8th Alt coin thread. Or what to do now that asics are all over the place.

[konqueror]

I mine this coin
https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bismuth/

Which pool do you mine? Most of BIS pools have insane 10% fees...

[1714473405]

1714473405

[JaredKaragen]

To be honest here;  I haven't splurged on buying any new video cards yet....     I am still holding out for 'that new model' that we know is being held back from us.
(remember word of a new model that is basically 4 1060 dies crammed together?)
I am waiting for that.

Until then, I keep my old cards, mining monero at home for the short-long term.  Luckily I can squeeze ~1800w steady out of home without any repercussions.

I have been speculating more than normal;  I have sunk nearly 0.1BTC+ into BUB.   No;  Im not trying to pimp the coin to sell;  I am buying to hodl.  I have been spending pretty much 99% of my crypto earnings over the last ~4-6 months on the coin... I am trying to bring awareness.  Verify my account balance: NTSb7P7yiKvFYuEMbSka6pnJaFb27pd4ni

Anyways, BUB aims to be a Decentralized Exchange.... I think it was the first concept 'coin' to be a 'DE'.  The main difference with bubble, is it plans to keep every aspect as decentralized as possible.    You sort of act like your own exchange in a manner of speaking..  Each user will have their bubble of influence.   Its basically going to be a very versatile crypto exchange with many many layers of features built in....

It can solve a lot of the escrow and other trading issues that would typically involve crypto and a trusted 3rd party.  The project owner has finally been producing some results;  to further the project after completing a bit of school.  Things look good.   I have been quietly excited about this since quite some time ago that I read up on the coin and bought into it when it was worth ~8-10K satoshis.  But back then, I did not hold, I placed sell orders to benefit from the many pumps the coin saw ~2 years back.

I know its only on one exchange;  and its yobit... which its 100% understandable that people are weary of.  In fact, I am still weary of them, and try to not keep assets on there for longer than necessary.... but they have yet to not pay me, or to mis-manage my funds... so fingers crossed....   

And yes I have withdrawn my bub from the exchange (instantly) and their wallet is online and fully functional....  I suggest you guys take a peek (link and address above).   The guy's language is colorful, and he has a lot of energy... and I have believe he is taking this from a sound approach; but more importantly, wants to see this project through to the end.
BUB Thread Here

I also suggest a google search to read through the other earlier threads on BUB.  See how it has transformed, and its initial roadmap before it became focused on the main goal first.

[philipma1957]

I mine this coin
https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bismuth/

Which pool do you mine? Most of BIS pools have insane 10% fees...

I pay 10% at eggpool

[KaydenC]

To be honest here;  I haven't splurged on buying any new video cards yet....     I am still holding out for 'that new model' that we know is being held back from us.
(remember word of a new model that is basically 4 1060 dies crammed together?)
I am waiting for that.

Here is a preview of dual P106 gpu by OhGodAGirl and she mentioned she have a dual P104 card laying around. 55mh/s Eth for Dual p106 at 150-175w, nothing groundbreaking given P102/1080ti can achieve this and GDDR6 cards right round the corner unless it's $400 usd.

So a dual 104 should do 80mh/s or so.

Video: https://youtu.be/A3i3jpJqgoo?t=24m37s

In this market I'm just holding, with sell limit orders between $700-800 set for my mined eth.

Last month I diversified to Baikal Giant X and looking to grab more equihash asic in the coming months. Moderately hopeful rendertoken or other forms of gpu marketplace gains traction this year.

[philipma1957]

To be honest here;  I haven't splurged on buying any new video cards yet....     I am still holding out for 'that new model' that we know is being held back from us.
(remember word of a new model that is basically 4 1060 dies crammed together?)
I am waiting for that.

Here is a preview of dual P106 gpu by OhGodAGirl and she mentioned she have a dual P104 card laying around. 55mh/s Eth for Dual p106 at 150-175w, nothing groundbreaking given P102/1080ti can achieve this and GDDR6 cards right round the corner unless it's $400 usd.

So a dual 104 should do 80mh/s or so.

Video: https://youtu.be/A3i3jpJqgoo?t=24m37s

In this market I'm just holding, with sell limit orders between $700-800 set for my mined eth.

