac for mac.

I want consistent results and installation procedures on both platforms. Are they the same?
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March 05, 2014, 05:06:51 PM
 #40617

-   Wesley client integration in NRS to replace current GUI (one click installer mistafreeze)



same one click installer for Mac, too.

There's my nxtmac for mac.

I want consistent results and installation procedures on both platforms. Are they the same?

No, they are not. I don't have access to a Mac nor do I know anything about them.

I believe Wesley's is a container around the NRS client that manages updates as well as the display of the client itself. Mine simply installs Nxt.

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March 05, 2014, 05:07:00 PM
 #40618

Lauch AE:

Thursday 13/03/2014

1) possible?

2) agreement community?

3) other propose new date



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☕ NXT-4BTE-8Y4K-CDS2-6TB82


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March 05, 2014, 05:07:05 PM
 #40619

What for?

Not everyone can process 1000 tps.

Good point. But why do those people want to forge anyway? The account forging a block could do it without your power anyway, right?
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March 05, 2014, 05:07:10 PM
 #40620

How do we know if this will ROI?

No clue.
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