[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[HR]

And that's why people only carry a certain amount of cash and why many choose to use credit cards.

So your opinion is to forget about mass adoption all together?

I've spent the best part of the last couple of years discussing the distinction between deflationary and inflationary currencies and their mutually exclusive priorities regarding price stability and store of value with regard to mass adoption.

I've also campaigned for fiat gateways for Dash so that value can be held in Dash and spent in the prevailing currency of the day in order to decouple the conflicting priorities of a deflationary bearer token and a stable trade currency. I've discussed Dash's internal economic model, external economic model w.r.t. other cryptos, fiat, various aspects of the financial system such as units of measure and trade clearing facilities.

See, for example here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1809999.msg18047893#msg18047893

The appropriate case for implementing price stability, identified account holdings, support for national currencies and obfuscation based 'privacy' is the system on the left (variable supply/unit of measure state currency).

The appropriate store of value in that case would be the one on the right (deflationary currency) which is necessarily volatile (otherwise it can't store value), transparent, unbacked and otherwise represents 'bearer-token' properties.

See also:

Community Discussions Stores of Value vs Price Denomination vs Units of Measure
https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/things-to-think-about-as-a-community.13407/

Cash vs Stores of Value vs Credit Money Discussion
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg12638377#msg12638377

Why 'working as anonymous cash' is a pre-requisit to non-anonymous credit derivatives and what Dash is doing different from Bitcoin w.r.t. that
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg12506443#msg12506443

How state institutions are consolidating their definition of non-contractural money (anonymous cash) and comparison with Dash's monetary priorities
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13239732#msg13239732

The distinction between 'untraceable' money and strict definition of 'anonymous' money
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13027764#msg13027764

How you get from anonymous bearer-tokens to named-account base money and how they compliment each other
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1709631.msg17158283#msg17158283

Collateralising Blockchain assets and their 'journey' in and out of anonymity
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1818587.msg18136559#msg18136559

Dash's internal self balancing economic model and how it 'front loads' adoption curve to survive the long lead in period for cryptos
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg12549331#msg12549331

That's a lot, but I was addressing the single issue of anonymity.

Was there something there in your list that deals directly with anonymity and people's fundamental desire to have their store of value (i.e. money) directly and legally identifiable and tied to them, and the negative impact on mass adoption that the absence of such would or would not have?

If you could just post the pertinent link, it would be of great help. TIA

[HR]

Just to add that noone is writing/signing fiat (real) money when buy something or give to someone. So EU will ban the real money too??

.

Before coming on here a pretending to know what your talking about... Read what the new feature set will  be for evolution slatted for later this year. For s guy that spends as much time trolling us, you would think you would be better equipped.  

And for the record there Mr . know it all...  I built up an entire multi-million dollar winery business with mostly cash. With no banking... The old fashioned way.... People like you are brain washed to think you need these other instruments that have record of account and the "man" would have you believe that... But it's rubbish.

Okay, I'll take all your affronts with good humor if you are able to truthfully come back and say that you kept all your money under mattresses and in coffee cans buried in your backyard.

I suspect you can't, and that after reading this you've now understood how badly you MISunderstood the topic of conversation.

In any event, please let me know. You were/would be/are/will always be the exception regardless, and I'm interested in knowing if that exception really exists on the scale you report.

[FiniteByDesign]

Only 4 days left to get them at $50 a piece

(2017) Limited Edition of 100 - 5" DASH Bars:

DASH bars are individually engraved (1 - 100), made of a copper/brass alloy that is antique silver plated and each come unfunded with a numbered hologram for customer placement on the bar. The customer can add a private key if they desire to add funds to the physical piece.

f*D's 5" DASH Bar Specs:
* 192 grams
* 5" diagonal
* 4-3/8" long
* 2-1/4" wide
* 1/4" thick

PRE-ORDER ONLY - To reserve a bar a full payment is required. Shipping is estimated to begin on April 10th.

NOTE: Pricing will go up as we approach April 10th per the below schedule, so early purchasers will get a lower cost per unit.

March 13th - March 21st : $50 each
March 22nd - March 31st : $60 each
April 1st - April 9th : $70 each
April 10th and after : $75 each

Please place order and make payment via the website link http://finitebydesign.net/product/5-dash-bar/
DASH is also accepted, only use this address to avoid scammers: XyAPBj2fBpf7w2zgH3WpPknZhDkBfT1Vyq

Mockup image below:



Hologram:

[toknormal]

Was there something there in your list that deals directly with anonymity and people's fundamental desire to have their store of value (i.e. money) directly and legally identifiable and tied to them

Yes. This one:

How you get from anonymous bearer-tokens to named-account base money and how they compliment each other
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1709631.msg17158283#msg17158283

[iCEBREAKER]

I've discussed Dash's internal economic model, external economic model w.r.t. other cryptos, fiat, various aspects of the financial system such as units of measure and trade clearing facilities.