Last month I diversified to Baikal Giant X and looking to grab more equihash asic in the coming months. Moderately hopeful rendertoken or other forms of gpu marketplace gains traction this year.

that is why I still hold some  gpus


I just moved some coin here



I have about 150 of them in wallets

[JaredKaragen]

To be honest here;  I haven't splurged on buying any new video cards yet....     I am still holding out for 'that new model' that we know is being held back from us.
(remember word of a new model that is basically 4 1060 dies crammed together?)
I am waiting for that.

Here is a preview of dual P106 gpu by OhGodAGirl and she mentioned she have a dual P104 card laying around. 55mh/s Eth for Dual p106 at 150-175w, nothing groundbreaking given P102/1080ti can achieve this and GDDR6 cards right round the corner unless it's $400 usd.

So a dual 104 should do 80mh/s or so.

Video: https://youtu.be/A3i3jpJqgoo?t=24m37s

The price point better be worth though.

Knowing how much people are trying to keep GPU value inflation up from 6 months ago;  It's hard for a little guy like me to justify a purchase of them....   And would rather take that risk on the 'latest and greatest' new version....   Knowing historically every new model has always had a major benefit over the previous generation at some point;  when it comes to ROI....   I feel I need to hold out for the new next best thing.


I am considering having an ASIC or two again;  but it needs to fall into the realm of the S3;  ~400W power consumption, and very inexpensive ($200 max purchase price) and easily re-sellable.     A smaller miner like me can easily justify it and find paths to ROI with my power and budget constraints.   When I see things like the D3 hit that range, where I can buy, use sell and buy again like I did with S3's a bit ago....  Winning strategy.

[dragonmike]

Moderately hopeful rendertoken or other forms of gpu marketplace gains traction this year.

Where are rendertoken currently at? Beta-testing still? Not currently giving out live rendering jobs yet are they?

Personally I'm still running all my rigs (RX 570's, Vegas and 1080's), although the latter are basically at breakeven point. nVidia clearly behind in terms of profitability for the last months.

I've ordered some fpga solutions: 1x BCU1525 from fpga.land, 1x Dwarfminer (yeah yeah I know, but it's only 400 bucks right - no risk no fun) and signed up for an Acorn too. Complexity of running them is above my skill set but I'm confident the community will help in getting them to run.

If the coin prices don't go back up I will turn off the 1080's. That'd be a sad day...

EDIT: not considering ASICs at all. Not out of snobism, but because they really make no sense currently unless you're in need of a big door-stopper.

[philipma1957]

Moderately hopeful rendertoken or other forms of gpu marketplace gains traction this year.

Where are rendertoken currently at? Beta-testing still? Not currently giving out live rendering jobs yet are they?

Personally I'm still running all my rigs (RX 570's, Vegas and 1080's), although the latter are basically at breakeven point. nVidia clearly behind in terms of profitability for the last months.

I've ordered some fpga solutions: 1x BCU1525 from fpga.land, 1x Dwarfminer (yeah yeah I know, but it's only 400 bucks right - no risk no fun) and signed up for an Acorn too. Complexity of running them is above my skill set but I'm confident the community will help in getting them to run.

If the coin prices don't go back up I will turn off the 1080's. That'd be a sad day...

EDIT: not considering ASICs at all. Not out of snobism, but because they really make no sense currently unless you're in need of a big door-stopper.

13 cent power s-9 = $0.06 a day
12 cent power s-9 = $0.40 a day
10 cent power s-9 = $0.98 a day
 5 cent power  s-9 =  $2.72 a day
0 cent power   s-9 = $4.46 a day

13 cent power L3+ =  $0.00 a day
12 cent power L3+ = $0.14 a day
10 cent power L3+ = $0.48 a day
 5 cent power  L3+ = $1.33 a day
 0 cent power L3+ =  $2.18 a day

so the game is not gear at the moment it is power.

[dragonmike]

Moderately hopeful rendertoken or other forms of gpu marketplace gains traction this year.

Where are rendertoken currently at? Beta-testing still? Not currently giving out live rendering jobs yet are they?

Personally I'm still running all my rigs (RX 570's, Vegas and 1080's), although the latter are basically at breakeven point. nVidia clearly behind in terms of profitability for the last months.

I've ordered some fpga solutions: 1x BCU1525 from fpga.land, 1x Dwarfminer (yeah yeah I know, but it's only 400 bucks right - no risk no fun) and signed up for an Acorn too. Complexity of running them is above my skill set but I'm confident the community will help in getting them to run.

