[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[shojayxt]

Yes it could be.  But what happens when people don't realize the profit they thought they would get from running a masternode?  They have close to $10,000 tied up that could be put to use elsewhere with potentially much higher returns.  If the number of masternodes starts to decrease will that be an indicator of long term uncertainty?

 

But everyone running a masternode now knows this is a temporary thing.  It does two things, allows MN holders a little bit of payments while the kinks are worked out, and it allows Evan a chance to see how the non-enforced rules are functioning and their consequences so he can fix any unwanted results.

So even so we're not getting "fair" payment, we're at least getting a chance to get a little bit of coin.

Also, don't forget, the reason the MNs are paid like they are is because if they were all paid a portion, like in a pool, it would create unholy blockchain bloat.  It's just not feasible.  So what we have here is one account paid each block, which is a reasonable amount of info to store.  The rest of the mechanism for voting is done so nobody can cheat.

Here's the thing.  Even if people were to get full payments, will running a masternode still be a good investment?  I could take the same amount of btc that people have tied up in a masternode and likely make 10% in a week based on previous returns.  How many DRK would I get in a week running a masternode?  It would take around 100 DRK for me to see the same kind of returns.  If I don't see an increase in profit then I'm not tying my capital up running a masternode.  And I'm sure that there are masternode operators that feel the same way.  If masternode profits don't meet expectations people will simply shut it down, sell DRK, and make profit somewhere else.

And I know that running a masternode is all about profit from reading the posts in this thread.  Profit profit profit was the selling point and buzz word for the reason to host a masternode.  Better hope that the profit meets expectations or those nodes will be going down right and left.  

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[thelonecrouton]

The only emotional reaction I had was anger directed at a couple shills.  Let me state this fact.  I have not lost a dime on DRK.  Maybe that's because I am one of those "Weak Hands" that you clowns keep referring to.  Well my weak hands have allowed me to sell high and buy back lower over and over again.  I've made quite a biyt of BTC by doing this.  What I was addressing are the people that bought into all this hype from fools like you and are now underwater.  Darkcoin has not delivered what was promised.  It's that simple.  But I never bought into the promises because this is crypto and I don't trust anyone or anything.  That's probably why I have been able to quit my day job.  But you keep all your eggs in one basket and think you're a big man with your piddly amount of DRK.


You are another fool that I will put on my "Do Not Reply" list.

So, on behalf of these nebulous and nameless others, you are running around the thread like a headless chicken, and still refusing to tell me or anyone else what it is that you want other people, as usual I assume, to do for you?

Darkcoin is doing just fine, development progresses, if the current price is giving you palpitations then go do something else for a few weeks, sell up, move on, whatever.

[slapper]

The only emotional reaction I had was anger directed at a couple shills.  Let me state this fact.  I have not lost a dime on DRK.  Maybe that's because I am one of those "Weak Hands" that you clowns keep referring to.  Well my weak hands have allowed me to sell high and buy back lower over and over again.  I've made quite a biyt of BTC by doing this.  What I was addressing are the people that bought into all this hype from fools like you and are now underwater.  Darkcoin has not delivered what was promised.  It's that simple.  But I never bought into the promises because this is crypto and I don't trust anyone or anything.  That's probably why I have been able to quit my day job.  But you keep all your eggs in one basket and think you're a big man with your piddly amount of DRK.


You are another fool that I will put on my "Do Not Reply" list.

So, on behalf of these nebulous and nameless others, you are running around the thread like a headless chicken, and still refusing to tell me or anyone else what it is that you want other people, as usual I assume, to do for you?

Darkcoin is doing just fine, development progresses, if the current price is giving you palpitations then go do something else for a few weeks, sell up, move on, whatever.

Oh man, you just stole the words right out of my mouth. I am still confused about shojayxt's points. What exactly is he trying to say or do here.

Funnily enough it seems he has taken over the role that toknormal used to have in the past.

[trogdorjw73]

Yes it could be.  But what happens when people don't realize the profit they thought they would get from running a masternode?  They have close to $10,000 tied up that could be put to use elsewhere with potentially much higher returns.  If the number of masternodes starts to decrease will that be an indicator of long term uncertainty?

