[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[afbitcoins]

People here know about the instamine, we know there were 500 coins per block at the launch. We know it is claimed this was a bug. We know there were 33% of the coins mined in the initial few days/weeks. It is good that this is in the open and this may quite rightly put some people off. But going back to this again and again and again and again in circles is just plain annoying.

Yes it was a huge instamine! Monero enthusiasts have very successfully highlighted that.  Has it not occurred to them or can they not accept that most of the people interested in Dash have assimilated that knowledge and are ok with it? I wasn't there in the beginning reaping thousands of Dash yet here I am, happy to be involved, and happy to have a development team who have incentive and talent to continue amazing work with this very promising technology.

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[olcaytu2005]

Ohhh Monero Fudders are here again anyway, I see that many altcoin being dump. DASH, monero, ltc, xdn etc. And more. I don't think that it s because of Bitcoin pumping. Someone is manipulating the market of altcoin . But why?

[AzzAz]

People here know about the instamine, we know there were 500 coins per block at the launch. We know it is claimed this was a bug. We know there were 33% of the coins mined in the initial few days/weeks. It is good that this is in the open and this may quite rightly put some people off. But going back to this again and again and again and again in circles is just plain annoying.

Yes it was a huge instamine! Monero enthusiasts have very successfully highlighted that.  Has it not occurred to them or can they not accept that most of the people interested in Dash have assimilated that knowledge and are ok with it? I wasn't there in the beginning reaping thousands of Dash yet here I am, happy to be involved, and happy to have a development team who have incentive and talent to continue amazing work with this very promising technology.

And we know who our dev team are. And what are they doing.
And that is why we stick with Evan and team.

[DaveyJones]

PoW is a lousy way to distribute the coins to any number than at most 100-1,000 holders. But it is flawed to think that market crashes work to this end either. I don't believe that the dilemma of distributing coins has been adequately solved yet, and I do believe that it is an important task to consider if a coins actually aims for global markets, or even a dominant position in them.

Auroracoin tried to distribute equal amounts to each citizen of Island. Whether that was a success is debatable.

Maybe after the totalitarianism has reached a peak and every human is carrying a tracking ID we can simply send the same amount of coins to everyone in the world. But then when everyone has the same amount, no one has the incentive to work for increasing the value of one's holdings.

Wrong... people will start to trade and thus the distribution will change and you are back to the people that have an incentive to increase the value. Free Markets will exist to the point till people can craft things/food with pure imagination.

[dnaleor]

People here know about the instamine, we know there were 500 coins per block at the launch. We know it is claimed this was a bug. We know there were 33% of the coins mined in the initial few days/weeks. It is good that this is in the open and this may quite rightly put some people off. But going back to this again and again and again and again in circles is just plain annoying.

Yes it was a huge instamine! Monero enthusiasts have very successfully highlighted that.  Has it not occurred to them or can they not accept that most of the people interested in Dash have assimilated that knowledge and are ok with it? I wasn't there in the beginning reaping thousands of Dash yet here I am, happy to be involved, and happy to have a development team who have incentive and talent to continue amazing work with this very promising technology.

People don't know the instamine was PLANNED.
I'm still very surprised to see that people actually believe this instamine was an accident  

I mean, just look at the facts:

2013-12-29: 2 guys from Hawk Financial Group, Evan & Kyle, are asking on the Bitcoin Dev mailing list for "1 or 2 really good C++ programmer that is familiar with the bitcoin internals to help with a for-profit startup". They are planning to build a unique coin that is "not just a clone of the original Bitcoin code" but in stead "a merge-mined altcoin that will provide a very useful service to the whole crypto-coin ecosystem". They claim to have "detailed plans on how to implement it".

2014-01-18 There were some issues at launch, so Evan said he would postpone the launch and would "definitely not" launch it in the next hours. But he did launch it a few hours later.