If the coin prices don't go back up I will turn off the 1080's. That'd be a sad day...

EDIT: not considering ASICs at all. Not out of snobism, but because they really make no sense currently unless you're in need of a big door-stopper.

13 cent power s-9 = $0.06 a day
12 cent power s-9 = $0.40 a day
10 cent power s-9 = $0.98 a day
 5 cent power  s-9 =  $2.72 a day
0 cent power   s-9 = $4.46 a day

13 cent power L3+ =  $0.00 a day
12 cent power L3+ = $0.14 a day
10 cent power L3+ = $0.48 a day
 5 cent power  L3+ = $1.33 a day
 0 cent power L3+ =  $2.18 a day

so the game is not gear at the moment it is power.

I disagree. It is gear as well. Even at zero cent power (which is a fallacy - you have to pay for your solar panels) the ASICs produce painfully little revenue per invested dollar.

Of course when revenue is low you have to cut your variable costs. But it doesn't change the aspect that ASIC hardware currently just doesn't justify the investment.

[JaredKaragen]

I disagree. It is gear as well. Even at zero cent power (which is a fallacy - you have to pay for your solar panels) the ASICs produce painfully little revenue per invested dollar.

Of course when revenue is low you have to cut your variable costs. But it doesn't change the aspect that ASIC hardware currently just doesn't justify the investment.

no offense meant, but I know how to rent space per the foot, and every lot comes with a 50A 220V line.....

So power is very much a possibility when it comes to profitability.

Hardware purchase strategy plays a big part in the equation as well.  ROI is a separate end objective depending on what type of strategy you use.


Another instance is where I live; I pay no extra for the power I use, so I make the best of it.

[philipma1957]

Moderately hopeful rendertoken or other forms of gpu marketplace gains traction this year.

Where are rendertoken currently at? Beta-testing still? Not currently giving out live rendering jobs yet are they?

Personally I'm still running all my rigs (RX 570's, Vegas and 1080's), although the latter are basically at breakeven point. nVidia clearly behind in terms of profitability for the last months.

I've ordered some fpga solutions: 1x BCU1525 from fpga.land, 1x Dwarfminer (yeah yeah I know, but it's only 400 bucks right - no risk no fun) and signed up for an Acorn too. Complexity of running them is above my skill set but I'm confident the community will help in getting them to run.

If the coin prices don't go back up I will turn off the 1080's. That'd be a sad day...

EDIT: not considering ASICs at all. Not out of snobism, but because they really make no sense currently unless you're in need of a big door-stopper.

13 cent power s-9 = $0.06 a day
12 cent power s-9 = $0.40 a day
10 cent power s-9 = $0.98 a day
 5 cent power  s-9 =  $2.72 a day
0 cent power   s-9 = $4.46 a day

13 cent power L3+ =  $0.00 a day
12 cent power L3+ = $0.14 a day
10 cent power L3+ = $0.48 a day
 5 cent power  L3+ = $1.33 a day
 0 cent power L3+ =  $2.18 a day

so the game is not gear at the moment it is power.

I disagree. It is gear as well. Even at zero cent power (which is a fallacy - you have to pay for your solar panels) the ASICs produce painfully little revenue per invested dollar.

Of course when revenue is low you have to cut your variable costs. But it doesn't change the aspect that ASIC hardware currently just doesn't justify the investment.

an L3+ earns 2.28 a day at free power uses 700 watts and can be purchased for about 450 with a psu.  that is a 200 day roi

an s-9 earns 4.46 a day at free power uses 1400 watts and can be purchased for 700 with a psu  that is a 175 day roi

a 1080ti  earns 2 day at free power uses 200 watts and can be purchased for 650 usd you need the rest of the rig  but that is a 325 day roi.

in all the cases above   free power is being used

my solar deals are different.   at the moment I earn

½ of this at zero cost for gear and power  https://www.nicehash.com/miner/146UJM5kgzLVUV23CXCf33KQKHckoX1gx3

½ of this at zero cost for gear and power https://www.nicehash.com/miner/16yLHLoeyuCLPMXkVpC3gyrRYvwRGwjKJr

so they earn 18 /2 = 9 a day  or 270 per month    we can sit and discuss how to figure the power cost  but my deal is ½ the coins

and when all gear sucks  these deals get me through.


http://ckpool.org/users/16yLHLoeyuCLPMXkVpC3gyrRYvwRGwjKJr

I also get ½ the coins from here.  it is more complex to estimate what it would be but it should be 500/2 = 250

so I earn 270 + 250 = 520 on the office deal and the solar deal  all gear sucks  no gear is earning 100 bucks for 10 dollars in 10 cent power.

all gear is easy to buy.

fpga = fully and completely not proven
asics for alts are simply being sold so fast they burn the coin out.

