8th Alt coin thread. Or what to do now that asics are all over the place.

[generalt]

Although I would love to have a 16 fpga  beast from KJS

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4553947.msg41248146#msg41248146

Wow that thing looks beastly!  Makes me realize how much of a small time miner I am.

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[R0mi]

Some people have reported making a killing on it, especially in our current market

Well, that's the rub.  People *have* been making a killing mining this coin because it is not easy nor obvious how to multi-gpu mine it.  I understand difficulty has shot up because of guides and better help on Reddit about the multigpu issue.

https://mega.nz/#!TNYhjSqI!QxY_m_CsMknTNv43B5AvrpcmZrSFnfLdYaqsFmbxekA

Fairly clear guide on multi-gpu setup that gathers a lot of Reddit info.

Please don't take my post as financial advice, because it isn't.  I have no idea of where this coin will go over the next six months.

[philipma1957]

Although I would love to have a 16 fpga  beast from KJS

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4553947.msg41248146#msg41248146

Wow that thing looks beastly!  Makes me realize how much of a small time miner I am.

In dec/Jan 2017/2018. I had 30 1080tis and 20 1070tis

I was around 30000 sols and making around 300 a day.

It was nice while it lasted.

[badfad]

...
But wait, there's more!  WTC also seems to involve a multi-level marketing scheme adapted to MasterNodes, with side nodes and GrandMaster nodes...

If they make GrandMaster Flash nodes available then sign me up!

I really just wanted to say thanks for the analysis. I ran across this coin earlier while hunting the infamous, and not at all scarce, haiku bot and thought the idea was idiotic, and also noticed the lack of information on how to mine it. So, excellent work.

Also, that site in your sig is hilarious!

Thanks.  I've wasted about half the day trying to figure this one out.  There is a ton of money invested in this one and a serious, serious PR/Marketing effort going on.  I downloaded their latest Windows wallet from GitHub today and, wow -- what a pos from a $250 million market cap company with about 50 IEEE/software/blockchain/IOT geniuses on its team.  The wallet mines using one of your GPUs.  That's right, just one.  Meanwhile, over on the YouTubes, it is apparent that those in know have figured out a way around this and have been mining the living cr*p out of this coin for the past three months.  When you ask why the current Windows wallet is a hobbled piece of ...., the reply is "to promote decentralization."  Ah, I see, that explains everything.  Decentralization, sure, sure.  But I'm sure Walton Coin will have another glorious pamp before it eventually implodes and the rascals scurry off.  And so it goes.  Pootie tweet!

You echo my own thoughts. The way they handled mining on WTC just screamed "scam" . I mean you want a lot of hashpower so you won't be easily attacked, but then you limit mining as hard as possible for the general public? WTF? well 2 scenarios how this plays out:
1.You have your own private software and you controll 90% of the hashrate, while public hashes at 25kh/s or whatever the wallet says
2.Someone with knowledge and hashrate is gonna build a miner and take over the network, already happened.

If you look at the WTC "community"/subreddit it's mostly made up of moonboys from dec 17, most have no clue how mining works, or what goal it serves, so this wouldn't eaxctly be hard to pull off.

[Tidsdilatation]

Although I would love to have a 16 fpga  beast from KJS

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4553947.msg41248146#msg41248146

Wow that thing looks beastly!  Makes me realize how much of a small time miner I am.

In dec/Jan 2017/2018. I had 30 1080tis and 20 1070tis

I was around 30000 sols and making around 300 a day.

It was nice while it lasted.

How much would the same amount of hash make today? How far down are we?

[Stubo]

Although I would love to have a 16 fpga  beast from KJS

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4553947.msg41248146#msg41248146

Wow that thing looks beastly!  Makes me realize how much of a small time miner I am.

In dec/Jan 2017/2018. I had 30 1080tis and 20 1070tis

I was around 30000 sols and making around 300 a day.

It was nice while it lasted.

How much would the same amount of hash make today? How far down are we?

Per whattomine.com, 30k sols would earn about $50 on an equihash coin today.

[philipma1957]

Although I would love to have a 16 fpga  beast from KJS

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4553947.msg41248146#msg41248146

Wow that thing looks beastly!  Makes me realize how much of a small time miner I am.

In dec/Jan 2017/2018. I had 30 1080tis and 20 1070tis

I was around 30000 sols and making around 300 a day.

It was nice while it lasted.

How much would the same amount of hash make today? How far down are we?

Per whattomine.com, 30k sols would earn about $50 on an equihash coin today.