But everyone running a masternode now knows this is a temporary thing.  It does two things, allows MN holders a little bit of payments while the kinks are worked out, and it allows Evan a chance to see how the non-enforced rules are functioning and their consequences so he can fix any unwanted results.

So even so we're not getting "fair" payment, we're at least getting a chance to get a little bit of coin.

Also, don't forget, the reason the MNs are paid like they are is because if they were all paid a portion, like in a pool, it would create unholy blockchain bloat.  It's just not feasible.  So what we have here is one account paid each block, which is a reasonable amount of info to store.  The rest of the mechanism for voting is done so nobody can cheat.

Here's the thing.  Even if people were to get full payments, will running a masternode still be a good investment?  I could take the same amount of btc that people have tied up in a masternode and likely make 10% in a week based on previous returns.  How many DRK would I get in a week running a masternode?  It would take around 100 DRK for me to see the same kind of returns.  If I don't see an increase in profit then I'm not tying my capital up running a masternode.  And I'm sure that there are masternode operators that feel the same way.  If masternode profits don't meet expectations people will simply shut it down, sell DRK, and make profit somewhere else.

And I know that running a masternode is all about profit from reading the posts in this thread.  Profit profit profit was the selling point and buzz word for the reason to host a masternode.  Better hope that the profit meets expectations or those nodes will be going down right and left.

Honestly, I'm a bit surprised there are still 500 or so Masternodes online. 1 DRK per day is nothing -- NOTHING -- for having 1000 DRK tied up. And if you're paying for server fees and such, it's even worse. I don't know who would run a MN that costs probably $10-$20 per day in fees just to earn $10 per day in DRK. Some of them are likely IT professionals using company servers for their own gains; I can't think of any other way to make it truly worthwhile.

[ntrn500]

[Brilliantrocket]

The only emotional reaction I had was anger directed at a couple shills.  Let me state this fact.  I have not lost a dime on DRK.  Maybe that's because I am one of those "Weak Hands" that you clowns keep referring to.  Well my weak hands have allowed me to sell high and buy back lower over and over again.  I've made quite a biyt of BTC by doing this.  What I was addressing are the people that bought into all this hype from fools like you and are now underwater.  Darkcoin has not delivered what was promised.  It's that simple.  But I never bought into the promises because this is crypto and I don't trust anyone or anything.  That's probably why I have been able to quit my day job.  But you keep all your eggs in one basket and think you're a big man with your piddly amount of DRK.


You are another fool that I will put on my "Do Not Reply" list.

That's like preordering a product and then saying that it didn't deliver what was promised 3 months before it's due to be released. What? Do you even read what you write? Evan never promised a full product by a given date. Development is unpredictable, as this is new ground, and unexpected issues can arise.

[illodin]

Here's the thing.  Even if people were to get full payments, will running a masternode still be a good investment?  I could take the same amount of btc that people have tied up in a masternode and likely make 10% in a week based on previous returns.

omg with those skills borrow and steal as much capital as you can and 100x it in a year.

[Sniggly]

Many people bought because they listened to all of that and now they are underwater.  Maybe these people need to sell for various reasons.  This is not typical lemming panic and this thread is full of disparaging remarks towards people that are merely selling their DRK.  It's theirs to do what they want with it.  That doesn't make them lemming or fools.  People that sold their DRK awhile ago were smart.  

I think this is more a case of people seeing btc and many other coins making huge gains while they sit watching DRK go down and down.  They have had enough of the promises, next great release, lack of communication regarding what's going on with their investment, and the list goes on.

And to anyone that wants to attack me for stating the obvious.

I don't care.

Before anyone starts getting defensive and attacking this guy, I don't think there's much to disagree with here personally.

Although many of us are 10 or 20 times up even at this price, there are plenty who are not and he's right that prior to RC3 the thread was full of "it's been tested to death on testnet - will be rock sold, no problems" hype. That gives people some justification for being resentful if they bought in on the basis of that hype and then the opposite happens.

There are plenty of posters on this thread who bear some responsibility for that (probably me included). I'm not saying anyone needs to hang their head in shame, I'm just saying you can't blame people who read all that hype and bought for later getting start raving mad that the price went down to 1 instead of up to 3.

