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Author Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency  (Read 9258516 times)
ddink7
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October 09, 2015, 01:09:18 PM



You can't build a system based on price speculation. But sometimes you have no choice.

The issue is one of SLA. If you build a network that can handle 30% of the global payments, and then growth reaches a plateau, then you risk destablising the network as masses of people cash out their nodes. 

Indeed. But the principle of a supporting a currency reserve market needs to be sustained in a way that the market will support.

An investor who puts their money into the Dash reserve market will simply work off an ROI equation that looks like this (in principle):

Gain=[Capital sum invested x Interest] - Number of masternodes required to deploy the full capital value.

What this means is that by lowering the collateral, you increase the cost of deploying a given amount of coins in the reserve market and securing a return on them. Right now I only need to deploy 1 masternode to get a return on 1000 Dash. WIth a 500 collateral I need to deploy 2. That's a PITA for an investor so it becomes less attractive. But if the dollar value doubles then it becomes more attractive again.

I agree completely, that at the present time it's a PITA to double the amount of setup work, double the number of nodes you have to monitor, double the likelihood that one of your nodes will crash or have issues, etc. You're talking double the setup and double the maintenance. At the moment it's not needed nor is it worth it.

I do see a time coming when the opposite is the problem. What if Dash reaches a valuation of $14 billion*? Each masternode would be worth more than a million dollars, and there aren't many people who a) could afford that, or b) would want that much of their net worth tied up in a single investment.

While the earlier poster is right (to an extent) about not basing your network properties on the value of your coin, there comes a time when that is necessary because your coin has become so valuable.

*Look at the valuation of Facebook, Uber, Snapchat, Whatsapp, Oculus, Etsy, Twitter, etc. Most of them haven't even turned a profit. The youngest billionaire in the world (25) is one of the cofounders of Snapchat. You can't tell me that there isn't a possibility, at least, that Dash Evolution won't be more useful than Snapchat!

Dash - Digital Cash
https://www.dash.org/
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October 09, 2015, 01:11:29 PM

Dash Team at Holland Fintech / Amsterdam Presentation
(nearly live / pictures)
http://www.meetup.com/Holland-FinTech-Meetup/events/219713936/
 Wink
Tx dutch0nomad Tx flare


https://dashtalk.org/threads/dash-team-at-holland-fintech-amsterdam-presentation.6362/


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October 09, 2015, 01:12:32 PM


 I so wished I could be there...

.
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October 09, 2015, 01:13:44 PM

Quote

Either way, I think we need to keep pushing hard on the marketing front! I love seeing you get out there talking at conferences and educating, you never know what doors may open from the people you meet on the road! We should also attack this by using a professional marketing / PR firm if possible. As per discussions in dashtalk I think that the core dev team should get their cut from the monthly budget and the ENTIRE remaining amount should be expended for marketing purposes for at least the next 6 months. IMO I think we have more work to do in this space than we do in the creation of Evolution.


I agree that Marketing/PR is very important. The Core Team uses outside resources as well as internal ones. One issue with pushing *everything* to an outside firm is that outsiders often don't understand the tech well enough to write intelligently and accurately about it. Fortunately, we have writers who are experienced with Dash helping the Core Team internally, so that outsiders can polish/distribute.

Dash - Digital Cash
https://www.dash.org/
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October 09, 2015, 01:57:44 PM

I do not see Bitcoin as "The One" and I haven't for a long time. Bitcoin was a brilliant start, and Evan is undoubtedly standing on the shoulders of giants. But Bitcoin has too many problems to allow it to "take over." The *only* advantage that Bitcoin has over Dash is its network effect. I admit that network effects are difficult to overcome, but consider:

1) Bitcoin is too slow to use in person-to-person transactions.
2) Bitcoin's fees are too high for it to be used for micropayments.
3) Bitcoin doesn't scale past 7 TPS.
4) Bitcoin's blockchain is huge and it's unlikely to be pruned due to consensus issues.
5) Bitcoin has a very high level of infighting and it's nearly impossible to achieve consensus. As Tok pointed out earlier, the only consensus in the Bitcoin community is that it should be left alone and never changed, updated, improved, or fixed.
6) Bitcoin nodes are disappearing at an alarming rate because they aren't incentivized.
7) Bitcoin's consensus mechanism is under constant risk of attack. Collusion of just two pools would allow double-spends.
8) Long-standing issues like transaction malleability still have not been cleared up, and there's no sign that Bitcoin developers have any interest in fixing them.
9) Bitcoin's governance model is deeply flawed. Funding comes from centralized sources (Foundation and MIT) and governance is dangerously fragmented between often-hostile devs.
10) Bitcoin is and always will be traceable. People don't want the world knowing the details of their finances, and as more people move into crypto this will become a bigger and bigger issue. "You mean everybody can see how much money I have and where I sent it if they know my address?"
11) Bitcoin devs and maximists have their heads buried in the sand and refuse to accept that Bitcoin might not be the solution for everything. It's analogous to the situation in World War II when Japanese admirals were too scared or proud to report their actual losses, and so their high command kept making decisions based on incorrect information.
12) Centralization and censorship in the community. Theymos has managed to grab ownership of BCT and the subreddit and regularly censors any voices he disagrees with (case-in-point: anyone who talked about Bitcoin-XT).
13) Bitcoin is complicated to use and understand for a neophite. We all remember how long it took us to fully wrap our heads around everything.

Dash already solves many of these problems, and Dash Evolution will solve the rest of them:

1) Dash has InstantX, which allows transactions to be fully confirmed in about four seconds.
2) Dash Evolution apparently has no fees (information from the slide).
3) Dash Evolution will scale to 1500+ TPS.
4) Dash Evolution is likely to use pruning at some point (Evan has spoken about this before and says pruning is definitely possible).
5) Dash enables masternode owners to vote and express their opinions in a binding fashion using the decentralized budgeting system.
6) Dash nodes (masternodes) are incentivized and the number grows daily. The growth will eventually taper, but there is very little chance of numbers declining due to the significant incentivization.
7) Dash Evolution will have a confirmationless wallet using InstantX locks for all transactions. Even if one entity gets 51% or more of the network's hash power, it will be impossible to double-spend.
8) Dash developers regularly incorporate fixes as the problems are discovered. A great example of this was the "dead change" issue that Aswan discovered last year. It was fixed very rapidly.
9) Dash uses Decentralized Governance by Blockchain to enforce good governance and to pay developers directly from the blockchain. It's decentralized and trustless.
10) Dash users have the option of using Darksend to anonymize their transactions, and Dash Evolution will build this anonymity into the protocol itself, making all transactions anonymous by default.
11) Dash regularly incorporates new ideas from the community and from other cryptos, or even from the trolls in our own community. Evan has actually said that many of his best ideas came from the arguments trolls were trying to use against us.
12) This thread is unmoderated, and Dashtalk, while moderated, has no history of censorship.
13) Dash Evolution will be using a decentralized API to make the network trivial to use for newbies (information comes from presentation slide...I don't know how this works yet, but I do know that Evan has previously said that making Dash easy to use was a priority).

Dash - Digital Cash
https://www.dash.org/
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October 09, 2015, 02:30:42 PM

nice post ddink7

Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
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October 09, 2015, 02:44:38 PM

I haven't seen anyone else refer to this specific issue yet, forgive me if I have overlooked a discussion.

The last few times I have fired up my BTC wallet - routine catchup about once a week - it has hogged all the bandwidth of my (admittedly slow) connection - literally knocking many devices offline. For example, all antminer fans slow then stop and the miners start beeping. Once the wallet catches up, bandwidth use returns to normal. The issue is replicable.

If this is widespread (and increasing?), then it should be very good for Dash although of course not so good for BTC.

