8th Alt coin thread. Or what to do now that asics are all over the place.

[Marvell2]

Looks like the Equihash ASICs are affecting most GPUs it seems.

Basically I still got a bunch of Radeon 7950/7970/R9 280X from the Litecoin days.

Mined LTC then DARKCOIN then ETH then ZEC with those for the last 5 years or so...

They were mostly on ZEC since the day it came out because the DAG of ETH slowed them down too much.

Luckily they still work on Cryptonight V7 and also can run at the lowest possible voltage (0.950V) while maintaining almost 600H/s. From the wall its like 125 watts or so. Basically seems like a waste of a GPU since these beasts used to pull 350 Watts from the wall each while mining LTC.

Sooner or later will be time to pack them up and probably put them in my museum. Doubt they will go for much on eBay or Craigslist and 80% of them got faulty fans.

Both AMD and NVIDIA farms are mining XMR currently with lowest acceptable hashrate to save on power bill during this poor BTC price and ASICs madness.

Meanwhile, 28 of my 1080ti -- seems like a waste mining CN7 -- all that power but easily matched with cheaper RX Polaris cards..... so I have been testing BYTOM. The algo is "tensority" and currently supported by Bminer ZEC miner v9.

Yes, Antminer B3s are all over this coin too and selling at 3k-ish at Eastshore. I dont see the B3 in the Bitmain shop anymore - wonder why. Specs: 780H/s at 360watts. Currently Top 50 @37 cents, https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bytom/

I have tested mining with my best 1080ti test-rig, ZOTAC AMP Extreme 3xGPU rig getting around 3300H/s capped at 170w per card. Rig running SMOS/bminer v9 (with BYTOM support).

I see Binance listing the coin soon, so looks like this Bytom platform may get a following - reading the project whitepaper - its quite impressive that a full mainnet is already out, at a glance similar to EOS or ADA, but maybe localized only to China market.

Do I smell a winner here -- or do we say bye-bye to GPU mining altogether?

there’s plenty of x16 and cn fork coins to mine that are stupidly undervalued, i don’t get the doom and gloom sentiment on gpus, yeah ok gone are the three month roi days we are back to a year or so before you get your investments back... um thata the norm , 2015 and 2016 were an exception not the norm.

gpu mining in the past as mine and hold speculative investing , where the ones who get rich pay their electric and other costs either with exceas hash or holding a job. 

ppl are just spoiled rotten.  Personally Im glad for this semi downturn , we needed a dose of reality to shake out the moonkids and weak hands

[1714466490]

1714466490

[1714466490]

1714466490

[1714466490]

1714466490

[1714466490]

1714466490

[jmigdlc99]

I have the impression to not buy any more GPU of this generation for mining.

wait for the next round;  where things will be back into the green again.

until then, make the best you can with what you have, or turn off and wait for a change before things move up.  If you need to shut off for a month or two;  I would assume most professional farms have earned a "vacation" from 24/7 work....  at the cost of a month or two rent.   I think it would have been one of my professional strategies if I had taken the loan and opened my own legit farm....  but I myself am glad that I didn't.   I just kick myself for not spending when I should and could have..... I'd have earned hand over fist more.



Also remember, BTC is reaching it's low.  Think back to BTC==$200.    We are in that territory again, but since BTC is already established;  recovery should be swift.   If it is;  imagine the profit ratio on the climb of the real "third spike" in price that things of value tend to do when traded.........   That's going to be the honey-pot.   I think selling anything right now is purely weak hands... unless your business profile dictates it.

But Once BTC rises back up to 10K... profitability I think would be less of a concern for most.   20k+, everyone would be happy.

That's a nice blue sky scenario... but there are arguments against it.
The rise to 20K was a massive pump, aka market manipulation.
The vast majority of BTC are split amongst a few addresses.

Two points that speak against decentralisation AND efficient markets.