2014-01-19 Xcoin was launched.
This was the emission in the first 72 hours of the coins existence:

This was the emission of the first 100 days:

At the moment, there are about 6 million DASH in circulation. There would be 84 million Xcoins eventually.
Note that in the first hour, 500k Xcoins were mined. Due to the "quick fix" of the bug, not many people expected to launch a few hours after Evan said he would "definitely not" launch in the next hours.

2014-01-19 Right after the launch, there were problems with the window binaries. Evan clearly was mining right from the start, as he offered 5000 Xcoin as a bounty for compiling the binaries.

2014-01-20 After the emission of almost 2 million coins, Evan said that "now that everything is stable, I'll be posting later about the vision of this project and milestones!". Up until this point, only the "X11 hashing algoritm" was a known feature. According to him, it was "time to move on to actually implementing what I set out to do".

2014-01-22 Evan releases his plans for XCoin. At this point, more than 2 million coins were mined.

---

Later on, some contradictions surfaced:

* The emission schedule changed multiple times. The latest we heard is that the number of coins would be somewhere between 14 million and like 16 million DASH.
* Evan said that this project was just a hobby he started while working on a full time job and coded Xcoin in a weekend.
* Evan claims there were hundreds of miners if not thousands when Xcoin launched. Recent investigation showed that there were 124 IP addreses that were mining at the start. 115 of those addresses where Cloudhosting and Dedicated Servers, 9 of them seem to be private/users.106 of them were at Amazon AWS and Microsoft Azure cloud instances.
 
---

Conclusions:
*Evan isn't acting alone, he had/has a team behind him right from the start. It wasn't a hobby. he had a plan to make a profit.
*Evan had plans for his coin right from the start, but didn't release them until after the instamine
*1.5 million coins were mined in the first 8 hours. Most of these coin ended up in his (and his friends) hands. It's very likely the 500k in the first hour were only mined by him with cloudhosting services.
*He lowered the emission later on, to make his relative share of coins bigger.

Evan was looking for c++ devs for a "for profit startup" at the end of 2013 for the launch of an altcoin.
How can you make a profit by launching an altcoin (and be sure to be able to pay your devs)?
Answer: by premining and/or instamining.
How he did it is pretty easy:
*telling people the release would definitely not be in the next couple of hours and after that do launch it a few hours later
*buggy windows binaries
*a "code error" creating 500k coins in the first hour, >1.5 million in the first 8 hours.

How can this be all an accident and NOT be intentional?

=> DASH was clearly a planned instamine (and thus a scam)

[toknormal]

You are one butthurt kid, dnaleor who appears destined forever to be sniping from the sidelines. It wouldn't surprise me to discover that half the trolls in here are your sockpupets.

You're talking to people who bought Dash well after the launch. We are the ones who are the holders and therefore we have the right to decide whether we were scammed or not - not you.

All I can say is get over yourself and get a life.

[bigrcanada]

Oh my god... Now I've heard it all.  So that's what's up peoples bonnet all this time... That they think because something was instamined it is a scam??? Maybe in dozens of shit coins where developers dumped their coins and disappeared that would be the case.   Don't insult peoples intelligence with equating those types of scenarios as the same.

What complete nonsense!  Crypto-Currency world needs to get out more often and get some fresh air.  This correlation between instamine = scam is rubbish.  No one was scammed... Prove that someone got scammed and who they were or shut it.   Which if course you won't. 

Everyone of you know this coin is not that..... That is why you are here. It's break neck development speed is so concerning and threatening  to you that you must be here. 

And now that we know why your here... It's all. Good.   jealousy!

[salmion]

You are one butthurt kid, dnaleor who appears destined forever to be sniping from the sidelines. It wouldn't surprise me to discover that half the trolls in here are your sockpupets.

You're talking to people who bought Dash well after the launch. We are the ones who are the holders and therefore we have the right to decide whether we were scammed or not - not you.

All I can say is get over yourself and get a life.

Or even started mining well after launch. Knowing full well I was late to the party.