Even though I'm a DRK fan and am happy with the long term prospects, I'm also a software developer and I knew that all that confidence wasn't justified. At the same time, it also makes me not so bothered about the issues that we're going through now. I said this before - they're two independent aspects of the coin that need to be considered separately (technical development and price). The price has taken a nosedive, but technical development is basically following the path that almost every pioneering software project has to tread - that of continious problem solving and design revisions.

Tok when I hire someone to work for me I ask a specific question of each and every applicant.  I ask them, "how do you know you are a good listener?"  I am looking for two things. 1) do they have the ability to use intuition to more effectively communicate and 2) do they properly examine the premise of every statement and word that comes out of another persons mouth. This is good listening.  In my world definitions do not have the right to enter collective bargaining with words in an attempt to change their status or meaning.  Consequently I hear exactly what a person says even if they don't use their pie hole to say it or if their pie hole uses the wrong words. Since most of the time I can't depend on a person to state EXACTLY what they mean I have to be a good listener and examine their answers with intuition, all the while listening to the premise of what they are saying so that I may determine if the communication is effective etc etc etc.  I've read enough of your posts to know I don't have to carry that argument any further.

I was not attacking him personally.  I was attacking his premise.  The premise that the coin isn't doing what it should because someone isn't doing what they should be doing or that someone promised something that didn't go exactly as planned.  DEVELOPMENT STAGE!!!! Every single person in crypto should already have an understanding of what they are getting into...and I know shojayxt KNOWS.  His emotional reaction should drive him to think harder and longer.  Not just simply react emotionally.  I'm down too but I am comfortable with the choice I made and how I made it.  The risk is self evident, inherent, and mine.  Consequently blame has no place on this stage (in the absence of some criminal action.)

The only emotional reaction I had was anger directed at a couple shills.  Let me state this fact.  I have not lost a dime on DRK.  Maybe that's because I am one of those "Weak Hands" that you clowns keep referring to.  Well my weak hands have allowed me to sell high and buy back lower over and over again.  I've made quite a biyt of BTC by doing this.  What I was addressing are the people that bought into all this hype from fools like you and are now underwater.  Darkcoin has not delivered what was promised.  It's that simple.  But I never bought into the promises because this is crypto and I don't trust anyone or anything.  That's probably why I have been able to quit my day job.  But you keep all your eggs in one basket and think you're a big man with your piddly amount of DRK.


You are another fool that I will put on my "Do Not Reply" list.

By all means please do what you say.  I don't have any internal need to 'win' (whatever that means in this case) an argument on a forum.  I don't consider you in that kind of light. But please don't develop a long term habit of being the champion of people that did not appoint you as such.  Don't worry about replying.  It's not necessary.

[eltito]

If masternode profits don't meet expectations people will simply shut it down, sell DRK, and make profit somewhere else.

And thus you have a self-balancing system.  Exactly the way it was intended to be.

[Freckleg]

Yes it could be.  But what happens when people don't realize the profit they thought they would get from running a masternode?  They have close to $10,000 tied up that could be put to use elsewhere with potentially much higher returns.  If the number of masternodes starts to decrease will that be an indicator of long term uncertainty?

Honestly, I'm a bit surprised there are still 500 or so Masternodes online. 1 DRK per day is nothing -- NOTHING -- for having 1000 DRK tied up. And if you're paying for server fees and such, it's even worse. I don't know who would run a MN that costs probably $10-$20 per day in fees just to earn $10 per day in DRK. Some of them are likely IT professionals using company servers for their own gains; I can't think of any other way to make it truly worthwhile.

10-20 usd for a server? You want the gold plated one, don't you? ;-))

[Brilliantrocket]

Here's the thing.  Even if people were to get full payments, will running a masternode still be a good investment?  I could take the same amount of btc that people have tied up in a masternode and likely make 10% in a week based on previous returns.

Except that a masternode is plug and play once you've set it up. I can go relax on a beach somewhere, and collect my earnings. This is far more appealing to most people than trying to learn the ins and outs of day trading.

[toknormal]

If masternode profits don't meet expectations people will simply shut it down, sell DRK, and make profit somewhere else.

There are 2 reasons that that won't happen:

[1] - given that the last man standing at that point will be raking in a fifth of the entire mined supply every day, there's always going to be a hard core of high revenue nodes left

[2] - remember that most holdings are redundant as far as markets go. They are not traded but locked up in cold storage whatever the price. Only a minority portion of any crypto currency is being traded on markets at any given point. So although you have a theoretical point regarding "optimal use of capital", it doesn't necessarily translate into practice because most people do not optimise it.