If I do nothing  the 3 t1's and 12 1080ti's will earn 500 for me with zero out of pocket. for the month of june.

and why is that simple I have good power deals.

chasing new fpga's and new asics is something I have zero need to do.

and in fact are a way to lose money  maybe or make money maybe.
[
while the power deal I have certainly earns some profit for me.

So the game is power now not gear.

cheap gear is everywhere.

my limits are not gear I can get 100k worth of gear in 2 or 3 days.
I can not get a 50/50 power deal  like  the 2 I have.

now both guys  did better then me when  coins whaled
but when coins suck I survive .

I only wish I have 20kwatts or extra power with the same deals I have.
I have 11 idle l3+ while I try to start new power deals.

To be more clear about the solar array of buysolar it is just about paid off due to the big year last year.

Maintain  costs are 1 cent a kwatt.  so it will be as close to free power as possible some time in early 2019 for buysolar
but on my end it is always a 50-50 coin split which means buysolar did really well in

NOV DEC JAN FEB

with things tight I do better.

The worst thing I can do is buy gear. I don't have cheap power the new solar is not added so

11 L3+ sit ----------------------- I run 2 in my house solo cause why the fuck not I feel lucky and the 520 I earn pay for it with coin left over.
2 s9 come soon and will sit


now if I had access to more solar power
I could run 11 l3's  earn 25 a day
and 2 s9's earn  9 a day

that is 34 a day or 1020 a month  do my 50-50 deal   510 a month in coin no money out of pocket

and I would be doing 520 + 510 = 1030 a month in coin with no outlay with gear that is paid off

so I am not short gear I am short power deals  11 x 700 = 7700 + 2 x 1400 = 2800   that is 10500 kwatts  in a 50 50 deal

So today for me this is a power game not a gear game.

there is no bleeding edge gear for me to buy from someone I trust and believe in

[QuintLeo]

13 cent power L3+ =  $0.00 a day
12 cent power L3+ = $0.14 a day
10 cent power L3+ = $0.48 a day
 5 cent power  L3+ = $1.33 a day
 0 cent power L3+ =  $2.18 a day

so the game is not gear at the moment it is power.

It's gear as well - Innosilicon A2/KNC Titan/Alcheminer generation gear MIGHT be break-even at 3 cent power, they're losing money everywhere else.

We're pretty much back to where things were at 2 summers ago, except on the current gear generation instead of what was current then.

[jmigdlc99]

To be honest here;  I haven't splurged on buying any new video cards yet....     I am still holding out for 'that new model' that we know is being held back from us.
(remember word of a new model that is basically 4 1060 dies crammed together?)
I am waiting for that.

Until then, I keep my old cards, mining monero at home for the short-long term.  Luckily I can squeeze ~1800w steady out of home without any repercussions.

I have been speculating more than normal;  I have sunk nearly 0.1BTC+ into BUB.   No;  Im not trying to pimp the coin to sell;  I am buying to hodl.  I have been spending pretty much 99% of my crypto earnings over the last ~4-6 months on the coin... I am trying to bring awareness.  Verify my account balance: NTSb7P7yiKvFYuEMbSka6pnJaFb27pd4ni

Anyways, BUB aims to be a Decentralized Exchange.... I think it was the first concept 'coin' to be a 'DE'.  The main difference with bubble, is it plans to keep every aspect as decentralized as possible.    You sort of act like your own exchange in a manner of speaking..  Each user will have their bubble of influence.   Its basically going to be a very versatile crypto exchange with many many layers of features built in....

It can solve a lot of the escrow and other trading issues that would typically involve crypto and a trusted 3rd party.  The project owner has finally been producing some results;  to further the project after completing a bit of school.  Things look good.   I have been quietly excited about this since quite some time ago that I read up on the coin and bought into it when it was worth ~8-10K satoshis.  But back then, I did not hold, I placed sell orders to benefit from the many pumps the coin saw ~2 years back.