Everyone's expecting BTC to break records and get to new crazy highs. Most people haven't even considered that this might just never happen.

I'd say those are two weak arguments because they are purely speculation without evidence. On the other hand, i have two counter-arguments that are all for bitcoin rising in value again.

1. Bitcoin is ever-improving. Scalability is being addressed, mass adoption rates are growing, and people are becoming more aware of avoiding scams.
2. Cryptocurrencies add value to services. They cut out the middleman and offer a solution for the efficient transfer of value.

Have you considered that maybe that is why "everyone" (your words) is expecting BTC to break records and get to new crazy highs?

[rs1x]

Looks like the Equihash ASICs are affecting most GPUs it seems.

Basically I still got a bunch of Radeon 7950/7970/R9 280X from the Litecoin days.

Mined LTC then DARKCOIN then ETH then ZEC with those for the last 5 years or so...

They were mostly on ZEC since the day it came out because the DAG of ETH slowed them down too much.

Luckily they still work on Cryptonight V7 and also can run at the lowest possible voltage (0.950V) while maintaining almost 600H/s. From the wall its like 125 watts or so. Basically seems like a waste of a GPU since these beasts used to pull 350 Watts from the wall each while mining LTC.

Sooner or later will be time to pack them up and probably put them in my museum. Doubt they will go for much on eBay or Craigslist and 80% of them got faulty fans.

Both AMD and NVIDIA farms are mining XMR currently with lowest acceptable hashrate to save on power bill during this poor BTC price and ASICs madness.

Meanwhile, 28 of my 1080ti -- seems like a waste mining CN7 -- all that power but easily matched with cheaper RX Polaris cards..... so I have been testing BYTOM. The algo is "tensority" and currently supported by Bminer ZEC miner v9.

Yes, Antminer B3s are all over this coin too and selling at 3k-ish at Eastshore. I dont see the B3 in the Bitmain shop anymore - wonder why. Specs: 780H/s at 360watts. Currently Top 50 @37 cents, https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bytom/

I have tested mining with my best 1080ti test-rig, ZOTAC AMP Extreme 3xGPU rig getting around 3300H/s capped at 170w per card. Rig running SMOS/bminer v9 (with BYTOM support).

I see Binance listing the coin soon, so looks like this Bytom platform may get a following - reading the project whitepaper - its quite impressive that a full mainnet is already out, at a glance similar to EOS or ADA, but maybe localized only to China market.

Do I smell a winner here -- or do we say bye-bye to GPU mining altogether?

I'm following you here - with one rig.  I'm using F2POOL - Some of the text is in chinese, which I cannot read.

Do you know what threshold for payouts are and if I need to register for a payout?

[ZedZedNova]

I have the impression to not buy any more GPU of this generation for mining.

wait for the next round;  where things will be back into the green again.

until then, make the best you can with what you have, or turn off and wait for a change before things move up.  If you need to shut off for a month or two;  I would assume most professional farms have earned a "vacation" from 24/7 work....  at the cost of a month or two rent.   I think it would have been one of my professional strategies if I had taken the loan and opened my own legit farm....  but I myself am glad that I didn't.   I just kick myself for not spending when I should and could have..... I'd have earned hand over fist more.



Also remember, BTC is reaching it's low.  Think back to BTC==$200.    We are in that territory again, but since BTC is already established;  recovery should be swift.   If it is;  imagine the profit ratio on the climb of the real "third spike" in price that things of value tend to do when traded.........   That's going to be the honey-pot.   I think selling anything right now is purely weak hands... unless your business profile dictates it.

But Once BTC rises back up to 10K... profitability I think would be less of a concern for most.   20k+, everyone would be happy.

That's a nice blue sky scenario... but there are arguments against it.
The rise to 20K was a massive pump, aka market manipulation.
The vast majority of BTC are split amongst a few addresses.

Two points that speak against decentralisation AND efficient markets.

