Bitcoin Forum
May 23, 2019, 06:11:15 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.18.0 [Torrent] (New!)
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 ... 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 [474] 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 ... 615 »
  Print  
Author Topic: NobleCoin[NOBL] - 8% PoS | 1Yr+ | MARKETPLACE | PAY | GIFT | CHARITIES/MERCHANTS  (Read 1010908 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic.
eagleflies
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 438
Merit: 251


View Profile
January 14, 2015, 09:17:36 AM
 #9461

The people have spoken! Wink

I spent last two days working on a typical PoS wallet for Noble. But since there is overwhelming and almost unanimous support for taking the Magi Coin route I am going to put typical wallet onhold and investigate Magi Coin wallet. Will also reach out to Joe from their team.

Interest rate of 5-10% sounds good. We can also start with 10% and lower it after some time.
1558635075
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1558635075

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1558635075
Reply with quote  #2

1558635075
Report to moderator
1558635075
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1558635075

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1558635075
Reply with quote  #2

1558635075
Report to moderator
GET 25 FREE SPINS AT REGISTRATION
GET 100% BONUS ON FIRST DEPOSIT
PLAY NOW
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1558635075
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1558635075

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1558635075
Reply with quote  #2

1558635075
Report to moderator
1558635075
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1558635075

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1558635075
Reply with quote  #2

1558635075
Report to moderator
1558635075
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1558635075

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1558635075
Reply with quote  #2

1558635075
Report to moderator
fairglu
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1096
Merit: 1025


View Profile WWW
January 14, 2015, 09:50:21 AM
 #9462

The people have spoken! Wink

I spent last two days working on a typical PoS wallet for Noble. But since there is overwhelming and almost unanimous support for taking the Magi Coin route I am going to put typical wallet onhold and investigate Magi Coin wallet. Will also reach out to Joe from their team.

Interest rate of 5-10% sounds good. We can also start with 10% and lower it after some time.

If you have it to the point where it "works" with the same Noble address scheme and a different net (at least the command-line unix daemon), I would not mind using it to test it if the address distribution things is workable or not, as that will likely be the same for a Magi-based code base.

eagleflies
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 438
Merit: 251


View Profile
January 14, 2015, 09:56:57 AM
 #9463

Hi Joe!

Thank you for showing up here and interest in Noblecoin Wink

You're right - it seems almost everybody who expressed their opinion voted in favor of PoS-II. So we are going to take this route. I took a look at your description of PoS-II yesterday. Going to read it slower today and also to compile the wallet and inspect it.

Speaking about interest - simpler is better so #1 is better choice. Interest rate somewhere between 5-10%. We can also start at 10% and go down as time progresses.

I am going to PM to talk more about your wallet and PoS-II.

Cheers!

NOBL community, this is Joe from XMG. I must be frank that I'm actually a fan of NOBL. Smiley I am glad people like PoS-II; the following post has most of the details regarding the PoS-II: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=735170.msg9991269#msg9991269 feel free to let me know if you want to know more or any suggestions.

Specifically I want to talk about the interest; two options:

#1: low interest, APR never greater than 5%. As someone already pointed out, high interest rate may work in a short term but not good in the long run. Decentralization could be the issue for high-interest PoS, because some people tend to stock coin to gain more rewards, and this fact will make those people who can't gain enough coins to stake tend to sell their coins (there is saying PoS coin's price gets dilution), you know what will happen then. While this is not an obvious consequence, but might end up with that in the long run.

#2: dynamic interest depending on the time (I suggest depending on the network weight too); maybe something like the PoW mining using reward reduction scheme, example: APR0 at 1st month, APR0 * r (r < 1) for 2nd month, APR0 * r^2 for 3rd month, and so on until getting to the final level (e.g., < 5%).

I give my vote to option #1. NOBL doesn't need to attract more people, cause it's already notable. It's right that high interest will attract newcomers at the beginning, but we likely see a day they are going with a dumping left behind even big hurt to the coin. Staking should not be the main reason for one holding coins, if they do, they will dump sooner or later. Also, I'd like to put the fairness of coin distribution at the first place.
james6546
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 691
Merit: 500


View Profile
January 14, 2015, 10:05:18 AM
 #9464

We need a graphic designer for a new wallet. Can you help with that? If not do you know someone who is talented and would like to help?

Feel free to answer here or PM myself.

Thanks!