I know its only on one exchange;  and its yobit... which its 100% understandable that people are weary of.  In fact, I am still weary of them, and try to not keep assets on there for longer than necessary.... but they have yet to not pay me, or to mis-manage my funds... so fingers crossed....    

And yes I have withdrawn my bub from the exchange (instantly) and their wallet is online and fully functional....  I suggest you guys take a peek (link and address above).   The guy's language is colorful, and he has a lot of energy... and I have believe he is taking this from a sound approach; but more importantly, wants to see this project through to the end.
BUB Thread Here

I also suggest a google search to read through the other earlier threads on BUB.  See how it has transformed, and its initial roadmap before it became focused on the main goal first.

Are you seriously promoting a 2% finished (after 2 years dev time!) "decentralized exchange" project that has an announcement thread title called "BUBBLE || HOLY $H+T! ! ! MickGhee can DApp" ?

I've seen you post sensical stuff here on the forums and I honestly expected more from JaredKaragen. Looking at the Bubble website it also seems like some high school kid's computer class homework. Would appreciate if you could enlighten us more, aside from the amazing "technical details" you mentioned.

[dragonmike]

while the power deal I have certainly earns some profit for me.

So today for me this is a power game not a gear game.

there is no bleeding edge gear for me to buy from someone I trust and believe in

So that all works for you (which is cool). But where I am, with my setup, there's no way on earth I can make any power deal that will pay off in less than 20 years (and chuck knows where I'll be in 20 years' time).

The only gear that *could* make sense to buy currently are FPGAs and - as you basically said - that's still a gamble.

I've changed my power company as the previous one was about to increase electricity costs by something like 40%. The new company now just announced they'd have to increase the kW.h rate as well...  So there's no escape. Only managing as well as I can.

[philipma1957]

while the power deal I have certainly earns some profit for me.

So today for me this is a power game not a gear game.

there is no bleeding edge gear for me to buy from someone I trust and believe in

So that all works for you (which is cool). But where I am, with my setup, there's no way on earth I can make any power deal that will pay off in less than 20 years (and chuck knows where I'll be in 20 years' time).

The only gear that *could* make sense to buy currently are FPGAs and - as you basically said - that's still a gamble.

I've changed my power company as the previous one was about to increase electricity costs by something like 40%. The new company now just announced they'd have to increase the kW.h rate as well...  So there's no escape. Only managing as well as I can.

right  100% agreement on making do .

 I am at a 500 usd certain profit for June 2018

Vs an 11,000 profit in December 2017.

Kast year was a banner year for me and many others.

there is a constant flux in the game 

power is king---gear is king---power is king...gear is king  so on and so forth.

Since I have 11 ldle l3+  and 2 s9i shipping to me today my need for gear = 0

Will I buy the acorn  yeah  I will get 1 or 2 or 3.


Now when I look at solar like the Pay One Price or  pop  idea  buysolar and I are doing  I think of it as all mining gear.

If I make a 1500 watt setup and toss in an s9i  total cost of 1700  for solar + s9i .

 the roi works like this  an s9i  cost earn 4 a day  there is no more cost for the 1700 assuming nothing breaks.

4 bucks a day 425 days and gear = paid off.

if the s9i dies put in another  and the 1700 goes to 2400/4 = 600 days.

since the power part is paid upfront I consider it as part of the sunk cost.

 In theory the panels will last 20 years.
 I may need 1 extra inverter I may need I extra s9i.
It is a risk  as to durability of gear. The s9i and the invertor may need replacement.

To me FPGA's = loser in the long run.  Short term  they can be good.

I know a lot about chasing mining gear since I have mined nonstop since 2012.

You can not make constant profit with mining gear unless you have a power angle = fact. In fact it is the basis of Pow coins  turn power into coins.

[dragonmike]

To me FPGA's = loser in the long run.  Short term  they can be good.

I know a lot about chasing mining gear since I have mined nonstop since 2012.

You can not make constant profit with mining gear unless you have a power angle = fact. In fact it is the basis of Pow coins  turn power into coins.

I betcha some FPGAs that were in use to mine BTC back in the day are still mining (alts) today. The more algos there are out there, the more edge the FPGA's have... if you know how to (re-)program them. Which the majority of people out there does not.

