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Author Topic: NobleCoin[NOBL] - 8% PoS | 1Yr+ | MARKETPLACE | PAY | GIFT | CHARITIES/MERCHANTS  (Read 1008927 times)
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Lovethecoins
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July 17, 2015, 02:32:52 AM
 #10841

Quick note on staking

I have noticed we have several bigger holders who have their coins split into transactions of 10 mil coins. First of all thank you for staking, this helps securing network. Secondly - could you please consider splitting those transactions into smaller ones e.g. several transactions of 1 or 2 mil? This way you will be minting much more often hence helping difficulty.

Thanks!

I wish we had a tab that would split blocks automatically Wink

It is easy using coin control:
- Create 10 receiving addresses. Select transaction with 10 million coins as input using Coin Control. Then split 10 million coins into 10 receiving addresses 1 million each using single 'Send coins'.
- Alternatively you can send 10 separate transactions into single receiving address.

Good one eagleflies. I read that and the answer didn't occur to me until I read your post. /feeling like a dope

And that after I had recently put up a step by step HowTo: http://asistec-ti.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137

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Thank u for that

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Lovethecoins
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July 17, 2015, 04:07:02 AM
 #10842

question for all those not staking.. if you aren't trading at these low prices why aren't you staking and gaining interest? We need more connections here

james6546
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July 17, 2015, 07:28:53 AM
 #10843

question for all those not staking.. if you aren't trading at these low prices why aren't you staking and gaining interest? We need more connections here

Got mine staking again, the server I was using broke and only fixed it a couple of days ago. Means I am also back on IRC Smiley
eagleflies
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July 17, 2015, 10:47:58 AM
 #10844

question for all those not staking.. if you aren't trading at these low prices why aren't you staking and gaining interest? We need more connections here

Got mine staking again, the server I was using broke and only fixed it a couple of days ago. Means I am also back on IRC Smiley

Great to have you back! Wink
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July 17, 2015, 01:21:42 PM
 #10845



Ready to go. Any final suggestions?

http://asistec-ti.com/tba/midyearreport2015.htm

eagleflies
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July 17, 2015, 01:26:03 PM
 #10846



Ready to go. Any final suggestions?

http://asistec-ti.com/tba/midyearreport2015.htm

What's the methodology behind 'Estimated Long Term Appreciation Potential'?
eagleflies
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July 17, 2015, 01:59:54 PM
 #10847

---- More on staking ----

1. Analysis (this can be skipped if you do not have much time. Simply go and read 2. Recommendation)

I decided to go deeper into how we are doing in terms of staking. Today I was looking at recent blocks trying to find information what is the usual amount of coins which mints reward to provide some suggestions what could be optimal coins amount to stake. In theory amounts close to 2 000 000 coins are best since they can achieve highest weights. However 2 000 000 may be best in ideal world where all coin holders stake. In practice just portion of coins are being staked on regular basis while the rest may be deposited on an exchange, being staked every several months or simply forgotten.

Number of blocks inspected: 1000

Minimal amount of coins which managed to mint new coins: 469
Maximum amount: 9 264 403
Average amount: 477 159
Median amount: 47 004
Number of people running latest version of wallet which does not split transactions into two: 162 (16.2%).

If we look at the numbers we can see it is pretty easy to mint new coins since this is possible even with transactions lower than 10 000 coins. Important number is median which is about 50 000 coins. We should try to move this number higher. This can be achieved by organizing transactions into sizes in range between 100 000 - 250 000. Also running newest version of client will help since you can group your coins into recommended size range and there will be no need to maintain it on regular basis.


2. Recommendation

1. Group your coins into transactions between 100 000 - 250 000 coins.
2. Use newest wallet version which does not require regular maintenance: http://noble.ilikebtc.com/NobleCoin-Qt-v.2.0.2.zip
3. Try to stake on regular basis e.g. at least several hours per week.

james6546
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July 17, 2015, 02:36:29 PM
 #10848

Cool, thanks MEF.

Mine are split into 2m blocks and are staking 24/7, do you recommend splitting them into smaller amounts?
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July 17, 2015, 03:55:50 PM
Last edit: July 17, 2015, 04:16:32 PM by eagleflies
 #10849

Cool, thanks MEF.

Mine are split into 2m blocks and are staking 24/7, do you recommend splitting them into smaller amounts?