I'm thinking it is the kind of thing one might not notice with a fast connection. Anyone else seeing a recent major surge in BTC wallet bandwidth use?

 
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October 09, 2015, 03:25:58 PM


1) Bitcoin is too slow to use in person-to-person transactions.
2) Bitcoin's fees are too high for it to be used for micropayments.
3) Bitcoin doesn't scale past 7 TPS.
4) Bitcoin's blockchain is huge and it's unlikely to be pruned due to consensus issues.
5) Bitcoin has a very high level of infighting and it's nearly impossible to achieve consensus. As Tok pointed out earlier, the only consensus in the Bitcoin community is that it should be left alone and never changed, updated, improved, or fixed.
6) Bitcoin nodes are disappearing at an alarming rate because they aren't incentivized.
7) Bitcoin's consensus mechanism is under constant risk of attack. Collusion of just two pools would allow double-spends.
Cool Long-standing issues like transaction malleability still have not been cleared up, and there's no sign that Bitcoin developers have any interest in fixing them.
9) Bitcoin's governance model is deeply flawed. Funding comes from centralized sources (Foundation and MIT) and governance is dangerously fragmented between often-hostile devs.
10) Bitcoin is and always will be traceable. People don't want the world knowing the details of their finances, and as more people move into crypto this will become a bigger and bigger issue. "You mean everybody can see how much money I have and where I sent it if they know my address?"
11) Bitcoin devs and maximists have their heads buried in the sand and refuse to accept that Bitcoin might not be the solution for everything. It's analogous to the situation in World War II when Japanese admirals were too scared or proud to report their actual losses, and so their high command kept making decisions based on incorrect information.
12) Centralization and censorship in the community. Theymos has managed to grab ownership of BCT and the subreddit and regularly censors any voices he disagrees with (case-in-point: anyone who talked about Bitcoin-XT).
13) Bitcoin is complicated to use and understand for a neophite. We all remember how long it took us to fully wrap our heads around everything.

Let me play devils advocate.

1) Zero confirmation transactions are usually fine. I have never even heard a story of someone trying to do a double spend at an in person transaction. Im pretty sure you are more likely to get a gun pulled on you.

3) It could scale past 7 transactions tomorrow if the core devs would pull their heads out.

5) I'm pretty sure that everyone wants to change bitcoin they just cant agree on how. You are right about the infighting and lack of consensus though.

6) Is it really alarming? I know a bunch disappeared recently, but I thought that was most likely because of the recent stress test/attack.

7) True, but those pools would cease to exist immediately after trying this. I suppose it might be worth it for them to do it. A successful double spend on the Gemini hotwallet could be worth it and would be hugely damaging. I think we know who the pool operators are though. They would have to try to pull the we got hacked story and there would definitely be an investigation. I guess we can call this a high damage low probability risk.

Cool I think there is definitely interest in fixing them, but it is true that they have not been fixed though there has certainly been time to do so. This is another consensus/governance issue rather than a lack of interest.

10) There are proposals to make bitcoin more private. It comes back to the consensus and governance issues preventing those proposals from happening.

11) I dont really understand this one. Could you be more specific about what they have their head in the sand about and why they are wrong to ignore it?

13) People dont need to understand the email protocol to use it, and Dash isn't any simpler



Seems like most of the problems could be fixed with better governance.

Proposal:
If the bitcoin community can fix its governance it will succeed, if it cannot it will lose its throne to another crypto.

Perhaps if XT succeeds it can restore the benevolent dictator model?

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October 09, 2015, 03:48:40 PM


Who is that pretty lady?  It's always nice to see more ladies in Crypto Smiley

Another proud lifetime Dash Foundation member Smiley My TanteStefana account was hacked, Beware trading
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October 09, 2015, 04:00:58 PM


Let me play devils advocate.

1) Zero confirmation transactions are usually fine. I have never even heard a story of someone trying to do a double spend at an in person transaction. Im pretty sure you are more likely to get a gun pulled on you.