Everyone's expecting BTC to break records and get to new crazy highs. Most people haven't even considered that this might just never happen.

I'd say those are two weak arguments because they are purely speculation without evidence. On the other hand, i have two counter-arguments that are all for bitcoin rising in value again.

1. Bitcoin is ever-improving. Scalability is being addressed, mass adoption rates are growing, and people are becoming more aware of avoiding scams.
2. Cryptocurrencies add value to services. They cut out the middleman and offer a solution for the efficient transfer of value.

Have you considered that maybe that is why "everyone" (your words) is expecting BTC to break records and get to new crazy highs?

It will certainly be interesting to see what happens over the next few months as the US Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) and the US Department of Justice (DOJ) proceed with their price manipulation investigations, and what comes of it. If the CFTC and DOJ give the futures markets (CME Group) and the exchanges a thumbs up (most likely with fines or warnings involved, along with a requirement to be more transparent/forthcoming with pricing info when requested), then there could be significant money flowing into the crypto market from the likes of Goldman Sachs, et al, who start creating investment vehicles for institutions or people not interested in hodling the coins themselves, but rather through some kind of custodian.

How much money? I don't know, but it could be significant. Am I speculating? Why yes, yes I am, but this is cryptocurrencies, and what are cryptos if not speculation?     Oh, yeah, they hold value and can be used to transact business, too. My bad. 

[Biodom]

Got Z9 mini today, 10.95 ksols without overclock.
All my beloved GPUs now look stale.
Not a good feeling, but i already sold half of them anyway.

Selling that Z9 on marketplace, come and get it if you want it.
Why? Getting out of mineable alts.

EDIT: those who think that futures help are delusional. Futures are a tool to bring down the 'plebs'.

[citronick]

Looks like the Equihash ASICs are affecting most GPUs it seems.

Basically I still got a bunch of Radeon 7950/7970/R9 280X from the Litecoin days.

Mined LTC then DARKCOIN then ETH then ZEC with those for the last 5 years or so...

They were mostly on ZEC since the day it came out because the DAG of ETH slowed them down too much.

Luckily they still work on Cryptonight V7 and also can run at the lowest possible voltage (0.950V) while maintaining almost 600H/s. From the wall its like 125 watts or so. Basically seems like a waste of a GPU since these beasts used to pull 350 Watts from the wall each while mining LTC.

Sooner or later will be time to pack them up and probably put them in my museum. Doubt they will go for much on eBay or Craigslist and 80% of them got faulty fans.

Both AMD and NVIDIA farms are mining XMR currently with lowest acceptable hashrate to save on power bill during this poor BTC price and ASICs madness.

Meanwhile, 28 of my 1080ti -- seems like a waste mining CN7 -- all that power but easily matched with cheaper RX Polaris cards..... so I have been testing BYTOM. The algo is "tensority" and currently supported by Bminer ZEC miner v9.

Yes, Antminer B3s are all over this coin too and selling at 3k-ish at Eastshore. I dont see the B3 in the Bitmain shop anymore - wonder why. Specs: 780H/s at 360watts. Currently Top 50 @37 cents, https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bytom/

I have tested mining with my best 1080ti test-rig, ZOTAC AMP Extreme 3xGPU rig getting around 3300H/s capped at 170w per card. Rig running SMOS/bminer v9 (with BYTOM support).

I see Binance listing the coin soon, so looks like this Bytom platform may get a following - reading the project whitepaper - its quite impressive that a full mainnet is already out, at a glance similar to EOS or ADA, but maybe localized only to China market.

Do I smell a winner here -- or do we say bye-bye to GPU mining altogether?

I'm following you here - with one rig.  I'm using F2POOL - Some of the text is in chinese, which I cannot read.

Do you know what threshold for payouts are and if I need to register for a payout?

I am using beepool and mining to Bytom official wallet - first few payments already received.

bminer-v9.0.0   

-uri tensority://bm1qczccf363zy42lvmnan03393f43532wudl2ea43.$rigName@btm-pool.beepool.org:9502

Google Translate is our friend...