The appropriate case for implementing price stability, identified account holdings, support for national currencies and obfuscation based 'privacy' is the system on the left (variable supply/unit of measure state currency).

The appropriate store of value in that case would be the one on the right (deflationary currency) which is necessarily volatile (otherwise it can't store value), transparent, unbacked and otherwise represents 'bearer-token' properties.

That's a meal-sized word salad you've tossed up in your latest sojourn to the conceptual buffet.

Too bad it's meaningless, jargon saturated waffle and has nothing to do with the current reality of Dash facts on the ground.

But it does establish you as the most fundamental-averse Dash pumper in the world, so congratulations kind-of.

[rebel69]

i have 2 dash and im trying to find websites to gamble, play gam,es, try to turn my 2 dash into more  but all i know i can do with my dash so far is hold! what can i do with dash? ive spent 2 days looking online trying to find out but ive had no luck...seriously what am i supposed to do once i have dash?

[aleix]

i have 2 dash and im trying to find websites to gamble, play gam,es, try to turn my 2 dash into more  but all i know i can do with my dash so far is hold! what can i do with dash? ive spent 2 days looking online trying to find out but ive had no luck...seriously what am i supposed to do once i have dash?

https://www.dash.org/merchants

[Minotaur26]

i have 2 dash and im trying to find websites to gamble, play gam,es, try to turn my 2 dash into more  but all i know i can do with my dash so far is hold! what can i do with dash? ive spent 2 days looking online trying to find out but ive had no luck...seriously what am i supposed to do once i have dash?

Dashvideocasino.com  I believe is the best one at the moment for gambling.

Directbet.eu is the best sportsbook.

[Johnny00]

i have 2 dash and im trying to find websites to gamble, play gam,es, try to turn my 2 dash into more  but all i know i can do with my dash so far is hold! what can i do with dash? ive spent 2 days looking online trying to find out but ive had no luck...seriously what am i supposed to do once i have dash?

https://www.crypto-games.net, they let you gamble it.

[HR]

Was there something there in your list that deals directly with anonymity and people's fundamental desire to have their store of value (i.e. money) directly and legally identifiable and tied to them

Yes. This one:

How you get from anonymous bearer-tokens to named-account base money and how they compliment each other
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1709631.msg17158283#msg17158283

The thing is, I’m not referring to the philosophical debate about the intrinsic value of money, rather I’m talking about what is mine, regardless of medium.

My house is mine. I’ve got a title of public record that demonstrates such ownership. Nobody can take it away from me without my consent (excepting the government under whose jurisdiction I live, and only in extremely exceptional cases). Nobody can rob my home without everyone knowing about it and it ultimately being restituted. The same goes for anything I own – stocks, bonds, a car, a boat, etc., etc.

Whether or not the faith and trust in the intrinsic value of the legal tender under question is well-founded is another matter completely.

I basically agree with your trust versus trustless dichotomy, and I definitely prefer the latter. That having been said, I prefer the latter with public record status, which is to say that I would prefer every cryptocurrency coin I buy to be legally linked to my person in a public manner, i.e. coin X purchased in Y Txid on coin X’s blockchain is marked as being mine with my name and national identity number. Any coin I spend would also be duly marked as having been transferred to the buyer. In that kind of a cryptocurrency world, I would always be able to ultimately gain restitution for theft or even a mistaken send.

The "bearer token" archetype is incompatible with that, and is precisely the reason why I postulate that mass adoption, other than to have some “spending money" in crypto, won’t happen until buyer and seller information are “time stamped” into each and every transaction. I also suspect that governments will ultimately force this on the cryptocurrency world in order to protect the unwitting, or at least force the noncompliant to post a warning that their money is not protected and that they could lose it at any time, even with the most innocent of mistakes like not having a backup when their disk drive crashes.

What’s more, if I can’t legally demonstrate having paid for something (like something I buy using BTC), how can I legally demonstrate that what I’ve bought is legally mine? I could easily be accused of not having paid and be sued for the amount due – I received it and signed for it as would be shown by legally admissible evidence like shipping records, but I have no proof what-so-ever of ever having paid. Oops.

This is what I am putting up for debate. Is the road towards anonymity a dead end? How many people have bearer token cash, or even gold or silver, hoarded at home? Yes there are a few, but that group takes us down to a very niche market, and not mass adoption.