3) It could scale past 7 transactions tomorrow if the core devs would pull their heads out.

5) I'm pretty sure that everyone wants to change bitcoin they just cant agree on how. You are right about the infighting and lack of consensus though.

6) Is it really alarming? I know a bunch disappeared recently, but I thought that was most likely because of the recent stress test/attack.

7) True, but those pools would cease to exist immediately after trying this. I suppose it might be worth it for them to do it. A successful double spend on the Gemini hotwallet could be worth it and would be hugely damaging. I think we know who the pool operators are though. They would have to try to pull the we got hacked story and there would definitely be an investigation. I guess we can call this a high damage low probability risk.

Cool I think there is definitely interest in fixing them, but it is true that they have not been fixed though there has certainly been time to do so. This is another consensus/governance issue rather than a lack of interest.

10) There are proposals to make bitcoin more private. It comes back to the consensus and governance issues preventing those proposals from happening.

11) I dont really understand this one. Could you be more specific about what they have their head in the sand about and why they are wrong to ignore it?

13) People dont need to understand the email protocol to use it, and Dash isn't any simpler



Seems like most of the problems could be fixed with better governance.

Proposal:
If the bitcoin community can fix its governance it will succeed, if it cannot it will lose its throne to another crypto.

Perhaps if XT succeeds it can restore the benevolent dictator model?



Great points! Before I rebut, let me say that I'm envisioning a mainstream, global financial protocol. Honestly, Bitcoin is pretty decent for the *current* use case. It's generally fast enough, especially since most merchants who accept it are online and can always delay shipping. It doesn't get used a whole lot, so the maximum transactions per second and blocksize aren't really that relevant. The blockchain is still a manageable size so there are enough nodes run by altruists to support the network. There's no anonymity, but most people aren't that interested in digging into your finances, because Bitcoin just isn't used enough for that. Ease-of-use isn't that important either, since only computer and finance nerds are using it.

But if you want to create a paradigm-shift in the financial world, bring analog money into the digital age, and approach a mainstream use-case, then changes are needed. Changes that Dash has brought and that Dash Evolution will continue to bring.

In answer to your counterpoints:

Quote
1) Zero confirmation transactions are usually fine. I have never even heard a story of someone trying to do a double spend at an in person transaction. Im pretty sure you are more likely to get a gun pulled on you.
--That's very true on a use-by-use case. But zoom out and look at the larger picture. If you're looking at the really big numbers needed to make crypto "mainstream"...billions of dollars moved per day...would you trust any system that is less than 100% bulletproof? At least in my opinion, this is about confidence in the protocol rather than whether a merchant can "risk" selling me a pack of toaster.