Dash as a project has the legs for longevity and the devs (not just evan ALL of them) and the extended team are committed and going for it.

We've only just begun.

Crying about initial distribution etc is liking crying about not mining bitcoin when it was first launched.. I didn't... so hard cheese. Hasn't stopped me from getting involved in bitcoin. And hasn't stopped me from taking an interest in Dash.

[toknormal]

And now that we know why your here... It's all. Good.   jealousy!

dnaleor's motivations might be explained when we look at who's selling his 'scam-free' privacy coin: (Everybody)



...and who's selling Dash ?  (Nobody    )

[illodin]

Recent investigation showed that there were 124 IP addreses that were mining at the start. 115 of those addresses where Cloudhosting and Dedicated Servers, 9 of them seem to be private/users.106 of them were at Amazon AWS and Microsoft Azure cloud instances.

"Investigation" lol. How can you possibly say that 124 IP list is a comprehensive list of all nodes or miners online at that time? If anything it looks like it's a snapshot of nodes one peer was seeing at one point in time. What a coincidence there are 124 peers in that list you base your "investigation" on when considering the default value for -maxconnections is 125. My miner's IP isn't on that list and I had been mining a good while when that list was posted. And what is a "private user" vs cloud miner? It was very common at that time to mine cpu mineable coins using cloud instances, are you claiming all those Amazon and Azure nodes were Evan's?

*Evan isn't acting alone, he had/has a team behind him right from the start.

Yes he and InternetApe were a team. The most likely distribution between them was 50-50. InternetApe dumped what he had left and took off a year ago or so.

It wasn't a hobby.

If he was at work at the same time, wasn't it a hobby? Perhaps he can provide a proof he was still working for another employer while launching it.

he had a plan to make a profit.

Would it have made you satisfied if his plan was to lose money?

=> DASH is clearly the reason Monero isn't going anywhere.

Disagree.

[bandidorl]

I don´t know if it´s sad or fun to read 25 pages of posts from the weekend in 15 minutes due the excessive trolling and my ignore list. 

[Freckleg]

I don´t know if it´s sad or fun to read 25 pages of posts from the weekend in 15 minutes due the excessive trolling and my ignore list. 

Free bumps! ;-)

Cherish our monero trolls,  at least their community is valuable for at least something...bumping the dash thread

[DrkLvr_]

Instamine bug was there from LTC? instamine now is a feature but still an accident??  DASH people cannot stop lying..

what happen to this coin.. its always a scam just hidden

[AlexGR]

BTC was solomined

BTC was never solomined. There are well known people who mined at or near the very beginning who showed up later with a large amount of coins, plus a number of well known people whose coin holdings are less well known but clearly were also mining. Since there were no exchanges and little to no trading, mining would have been the only way to get them. Those are only the well-known ones, too. There were certainly other unkown people mining who were just more private about it ever since. As you said, satoshi is reported to have mined a million coins, but 2.5 million were mined in the first year, so clearly other people were mining too.

If Satoshi was being attacked by the same people claiming that Evan insta-solo'ed 2 million DRKs, we'd hear the same for Satoshi, don't worry. But for Satoshi "oh, there were others mining", for Evan there weren't. Oh that sneaky bastard Evan, he soloed DRK for days.

LTC was instamined, but as I said only about 1% of the current supply. If you are trying to argue that is in any way similar to a 33% instamine you are either being dishonest or are just very confused. I'm not sure which.

You cannot project a percentage over the current supply, when this current supply includes a shuffled around instamine. The 33% is not static. A lot of the instamined coins changed hands. And the "value" of the "scam" had a price tag on it: The price of the coins back then at 0.000020 to 0.000025 btc per coin, some even cheaper for bulk purchases.

You are incorrect. This bug (described below), increased mining rewards by 5-20x, had nothing to do with LTC, and was indeed put there Evan:

Which was put there because the coin was supposed to have different economic parameters that would incentivize low hash rates. But that wouldn't be a problem if difficulty re-targeting actually worked because it would be impossible to throw 50/100/500 blocks at that rate.

