[ANN] Catcoin - Scrypt meow!

[envy2010]

LTC has twice as many GH/s pointed at it constantly as all the other scrypt coins combined. Not to say it couldn't be affected by multi's jumping on and off, but there is a lot of hash there to keep it stable.

[LeoC]

Sorry meant to say middlecoin was 10ghs, not multipool.

We moving up now?

[envy2010]

MultiPool is ~5.5 GH/s (~4 of which hops); Middlecoin is ~11 GH/s. I keep an eye on what both are mining most of the time, and I know CAT isn't on Multipool. I haven't seen it on Middlecoin in a while (couple days maybe?), but it's harder to tell since he doesn't publish what he's mining. I'm logging difficulties to see if he hits CAT.

[hozer]

For everyone reading this - I had some thoughts today as to how Catcoins can start benefiting from the logic of loyalty credits, leading to more modest difficult level changes over time, even before implementing any coding changes in the coin itself - by having one or more pools implement some simple logic/policy changes - to reward loyal miners at the expense of opportunistic ones. I will post more on this a bit later.

Etblvu1

please post an issue at https://bitbucket.org/dahozer/catcoin/issues describing some possible code changes to either catcoind or to p2pool

I also want to know what you think of some other ideas that would require a coin fork, but I'd rather do the discussion on a mail list

[etblvu1]

For everyone reading this - I had some thoughts today as to how Catcoins can start benefiting from the logic of loyalty credits, leading to more modest difficult level changes over time, even before implementing any coding changes in the coin itself - by having one or more pools implement some simple logic/policy changes - to reward loyal miners at the expense of opportunistic ones. I will post more on this a bit later.

Etblvu1

please post an issue at https://bitbucket.org/dahozer/catcoin/issues describing some possible code changes to either catcoind or to p2pool

I also want to know what you think of some other ideas that would require a coin fork, but I'd rather do the discussion on a mail list

Hi Hozer,

Thank you for the invitation. I will post the ideas as you requested, and provide feedback for any ideas or issues where my input may be helpful.

Etblvu1

[etblvu1]

How a Pool can Implement Loyalty Rewards Now Without Waiting for Coin Code Changes

Catcoin has been suffering wild difficulty swings as of late, since the 36 block difficulty adjustment fork took effect. I have posted possible long-term fixes to this problem, by implementing coding changes in the coin software to eliminate incentives to coin hop to maximize profit. However, introducing coding changes (especially ones which are new and have not been implemented anywhere else before), is understandably a process that will take some time.

But we do not have to wait for the coin to be updated with this logic for the pools to implement the logic and start benefiting the coin much more quickly. What are the anticipated benefits? And how would we get there?

1. Reward Loyal Miners with Extra Cats (more than was thought possible)

When miner begins mining at a pool at a time that is "convenient" for them, they can be awarded 1/2 share per share submitted, as a matter of policy. This would only happen, only when the difficulty level dropped more than 50% from the last difficulty adjustment. Once they stay past the easy difficulty level, they can be upgraded to receiving full shares until they stop mining. This creates extra hashing power in the pool, that can be used to mine extra coins, which in effect provides extra cats which can be distributed to loyal miners who had been mining since when the difficulty level was higher. In effect, we can give extra CATs to loyal miners, more than was previously thought possible or available. This would last until every last opportunistic miner learns to stay away from the pool.

2. Hit coin hoppers where it hurts to discourage them from hopping into and out of Catcoins to try to 'maximize profits'.

Since coin hoppers would only see half of the coin revenues they may have expected by studying the difficulty number, they would learn pretty quickly that they cannot simply jump in and take easy profits. They would have to decide at that point if they believe in Catcoins and want to mine through both easy and difficult eras, or just focus on mining elsewhere. In either case, Catcoin wins.

3. Create Competitive Pressure for Other Pools to Also Implement this Logic

Once any single pool implements the logic of awarding only 1/2 share for miners who conveniently show up to mine only when the difficulty level recently dropped, they inherently make more CATs available to other miners who had been mining all along. This puts extreme competitive pressure on other pool operators to implement the same or similar code. The ones that do not, will lose miners, because they simply are not as profitable to mine with.