In fact I myself am a walking example. The reason my DRK is tied up on a masternode and not traded is because I just can't be bothered pouring over my Mac all afternoon and sweating over charts picking my entry and exit points. I've got a few hundred DRK to day trade and that's it. I just took a long term decision about whether I wanted to be in or out of this project as an investor. Once I'd taken that decision, the next logical thing was to get some interest on my long term holdings. Sure I could get more if I sold at 15 and bout at 11, but that would mean me changing lifestyle, goodbye day job, goodbye family etc etc

The idea is that a balance is struck between the interests of the masternode holder and the interest of the network and so far it seems to be working. Hopefully some more masternodes will cash out because now that I don't give a short term sh*t about the price, I wouldn't mind  optimising my revenue  

[luigi1111]

Yes it could be.  But what happens when people don't realize the profit they thought they would get from running a masternode?  They have close to $10,000 tied up that could be put to use elsewhere with potentially much higher returns.  If the number of masternodes starts to decrease will that be an indicator of long term uncertainty?

Honestly, I'm a bit surprised there are still 500 or so Masternodes online. 1 DRK per day is nothing -- NOTHING -- for having 1000 DRK tied up. And if you're paying for server fees and such, it's even worse. I don't know who would run a MN that costs probably $10-$20 per day in fees just to earn $10 per day in DRK. Some of them are likely IT professionals using company servers for their own gains; I can't think of any other way to make it truly worthwhile.

10-20 usd for a server? You want the gold plated one, don't you? ;-))

I think it's the Ferrari edition. I, too, was like "whaaa???"

<$10/month would be much closer to reality.

Edit: even an AWS 32-core C3.8 instance costs less than $10/day.

[Brilliantrocket]

Yes it could be.  But what happens when people don't realize the profit they thought they would get from running a masternode?  They have close to $10,000 tied up that could be put to use elsewhere with potentially much higher returns.  If the number of masternodes starts to decrease will that be an indicator of long term uncertainty?

Honestly, I'm a bit surprised there are still 500 or so Masternodes online. 1 DRK per day is nothing -- NOTHING -- for having 1000 DRK tied up. And if you're paying for server fees and such, it's even worse. I don't know who would run a MN that costs probably $10-$20 per day in fees just to earn $10 per day in DRK. Some of them are likely IT professionals using company servers for their own gains; I can't think of any other way to make it truly worthwhile.

10-20 usd for a server? You want the gold plated one, don't you? ;-))

Yeah, I don't know where this guy gets his server prices, but you can rent a server for under $30 a month. I also remember someone mentioning that they were able to run many MNs on one server by creating virtual machines. So you're looking at maybe $1 per day, almost certainly far less.

[thelonecrouton]

Honestly, I'm a bit surprised there are still 500 or so Masternodes online. 1 DRK per day is nothing -- NOTHING -- for having 1000 DRK tied up. And if you're paying for server fees and such, it's even worse. I don't know who would run a MN that costs probably $10-$20 per day in fees just to earn $10 per day in DRK. Some of them are likely IT professionals using company servers for their own gains; I can't think of any other way to make it truly worthwhile.

Neither do I, that's why we all either pay close to nothing with Amazon or under £5/month with someone else.  

[shfc]

What happened ? Who DUMP DARK?
 

[slapper]

Gentlemen, look at post history of people you are responding. Do not fall into troll traps please.

[luigi1111]

Here's the thing.  Even if people were to get full payments, will running a masternode still be a good investment?  I could take the same amount of btc that people have tied up in a masternode and likely make 10% in a week based on previous returns.

omg with those skills borrow and steal as much capital as you can and 100x it in a year.

Please, let me invest a masternode's worth into you. Heck, I'll give you two, and you only need to trade one for me; the other you can keep for yourself. Plus, you don't even have to make 10% per week; I'll be happy with just 5%! (I know, I know, I'm missing out on almost $1,300,000 only getting 5%, but I'm ok with that)

[ImI]

Yes it could be.  But what happens when people don't realize the profit they thought they would get from running a masternode?  They have close to $10,000 tied up that could be put to use elsewhere with potentially much higher returns.  If the number of masternodes starts to decrease will that be an indicator of long term uncertainty?