[JaredKaragen]

Are you seriously promoting a 2% finished (after 2 years dev time!) "decentralized exchange" project that has an announcement thread title called "BUBBLE || HOLY $H+T! ! ! MickGhee can DApp" ?

I've seen you post sensical stuff here on the forums and I honestly expected more from JaredKaragen. Looking at the Bubble website it also seems like some high school kid's computer class homework. Would appreciate if you could enlighten us more, aside from the amazing "technical details" you mentioned.

Again, I was not promoting.... as I made clear initially.


Sometimes details of a project catch your eye.

You read past all the bullshit and crap to what really matters.  The framework of the idea.  I have posted comments in that thread and have in turn, read all of the previous thread comments as there have been more than one owner of the project, and multiple threads....    It's not about the coin;  its about the platform.

Imagine not having to use a 3rd party for digital escrow....
Imagine not having to put your funds up on an exchange to trade, then request your funds back.....
Imagine a processing system meant to be able to be used on the most lightweight of electronic devices anywhere on the internet...

These are some of the details that swayed me in.   I choose to invest in his project because I actually see myself using it in the future.  I'm not swayed by fancy signs and good feelings.  I'm swayed by the things that matter.  I could care less if it fluffs me on the side if you get my drift.


I'm trying to get you to see that you yourself can pick something.  Anything.  I don't suggest you buy bub... never have.  In fact, I keep trying to convince people to sell me what they have.


There are more options than simply mining.   I get that now.  This is why I am pulling in some XMR... for portfolio's sake...  I see it's future use and impact now, more than I did when it was in its infancy.
There are other coins I am now investing in that I was set against before....   It's about the long game.   Sometimes you gotta take a risk on the very early long game.   My example being above.  I've been buying/selling bub since it was listed on yobit... now i'm just holding, and i have more of those coins than I ever had....

[R0mi]

In theory the panels will last 20 years.
I may need 1 extra inverter I may need I extra s9i.
It is a risk  as to durability of gear. The s9i and the invertor may need replacement.

To me FPGA's = loser in the long run.  Short term  they can be good.

I know a lot about chasing mining gear since I have mined nonstop since 2012.

You can not make constant profit with mining gear unless you have a power angle = fact. In fact it is the basis of Pow coins  turn power into coins.

What I like about solar is that it is durable.  It is not so difficult to set up and maintain.  True, it is expensive -- however, if used in conjunction with your residence you can take advantage of federal and state tax credits (I was amazed that these got renewed, but I think that is a good thing) -- about 30% off your purchase price.

And it gets you focused on saving power all around your house (LED lights, for example).

If you find solar interesting but have not yet dipped your toe in the water, go to YouTube and look up Missouri Wind and Solar.  Very basic stuff, but explained in a straightforward manner with an eye towards saving money on cooling, heating, and electric bills.  I hadn't looked at these videos in a few years and I went on last night and was pleasantly surprised to see a lot more solar videos with useful information from a number of people.

If mining all goes to sh*t, you'll still be able to get your money's worth from your solar panels.  Anyone that owns a home and plans on staying put for a while really should look into it.  It does not have to be a $50,000 or nothing proposition.  If mining has generally got you bummed out, look into solar -- it will put a smile back on your face once you get it set up.

[philipma1957]

To me FPGA's = loser in the long run.  Short term  they can be good.

I know a lot about chasing mining gear since I have mined nonstop since 2012.

You can not make constant profit with mining gear unless you have a power angle = fact. In fact it is the basis of Pow coins  turn power into coins.

I betcha some FPGAs that were in use to mine BTC back in the day are still mining (alts) today. The more algos there are out there, the more edge the FPGA's have... if you know how to (re-)program them. Which the majority of people out there does not.

it is why they are a loser.

of course a good coder can use them.

but a smart coder will use them and not promote them.

Just think of all the coin a smart coder earned on zec or monero.

Once they are mainstreamed  most of us are only getting crumbs.

[vapourminer]

it is why they are a loser.

of course a good coder can use them.

but a smart coder will use them and not promote them.

Just think of all the coin a smart coder earned on zec or monero.

Once they are mainstreamed  most of us are only getting crumbs.

with a 4% devfee (say on average) for bitstreams releasing new/better bitstreams on a continuing basis could be more lucrative than just keeping it for themselves. especially once large numbers of new, more capable fpgas hit the wild.

after all, claymore and other devfee based miner devs seem to be doing pretty well.