[dragonmike]

I have the impression to not buy any more GPU of this generation for mining.

wait for the next round;  where things will be back into the green again.

until then, make the best you can with what you have, or turn off and wait for a change before things move up.  If you need to shut off for a month or two;  I would assume most professional farms have earned a "vacation" from 24/7 work....  at the cost of a month or two rent.   I think it would have been one of my professional strategies if I had taken the loan and opened my own legit farm....  but I myself am glad that I didn't.   I just kick myself for not spending when I should and could have..... I'd have earned hand over fist more.



Also remember, BTC is reaching it's low.  Think back to BTC==$200.    We are in that territory again, but since BTC is already established;  recovery should be swift.   If it is;  imagine the profit ratio on the climb of the real "third spike" in price that things of value tend to do when traded.........   That's going to be the honey-pot.   I think selling anything right now is purely weak hands... unless your business profile dictates it.

But Once BTC rises back up to 10K... profitability I think would be less of a concern for most.   20k+, everyone would be happy.

That's a nice blue sky scenario... but there are arguments against it.
The rise to 20K was a massive pump, aka market manipulation.
The vast majority of BTC are split amongst a few addresses.

Two points that speak against decentralisation AND efficient markets.

Everyone's expecting BTC to break records and get to new crazy highs. Most people haven't even considered that this might just never happen.

I'd say those are two weak arguments because they are purely speculation without evidence. On the other hand, i have two counter-arguments that are all for bitcoin rising in value again.

1. Bitcoin is ever-improving. Scalability is being addressed, mass adoption rates are growing, and people are becoming more aware of avoiding scams.
2. Cryptocurrencies add value to services. They cut out the middleman and offer a solution for the efficient transfer of value.

Have you considered that maybe that is why "everyone" (your words) is expecting BTC to break records and get to new crazy highs?

LoL dude, you don't have to preach to me, I wouldn't be here otherwise! I have considered many things, thank you very much!

I was just playing devil's advocate... while at the same time putting a bit of a damper on people's euphoric statements (like you just did). What in the things you mentioned gives BTC an intrinsic worth of $10K? Or $20K? Or $100K?... Or $1? There is no tangible value, hence it's purely driven by speculation, supply and demand.

Until the majority holders (the clearly documented small group of them) sell all their coins, there is no diversification and no efficient markets. BTC is far from being the most technically interesting coin out there. Currently blockchain is still in infancy, it is still in that stage where it's offering solutions to non-(yet)existent problems.

Nobody is disputing the technology.
We cannot, today, agree on how much BTC is worth. And the few altcoins with good potential... and the whole plethora of shitcoins that should be dead and buried (but unfortunately keep popping up, diluting market cap even more every day).

[nsummy]

Looks like the Equihash ASICs are affecting most GPUs it seems.

Basically I still got a bunch of Radeon 7950/7970/R9 280X from the Litecoin days.

Mined LTC then DARKCOIN then ETH then ZEC with those for the last 5 years or so...

They were mostly on ZEC since the day it came out because the DAG of ETH slowed them down too much.

Luckily they still work on Cryptonight V7 and also can run at the lowest possible voltage (0.950V) while maintaining almost 600H/s. From the wall its like 125 watts or so. Basically seems like a waste of a GPU since these beasts used to pull 350 Watts from the wall each while mining LTC.

Sooner or later will be time to pack them up and probably put them in my museum. Doubt they will go for much on eBay or Craigslist and 80% of them got faulty fans.

Both AMD and NVIDIA farms are mining XMR currently with lowest acceptable hashrate to save on power bill during this poor BTC price and ASICs madness.

Meanwhile, 28 of my 1080ti -- seems like a waste mining CN7 -- all that power but easily matched with cheaper RX Polaris cards..... so I have been testing BYTOM. The algo is "tensority" and currently supported by Bminer ZEC miner v9.