So at least 180k sols or  180 1080tis and 120 1070tis

[R0mi]

<snip>
To the best of my knowledge, its a legit setup and youtuber Boxmining actually visited their shop and interviewed them. They also showcased their blockchain based RFID application. Promising project actually but it didnt give me that 1000x vibe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzhXncTVOzA

<snip>

Thought experiment: 

Freeze that video at 1:09, 1:12, 1:14.  Look at all young guys in the room as the interviewer first walks in.  At 1:12-1:14, does the monitor visible in the lower left corner look like someone coding, or does it appear to be a social media site?  Does it look like anyone is coding anything in that large open space with young people and monitors?  Are you able to connect any of the people sitting inside that office (which based on the "Cityscape" sign appears to be rented space) when the interviewer walks in and match them to the photos at the back of the white paper (the "team")?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2127069.msg41741569#msg41741569

The above post ^^^ from the WTC thread is pretty typical.  A new user, with just three posts to his credit.  He not only took the time to look at the document I linked to, he even comments on it:

"I am now following this project. Read the whitepaper (May 2018 version), verified the team, read their patents, appreciated their government connections and presence in China and Korea IoT and Blockchain industry, their vision, careful planning, modesty and seriousness. This is all very impressive, unlike most (any?) other project I have investigated.

I am really dumbfounded with people still calling them scam or "pie in the sky" Huh"
---

He has verified the team?  Really?  How?
What patents?  Anyone can apply for a patent, show me an actual granted patent.

This is shilling on a grand, grand scale.

[abruchifid]

I know ASICs are much more efficient as far mining btc is concerned but i kind of prefer GPUS for the single advantage you can easily mine other coins with them especially if bitcoin becomes unprofitable.May be its time to sell them off(ASICS)

[Dentidan]

I know ASICs are much more efficient as far mining btc is concerned but i kind of prefer GPUS for the single advantage you can easily mine other coins with them especially if bitcoin becomes unprofitable.May be its time to sell them off(ASICS)

You will need some coins to offer the GPU friendly PoW. Most of the big coins have ASIC now.

[teskostecenje]

I know ASICs are much more efficient as far mining btc is concerned but i kind of prefer GPUS for the single advantage you can easily mine other coins with them especially if bitcoin becomes unprofitable.May be its time to sell them off(ASICS)

You will need some coins to offer the GPU friendly PoW. Most of the big coins have ASIC now.

while smaller coins/algos are being taken over by fpgas,lux forked in attempt to fight them off but it seems to be useles.Latest bitstream is for 0x token,currently they are doing about x10-x15 higher speed then 1 1080ti on way lower power ofc

[MagicSmoker]

while smaller coins/algos are being taken over by fpgas,lux forked in attempt to fight them off but it seems to be useles.Latest bitstream is for 0x token,currently they are doing about x10-x15 higher speed then 1 1080ti on way lower power ofc

Yeah, but that FPGA costs $4000 (correction - might cost $6000 now, as Xilinx is no dummy about repricing in the face of a sudden increase in demand).

So, about 5x (to 9x) the price for 10x-15x the speed. Not nearly as impressive when put into context.

[dragonmike]

<snip>
To the best of my knowledge, its a legit setup and youtuber Boxmining actually visited their shop and interviewed them. They also showcased their blockchain based RFID application. Promising project actually but it didnt give me that 1000x vibe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzhXncTVOzA

<snip>

Thought experiment: 

Freeze that video at 1:09, 1:12, 1:14.  Look at all young guys in the room as the interviewer first walks in.  At 1:12-1:14, does the monitor visible in the lower left corner look like someone coding, or does it appear to be a social media site?  Does it look like anyone is coding anything in that large open space with young people and monitors?  Are you able to connect any of the people sitting inside that office (which based on the "Cityscape" sign appears to be rented space) when the interviewer walks in and match them to the photos at the back of the white paper (the "team")?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2127069.msg41741569#msg41741569

The above post ^^^ from the WTC thread is pretty typical.  A new user, with just three posts to his credit.  He not only took the time to look at the document I linked to, he even comments on it:

"I am now following this project. Read the whitepaper (May 2018 version), verified the team, read their patents, appreciated their government connections and presence in China and Korea IoT and Blockchain industry, their vision, careful planning, modesty and seriousness. This is all very impressive, unlike most (any?) other project I have investigated.

I am really dumbfounded with people still calling them scam or "pie in the sky" Huh"
---

He has verified the team?  Really?  How?
What patents?  Anyone can apply for a patent, show me an actual granted patent.

This is shilling on a grand, grand scale.