Quote
3) It could scale past 7 transactions tomorrow if the core devs would pull their heads out.
--True. It could get all the way up to 14 if they doubled the block size. Or 70 if they dectupled it. But that's not really going to scale to global adoption, is it? I'll play devil's advocate here: Bitcoin could theoretically make a change and scale up to 70 TPS. Dash will still be ahead by 1430 TPS once Evolution is released. Dash wins.[/quote]
Quote
5) I'm pretty sure that everyone wants to change bitcoin they just cant agree on how. You are right about the infighting and lack of consensus though.
--That's a distinction without a difference. I want to be able to walk through walls, but I can't figure out how to make that happen. An exaggeration, yes, but the same principle. My problem is physics; Bitcoin's problem is politics. Both appear intractable, or nearly so.
Quote
6) Is it really alarming? I know a bunch disappeared recently, but I thought that was most likely because of the recent stress test/attack.
--Today? No. But when scaling up to a truly global payment system? Yes. How many of the existing nodes do you think could successfully serve up a 1 TB blockchain? 10 TB? 100 TB? The cost to run a Bitcoin node today is small...if Bitcoin was to scale up though, the cost would be astronomical. Who would be willing to pay that cost, other than a very few die-hard do-gooders? And would those few be enough to truly call it "decentralized?"
Quote
7) True, but those pools would cease to exist immediately after trying this. I suppose it might be worth it for them to do it. A successful double spend on the Gemini hotwallet could be worth it and would be hugely damaging. I think we know who the pool operators are though. They would have to try to pull the we got hacked story and there would definitely be an investigation. I guess we can call this a high damage low probability risk.
--I'm less concerned about the pools and more concerned about the currency. Everyone who addresses this topic focuses on game theory and the relative advantage of acting versus not acting. I call B.S. on this approach. Target got hacked. Ashley Madison got hacked. The U.S. government got hacked. Who really believes that it's impossible for a few bitcoin pools to get hacked? The hacker, having nothing to lose, could easily attach the network for "lulz." What about a state- or corporate-actor who doesn't mind losing money if it destroys a competitor? The problem isn't "Joe Bob is going to doublespend $10,000." The problem is "Oh shit, Bitcoin's been broken. Sell your Bitcoin now. It's been attacked once; it could happen again. Bitcoin isn't secure. Sell. Sell. Sell." It's all about confidence. A truly global system must be bulletproof.
Quote
Cool I think there is definitely interest in fixing them, but it is true that they have not been fixed though there has certainly been time to do so. This is another consensus/governance issue rather than a lack of interest.
--Agreed. Yet the problem still remains intractable due to politics.
Quote
10) There are proposals to make bitcoin more private. It comes back to the consensus and governance issues preventing those proposals from happening.
--Agreed. Yet the problem still remains intractable due to politics. Hell, Gavin could port Darksend into Bitcoin tomorrow if he wanted--the code is open source and I'm sure people would be happy to run Bitcoin masternodes--but it isn't really likely to happen. It's not because it is impossible--Dash has proven that it is--it's because nobody will make or adopt the necessary changes to the protocol.
Quote
11) I dont really understand this one. Could you be more specific about what they have their head in the sand about and why they are wrong to ignore it?
--This is a reference to Bitcoin maximalists thinking that there are no good and valid ideas out there other than their own. Peter Todd for instance is very vocal about Dash being useless; Gavin has said that all the energy spent on altcoins is "wasted." When your competition has a brilliant idea, the proper response is to see if you can match it or beat it. The best response the Bitcoin community can muster is "We are bigger than you. We have the network effect on our side. We will bury you."
Quote

13) People dont need to understand the email protocol to use it, and Dash isn't any simpler
--Exactly so! That's a great analogy. No, Dash isn't currently any simpler, but apparently Dash Evolution will be.
Quote

Proposal:
If the bitcoin community can fix its governance it will succeed, if it cannot it will lose its throne to another crypto.
--Sure thing...but good luck. They've been arguing about block size for two years, and malleability has been a known problem for four. It's not that these problems are impossible to solve technically--Dash proves that they aren't. The problem is that the Bitcoin devs and community simply do not innovate for political reasons.

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October 09, 2015, 04:07:25 PM

I do not see Bitcoin as "The One" and I haven't for a long time. Bitcoin was a brilliant start, and Evan is undoubtedly standing on the shoulders of giants. But Bitcoin has too many problems to allow it to "take over." The *only* advantage that Bitcoin has over Dash is its network effect. I admit that network effects are difficult to overcome, but consider:

1) Bitcoin is too slow to use in person-to-person transactions.
2) Bitcoin's fees are too high for it to be used for micropayments.
3) Bitcoin doesn't scale past 7 TPS.
4) Bitcoin's blockchain is huge and it's unlikely to be pruned due to consensus issues.
5) Bitcoin has a very high level of infighting and it's nearly impossible to achieve consensus. As Tok pointed out earlier, the only consensus in the Bitcoin community is that it should be left alone and never changed, updated, improved, or fixed.
6) Bitcoin nodes are disappearing at an alarming rate because they aren't incentivized.
7) Bitcoin's consensus mechanism is under constant risk of attack. Collusion of just two pools would allow double-spends.
Cool Long-standing issues like transaction malleability still have not been cleared up, and there's no sign that Bitcoin developers have any interest in fixing them.
9) Bitcoin's governance model is deeply flawed. Funding comes from centralized sources (Foundation and MIT) and governance is dangerously fragmented between often-hostile devs.
10) Bitcoin is and always will be traceable. People don't want the world knowing the details of their finances, and as more people move into crypto this will become a bigger and bigger issue. "You mean everybody can see how much money I have and where I sent it if they know my address?"
11) Bitcoin devs and maximists have their heads buried in the sand and refuse to accept that Bitcoin might not be the solution for everything. It's analogous to the situation in World War II when Japanese admirals were too scared or proud to report their actual losses, and so their high command kept making decisions based on incorrect information.
12) Centralization and censorship in the community. Theymos has managed to grab ownership of BCT and the subreddit and regularly censors any voices he disagrees with (case-in-point: anyone who talked about Bitcoin-XT).
13) Bitcoin is complicated to use and understand for a neophite. We all remember how long it took us to fully wrap our heads around everything.

Dash already solves many of these problems, and Dash Evolution will solve the rest of them:

1) Dash has InstantX, which allows transactions to be fully confirmed in about four seconds.
2) Dash Evolution apparently has no fees (information from the slide).
3) Dash Evolution will scale to 1500+ TPS.
4) Dash Evolution is likely to use pruning at some point (Evan has spoken about this before and says pruning is definitely possible).
5) Dash enables masternode owners to vote and express their opinions in a binding fashion using the decentralized budgeting system.
6) Dash nodes (masternodes) are incentivized and the number grows daily. The growth will eventually taper, but there is very little chance of numbers declining due to the significant incentivization.
7) Dash Evolution will have a confirmationless wallet using InstantX locks for all transactions. Even if one entity gets 51% or more of the network's hash power, it will be impossible to double-spend.
Cool Dash developers regularly incorporate fixes as the problems are discovered. A great example of this was the "dead change" issue that Aswan discovered last year. It was fixed very rapidly.
9) Dash uses Decentralized Governance by Blockchain to enforce good governance and to pay developers directly from the blockchain. It's decentralized and trustless.
10) Dash users have the option of using Darksend to anonymize their transactions, and Dash Evolution will build this anonymity into the protocol itself, making all transactions anonymous by default.
11) Dash regularly incorporates new ideas from the community and from other cryptos, or even from the trolls in our own community. Evan has actually said that many of his best ideas came from the arguments trolls were trying to use against us.
12) This thread is unmoderated, and Dashtalk, while moderated, has no history of censorship.
13) Dash Evolution will be using a decentralized API to make the network trivial to use for newbies (information comes from presentation slide...I don't know how this works yet, but I do know that Evan has previously said that making Dash easy to use was a priority).

Good points.

Can somebody produce a nice infographic (Dash vs Bitcoin) based on  this type of comparison?

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October 09, 2015, 04:18:39 PM

I'd like to chime in now Smiley

All security is inherited from the mining network, which basically is deterministically setting up the quorum system, in a way that is provable. For example when you use DAPI, it will do something like create a transaction from Xaddr1 to Xaddr2 for 10 DASH. You then get back your command, a result status and all of the signatures from the quorum participants. You as the end user will know what quorum is activated for that node already, so you can tell if they're lying.

In terms of scalability, if we have 3300 masternodes and a quorum size of 10, that means we can handle 330 requests at once. If the average time per request is about 100 ms, that means we can do 3300 requests per second. The estimate is based on the fact that the network is also doing maintenance at all times (propagating blocks, shard updates, syncing clients, etc), so I'm guessing ~50% of a fully utilized network will go to other activities. Therefore we end up with 1650 requests per second.

Also we're going to aim for your average every day user, so we're talking just a few requests per month. So how many users can we support if they use 15 requests per month? 86400*1650*30/15 = 285,120,000. Ok, 285 million, that's pretty good.