4. Demonstrate that incentives work - before-and-after Graphs of Estimated Hashrates for the Pool

Pools who track statistics will be able to show a before-and-after graph, overlaying estimated hashrates for the pool with an overlay showing difficulty adjustments - before implementing the loyalty credit logic - and after implement the change. The graph before will show a dramatic increase in pool hashrate as difficulty went down, and dramatic pool hashrate when it went back up. At the point of transition, the graph will show a more modest increase in hashrate as difficulty went down, and also a more modest difficulty decrease in hashrate as the difficulty went up. This will be empirical proof that the loyalty logic works in stabilizing hashrates. To the extent the difficulty swings do not go away entirely, that is the degree to which loyal miners are receiving the redistribution of rewards, which means in effect they benefit from > 100% CATs distributions for shares contributed.

5. Create Competitive Pressure for Pools of Other Altcoins to Implement this Logic

Once this is seen to be working for Catcoins, it is a matter of time before pools for other altcoins will copy the logic. Probably starting with pools that provide services for both Catcoins and other altcoins. This will be a competitive advantage for any pool that implements it, and there is always a first mover advantage.

6. Demonstrate the Logic Works - so Should be Implemented in Coin Code Itself

Once this is taking place, coin developers will take notice and implement the logic at the coin itself. When this logic is implemented at the pool level, coin hoppers can still jump in and take profits, by solo mining, or joining pools that are neutral or hostile to the coin and jump in during easy times to cherry pick coins. Although having pools implement the logic will eliminate a portion of the coin hopping madness, it cannot be eliminated in totality until the logic is implemented at the coin code level. Having the pools implement the logic first and showing positive results (e.g., the pool is showing a more steady hash contribution to the coin; and loyal miners are seeing better profitability than they would have believed possible), will be empirical evidence that will convince coin developers to implement the same logic at the coin code level.

7. Spread the Use of this Logic to All Coins to Put a Stop to this Mad Era of Coin Hopping for Profit Maximization

As this change spreads through the coin mining world, it will completely change the way people look at mining coins. It will become more profitable to switch mining only every few weeks or months, and base the decision of where to park the mining equipment, based on studying longer-term prospects. It will be less crazy, and more focus can then go to marketing the coins and other innovations that have nothing to do with crazy coin jumping and dumping.

8. New Era of Long-Term Mining and Holding of Coins

By creating an environment where miners generally keep mining the same coin over an extended period of time, and holding the coins they mine, we create a new era of prosperity for the cryptocurrency ecosystem, reproducing the dynamics that existed in the early days of Bitcoins (and which still continue for Bitcoins and for Litecoins) - steady hash power backing up cryptocurrency that the hashers believe in, with a large percentage of miners keeping and accumulating the coins they mine.

If people report capital gains when they sell coins, they may realize significant tax savings if they mine the coins and can show they held onto it for a year before selling, based on typical capital gains taxation rules.

History will remember the mad coin hopping as a brief time in history before the flaw in the difficulty adjustment was patched up, where enterprising miners hopped coins in a mad chase after low hanging fruits they could cherry pick - until the flaw was fixed, which put an end to this wild era. And to that, we can all hopefully say, good riddance.

Etblvu1

[LeoC]

Thank you seller!

[skillface]

Thank you seller!

What did I miss?

[LeoC]

10996.97027697 CAT Available
5 BTC clearing tomorrow, was gunna buy quark, but nah. CAT!

[skillface]

Speaking of BTC, I finally got approved at Coinjar. About freaking time.

Too bad I don't really have the money at the moment to buy BTC to stock up on CAT.

[LeoC]

Assuming you are in the USA, Coinbase is better.

Coinbase BTC purchase fee = 1%
Coinjar BTC purchase fee = 2%

Coinbase BTC sell fee = 1%
Coinjar BTC sell fee = 1.1%

Coinbase current price per BTC = $808.30 USD
Coinjar current price per BTC = $818.28 USD


If you're in Australia, ignore this post


Not that these small price differences matter too much, I flip real estate for a living and it's been a pretty good year.

[skillface]

Assuming you are in the USA, Coinbase is better.

Coinbase BTC purchase fee = 1%
Coinjar BTC purchase fee = 2%

Coinbase BTC sell fee = 1%
Coinjar BTC sell fee = 1.1%

Coinbase current price per BTC = $808.30 USD
Coinjar current price per BTC = $818.28 USD


If you're in Australia, ignore this post

Yeah nah I'm Australian. Coinbase isn't even an option for me since they're US only. I also applied at Bitstamp but they rejected my proof of residence because it was 1 day over the 3 month limit and I don't have a more recent bill. And I did apply at Mt.Gox but that was nearly 2 weeks ago, and they recently went from saying it'd take 10 business days to 20.

So Coinjar it is.

[skillface]

Cryptographic
Anonimous
Transactions
It's too serious to say meow.

