NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[Eadeqa]

Ok.  All fees go to the genesis account.

If you send the fees to the genesis account you will destroy NXT because you will eventually run out of NXT.

Nothing lasts forever.

At 1 NXT tx fee, all the NXT would be depleted in under eight years if the network was under full load.

The ROI would be phenomenal.  I like this idea even more now.

No, ROI will suck, as most people (including me) will sell Nxt and move to other thing as the platform  won't have any future.

[2Kool4Skewl]

CFB, are you the only one communicating with BCNext? Who will be in touch with him when you depart in 3 1/2 weeks?

He had left the day before Nxt source code became public. Went for good to work on other things. I'll get 3rd part of the plan in April but I can't contact him anymore.

BCNext gave us a gift.  He gave us a chance to provide economic freedom for everyone regardless of their socio-economic status.  Economic freedom is the most important freedom.  Regardless of other freedoms we possess, without it, we are enslaved.  As we forge our way into the future, we should remember the ideals that NXT was founded upon: freedom from the centralization, wastefulness and cost of economic security.

Bitcoin was the first generation.  We are the NXT generation.

[abctc]

Wesleyh and mistafreeze should be paid from unclaimed coins NXTinfrastructurefund when delivered.

+ 1440 !  

EDIT: There are ~3 mil NXTs in NXTtechdevfund, and Wesleyh deserves a huge pile of them.

[marcus03]

I dont know if this is relevant...but there is someone who is stealing nxtcoins from "bad-protected" accounts.

I've just created an account with the pass: "mtvraps" to check and play. I made the nxtra.org faucet and they sent me 2nxt to this account "14345877598619007537". One minute after, someone sent these 2nxtcoins to other account (of course it was not me). The account was: "1413811113623034318".  I suppose there is a bot checking all the possible weak passwords...

It could be funny but......TAKE CARE!

I'm not a coder and I have no knowledge of softwaresecurity....but is there an option to use a 2w-factor-verification? Securityweakness could be the most dangerous problem to NXT mass adaption.

I agree
would be necessary to encourage any client developer to implement 2 factor authentication

What would you like to protect with 2FA? The startup of a client or do you think you can protect the secret with 2FA?

If the later, could you please list the steps how that would work?

[marcus03]

Where are the clients here?

http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/Main_Page

Wesley's client is going to be the primary download available next week from nxtcrypo.org. So NRS will be replaced with this.

This will make life a lot easier for current and future NXT users. This client will be promoted as the primary client on WIKI as well, but all other client options will be available with a short description about them.

That's how I understand it will work out.

+1440

His client looks amazing.

I think this is very clear now, so J-L, implement it please in place of NSR.

Wesleyh and mistafreeze should be paid from unclaimed coins NXTinfrastructurefund when delivered.

Why infrastructure fund and not tech dev fund?

[LiQio]

Funding issues
Some thoughts in response to recent discussions.

To put things in perspective, let's see what is being done and has been done in the area of funding.

What is currently available for spending:
We have over 12 million NXT available at the community's disposal for a very long time. If we include the 5M pledged by Mr 47, we're looking at over 17 million. Bulk of this ammunition has been sitting idle due to problems obtaining consensus. Remember how long the unclaimed funds debate dragged on? That's the price we have to pay for decentralization.

We are now days away from finalizing the various committees. Once that's done, they should, in short order, be able to deploy that sizable stash of reserves to fund urgently needed activities.

What has already been donated and spent:
Newer members of our community may not be aware that substantial amounts have been donated by founders during the early days, and some continue to do so till this day. Some prefer to donate publicly, others prefer to do so anonymously. So, besides the 17M currently available, many more millions had already been spent to promote and strengthen the Nxt ecosystem. If you don't see them, it does not mean that donations were not being given.

What about apparently inactive founders?
Numerous nasty, and often unfounded, comments have been thrown at founders. These are not helpful, and will only have the effect of turning away these so called whales instead of engaging with them. I wonder if more will be actively engaging if there had been less of these negative attitude. Please realize that one way or another, founders have made a collective effort to help bring Nxt to where it is today. I see 3 broad strategies adopted by the founders to achieve this:-

Strategy 1 (Short term)
Some have chosen to take the strategy of distributing NXT fast by selling very cheaply immediately after launch. Look at the early posts in the trading thread. Many of you benefited directly from these founders' strategy.

Strategy 2 (Medium term)
Others have chosen to take the strategy of distributing NXT further down the road (after the dust has settled from the early fire sales), by donating through bounties and other means. This group provided the fuel to power the Nxt economy through the stormy days of DDoS and subsequent building of the Nxt infrastructure to the state we see today.

Notice that if all founders had chosen strategy 1, we would not have seen the increase in the value of NXT. This will not have provided the incentive for early adopters to continue working on the project. It would also not have drawn in new investors. On the other hand, if all founders had chosen strategy 2, nothing would have moved and all their NXT would be worth nothing. You can see that there is a very delicate balance between these 2 strategies. They compliment each other, and they have managed to keep this delicate balance in a decentralized manner without having to collaborate like a cartel!. It's market forces and collective wisdom at play.