I'm picking up on this a bit to help out. Can we get together a bounty again seeing as we don't have access to much at the moment?

I think there might be some left from the last community fund. I'll add 200k noble to it.

So if anyone fancies designing a new wallet we will try to get a decent bounty together Smiley
NorrisK
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1736
Merit: 1003



View Profile
January 14, 2015, 10:18:22 AM
 #9465

We need a graphic designer for a new wallet. Can you help with that? If not do you know someone who is talented and would like to help?

Feel free to answer here or PM myself.

Thanks!

I'm picking up on this a bit to help out. Can we get together a bounty again seeing as we don't have access to much at the moment?

I think there might be some left from the last community fund. I'll add 200k noble to it.

So if anyone fancies designing a new wallet we will try to get a decent bounty together Smiley

I believe around 300k, ill check it out for the exact amount.
eagleflies
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 438
Merit: 251


View Profile
January 14, 2015, 01:06:07 PM
 #9466

We need a graphic designer for a new wallet. Can you help with that? If not do you know someone who is talented and would like to help?

Feel free to answer here or PM myself.

Thanks!

I'm picking up on this a bit to help out. Can we get together a bounty again seeing as we don't have access to much at the moment?

I think there might be some left from the last community fund. I'll add 200k noble to it.

So if anyone fancies designing a new wallet we will try to get a decent bounty together Smiley

I will add 500k Noble.
eagleflies
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 438
Merit: 251


View Profile
January 14, 2015, 03:06:09 PM
 #9467

why don't we take the black wallet interface? It looks great and has everything in it.

What is Black Wallet??

I have just built Magi Coin's wallet. The good news is it is pretty basic from visual point of view. It is close to core bitcoin-qt wallet. So as the very minimum we will need only to change the loading screen. Apart of that we could (but do not have to) change the icons which are shown in the wallet.
fairglu
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1096
Merit: 1025


View Profile WWW
January 14, 2015, 03:08:36 PM
 #9468

I have just built Magi Coin's wallet. The good news is it is pretty basic from visual point of view. It is close to core bitcoin-qt wallet.

Simpler is probably better at this point: more visuals means more extra work, which means extra delays. Might as well postpone other improvements to the next version!

joelao95
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1176
Merit: 1009


Coin of the Magi!


View Profile
January 14, 2015, 05:09:38 PM
 #9469

I assume the following discussion is based on the community will go with PoS-II.

@eagleflies, I replied to your PM. Also I am posting the same things I am thinking in order to proceed (correct me if these subjects were already covered)

#1 The first thing to decide might be working with which coin source; it could be more compatible by adding PoS into NOBL original code (but will take time); and in contrast it would be easy and quick by work withing magi's code and change it for NOBL.

#2 PoS-II design, like maximum allowed stake days (depending on amount of coins) etc (these mentioned in the magi post); this part somehow needs to figure carefully

(guess you guys already discussed, sorry if I missed the point) is NOBL going to be a pure PoS or PoW/PoS hybrid? will PoS be plugged in by a hard fork?

In a quick way, we can adapt magi code to NOBL and put it on the testnet to test the compatibility and stability. In any case, #2 will need a bit figure with math (determine coin age parameters); if no one else can do it, I can get it done but I'll need some time to work on it.


  Coin MAGI  . XMG   
Coin Source : Trust Verified    [ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ]
  ♓.NΣTWORK-DΣPΣNDΣNT  RΣWARDING SYSTΣM  ※ 
  ANN THREAD MAGIPAY FAQ FORUM
.CPU Mining   PoS-II   PoM   Unique Block Reward 
adam1230
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001



View Profile
January 14, 2015, 05:58:58 PM
 #9470

I assume the following discussion is based on the community will go with PoS-II.

@eagleflies, I replied to your PM. Also I am posting the same things I am thinking in order to proceed (correct me if these subjects were already covered)

#1 The first thing to decide might be working with which coin source; it could be more compatible by adding PoS into NOBL original code (but will take time); and in contrast it would be easy and quick by work withing magi's code and change it for NOBL.

#2 PoS-II design, like maximum allowed stake days (depending on amount of coins) etc (these mentioned in the magi post); this part somehow needs to figure carefully

(guess you guys already discussed, sorry if I missed the point) is NOBL going to be a pure PoS or PoW/PoS hybrid? will PoS be plugged in by a hard fork?