But everyone running a masternode now knows this is a temporary thing.  It does two things, allows MN holders a little bit of payments while the kinks are worked out, and it allows Evan a chance to see how the non-enforced rules are functioning and their consequences so he can fix any unwanted results.

So even so we're not getting "fair" payment, we're at least getting a chance to get a little bit of coin.

Also, don't forget, the reason the MNs are paid like they are is because if they were all paid a portion, like in a pool, it would create unholy blockchain bloat.  It's just not feasible.  So what we have here is one account paid each block, which is a reasonable amount of info to store.  The rest of the mechanism for voting is done so nobody can cheat.

Here's the thing.  Even if people were to get full payments, will running a masternode still be a good investment?  I could take the same amount of btc that people have tied up in a masternode and likely make 10% in a week based on previous returns.  How many DRK would I get in a week running a masternode?  It would take around 100 DRK for me to see the same kind of returns.  If I don't see an increase in profit then I'm not tying my capital up running a masternode.  And I'm sure that there are masternode operators that feel the same way.  If masternode profits don't meet expectations people will simply shut it down, sell DRK, and make profit somewhere else.

And I know that running a masternode is all about profit from reading the posts in this thread.  Profit profit profit was the selling point and buzz word for the reason to host a masternode.  Better hope that the profit meets expectations or those nodes will be going down right and left.

Honestly, I'm a bit surprised there are still 500 or so Masternodes online. 1 DRK per day is nothing -- NOTHING -- for having 1000 DRK tied up. And if you're paying for server fees and such, it's even worse. I don't know who would run a MN that costs probably $10-$20 per day in fees just to earn $10 per day in DRK. Some of them are likely IT professionals using company servers for their own gains; I can't think of any other way to make it truly worthwhile.

muhahahaa.......

dumb?

[TanteStefana2]

Here's the thing.  Even if people were to get full payments, will running a masternode still be a good investment?  I could take the same amount of btc that people have tied up in a masternode and likely make 10% in a week based on previous returns.  How many DRK would I get in a week running a masternode?  It would take around 100 DRK for me to see the same kind of returns.  If I don't see an increase in profit then I'm not tying my capital up running a masternode.  And I'm sure that there are masternode operators that feel the same way.  If masternode profits don't meet expectations people will simply shut it down, sell DRK, and make profit somewhere else.

And I know that running a masternode is all about profit from reading the posts in this thread.  Profit profit profit was the selling point and buzz word for the reason to host a masternode.  Better hope that the profit meets expectations or those nodes will be going down right and left.  

Actually, not everyone can "day trade".  I can't.  I tried it and lost, a lot, half the coins I sold. I would never ever have thought at any point going down this last run, that It would continue.  I still don't know.  Knowing my luck, I would have sold at 0.017 and it would climb to 0.1.  I am not taking chances.  Masternodes are a way to increase my holdings without much risk (sans loss of value).  The increase will be moderate in crypto world, but substantial in the regular banking world.  And though profits will go down as more people run MNs, it should remain a pretty good interest rate for some time to come.  As long as we have enough MNs to run DarkSend, all is well.  Besides, I'm hoping there will be other services MNs will provide, and the fees from those services will hopefully make it even more profitable.

So, yah, I know people make lots of money trading, but for people like myself, it's not worth the risk.  I'm also different because I love this project.  Some of us just really love this project.  I won't lie, if I had a pulse on the ups and downs of the market, I'd be buying and selling drk, heck I'd buy and sell other coins to increase my drk holdings.  I have nothing but envy and jealousy for those who can do that!  Trust me, I could use the money-badly, LOL.  But I prove to myself over and over that I have no clue, so I'll play it safe.  This is the right thing for me

In the end any investor needs to be responsible to themselves and make their own decision on how they want to invest.  For some, they can't even look at cryptos, it's too weird for them.  I was hoping my mother would be interested, she loves the stock market, and I thought it might be something we could do together, I was hoping she could tell me how to trade, but she can't wrap her head around it, LOL.  I can't blame her, she's no spring chicken.  Though anyone who lived through the Great Depression, no matter where in the world, ought not to have any faith in fiat, but I guess it's worked for her most of her life, LOL

Ok, enough babble, I gotta go, LOL