Strategy 3 (Long term)
All eyes are on a very small number of large founder accounts that don't seem to move. This, I think are founders who are taking a long term strategy. These founders have decided to hold substantial amounts to act as possible network defender of last resort. They provide the ammunition needed to fight off yet unknown threats which may require a large stake to defend or to fund more costly development and infrastructure further down the road. A possible example is Mr 47. If you think carefully (read between the lines) about his last 2 conditions, you'll see how that falls under strategy 3.

If we don't lose sight of the forest for the trees, we can see that free market forces and collective wisdom of all well-meaning stakeholders ultimately work towards the strengthening of the Nxt ecosystem. More engagement and less non-constructive criticisms will certainly help.

Finally.... back to funding for the core dev team, and for that matter funding for marketing & infra. I do not think founders will continue to pile more NXT into the funds if they remain underutilized. Once the committees begin to spend the funds wisely and prudently (showing results), and when it begins to run low, I am pretty sure founders and early adopters will step up to the plate. I will be one of them.

In the long term, I do not think the community should be remain reliant on central funding for building the Nxt ecosystem. While it is essential during these early days (as a bootstrapping measure), the ecosystem should develop in such a way that it will become profitable to build services. Taking Bitcoin as an example, save for Gavin, all other developers (core, client, infra) continue to support the ecosystem through indirect "privatized" means. If we continue to pick up traction, we may be there sooner than we think.

Thanks Pouncer, I think most can agree with many things you say.

Nevertheless, the picture you draw is unrealistically romantic: most whales have a noble strategy that is focused on short, middle or long term goals...
Come on, that is bullshit do-gooder-fairy-tale-thinking.

Founders are a heterogeneous group, some smart and active, some selfish free-riders.
That's it, that's life.

Don't put pressure on the small guys for being jealous criticizing this. Whales in hiding have to live with it, if they can't, they can step up, do "things" (like klee or yourself) and they are not attacked anymore (and if they are, they will be defended by others).

[Fatih87SK]

Installer for 0.8.6 TestNet with Wesley's interface will be released in the morning.

Night y'all.

Awesome! When will it be out of testnet so we can promote it?

When we are finished testing AE?

[abctc]

When we are finished testing AE?

- did you personally test AE ? 

What asset did you issue? - I want to try to buy.

[jl777]

if I have interpreted the information right, If you issue an asset you have no association with the gateway; anyone who trades with you does so strictly on a personal trust basis. Gateway assets are not self issued, but are actually backed by real assets that are held in a special account to guarantee there security.

Thanks.
But still not sure about it

Anybody that issues an asset can sell it. However, no matter what it is called, it is totally up to the issuer to convince people to trust them that it will be redeemed properly.

It is possible to issue an asset and not be a gateway. For example, if I issue a nodecoin asset and let people earn them when they are forgin, then it lives within NXT, there is no need for any gateway.

It is also possible to be a gateway that does not issue an asset. For example, a gateway could accept CNY and pay NXT for it.

I dont think there is a strict definition of what is and what isnt a gateway. A good working definition is that a gateway is something that allows you to cross the barrier between the NXT world and outside the NXT world.

James

[BrianNowhere]

Current NXT circulation:
1. Buy NXT from initial stakeholder.
2. Register alias / send message / issue asset and pay fee to stakeholder.
3. Goto :1

As I always said, forging was created for stakeholders. You (community) always said that "when we'll have more transactions, fees would be better distributed". False! Forging is not dependent on fee in expected block. The only thing that will change is that stakeholders would get back their sold NXT faster.

Nxt is good platform. It is another P2P software like Bittorent. We need to find another way to prevent spam and get rid of NXT.

Ok.  All fees go to the genesis account.

If you send the fees to the genesis account you will destroy NXT because you will eventually run out of NXT.

With or without pooled forging, people with more NXT will get more NXT by forging.  People should view NXT as non-depreciating mining equipment.  The more NXT you own, the more NXT you will receive.  I'd rather purchase NXT than an ASIC because an ASIC will depreciate and I will earn less and less with my ASIC.  With my NXT, I will always recieve "MY NXT AMOUNT" / 1,000,000,000 NXT x 100% of the network's transaction fees.

The one worrisome thing about this Proof Of Stake concept is that it may very well turn out to be like a game of Risk. Where once a player passes a point where they have  a decisive advantage with troops, they quickly dominate the entire game, becoming more dominant with every battle until soon everyone else is slowly and methodically wiped out, or someone flips the board over, whichever comes first.

It seems like this might happen with something like NXT. The large stakeholders gaining the most out of forging, becoming more powerful with every block they win, achieving something of a compounding interest snowball type effect, until only a few big fish remain, sitting on their fat Jaba the Hut asses for the rest of NXT's existence gobbling up all the NXT while everyone else gives up forging at all; the network degrades until the Whales see the writing on the wall and push the SELL button, making NXT just another addition to the isle of coulda-shoulda-woulda.