What about reducing the collateral to 500 DASH? Now we have 6600 masternodes and can handle 570 million users. Isn't the masternode count going up anyway? Yep. That number should hit about 700M about when we launch. This is why it says 500-1500 tx per second, I guess that should say "requests per second" because it's not really accurate. Also the 700M should be a range also, that's the high end, the low end is 285M for current Dash requirements.

I've done a lot of guesswork to figure out these numbers, we'll see how close I am when we start seeing some serious adoption. Either way the system is built to scale with adoption in a way nothing else can, it should be pretty cool. I figure if we start to see a good deal of adoption and usage, we'll always either ask for more storage, processing power or reduce the collateral to split the network before it becomes an issue . They'll be good problems to have and we'll have lots of solutions available.

Full bump 'cause I can't believe it hasn't been bumped in 5 pages Smiley

I'm not sure that works. But perhaps I'm missing something.

If you half the collateral, it doesn't follow that you double the masternodes.

First, the block reward hasn't changed, so the revenue to run nodes remains the same overall.

Second, going from one MN to two would potentially double the cost to run them - you have to ignore any speculation on price increases, although it would (speculating) potentially go up with real world adoption.

So, one server goes to two servers, but the reward remains the same.

If you introduce a micro fee, that would enable the network to scale with a reduction in collateral requirement.
and
if one server became two servers i would pay 10 USD per month renting costs instead of 5 USD but also the increase in masternodes (from 3300 to 6600) will automatically
force lower MN rewards for everyone, will it not ? 

When the time comes that we need to increase the Masternode network, even the need for a VPS with 4 or 8 X the specs we're using now will not be an issue.  The price would be much higher, thus a $100 a month investment in infrastructure will be nothing.  And prepare yourselves, because Masternodes are going to be used for a lot of things in the future.  It's going to be like Evan has said many times, like running a small company.  There will undoubtedly also be other income streams for Masternodes in the future, eventually overcoming the small block rewards.

So doubling up on VPS or machines isn't going to be a factor for anything except scaling.  Also, at this point, there is no foreseeable need to increase the Masternode count. It's just good to know that not only can we easily scale, we can do it at the drop of a hat.


And finally, because it's awesome:

I must say, I've never even contemplated bitcoin not being "the one", but for the first time Im starting to entertain the idea.

Its high marketcap has ironically lead to an atrophying maintenance paradigm combined with an impoverished solutions pool for tackling future challenges.

The central problem is that there's been a consensus emerging that bitcoin should "not be touched". Scaling, functional diversity, governance and privacy must all be dealt with through external 'boilerplating' because everyone's sh*t scared to adversely impact its marketcap.

But maybe its marketcap is about to be compromised anyway. That consensus could be wrong.

The roadmap that Dash has just unveiled raises the opportunity cost of that consenus by an order of magnitude because we are talking here about very fundamental protocol level inhibitors to adoption which are endemic to Bitcoin, now being addressed in Dash. The reason that's significant is that Dash is a compatible clone which can plug straight into the Bitcoin commercial ecosystem. I wrote a bit a while back about the sociological need for money to be seen to function effectively as cash before it can form a sustainable basis for credit. (In bitcoin, for 'credit' read every type of off-blockchain secondary manifestation from sidechains to ETF's to the Lightning network).

Well the Evolution roadmap puts all those requirements squarely in its sights. It represents an unambigious prescription for cash - not for credit, nor a settlement layer, nor any boiler-plated hybrid. Maximum openness, maximum fungibility (giving rise to maximum anonymity), instant transfer and universal accessibility at the base monetary layer are what characterise the medium known to the general public as 'cash'.



If it reaches a successful implementation, you can forget about trolls because the value won't be speculative anymore. It will be driven by a completely different type of market that's more far more interested in immediate commercial priorities than any squabble-threaded exchange on bitcointalk.

IMO, last night's roadmap staked out a territory that's concerned with commercial adoption, not popularity contests. It also drove a fleet of tanks straight onto the lawn that bitcoin's devs vacated in fear - protocol level specialisation.