The sad thing is that this shilling - as many like to describe it nowadays - is omnipresent in crypto space. WTC is not the only sh1tcoin in the top100. The technology behind (let's call them) projects like EOS, IOTA, XVG, TRON or even XRP is full of holes, vulnerabilities and privacy loopholes. And it doesn't matter how many times you polish a turd, it will still be a turd (I'm looking at you, BCH).

Don't get me started about the new coin launches either. 99% of them are scams. And that's probably being conservative. They don't even bother with a whitepaper or even a timeline anymore, it's beyond retarded.

With the plethora of new (shit-)tokens coming out regularly too, the ETH chain is so congested you can't even sync a local wallet anymore. ETH has got their back against the wall. If they don't change anything presto, we're gonna need another ecosystem.

Let's hope there's future in the Hyperledger framework. I passed the course the other week. It does strike you how much in infancy the whole blockchain tech really (still) is... But the guys over at Linux Foundation seem pretty bright and motivated. If anyone's interested, head over to EDX.org. The course is free (you can choose to pay $200 for the certificate at the end). I've got no affiliation to the guys, btw this is not a promotional message. Just sharing what I found interesting (and might benefit others in here).

[philipma1957]

while smaller coins/algos are being taken over by fpgas,lux forked in attempt to fight them off but it seems to be useles.Latest bitstream is for 0x token,currently they are doing about x10-x15 higher speed then 1 1080ti on way lower power ofc

Yeah, but that FPGA costs $4000 (correction - might cost $6000 now, as Xilinx is no dummy about repricing in the face of a sudden increase in demand).

So, about 5x (to 9x) the price for 10x-15x the speed. Not nearly as impressive when put into context.

And if  an asic is built  it further damages that coin price.

Right now  no tech  for oddball coins has much promise.

all pow is based on converting electrical power into coins.

If gpus are going to be wiped out  only cheap power works to make profit.

Gpus had lots going for them  ie they have other uses and true resale.

asic and fpga will not have this.

gpus were available from real sellers world wide with real warranties.

ASics and FPGA don't do this

I still see hope for gpus  I see a rendering rental- combined with a render pow coin as a possibility .

[VoskCoin]

<snip>
To the best of my knowledge, its a legit setup and youtuber Boxmining actually visited their shop and interviewed them. They also showcased their blockchain based RFID application. Promising project actually but it didnt give me that 1000x vibe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzhXncTVOzA

<snip>

Thought experiment: 

Freeze that video at 1:09, 1:12, 1:14.  Look at all young guys in the room as the interviewer first walks in.  At 1:12-1:14, does the monitor visible in the lower left corner look like someone coding, or does it appear to be a social media site?  Does it look like anyone is coding anything in that large open space with young people and monitors?  Are you able to connect any of the people sitting inside that office (which based on the "Cityscape" sign appears to be rented space) when the interviewer walks in and match them to the photos at the back of the white paper (the "team")?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2127069.msg41741569#msg41741569

The above post ^^^ from the WTC thread is pretty typical.  A new user, with just three posts to his credit.  He not only took the time to look at the document I linked to, he even comments on it:

"I am now following this project. Read the whitepaper (May 2018 version), verified the team, read their patents, appreciated their government connections and presence in China and Korea IoT and Blockchain industry, their vision, careful planning, modesty and seriousness. This is all very impressive, unlike most (any?) other project I have investigated.

I am really dumbfounded with people still calling them scam or "pie in the sky" Huh"
---

He has verified the team?  Really?  How?
What patents?  Anyone can apply for a patent, show me an actual granted patent.

This is shilling on a grand, grand scale.

your posts are a breath of fresh air, thank you for not being a sheep

seems there is only a handful of people who see the reality of what is actually taking place -- otherwise just the typical blind leading the blind

losing GPU mining or something similar is going to kill the grassroots "marketing" if you will, of crypto. I would not be here if it was not for GPU mining for one, and I know that is also the case for many others

[QuintLeo]

losing GPU mining or something similar is going to kill the grassroots "marketing" if you will, of crypto. I would not be here if it was not for GPU mining for one, and I know that is also the case for many others

Won't be the first time that GPU mining "died" for the most part - consider 2014.