Yep. 100 000 - 250 0000 should work towards increasing difficulty hence improving security.
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July 17, 2015, 06:12:33 PM
 #10850



Ready to go. Any final suggestions?

http://asistec-ti.com/tba/midyearreport2015.htm

What's the methodology behind 'Estimated Long Term Appreciation Potential'?

http://asistec-ti.com/tba/midyear2015methods.htm


With regards to staking, my testing is giving me results that are mirror images of yours, and I'm following your instructions almost to the letter:

I group my coins into transactions of around 2,000,000 coins.
I use the newest wallet version which does not require regular maintenance: http://noble.ilikebtc.com/NobleCoin-Qt-v.2.0.2.zip
I try to stake on regular basis - at least every two or three days for several hours when staking (since I'm using multiple wallets, in practice I average at least one open all the time).

NorrisK
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July 17, 2015, 06:59:06 PM
 #10851



Ready to go. Any final suggestions?

http://asistec-ti.com/tba/midyearreport2015.htm

What's the methodology behind 'Estimated Long Term Appreciation Potential'?

http://asistec-ti.com/tba/midyear2015methods.htm


With regards to staking, my testing is giving me results that are mirror images of yours, and I'm following your instructions almost to the letter:

I group my coins into transactions of around 2,000,000 coins.
I use the newest wallet version which does not require regular maintenance: http://noble.ilikebtc.com/NobleCoin-Qt-v.2.0.2.zip
I try to stake on regular basis - at least every two or three days for several hours when staking (since I'm using multiple wallets, in practice I average at least one open all the time).


The new suggestion is to split the transactions into pieces of 100,000 - 250,000 coins. Maybe you can try that as well?
eagleflies
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July 17, 2015, 08:34:32 PM
 #10852



Ready to go. Any final suggestions?

http://asistec-ti.com/tba/midyearreport2015.htm

What's the methodology behind 'Estimated Long Term Appreciation Potential'?

http://asistec-ti.com/tba/midyear2015methods.htm


With regards to staking, my testing is giving me results that are mirror images of yours, and I'm following your instructions almost to the letter:

I group my coins into transactions of around 2,000,000 coins.
I use the newest wallet version which does not require regular maintenance: http://noble.ilikebtc.com/NobleCoin-Qt-v.2.0.2.zip
I try to stake on regular basis - at least every two or three days for several hours when staking (since I'm using multiple wallets, in practice I average at least one open all the time).


Thank you. My current view is that splitting bigger transactions like 2 000 000 into many  smaller ones around 100 000 - 250 000 coins each should increase competition between staking wallets and difficulty, which is bit low right now, will go up.
Please consider splitting your transactions into smaller chunks when you have some free time on your hands.

This is not urgent and does not have to be done in one go but every small bit helps Wink

I find this topic of research interesting and will share more information when there is more data.
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July 17, 2015, 08:54:57 PM
Last edit: July 18, 2015, 12:39:04 PM by HR
 #10853



Ready to go. Any final suggestions?

http://asistec-ti.com/tba/midyearreport2015.htm

What's the methodology behind 'Estimated Long Term Appreciation Potential'?

http://asistec-ti.com/tba/midyear2015methods.htm


With regards to staking, my testing is giving me results that are mirror images of yours, and I'm following your instructions almost to the letter:

I group my coins into transactions of around 2,000,000 coins.
I use the newest wallet version which does not require regular maintenance: http://noble.ilikebtc.com/NobleCoin-Qt-v.2.0.2.zip
I try to stake on regular basis - at least every two or three days for several hours when staking (since I'm using multiple wallets, in practice I average at least one open all the time).


Thank you. My current view is that splitting bigger transactions like 2 000 000 into many  smaller ones around 100 000 - 250 000 coins each should increase competition between staking wallets and difficulty, which is bit low right now, will go up.
Please consider splitting your transactions into smaller chunks when you have some free time on your hands.

This is not urgent and does not have to be done in one go but every small bit helps Wink

I find this topic of research interesting and will share more information when there is more data.

Will give it a whirl.


Add: When looking at the top 50 in the rich list https://chainz.cryptoid.info/nobl/#!rich , it looks like just under half are minting on a regular basis, and really wasting their coin age in the process since those are 7 million NOBL transaction sizes and up (the largest is minting a 143.5 million transaction size and is probably missing out on 90% of what could be minted if that were broken up into at least 70 smaller transactions).

Those addresses are minting in extremely unfavorable terms and are getting horrible interest because their sizes are too big. All together, they add up to around 575 million NOBL. If we could get those people to at least break up their transactions into 2 million NOBL in size, that in itself would give us 287 or so new competing transactions, and increase holders' returns substantially at the same time.