In a quick way, we can adapt magi code to NOBL and put it on the testnet to test the compatibility and stability. In any case, #2 will need a bit figure with math (determine coin age parameters); if no one else can do it, I can get it done but I'll need some time to work on it.

I believe it was going to be a pure POS instead of a hybrid and it was going to be a hard fork.

I also like 10% interest to begin with.

Sounds like a good amount of movement and involvement is taking place with many members now. This is always a good sign. Even with BTC dropping below $200, this technology is going to continue to grow.

│▌
  terraGreen 
▐│
   LinkedIn Reddit Github   
●●●     ISO website     ●●●
   Youtube Quara Medium   
▐││▌
Honeypot
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 420
Merit: 250


View Profile
January 14, 2015, 07:20:08 PM
 #9471

I assume the following discussion is based on the community will go with PoS-II.

@eagleflies, I replied to your PM. Also I am posting the same things I am thinking in order to proceed (correct me if these subjects were already covered)

#1 The first thing to decide might be working with which coin source; it could be more compatible by adding PoS into NOBL original code (but will take time); and in contrast it would be easy and quick by work withing magi's code and change it for NOBL.

#2 PoS-II design, like maximum allowed stake days (depending on amount of coins) etc (these mentioned in the magi post); this part somehow needs to figure carefully

(guess you guys already discussed, sorry if I missed the point) is NOBL going to be a pure PoS or PoW/PoS hybrid? will PoS be plugged in by a hard fork?

In a quick way, we can adapt magi code to NOBL and put it on the testnet to test the compatibility and stability. In any case, #2 will need a bit figure with math (determine coin age parameters); if no one else can do it, I can get it done but I'll need some time to work on it.

I believe it was going to be a pure POS instead of a hybrid and it was going to be a hard fork.

I also like 10% interest to begin with.

Sounds like a good amount of movement and involvement is taking place with many members now. This is always a good sign. Even with BTC dropping below $200, this technology is going to continue to grow.

yes, it was pure PoS. If we should go the quickest way is the question... I think we should do one switch to PoS that make really sense for the future. Not that we have to do two or more forks. "Implementation" took almost half a year so one week more or less...never mind!

Joe and I spoke over the irc and we also had discussions regarding all options that are on the table.

Here are the ideas we have discussed:

- We need some form of better security as soon as possible. Originally we were doing a general pos-wallet swap with palmdetroit involved. I see little reason to deviate from rofo's approach.

- All arrangements no matter general pos, pos 2.0, or pow, pom all have their weaknesses. I am in favor of getting some kind of POS over with and regard 'advantages' of alternatives other than general POS to be issues in the future, not an immediate concern. We need better security, and we need it soon.

- Myeagleflies has already been working on a general POS wallet, so I would not like to side track an option that is already building and preparing to deliver something real, not just as topic of discussion.

- General POS does not preclude any success 'due to it being old' - that part has little to do with the 'lack of innovation' and everything to do with what you DO based on a solidly founded coin with a brand name.



Based on these ideas, I ask that we as a community prioritize on the most imminent issue of better security for nobl and just as importantly remember that we need something soon, not 2 months later. That's 2 months of possibility a multipool can mess with nobl and double spend. Time is against us, and I see little reason to deviate from rofo's approach with palmdetroit.

Let's go with building a general pos wallet for an exchange-based swap as soon as possible. At this point in time, I see little significant advantage in deviating to anything else when that effort is already on going- and I can assure you unless your innovations are groundbreaking enough to be bitcoin 2.0, it's not big enough as some people hope them to be in terms of attracting investors.


General POS wallet, and exchange-based swap. Let's agree and not dally or deviate anymore. We have waited long enough, and it's time we go to POS as we planned Smiley




NorrisK
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1736
Merit: 1003



View Profile
January 14, 2015, 10:14:11 PM
 #9472

I assume the following discussion is based on the community will go with PoS-II.

@eagleflies, I replied to your PM. Also I am posting the same things I am thinking in order to proceed (correct me if these subjects were already covered)

#1 The first thing to decide might be working with which coin source; it could be more compatible by adding PoS into NOBL original code (but will take time); and in contrast it would be easy and quick by work withing magi's code and change it for NOBL.

#2 PoS-II design, like maximum allowed stake days (depending on amount of coins) etc (these mentioned in the magi post); this part somehow needs to figure carefully

(guess you guys already discussed, sorry if I missed the point) is NOBL going to be a pure PoS or PoW/PoS hybrid? will PoS be plugged in by a hard fork?