Yes, Antminer B3s are all over this coin too and selling at 3k-ish at Eastshore. I dont see the B3 in the Bitmain shop anymore - wonder why. Specs: 780H/s at 360watts. Currently Top 50 @37 cents, https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bytom/

I have tested mining with my best 1080ti test-rig, ZOTAC AMP Extreme 3xGPU rig getting around 3300H/s capped at 170w per card. Rig running SMOS/bminer v9 (with BYTOM support).

I see Binance listing the coin soon, so looks like this Bytom platform may get a following - reading the project whitepaper - its quite impressive that a full mainnet is already out, at a glance similar to EOS or ADA, but maybe localized only to China market.

Do I smell a winner here -- or do we say bye-bye to GPU mining altogether?

I'm following you here - with one rig.  I'm using F2POOL - Some of the text is in chinese, which I cannot read.

Do you know what threshold for payouts are and if I need to register for a payout?

Check this out:  https://miningpoolstats.stream/bytom   Note that antpool won't work with the bminer software.  I believe the payouts only happen once a day.  I stopped mining it though because the profitability has dropped quite a bit.

[philipma1957]

eth enlargement pill  and my hybrid 1080tis like each other.

https://www.nicehash.com/miner/1JdC6Xg3ajT3rge3FgPNSYYFpmf53Vbtje

about 1.30 to 2.00 a card 


and hash  fluxes at nicehash from 135 to 180


but in house hash is 153 for 3 cards  or 51 a card

[R0mi]

<snip>

I'd say those are two weak arguments because they are purely speculation without evidence. On the other hand, i have two counter-arguments that are all for bitcoin rising in value again.

1. Bitcoin is ever-improving. Scalability is being addressed, mass adoption rates are growing, and people are becoming more aware of avoiding scams.
2. Cryptocurrencies add value to services. They cut out the middleman and offer a solution for the efficient transfer of value.

Have you considered that maybe that is why "everyone" (your words) is expecting BTC to break records and get to new crazy highs?

No, those arguments are not just "speculation," at least not the first one about manipulation to get to the 20K level.  Just Google the Tether/Bitfinex story and go the paper put out by the professor in Texas.  Not his first paper about financial markets and manipulation, and qualified peers take his work seriously.  I don't think Bitcoin hits 20K this year.  I don't think it will hit "crazy new highs" this year either.

And if I am right about that, it puts a damper on most every other alt-coin as well.

John M. Griffin
University of Texas at Austin - Department of Finance

Amin Shams
University of Texas at Austin - Department of Finance

Date Written: June 13, 2018

Abstract
This paper investigates whether Tether, a digital currency pegged to U.S. dollars, influences Bitcoin and other cryptocurrency prices during the recent boom. Using algorithms to analyze the blockchain data, we find that purchases with Tether are timed following market downturns and result in sizable increases in Bitcoin prices. Less than 1% of hours with such heavy Tether transactions are associated with 50% of the meteoric rise in Bitcoin and 64% of other top cryptocurrencies. The flow clusters below round prices, induces asymmetric auto-correlations in Bitcoin, and suggests incomplete Tether backing before month-ends. These patterns cannot be explained by investor demand proxies but are most consistent with the supply-based hypothesis where Tether is used to provide price support and manipulate cryptocurrency prices.

[DevelopmentBank]

-snip-

I'd say those are two weak arguments because they are purely speculation without evidence. On the other hand, i have two counter-arguments that are all for bitcoin rising in value again.

1. Bitcoin is ever-improving. Scalability is being addressed, mass adoption rates are growing, and people are becoming more aware of avoiding scams.
2. Cryptocurrencies add value to services. They cut out the middleman and offer a solution for the efficient transfer of value.

Have you considered that maybe that is why "everyone" (your words) is expecting BTC to break records and get to new crazy highs?