It's easy to do, and you start seeing tons more NOBL coming into your wallets if you do it.

(First you need to create addresses to send to - it's real easy, "Receive coins" > "New address", but I'll do a real time HowTo tomorrow morning on that. EDIT: THAT'S DONE NOW: How Can I Create New Addresses in the Same Wallet?)

http://asistec-ti.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=134
http://asistec-ti.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=135
http://asistec-ti.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137

If you don't see any of that, you need to enable coin control:

http://asistec-ti.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=133


Lovethecoins
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July 18, 2015, 12:28:11 AM
 #10854



Ready to go. Any final suggestions?

http://asistec-ti.com/tba/midyearreport2015.htm

What's the methodology behind 'Estimated Long Term Appreciation Potential'?

http://asistec-ti.com/tba/midyear2015methods.htm


With regards to staking, my testing is giving me results that are mirror images of yours, and I'm following your instructions almost to the letter:

I group my coins into transactions of around 2,000,000 coins.
I use the newest wallet version which does not require regular maintenance: http://noble.ilikebtc.com/NobleCoin-Qt-v.2.0.2.zip
I try to stake on regular basis - at least every two or three days for several hours when staking (since I'm using multiple wallets, in practice I average at least one open all the time).


Thank you. My current view is that splitting bigger transactions like 2 000 000 into many  smaller ones around 100 000 - 250 000 coins each should increase competition between staking wallets and difficulty, which is bit low right now, will go up.
Please consider splitting your transactions into smaller chunks when you have some free time on your hands.

This is not urgent and does not have to be done in one go but every small bit helps Wink

I find this topic of research interesting and will share more information when there is more data.

Will give it a whirl.


Add: When looking at the top 50 in the rich list https://chainz.cryptoid.info/nobl/#!rich , it looks like just under half are minting on a regular basis, and really wasting their coin age in the process since those are 7 million NOBL transaction sizes and up (the largest is minting a 143.5 million transaction size and is probably missing out on 90% of what could be minted if that were broken up into at least 70 smaller transactions).

Those addresses are minting in extremely unfavorable terms and are getting horrible interest because their sizes are too big. All together, they add up to around 575 million NOBL. If we could get those people to at least break up their transactions into 2 million NOBL in size, that in itself would give us 287 or so new competing transactions, and increase holders' returns substantially at the same time.

It's easy to do, and you start seeing tons more NOBL coming into your wallets if you do it.

(First you need to create addresses to send to - it's real easy, "Receive coins" > "New address", but I'll do a real time HowTo tomorrow morning on that.)

http://asistec-ti.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=134
http://asistec-ti.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=135
http://asistec-ti.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137

If you don't see any of that, you need to enable coin control:

http://asistec-ti.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=133




Almost 10,000 noblecoin wallets out there... Impressive very undervalued coin

eagleflies
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July 18, 2015, 08:55:23 AM
Last edit: July 18, 2015, 09:14:02 AM by eagleflies
 #10855

Add: When looking at the top 50 in the rich list https://chainz.cryptoid.info/nobl/#!rich , it looks like just under half are minting on a regular basis, and really wasting their coin age in the process since those are 7 million NOBL transaction sizes and up (the largest is minting a 143.5 million transaction size and is probably missing out on 90% of what could be minted if that were broken up into at least 70 smaller transactions).

I suspect the biggest single addresses are owned by exchanges. Possibly Cryptsy? Not sure if they want to spend too much time tinkering with all the wallets they have to achieve best minting results.

However you are right they lose most of possible rewards. So the incentive is there. PoS II works the way it was designed Wink

Note to all people keeping their money at exchanges - it is fine if you are actively trading. However if you are not concerned with short term swings and want to keep your noblecoins long term it is better to setup your personal wallet and split your holdings into several transactions of sizes between 100 000 - 250 000 coins. I am happy exchanges stake coins since this helps securing the network, however it is unlikely they are going to do it in really efficient way. Common good is to achieve highest possible difficulty. And this can be achieved when people spend little bit of resources by staking when their computer is on and little bit of time adjusting their transaction sizes.
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July 18, 2015, 11:37:47 AM
 #10856

Add: When looking at the top 50 in the rich list https://chainz.cryptoid.info/nobl/#!rich , it looks like just under half are minting on a regular basis, and really wasting their coin age in the process since those are 7 million NOBL transaction sizes and up (the largest is minting a 143.5 million transaction size and is probably missing out on 90% of what could be minted if that were broken up into at least 70 smaller transactions).