Think this one more like real coin and more serious. CATcoin doesn't need rebranding, but let this coin be.
(Mars landscape from athlas, earth's position from my head, Earth not up to scale)

Also I took the liberty of cutting down the size of that image. God damn it's massive.

Of course if anyone actually wants to use it for something, I recommend using the original image for optimal quality.

[dotnetmin]

I did have a look into the catchain.

How did pick up the blocks @ diffi was 29.333. Momentary it is agin on a high level @ 78.951

Was ist the CAT community or was once again a pump pool at work ?

[dotnetmin]

Is there a chart you can see the nethashrate ?

[hozer]

History will remember the mad coin hopping as a brief time in history before the flaw in the difficulty adjustment was patched up, where enterprising miners hopped coins in a mad chase after low hanging fruits they could cherry pick - until the flaw was fixed, which put an end to this wild era. And to that, we can all hopefully say, good riddance.

Etblvu1

Yep.

How about we do a hybrid with proof-of-stake I'll call 'stake-mining', implemented something like this:

1) borrow peercoin proof-of-stake code
2) decrease 'pure mining' block reward to 25
3) use scrypt at the current difficulty to 'stake-mine' coins that are ready to mature to get the rest of the block reward.
4) add a 'small stake' reward that uses scrypt, but requires an N parameter that increases (uses more memory) with larger stake amounts. (aka, make it real hard to get a stake reward for large amounts, but easy for small amounts). Take the small stake reward from any of the 25 stake-mined coins in a block that coin-hoppers don't bother to pick up

This actually in theory actually still keeps the 21 million coin limit, which I couldn't figure out until 30 seconds ago.

If you like, send a catoshi to GOstakemine: 9ZXB6W3iQD6SYVYDoEVg6zu59zqXuP2uvv

if you think I'm an idiot, send a catoshi to NOstakemine: 9VFA3tqbPXNL1xR9tdAJ8uQsP2YciXxjTn

If you want me to hurry up and write the fracking code, buy a catwarmer http://www.reddit.com/r/CatcoinTrades/comments/1u7ppy/good_catwarmer_for_catcoin_scrypt_mining_rig/ , or better yet, just rent time on it and keep the cats warm. (I barely survived all the winter is coming memes)

[Evilish]

It's been quite a few days since the launch and there isn't any marketplace for CAT yet, so I've got an idea. We can start a marketplace in which we'll sell stuff for Catcoins. We will sell digital goods like steam/origin games (I've got some to start with plus I can get much more for cheaper price than usual), Skype/Netflix/Hulu codes and maybe XBOX/Microsoft/Playstation codes/vouchers. I've got some money to buy a domain and hosting to start everything off, but we'll need a coder to code such a script for us and some more people buying things for IRL money to sell for Cats. I'm sure there might be someone in here who can code decently.

So what do you guys say?

[TheLotusPod]

It's been quite a few days since the launch and there isn't any marketplace for CAT yet, so I've got an idea. We can start a marketplace in which we'll sell stuff for Catcoins. We will sell digital goods like steam/origin games (I've got some to start with plus I can get much more for cheaper price than usual), Skype/Netflix/Hulu codes and maybe XBOX/Microsoft/Playstation codes/vouchers. I've got some money to buy a domain and hosting to start everything off, but we'll need a coder to code such a script for us and some more people buying things for IRL money to sell for Cats. I'm sure there might be someone in here who can code decently.

So what do you guys say?

GREAT idea. I will personally list some nice items for sale for cat to help get things going as well

[LeoC]

I have an extra copy of Natural Selection 2 that I can gift. The game cost $25 but I'll let it go for 20 CAT. It's a great multiplayer game.

A marketplace would be a great idea. Imagine a system where people can sell items at a discounted price for CAT. This will lead to people buying CAT to purchase these discounted items. Then this will lead to increased CAT prices, which would both offset the discount and bring in more hashpower, rinse and repeat as the cycle continues ad infinitum. Anyone want to buy a Mercedes Benz for 150,000 CAT?

[Evilish]

I have an extra copy of Natural Selection 2 that I can gift. The game cost $25 but I'll let it go for 20 CAT. It's a great multiplayer game.

A marketplace would be a great idea. Imagine a system where people can sell items at a discounted price for CAT. This will lead to people buying CAT to purchase these discounted items. Then this will lead to increased CAT prices, which would both offset the discount and bring in more hashpower, rinse and repeat as the cycle continues ad infinitum. Anyone want to buy a Mercedes Benz for 150,000 CAT?

But for that to work, we'll first need someone to code the website. I'm sure once the website is up and running well, CAT will have more interest from people.