In a quick way, we can adapt magi code to NOBL and put it on the testnet to test the compatibility and stability. In any case, #2 will need a bit figure with math (determine coin age parameters); if no one else can do it, I can get it done but I'll need some time to work on it.

I believe it was going to be a pure POS instead of a hybrid and it was going to be a hard fork.

I also like 10% interest to begin with.

Sounds like a good amount of movement and involvement is taking place with many members now. This is always a good sign. Even with BTC dropping below $200, this technology is going to continue to grow.

yes, it was pure PoS. If we should go the quickest way is the question... I think we should do one switch to PoS that make really sense for the future. Not that we have to do two or more forks. "Implementation" took almost half a year so one week more or less...never mind!

Joe and I spoke over the irc and we also had discussions regarding all options that are on the table.

Here are the ideas we have discussed:

- We need some form of better security as soon as possible. Originally we were doing a general pos-wallet swap with palmdetroit involved. I see little reason to deviate from rofo's approach.

- All arrangements no matter general pos, pos 2.0, or pow, pom all have their weaknesses. I am in favor of getting some kind of POS over with and regard 'advantages' of alternatives other than general POS to be issues in the future, not an immediate concern. We need better security, and we need it soon.

- Myeagleflies has already been working on a general POS wallet, so I would not like to side track an option that is already building and preparing to deliver something real, not just as topic of discussion.

- General POS does not preclude any success 'due to it being old' - that part has little to do with the 'lack of innovation' and everything to do with what you DO based on a solidly founded coin with a brand name.



Based on these ideas, I ask that we as a community prioritize on the most imminent issue of better security for nobl and just as importantly remember that we need something soon, not 2 months later. That's 2 months of possibility a multipool can mess with nobl and double spend. Time is against us, and I see little reason to deviate from rofo's approach with palmdetroit.

Let's go with building a general pos wallet for an exchange-based swap as soon as possible. At this point in time, I see little significant advantage in deviating to anything else when that effort is already on going- and I can assure you unless your innovations are groundbreaking enough to be bitcoin 2.0, it's not big enough as some people hope them to be in terms of attracting investors.


General POS wallet, and exchange-based swap. Let's agree and not dally or deviate anymore. We have waited long enough, and it's time we go to POS as we planned Smiley






It is time indeed. Also as I mentioned before, we need to decide so we don't waste peoples time by having multiple people work on the same goal.
fairglu
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1096
Merit: 1025


View Profile WWW
January 15, 2015, 07:37:05 AM
 #9473

Based on these ideas, I ask that we as a community prioritize on the most imminent issue of better security for nobl

Keep in mind a "generic" PoS does not automatically equate to security: generic PoS needs many wallets staking 24/7 to have a high enough stake difficulty to be secure, or a very reliable automatic checkpoint service... but then you have a centralized authority, and that leaves the network vulnerable to forks whenever it's down (for whatever reason).

The above is not speculation: more than one PoS chain I host explorers for faces it.

james6546
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 691
Merit: 500


View Profile
January 15, 2015, 08:53:52 AM
 #9474

Based on these ideas, I ask that we as a community prioritize on the most imminent issue of better security for nobl

Keep in mind a "generic" PoS does not automatically equate to security: generic PoS needs many wallets staking 24/7 to have a high enough stake difficulty to be secure, or a very reliable automatic checkpoint service... but then you have a centralized authority, and that leaves the network vulnerable to forks whenever it's down (for whatever reason).

The above is not speculation: more than one PoS chain I host explorers for faces it.

That was kind of my argument for PoS 2.0. I don't know too much about the magi code, but from what Joe has told us it makes it more 51% resistant. But then on the other hand it is less tested and more risky.

I'm not trying to push the community one way or the other, but my vote is for PoS 2.0 if Joe will help out with it.