[philipma1957]

losing GPU mining or something similar is going to kill the grassroots "marketing" if you will, of crypto. I would not be here if it was not for GPU mining for one, and I know that is also the case for many others

Won't be the first time that GPU mining "died" for the most part - consider 2014.

yep and crytpo mining sucked until gpus made a comeback.

it is pretty simple  :

more then 100 million gpus can mine at a profit even now  it is true. (profit is tiny now)

take that away and adaptation  suffers greatly.

also really hurts pc sales.
look at this pc:

Omen 880-160se
Specs
Windows 10 Home
8th Generation Intel® Core™ i7+ 8700 (Core™ i7 and Intel® Optane™ memory)
8 GB memory
16 GB NVMe™M.2 SSD with Intel® Optane™ technology
1 TB HDD storage
Black Interior Paint; External 3.5" Bay; Air Cooling Solution (65w Processor)
Dual NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1080Ti 11G SLI
750 W Platinum efficiency power supply
No ODD Option
WLAN RT 8822 ac 2x2 +BT 4.2LE WW
Office Trial
McAfee Livesafe (30 day)


HP USB Wired Keyboard with volume control

2169 usd  a pretty good pc  and when the 1080ti earn 10 a day  this would earn 20  using 2 bucks power  which meant why not buy it and think of  as a clever rebate.

18 a day is 540 a month  or payback in 4 months.  If you mined 24/7 with it.

I still Have 1 of three left  killing this off was moron stupid.  Asic and fpga just needed to wait for a while more to let the base of miners grow bigger.

if they stayed away til 2019 or even later every one of us including them would have earned far more $$.

[R0mi]

The sad thing is that this shilling - as many like to describe it nowadays - is omnipresent in crypto space. WTC is not the only sh1tcoin in the top100. The technology behind (let's call them) projects like EOS, IOTA, XVG, TRON or even XRP is full of holes, vulnerabilities and privacy loopholes. And it doesn't matter how many times you polish a turd, it will still be a turd (I'm looking at you, BCH).

<snip>

Shilling about the "Internet" and transformational companies that mentioned that magic, hot word "Internet" was everywhere between 1997 and 1999.

I know how this movie ends because I've watched it before.

Ben Rickert (L3+ thread) is right:  When Millennials refer to crypto currencies as if they were cancer, the real companies will be left standing and the real projects will gather steam.

Judging from what is out there on YouTube and Reddit, we are not yet close to that moment.

I'd encourage people to look up John Hempton of Bronte Capital, a short seller with a website linking to other solid websites.  It's not the specifics of any report that are useful, it's more picking up on a healthy dose of skepticism and asking yourself how do you test what's real and what is hype and PR and smoke and mirrors that does not hold up.

It is a useful mindset to have, especially right about now.

I am done talking about WTC.  I appreciate the thank you's from a few people, I apologize for the unplanned detour to the rest of you.  If you want to mine it and dump it, look at the linked document I posted.

[adaseb]

I think history will repeat itself like it did between 2014-2016 and mining "might" be profitable again.


Basically people bought GPUs like crazy at the end of 2013 and first quarter of 2014. There was tons of GPUs mining. Then it cost more in electricity than profit so every quarter or so people sold their GPUs to gamers and left the mining world.

Then when 2016 came around... nobody was GPU mining anymore. And it took pretty much more than a year for the GPUs to be sold out everywhere.

Same thing will happen this time.

At the end of 2018... mining will become unprofitable. People will unplug their rigs... wait a year... still not profitable... then sell on eBay/Craiglist. When most GPUs get sold to gamers... that's when mining will become profitable again.

[Elder III]

while smaller coins/algos are being taken over by fpgas,lux forked in attempt to fight them off but it seems to be useles.Latest bitstream is for 0x token,currently they are doing about x10-x15 higher speed then 1 1080ti on way lower power ofc

Yeah, but that FPGA costs $4000 (correction - might cost $6000 now, as Xilinx is no dummy about repricing in the face of a sudden increase in demand).

So, about 5x (to 9x) the price for 10x-15x the speed. Not nearly as impressive when put into context.

And if  an asic is built  it further damages that coin price.

Right now  no tech  for oddball coins has much promise.

all pow is based on converting electrical power into coins.

If gpus are going to be wiped out  only cheap power works to make profit.

Gpus had lots going for them  ie they have other uses and true resale.

asic and fpga will not have this.

gpus were available from real sellers world wide with real warranties.

ASics and FPGA don't do this

I still see hope for gpus  I see a rendering rental- combined with a render pow coin as a possibility .

I agree with everything except for FPGAs not having any other use or resale value. If the proper software/bitstreams either exists or can be made, then you can use FPGAs for all sorts of useful things. The resale market is going to be much smaller, but they will still be of interest to people doing specialized work.

As for GPUs, I really hope either rendering or some type of protein folding research becomes a worthy option for GPUs since they're really good at it (at least the high end models).