[bigrcanada1]

Was there something there in your list that deals directly with anonymity and people's fundamental desire to have their store of value (i.e. money) directly and legally identifiable and tied to them

Yes. This one:

How you get from anonymous bearer-tokens to named-account base money and how they compliment each other
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1709631.msg17158283#msg17158283

The thing is, I’m not referring to the philosophical debate about the intrinsic value of money, rather I’m talking about what is mine, regardless of medium.

My house is mine. I’ve got a title of public record that demonstrates such ownership. Nobody can take it away from me without my consent (excepting the government under whose jurisdiction I live, and only in extremely exceptional cases). Nobody can rob my home without everyone knowing about it and it ultimately being restituted. The same goes for anything I own – stocks, bonds, a car, a boat, etc., etc.

Whether or not the faith and trust in the intrinsic value of the legal tender under question is well-founded is another matter completely.

I basically agree with your trust versus trustless dichotomy, and I definitely prefer the latter. That having been said, I prefer the latter with public record status, which is to say that I would prefer every cryptocurrency coin I buy to be legally linked to my person in a public manner, i.e. coin X purchased in Y Txid on coin X’s blockchain is marked as being mine with my name and national identity number. Any coin I spend would also be duly marked as having been transferred to the buyer. In that kind of a cryptocurrency world, I would always be able to ultimately gain restitution for theft or even a mistaken send.

The "bearer token" archetype is incompatible with that, and is precisely the reason why I postulate that mass adoption, other than to have some “spending money" in crypto, won’t happen until buyer and seller information are “time stamped” into each and every transaction. I also suspect that governments will ultimately force this on the cryptocurrency world in order to protect the unwitting, or at least force the noncompliant to post a warning that their money is not protected and that they could lose it at any time, even with the most innocent of mistakes like not having a backup when their disk drive crashes.

What’s more, if I can’t legally demonstrate having paid for something (like something I buy using BTC), how can I legally demonstrate that what I’ve bought is legally mine? I could easily be accused of not having paid and be sued for the amount due – I received it and signed for it as would be shown by legally admissible evidence like shipping records, but I have no proof what-so-ever of ever having paid. Oops.

This is what I am putting up for debate. Is the road towards anonymity a dead end? How many people have bearer token cash, or even gold or silver, hoarded at home? Yes there are a few, but that group takes us down to a very niche market, and not mass adoption.

Mr HR...there are many of us that have been hoarding and amassing gold, silver and currency. It is much more prevalent then you are letting on...This talk of lack of proof of legal ownership makes me think that maybe you are in the employ of the "system" are an advocate for governmental & banking forces. 

Its absolute hog wash that you need instruments that can prove legal ownership of items that can be used as store of value or currency.  This discussion and position that you are taking is exactly what crypto is about...for us as individual to take ownership and privacy of your own personal affairs.

Its interesting that you are advocating for instruments that prove legal ownership....here's a news flash...I own because its in my possession, you want it...then you need to come take it from me over my dead body.   

All these systems of protection of your assests is absolute rubbish and have been set up for nefarious reasons.  My grandparents moved to Canada from the old country with their money sewn to the inside of their coats.  They built very successful businesses and bought their land with cash...like I learned to do the same.  Ohhhh...its not easy...the system fights and raises all sorts of red flags.  But...its my choice and my legal right...and its becoming the choice of many others.  Crypto currencies will foster a whole new generation of individuals that will fight the powers that wish to control us, with scare tactics that You may loose your funds if you don't use the systems they are proposing.

Several years ago...my wife and I liquidated all of our "paper" based assests.  Stocks, bonds, gic's and all our RRSP's and moved everything into gold and silver.  Let me tell you...my bank was not happy...and tried to put every road block and every excuse...JUST LIKE YOU MR. HR are telling us of why we shouldn't do that...but we did it. And guess what...we soon found we weren't alone...our local gold and silver broker soon became a close friend and we discovered we are a part of a very quickly growing group of individuals.  Its not as uncommon as you are trying to let on....maybe you work for the banking system Mr. HR?  You know full well that cryptos main pillars is privacy and Independence of the banking systems tyranny.  That until recent modern times...these legal trinkets you speak of didn't exist.  People were smarter...valued money more because they were in the ultimate control...including its safe keeping.  You may wish for a more docile population that is learning to live in a plastic bubble of protection.

You should evaluate why it is your in this crypto ecosystem. I know why I'm here and why I pick DASH.  Privacy, control and independence of my own financial affairs.