No, those arguments are not just "speculation," at least not the first one about manipulation to get to the 20K level.  Just Google the Tether/Bitfinex story and go the paper put out by the professor in Texas.  Not his first paper about financial markets and manipulation, and qualified peers take his work seriously.  I don't think Bitcoin hits 20K this year.  I don't think it will hit "crazy new highs" this year either.

And if I am right about that, it puts a damper on most every other alt-coin as well.

John M. Griffin
University of Texas at Austin - Department of Finance

Amin Shams
University of Texas at Austin - Department of Finance

Date Written: June 13, 2018

Abstract
This paper investigates whether Tether, a digital currency pegged to U.S. dollars, influences Bitcoin and other cryptocurrency prices during the recent boom. Using algorithms to analyze the blockchain data, we find that purchases with Tether are timed following market downturns and result in sizable increases in Bitcoin prices. Less than 1% of hours with such heavy Tether transactions are associated with 50% of the meteoric rise in Bitcoin and 64% of other top cryptocurrencies. The flow clusters below round prices, induces asymmetric auto-correlations in Bitcoin, and suggests incomplete Tether backing before month-ends. These patterns cannot be explained by investor demand proxies but are most consistent with the supply-based hypothesis where Tether is used to provide price support and manipulate cryptocurrency prices.

Found a direct link to the article you mentioned: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3195066

Didn't realize there were actually academic articles analyzing bitcoin trading. That being said, I don't know how to feel about this. It seems like a giant FUD attempt that doesn't take into consideration the potential of crypto currencies to really change the world.

[R0mi]

-snip-

I'd say those are two weak arguments because they are purely speculation without evidence. On the other hand, i have two counter-arguments that are all for bitcoin rising in value again.

1. Bitcoin is ever-improving. Scalability is being addressed, mass adoption rates are growing, and people are becoming more aware of avoiding scams.
2. Cryptocurrencies add value to services. They cut out the middleman and offer a solution for the efficient transfer of value.

Have you considered that maybe that is why "everyone" (your words) is expecting BTC to break records and get to new crazy highs?

No, those arguments are not just "speculation," at least not the first one about manipulation to get to the 20K level.  Just Google the Tether/Bitfinex story and go the paper put out by the professor in Texas.  Not his first paper about financial markets and manipulation, and qualified peers take his work seriously.  I don't think Bitcoin hits 20K this year.  I don't think it will hit "crazy new highs" this year either.

And if I am right about that, it puts a damper on most every other alt-coin as well.

John M. Griffin
University of Texas at Austin - Department of Finance

Amin Shams
University of Texas at Austin - Department of Finance

Date Written: June 13, 2018

Abstract
This paper investigates whether Tether, a digital currency pegged to U.S. dollars, influences Bitcoin and other cryptocurrency prices during the recent boom. Using algorithms to analyze the blockchain data, we find that purchases with Tether are timed following market downturns and result in sizable increases in Bitcoin prices. Less than 1% of hours with such heavy Tether transactions are associated with 50% of the meteoric rise in Bitcoin and 64% of other top cryptocurrencies. The flow clusters below round prices, induces asymmetric auto-correlations in Bitcoin, and suggests incomplete Tether backing before month-ends. These patterns cannot be explained by investor demand proxies but are most consistent with the supply-based hypothesis where Tether is used to provide price support and manipulate cryptocurrency prices.

Found a direct link to the article you mentioned: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3195066

Didn't realize there were actually academic articles analyzing bitcoin trading. That being said, I don't know how to feel about this. It seems like a giant FUD attempt that doesn't take into consideration the potential of crypto currencies to really change the world.

FUD?  Really?  And Griffin's work about VIX manipulation, is that FUD, too?

It is a serious academic paper and it points pretty convincingly to market manipulation that others were commenting upon in real time back last November.  I forget the guy who was Tweeting about how $200 million in Tether were appearing out of nowhere each and every day.  I took note of his tweets but did not think it through to what it might mean for the market as a whole.