[LemonAndFries]

I have a wild hypothesis.....

What about if at some point in the future some of these millions of coins are going to be sent to the furnace (genesis block) to be burned in order to make the coin more rare and valuable.

Just thought I'd share my wild fictitious thought.

[psic4t]

Hey guys! I'm allwelder's friend.
If you want the price of NXT pumping up,
please go to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=501963.0 to vote NXT!!!
Www.btc38.com is the biggest Altcoins exchange in China.
It will be a great news to NXT if the site launch NXT!!!

Please!!!

Done.

[wesleyh]

Here's something whales could do:

http://www.fastcompany.com/3027271/fast-feed/move-over-bitcoin-crosscoins-new-accelerator-bets-on-the-ripple-ecosystem

[ChuckOne]

I have a wild hypothesis.....

What about if at some point in the future some of these millions of coins are going to be sent to the furnace (genesis block) to be burned in order to make the coin more rare and valuable.

Just thought I'd share my wild fictitious thought.

Why should somebody do this? Wasting his money?

[ChuckOne]

I think this is very clear now, so J-L, implement it please in place of NSR.

Wesleyh and mistafreeze should be paid from unclaimed coins NXTinfrastructurefund when delivered.

Why infrastructure fund and not tech dev fund?

Generally, I would tend to agree with you. In case the tech fund won't pay, I would advocate that the infra fund pay.

Having this client is rather important to NXT. It's even a part of marketing.

BTW: we need an audit of that code as well.

[LemonAndFries]

I have a wild hypothesis.....

What about if at some point in the future some of these millions of coins are going to be sent to the furnace (genesis block) to be burned in order to make the coin more rare and valuable.

Just thought I'd share my wild fictitious thought.

Why should somebody do this? Wasting his money?

Well think about it.  If everyone with NXT sends 2 or 3 NXT back to the genesis account to be burned, we would essentially raise the value of NXT while still keeping our NXT.  Small amounts like that don't matter much by themselves, but when pulled together as a group they have much higher value.

Anyways, it wasn't meant to be taken seriously.  Just a random thought.

[mikesbmw]

BCNext gave us a gift.  He gave us a chance to provide economic freedom for everyone regardless of their socio-economic status.  Economic freedom is the most important freedom.  Regardless of other freedoms we possess, without it, we are enslaved.  As we forge our way into the future, we should remember the ideals that NXT was founded upon: freedom from the centralization, wastefulness and cost of economic security.

Bitcoin was the first generation.  We are the NXT generation.

Djees man: what are you smoking? May I have some? 

NXT is a great infrastructure for future projects, but by NO MEANS does NXT create economic freedom and most certainly not regardless of socio-economic status. NXT is for people who have money to spare and are computer literate.

Ones NXT gets adopted on a massive scale things WILL get regulated the sh*t out of. Just like every other internet project that gets to big and imposes a risk for the (world) economy and infrastructure.

I love NXT, but please be realistic. 

[ChuckOne]

Well think about it.  If everyone with NXT sends 2 or 3 NXT back to the genesis account to be burned, we would essentially raise the value of NXT while still keeping our NXT.  Small amounts like that don't matter much by themselves, but when pulled together as a group they have much higher value.

Anyways, it wasn't meant to be taken seriously.  Just a random thought.

I know.

But think of it as this:

if somebody does this alone, not only his stake will increase in value but also the stake of others => he loose
if everybody does this, it evens out => nothing happens except having greater numbers in some exchanges, or maybe not that because people are scared away

[antanst]

Strong quality controls on released code should be addressed.  Accepting any random patch will lead to the destruction of NXT very quickly.

+ ∞

Too many opinionated people post here for the (sole) dev to hurry up, implement this or that, release untested and buggy features etc. This is people's money we're talking about. Get a grip. Programming is difficult, and there are myriads of ways something can go wrong and blow the whole coin up.

[LemonAndFries]

Well think about it.  If everyone with NXT sends 2 or 3 NXT back to the genesis account to be burned, we would essentially raise the value of NXT while still keeping our NXT.  Small amounts like that don't matter much by themselves, but when pulled together as a group they have much higher value.

Anyways, it wasn't meant to be taken seriously.  Just a random thought.

I know.

But think of it as this:

if somebody does this alone, not only his stake will increase in value but also the stake of others => he loose
if everybody does this, it evens out => nothing happens except having greater numbers in some exchanges, or maybe not that because people are scared away

What about if that person invested 2-3 times in NXT starting IPO with different accounts and he has enough to burn millions while still keeping a huge fortune and making that fortune worth even more.  And not only does this person not just raise his own value, but he also does so on purpose to raise everyone else's value as a reward for taking the risk.

Again, more random thoughts.