[toknormal]

I would prefer every cryptocurrency coin I buy to be legally linked to my person...I postulate that mass adoption, other than to have some “spending money" in crypto, won’t happen until buyer and seller information are “time stamped” into each and every transaction

You make a very good point.

The thing is, it can't be done justice to by a single monetary tier. In an advanced financial system the trading currency (units which measure the value of the trade) is abstracted away from the collateral that backs it.

If you want to actually use the collateral itself to exchange for the good or service you're buying then that would be barter.

In the case of cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin, they are unbacked electronic assets and so qualify as collateral. When it's deployed in a commercial role though, it does in fact have your name on it - just like your house.

Here's two examples:

1. When you want to trade it for other currencies on a commercial trading platform you enter into a contract with an exchange whereby the contract assigns ownership of a certain quantity of blockchain balance to a designated individual (you). That balance may be fixed or floating depending on the contract (i.e. your balance might be at a designated address or a non-designated one). You then proceed to trade all day long, each one of those trades being registered, tracked and identified as being you. Finally, when you're finished you withdraw funds to the lower monetary tier where owner and possessor are no-longer distinct entities. (i.e. the owner IS the possessor)

2. If you have a Bitcoin backed credit card, you can move funds into a blockchain address that the credit card company designates. They will then credit you with a "tier 2" monetary token that is tradable in trading currency units as opposed to blockchain units. Again - all your trades will be recorded, identified and tracked and if you get stuff stolen in that monetary tier you will have recourse to a third party to restore your balance.

What you can't do is stamp your name on a bearer token - because then it would no longer qualify as such and consequently not qualify as bottom-tier collateral. (Because you need a third party to endorse the ownership). You COULD however enter into a barter trade with a bearer token because the mere fact that you hold it - means that you own it.

Put another way, potatoes don't grow out of the ground with anyone's name on them. Diamonds don't, coal doesn't and gold nuggets don't.

Thats the asset class that cryptocurrencies belong to. Like the potato, the diamond and the nugget that emerge from the earth, a crypto coin emerges from mathematical solution space....with nobody's name on it  

REF: A good reference on monetary tiers in the fiat system is the Bank of England website. Here you can see how one tier backs another and how successive layers become more articulate in terms of their monetary priorities but further away from the collateral that backs them as well as less liquid. The BofE has about 5 tiers, (only 3 of which are in use I think). They are named M0...M4

Base money supply tier:
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/statistics/Pages/iadb/notesiadb/m0.aspx

M4 (Broad money supply) tier"
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/statistics/Pages/iadb/notesiadb/m4.aspx

[AzzAz]

OK. Let's see that 0.1 BTC

[kointrend]

OK. Let's see that 0.1 BTC

Yeah, time is mature for that.

[minero1]

28 percent of all DASH currently in existence was mined in a single day.

there was no relaunch despite the evident issues resulting from the massive instamine that created almost 2 million Darkcoin on the first day.

Looks like the mainstream is noticing DASH and is also going to be asking the tough questions of Evan and co.

Thank goodness Bitcoin Magazine and NASDAQ are exposing the Dash scam before it does any more harm.

But is this the chick who started the whole Dash thing?

To Celebrate $100 Mark, DASH: Detailed Goes Live
 
https://youtu.be/NHxgMuXIItc

[AzzAz]

I can only sigh........ {sigh}

Yeah......sigh...
Dnaelor where are you?

[Revelations86]

This model doesn't work!

PhD in economics right?

I assume that the last time this guy has seen maths was at elementary school

Aside that right now there are 3974 masternodes, not 4100... That makes 120 000 coins difference
No he is not good in math.

Wish i had masternodes "would love to sell them asap" we all know its going to happen the question is when.

When will dash drop a rise like this cant be substained.

Keep dreaming

I started buying DASH from the Darkcoin days and have accumulated enough for Masternodes.   I don't have any plans on selling any in the near future and I don't think many others with masternodes have such plans.   As a matter of fact, I haven't sold any DASH (only gave away some to my friends) since those days, only bought more during the dips.   Contrary to many others, I welcome a drop because thats gives me the opportunity to buy more at  lower price.  Long term (barring any issues that come up), I think this is a strong hold.

[len01]

omg dash price reach 0.2 btc on liqui https://liqui.io/#/exchange/DASH_BTC

[Riseman]

I don't usually write shilly posts. But looking at the ask side it seems like Dash is about to reach its escape velocity. Almost no sells above 0.1.