Can we have a proper vote of what people want, posted on here please?
eagleflies
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 438
Merit: 251


View Profile
January 15, 2015, 04:17:28 PM
 #9475

Yesterday we held an IRC meeting and main point of discussion was either we should choose 'typical PoS' or PoS-II from Magi Coin.
I would like to share with you quick explanation of PoS-II benefits presented by Joe:

"19:55 <Boreiv> can you briefly give me a run down of advantages your pos-ii have over general pos?
19:55 <Boreiv> because until few days ago i have never heard about your coin or your pos-ii
19:55 <joelao95> no problem, I can take an example
19:55 <joelao95> there will be three situation typically
19:55 <joelao95> #1 coins < 100 (number is just example), one will never get PoS rewards
19:55 <joelao95> #noblecoin coins > 100 but < 2000, one will get PoS rewards effectively; offline staking is allowed, but one has to keep wallet online after a few days; if he missed the day of getting PoS rewards, he will miss that forever until he restart PoS
19:55 <joelao95> #noblecoin coins > 2000, getting stake is a bit disadvantage; at some conditions, staking is like the situation with 500 coins in stake
19:55 <joelao95> actually #4, if one has huge coins in stake, he will get nothing at all
19:55 <joelao95> you can see the advantages:
19:55 <joelao95> 1) the network activity will be more than the regular PoS
19:55 <joelao95> 2) one can't stake huge amount of coin to attack the network
19:55 <joelao95> let me know what you think, or you're confused about this
19:55 <joelao95> I am trying to overcome the deficiency of the original PoS, hope we have improved it
"

At this point we consider testing both approaches.
jawitech
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196
Merit: 100


View Profile
January 15, 2015, 04:24:04 PM
 #9476

Just a thought:

What about, like Magi, a M7M PoW/PoS hybrid so Nobl could be merge mined with Magi? Or doesn't that make sense due to the hashpower? More security this way that transactions are processed fast enough.
NorrisK
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1736
Merit: 1003



View Profile
January 15, 2015, 04:42:11 PM
 #9477

Just a thought:

What about, like Magi, a M7M PoW/PoS hybrid so Nobl could be merge mined with Magi? Or doesn't that make sense due to the hashpower? More security this way that transactions are processed fast enough.

Of merge mining on a pow/pos network is considered i would definately join lite/dogecoin for massive hash.
joelao95
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1176
Merit: 1009


Coin of the Magi!


View Profile
January 15, 2015, 07:21:02 PM
 #9478

Addition to eagleflies' post, I'd add in order to avoid misunderstanding, that the number of coins in the example is for stake per transaction; one can stake as many coins as he wishes in his wallet but he must split coins over different transactions. As to magi, if one has concerns, maybe it's better to check it out, running magi client in the mainnet or testnet (for easly mining coins in testnet & staking test); test it under conditions we have specific concerns.

Fully understood the PoS has been talked very much in NOBL community and people here want to see a running PoS ASAP. I'd like to provide any help I can do for, to cooperate with eagleflies for the general PoS, or if you want to take the PoS-II course. It would be easy & quick to just fork magi source code for the test purpose if one wishes. Feel free dropping me a PM if there're any things I can do for.


  Coin MAGI  . XMG   
Coin Source : Trust Verified    [ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ]
  ♓.NΣTWORK-DΣPΣNDΣNT  RΣWARDING SYSTΣM  ※ 
  ANN THREAD MAGIPAY FAQ FORUM
.CPU Mining   PoS-II   PoM   Unique Block Reward 
fairglu
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1096
Merit: 1025


View Profile WWW
January 16, 2015, 08:36:07 AM
 #9479

At this point, all the options are on the table, I suppose all that is needed is a final "go ahead" word to get out of the dilly-dally Smiley

I think the Magi-clone Pos 2.0 is likely the fastest/best that can be achieved at this point.

Can the community (or Rofo as ultimate arbiter) give the word for "go ahead" or "no go"?

There will be a necessary adjustments & testing phase, so even with a "go" word right now, it will just be the beginning, and it may take a couple of weeks for technical stuff, testing & polishing, and then once finalized, there will be extra time to warn all exchanges & pools, ensure they all have the new code and agree on the switch, etc.

An exchange-based switch will introduce further delays, first for negotiations, then to give everyone time to exchange (once the old chain is dead and not mined anymore, it will be stuck, and people won't be able to send funds). A premine distribution script will cut that down to just agreeing on the switch-over height, but will put a very strict deadline on the switch.

sid7039
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 222
Merit: 100


View Profile
January 16, 2015, 09:22:30 AM
 #9480

It's good idea to ask rofo about his opinion!

I personally prefer Magi solution over standard POS but my opinionis not important here.

Best!
Pages: « 1 ... 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 [474] 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 ... 615 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!