I suspect the biggest single addresses are owned by exchanges. Possibly Cryptsy? Not sure if they want to spend too much time tinkering with all the wallets they have to achieve best minting results.

However you are right they lose most of possible rewards. So the incentive is there. PoS II works the way it was designed Wink

Note to all people keeping their money at exchanges - it is fine if you are actively trading. However if you are not concerned with short term swings and want to keep your noblecoins long term it is better to setup your personal wallet and split your holdings into several transactions of sizes between 100 000 - 250 000 coins. I am happy exchanges stake coins since this helps securing the network, however it is unlikely they are going to do it in really efficient way. Common good is to achieve highest possible difficulty. And this can be achieved when people spend little bit of resources by staking when their computer is on and little bit of time adjusting their transaction sizes.

And if you're getting somewhere close to 8% (with optimized minting), that's another 800,000 NOBL a year for every 10 million you have, just for leaving your wallet open! (But only if that 10 million is broken into smaller amounts! That 10 million as one chunk might actually only get you 400,000 or even less! That's losing 50% or more. And imagine if that "chunk" is 20 or 30 million or more and you're only making 200,000 NOBL a year! That's when the complaints will start streaming in, and also when we start posting links to the original posts on the subject . . . that having been said, it might not be a bad idea to put together a definitive doc on this as soon as we can.)

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July 18, 2015, 02:38:14 PM
 #10857

Add: When looking at the top 50 in the rich list https://chainz.cryptoid.info/nobl/#!rich , it looks like just under half are minting on a regular basis, and really wasting their coin age in the process since those are 7 million NOBL transaction sizes and up (the largest is minting a 143.5 million transaction size and is probably missing out on 90% of what could be minted if that were broken up into at least 70 smaller transactions).

I must admit that I made a mistake with this. I didn't realize that the Top 50 were not address specific, and that they include all the addresses in the associated wallet. I was also forgetting about the ability to split transactions within the same address, and the fact that the previous version of the wallet does that automatically. (The exaggerated example given is nonetheless illustrative in any event, even if it is not confirmed in practice - large NOBL holders in general do seem to be minting in a rational manner . . . even if perhaps some transaction sizes are extremely small, which works counter at the other end of the spectrum, and might warrant merging transactions . . .)

I'm thinking that study of the blockchain itself might be more efficient than individual testing . . .  Undecided

. . . but I'm going to keep up a test diary for the time being anyway.

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July 19, 2015, 01:43:28 AM
 #10858

---- More on staking ----

1. Analysis (this can be skipped if you do not have much time. Simply go and read 2. Recommendation)

I decided to go deeper into how we are doing in terms of staking. Today I was looking at recent blocks trying to find information what is the usual amount of coins which mints reward to provide some suggestions what could be optimal coins amount to stake. In theory amounts close to 2 000 000 coins are best since they can achieve highest weights. However 2 000 000 may be best in ideal world where all coin holders stake. In practice just portion of coins are being staked on regular basis while the rest may be deposited on an exchange, being staked every several months or simply forgotten.

Number of blocks inspected: 1000

Minimal amount of coins which managed to mint new coins: 469
Maximum amount: 9 264 403
Average amount: 477 159
Median amount: 47 004
Number of people running latest version of wallet which does not split transactions into two: 162 (16.2%).

If we look at the numbers we can see it is pretty easy to mint new coins since this is possible even with transactions lower than 10 000 coins. Important number is median which is about 50 000 coins. We should try to move this number higher. This can be achieved by organizing transactions into sizes in range between 100 000 - 250 000. Also running newest version of client will help since you can group your coins into recommended size range and there will be no need to maintain it on regular basis.


2. Recommendation

1. Group your coins into transactions between 100 000 - 250 000 coins.
2. Use newest wallet version which does not require regular maintenance: http://noble.ilikebtc.com/NobleCoin-Qt-v.2.0.2.zip
3. Try to stake on regular basis e.g. at least several hours per week.



Are there any commands or startup switches that automatically re-size blocks, or do you have to do it manually? I'm using the latest ver 2.0.0
eagleflies
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July 20, 2015, 09:53:48 PM
Last edit: July 21, 2015, 11:55:23 AM by eagleflies
 #10859


Are there any commands or startup switches that automatically re-size blocks, or do you have to do it manually? I'm using the latest ver 2.0.0

Manual as of yet.
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July 21, 2015, 09:50:34 PM
 #10860


Are there any commands or startup switches that automatically re-size blocks, or do you have to do it manually? I'm using the latest ver 2.0.0

Manual as of yet.

can you post a small guide on how to do it?

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