That was entirely new code (LTC didn't and doesn't have a variable block reward based on difficulty), written by Evan, with the bug put there by Evan.

As I said, different economic parameters.

With correct block rewards and the LTC algorithm, you would have had a much smaller instamine, more like LTC.

And then you would still scream "Evan the instamine scammer". Just because.

[bigrcanada]

This crap is retarding both these projects and what's it over? A few feral kids on an ego trip and gaming the system for all they can get out of it, the Monero folks have better things to do with there time, we've better things to do with our time and the mods have better things to do with their time but we keep getting dragged into it.

I'd had a mod in touch yesterday over a comment I'd made about the altcoin section in a trolling/FUD thread in meta and after a bit of bouncing back and forth between mods it was suggested the best thing to do is get in touch with a global mod with a clear and detailed summary. I'm not one for running to the authorities, far from it, it usually takes a hell of a lot for me to even click that "report to moderator" button but I've clicked it more in a couple of months in this section than a couple of years on this forum and seeing the mods side of the mess yesterday was revealing, these kids know the forum rules off by heart and they're gaming them so they're using the rules just as much as anyone wanting them enforced.

The group that appears to be behind them is another story though and a much more sinister one, any time you've got a group of idealistic youths fighting for what they believe in take a good, hard look at who's pulling the strings. I grew up around that shit and know just how easy it is to take that force and direct it, young Muslims running to join ISIS to fight the western devils, skinheads beating up civil rights and anti cap protesters, whole damn revolutions run by puppet masters with contrary objectives to the poor fool puppets who think they're fighting the good fight. Crypto's threatening some people very experienced with subversion, maybe it's not here yet but it will be. [/rant]

Hi Stan... I agree.  I would love to have a discussion on dash talk in a new thread about this very issue. What I've been  observing is there is coordinated Trolling almost in shifts.  New user accounts are Created...to make seem like there are numerous people with the same Troll line. ^^^^^.

It would. Be great if tungfa or someone with great language skills could draft up a small paragraph on this matter addressing the troll tropic... Which someone like myself can bump. Forward.

[AdamWhite]

All the DASH snakes are coming out of their scam dens to defend their scam  

Note to "AlexGR" and other Dashtards: It's crystal clear that the instamine was intentional, no matter how much you (and especially RenegadeMan) huff and puff.

"The biggest mistake intelligent people make is thinking they are more intelligent than everyone else."

Just look at the facts:

Dec 2013: eduffield posts on Bitcoin-Development mailing list looking to hire for his "for-profit startup"

Jan 2014: 1.5 million DASH or roughly 30% of all coins currently in circulation are instamined in 8 hours, allowing eduffield to hire eduffield as Full-time lead developer  

Do you really think anyone with a brain believes this was an accident? Do you think a judge would believe it?

[AlexGR]

=> DASH was clearly a planned instamine (and thus a scam)

For you, or anyone other that claims DASH is a scam, please tell us

1) Who got scammed
2) What was the economic value of the scam
3) Who lost money due to the instamine

The answers are

1) nobody, because the instamine coins were worthless at market rates
2) at most 40something btc. But to be a scam someone must have bought the bags and these bags to lose value. The value never dropped below 0.000025 BTC, but multiplied up to 1000x (0.025).
3) nobody, as the marketcap started with a "worthless" valuation and then steadily climbed.

Compare that to actual scams with ICOs/IPOs, devs going MIA, etc etc, where people actually lose their money.

[bigrcanada]

Its OK Adam... Everyone knows why you are really here.  Your getting paid to troll and your jealous.  

[RenegadeMan]

Adam, answer these questions.

Who was scammed?

How much were they scammed for?

Why have you still not gone to the authorities to report the crime?

[bigrcanada]

This user is a paid troll jealous of this project.