Does the paper take into account the potential of crypto currencies?  No, it does not.  But that isn't the point of this academic paper either.  The author did not set out to answer the question you pose.  He just investigated whether Tethers were used to manipulate market prices.

I don't like it either.  It doesn't make me feel good.  But I can't find any angle to dismiss it out of hand, and I've asked people who work in this academic field about it.  So regardless of "feelings" I think it is non-speculative information that should be taken into account.

Or not.  Suit yourself.

[R0mi]

Yes, but let's dust off the MagikSmoke 8 ball and look at the next few months:

Z9 will destroy Equihash in short order.  Probably will be a replay of the L3+.  There goes your 1080 Ti cash cow.

Well that took all of three weeks...  350 watts for about 5 1080 Ti rigs.  Ugh.

[lolchina]

-snip-

I'd say those are two weak arguments because they are purely speculation without evidence. On the other hand, i have two counter-arguments that are all for bitcoin rising in value again.

1. Bitcoin is ever-improving. Scalability is being addressed, mass adoption rates are growing, and people are becoming more aware of avoiding scams.
2. Cryptocurrencies add value to services. They cut out the middleman and offer a solution for the efficient transfer of value.

Have you considered that maybe that is why "everyone" (your words) is expecting BTC to break records and get to new crazy highs?

No, those arguments are not just "speculation," at least not the first one about manipulation to get to the 20K level.  Just Google the Tether/Bitfinex story and go the paper put out by the professor in Texas.  Not his first paper about financial markets and manipulation, and qualified peers take his work seriously.  I don't think Bitcoin hits 20K this year.  I don't think it will hit "crazy new highs" this year either.

And if I am right about that, it puts a damper on most every other alt-coin as well.

John M. Griffin
University of Texas at Austin - Department of Finance

Amin Shams
University of Texas at Austin - Department of Finance

Date Written: June 13, 2018

Abstract
This paper investigates whether Tether, a digital currency pegged to U.S. dollars, influences Bitcoin and other cryptocurrency prices during the recent boom. Using algorithms to analyze the blockchain data, we find that purchases with Tether are timed following market downturns and result in sizable increases in Bitcoin prices. Less than 1% of hours with such heavy Tether transactions are associated with 50% of the meteoric rise in Bitcoin and 64% of other top cryptocurrencies. The flow clusters below round prices, induces asymmetric auto-correlations in Bitcoin, and suggests incomplete Tether backing before month-ends. These patterns cannot be explained by investor demand proxies but are most consistent with the supply-based hypothesis where Tether is used to provide price support and manipulate cryptocurrency prices.

Found a direct link to the article you mentioned: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3195066

Didn't realize there were actually academic articles analyzing bitcoin trading. That being said, I don't know how to feel about this. It seems like a giant FUD attempt that doesn't take into consideration the potential of crypto currencies to really change the world.

Thats no fud thats the truth,similar situation is happening now because of low volume-few people open short/long position with x50 leverage on bitmex with for example 500 btc,then that same group of people buy/sell 1-3k btc on bitfinex for example pushing the price up/down where they need it to go(ussualy arround 200-300$ in one dirrection)Even as they are losing money trading on bitfinex x50 leverage on bittmex is making them more $ then they are spending.You can check all of this on charts where you can see 1-3k btc orders are filled in seconds without any reason even when TA is signaling otherwise

[philipma1957]

-snip-

I'd say those are two weak arguments because they are purely speculation without evidence. On the other hand, i have two counter-arguments that are all for bitcoin rising in value again.

1. Bitcoin is ever-improving. Scalability is being addressed, mass adoption rates are growing, and people are becoming more aware of avoiding scams.
2. Cryptocurrencies add value to services. They cut out the middleman and offer a solution for the efficient transfer of value.

Have you considered that maybe that is why "everyone" (your words) is expecting BTC to break records and get to new crazy highs?