[arielbit]

Was there something there in your list that deals directly with anonymity and people's fundamental desire to have their store of value (i.e. money) directly and legally identifiable and tied to them

Yes. This one:

How you get from anonymous bearer-tokens to named-account base money and how they compliment each other
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1709631.msg17158283#msg17158283

The thing is, I’m not referring to the philosophical debate about the intrinsic value of money, rather I’m talking about what is mine, regardless of medium.

My house is mine. I’ve got a title of public record that demonstrates such ownership. Nobody can take it away from me without my consent (excepting the government under whose jurisdiction I live, and only in extremely exceptional cases). Nobody can rob my home without everyone knowing about it and it ultimately being restituted. The same goes for anything I own – stocks, bonds, a car, a boat, etc., etc.

Whether or not the faith and trust in the intrinsic value of the legal tender under question is well-founded is another matter completely.

I basically agree with your trust versus trustless dichotomy, and I definitely prefer the latter. That having been said, I prefer the latter with public record status, which is to say that I would prefer every cryptocurrency coin I buy to be legally linked to my person in a public manner, i.e. coin X purchased in Y Txid on coin X’s blockchain is marked as being mine with my name and national identity number. Any coin I spend would also be duly marked as having been transferred to the buyer. In that kind of a cryptocurrency world, I would always be able to ultimately gain restitution for theft or even a mistaken send.

The "bearer token" archetype is incompatible with that, and is precisely the reason why I postulate that mass adoption, other than to have some “spending money" in crypto, won’t happen until buyer and seller information are “time stamped” into each and every transaction. I also suspect that governments will ultimately force this on the cryptocurrency world in order to protect the unwitting, or at least force the noncompliant to post a warning that their money is not protected and that they could lose it at any time, even with the most innocent of mistakes like not having a backup when their disk drive crashes.

What’s more, if I can’t legally demonstrate having paid for something (like something I buy using BTC), how can I legally demonstrate that what I’ve bought is legally mine? I could easily be accused of not having paid and be sued for the amount due – I received it and signed for it as would be shown by legally admissible evidence like shipping records, but I have no proof what-so-ever of ever having paid. Oops.

This is what I am putting up for debate. Is the road towards anonymity a dead end? How many people have bearer token cash, or even gold or silver, hoarded at home? Yes there are a few, but that group takes us down to a very niche market, and not mass adoption.

Mr HR...there are many of us that have been hoarding and amassing gold, silver and currency. It is much more prevalent then you are letting on...This talk of lack of proof of legal ownership makes me think that maybe you are in the employ of the "system" are an advocate for governmental & banking forces. 

Its absolute hog wash that you need instruments that can prove legal ownership of items that can be used as store of value or currency.  This discussion and position that you are taking is exactly what crypto is about...for us as individual to take ownership and privacy of your own personal affairs.

Its interesting that you are advocating for instruments that prove legal ownership....here's a news flash...I own because its in my possession, you want it...then you need to come take it from me over my dead body.   

All these systems of protection of your assests is absolute rubbish and have been set up for nefarious reasons.  My grandparents moved to Canada from the old country with their money sewn to the inside of their coats.  They built very successful businesses and bought their land with cash...like I learned to do the same.  Ohhhh...its not easy...the system fights and raises all sorts of red flags.  But...its my choice and my legal right...and its becoming the choice of many others.  Crypto currencies will foster a whole new generation of individuals that will fight the powers that wish to control us, with scare tactics that You may loose your funds if you don't use the systems they are proposing.

Several years ago...my wife and I liquidated all of our "paper" based assests.  Stocks, bonds, gic's and all our RRSP's and moved everything into gold and silver.  Let me tell you...my bank was not happy...and tried to put every road block and every excuse...JUST LIKE YOU MR. HR are telling us of why we shouldn't do that...but we did it. And guess what...we soon found we weren't alone...our local gold and silver broker soon became a close friend and we discovered we are a part of a very quickly growing group of individuals.  Its not as uncommon as you are trying to let on....maybe you work for the banking system Mr. HR?  You know full well that cryptos main pillars is privacy and Independence of the banking systems tyranny.  That until recent modern times...these legal trinkets you speak of didn't exist.  People were smarter...valued money more because they were in the ultimate control...including its safe keeping.  You may wish for a more docile population that is learning to live in a plastic bubble of protection.

You should evaluate why it is your in this crypto ecosystem. I know why I'm here and why I pick DASH.  Privacy, control and independence of my own financial affairs.

that is a very nice story, I like it except the DASH part..

personally I like it if you will replace evan duffield as DASH leader since he is not coding anymore, DASH is just employing programmers now.. a wine man can do what Evan is doing (as a leader)...the only problem is Evan and his friends instamined a lot of masternodes (voting for Evan)... so that's not gonna happen  LOL