No, those arguments are not just "speculation," at least not the first one about manipulation to get to the 20K level.  Just Google the Tether/Bitfinex story and go the paper put out by the professor in Texas.  Not his first paper about financial markets and manipulation, and qualified peers take his work seriously.  I don't think Bitcoin hits 20K this year.  I don't think it will hit "crazy new highs" this year either.

And if I am right about that, it puts a damper on most every other alt-coin as well.

John M. Griffin
University of Texas at Austin - Department of Finance

Amin Shams
University of Texas at Austin - Department of Finance

Date Written: June 13, 2018

Abstract
This paper investigates whether Tether, a digital currency pegged to U.S. dollars, influences Bitcoin and other cryptocurrency prices during the recent boom. Using algorithms to analyze the blockchain data, we find that purchases with Tether are timed following market downturns and result in sizable increases in Bitcoin prices. Less than 1% of hours with such heavy Tether transactions are associated with 50% of the meteoric rise in Bitcoin and 64% of other top cryptocurrencies. The flow clusters below round prices, induces asymmetric auto-correlations in Bitcoin, and suggests incomplete Tether backing before month-ends. These patterns cannot be explained by investor demand proxies but are most consistent with the supply-based hypothesis where Tether is used to provide price support and manipulate cryptocurrency prices.

Found a direct link to the article you mentioned: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3195066

Didn't realize there were actually academic articles analyzing bitcoin trading. That being said, I don't know how to feel about this. It seems like a giant FUD attempt that doesn't take into consideration the potential of crypto currencies to really change the world.

Thats no fud thats the truth,similar situation is happening now because of low volume-few people open short/long position with x50 leverage on bitmex with for example 500 btc,then that same group of people buy/sell 1-3k btc on bitfinex for example pushing the price up/down where they need it to go(ussualy arround 200-300$ in one dirrection)Even as they are losing money trading on bitfinex x50 leverage on bittmex is making them more $ then they are spending.You can check all of this on charts where you can see 1-3k btc orders are filled in seconds without any reason even when TA is signaling otherwise

yeah  it is an issue.  kind of like 3  or 4 dow jones indexes delinked on different exchanges.

unless  exchanges coordinate better these moves won't stop.

 tighter margins  10 to 1  vs 50 to 1  by every exchange would cut it back a lot.

or even only 5 to 1 margins.  these restrictions have been done on stock exchanges at times and may be needed to be done with crypto coins.

at the moment. i am mostly in cash.

I am using eth pill for my 1080ti's

[kopija]

Zcash has spoken and declared love for ASIC. Democracy at its finest
https://www.coindesk.com/zcash-governance-panel-shoots-research-asic-resistance/
https://vote.heliosvoting.org/helios/elections/cdc15aa6-6f75-11e8-b5e0-0e48ec97cebb/view

[VoskCoin]

Zcash has spoken and declared love for ASIC. Democracy at its finest
https://www.coindesk.com/zcash-governance-panel-shoots-research-asic-resistance/
https://vote.heliosvoting.org/helios/elections/cdc15aa6-6f75-11e8-b5e0-0e48ec97cebb/view

it is a sad time for GPU mining T_T

[Elder III]

Yeah, not at all surprised by ZCash there.  As long as they have a nice fat 20% founders reward on every single block they aren't going to give a rat's ass about how those blocks are mined. :p

[lok8nusa]

Apparently, only 64 people are relevant in Zcash.
https://www.coindesk.com/zcash-governance-panel-shoots-research-asic-resistance/

[philipma1957]

Yeah, not at all surprised by ZCash there.  As long as they have a nice fat 20% founders reward on every single block they aren't going to give a rat's ass about how those blocks are mined. :p

well the coin was once 866 usd  it is now 185 usd.

I can't help but think they believe price will go higher this way.

 I  am mining on the eth pill earning 1.35 a card spending 180 watts a card