Say what you like about the risks, but there comes a point in the risk-reward seesaw when the latter end of it just gets too big to ignore. If Dash pulls off what was on that slide, it will have turned the see-saw into a catapault.




I have, what I think was an advantage.  I started reading up about bitcoin in late December 2013.  Already, there was complaint on how slow things were moving, that Bitcoin was stagnant.  When we saw Evan's proposal in the alt announcement thread, it sounded good to me, so what the heck?  I tried to be there at the launch but failed, LOL, still, something about his apparent ADD endeared him to me.  Yes, that means agreeing to someone that he should launch later and let everyone know when he does.  I doubt he saw the rest of the sentence where the guy said he had to go to sleep.  Anyway, Evan reminded me of myself when I have a bee in my bonnet and have to get it solved.  (had one only last night).  And, as the months passed, I knew he'd be the one!  Satochi's newer, better, bigger replacement Tongue  I was saying things like it's going to be the #1 coin, which sounds so funny now, but I was convinced.  I still am convinced that Dash will be #1, but that I was so convinced back then is ... cute ;P  Frankly it's by far more luck than anything that I'm here Smiley

Another proud lifetime Dash Foundation member Smiley My TanteStefana account was hacked, Beware trading
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October 09, 2015, 04:26:21 PM

Enhanced Dashwhale proposal editor

Good news for DASH proposal owners. We integrated a WYSIWYG Editor, that allows you to fully style your proposal description and add images and videos.

Check out the Screenshot:



https://www.dashwhale.org - masternode monitoring and budget voting

*** Masternode monitoring & budget voting ***

https://www.DashCentral.org (https://www.dashcentral.org)
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October 09, 2015, 04:29:00 PM

...
Quote

Proposal:
If the bitcoin community can fix its governance it will succeed, if it cannot it will lose its throne to another crypto.
--Sure thing...but good luck. They've been arguing about block size for two years, and malleability has been a known problem for four. It's not that these problems are impossible to solve technically--Dash proves that they aren't. The problem is that the Bitcoin devs and community simply do not innovate for political reasons.

I'd add that they also can't afford to make any sudden moves, they're right under the spotlight and even something as trivial as a miss-worded forum post will be plastered all over the headlines. Maybe once a few of the entrenched financial crowd come out with their proprietary "blockchain technology" and make some epic screwups then the spotlight will shift and let Bitcoin take a few risks and advance but for now they're stuck.

I'm really surprised there hasn't been some focus on improving the decision making though, when I first looked at Dash and saw the spork it was a "wow!" moment and then along came the voting and took it to a whole new level, the whole time I'd expected to hear discussions along the same lines from the Bitcoin devs but nada, not a thing or even a hint of anything along the same lines. (maybe I'm missing something there though, I don't keep track of the BIPs}.

That's another great point...Evan has shown that he is quick to react to his mistakes. The "spork" was a reaction to the two failed attempts to hardfork the network when implementing RC3.

You're right about how difficult it is for them to make any sudden moves. Mike Hearn likened it to repairing a train while it is hurdling down the tracks, noting that any mistakes they make could jeopardize billions of dollars worth of investments. He is absolutely right about that.

My prior posts are probably too hard on the Bitcoin devs. They have a difficult job, and I imagine that if Evan just upped and left before fixing the governance model, we probably would have had a difficult time of it too. I still think it was pretty shitty of Satoshi to do that.

Dash has a huge advantage in being second. The second project gets to learn from the successes and failures of the first. The second project can innovate to the extreme, because there's far less investment at risk in the case of failure. In a way, Bitcoin is a victim of it's own success.

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October 09, 2015, 04:32:20 PM

Vid of the presentation @ fintech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=2&v=x7ivPegT1Ds

Privacy matters, use Monero - A true untraceable cryptocurrency
Why Monero matters? http://weuse.cash/2016/03/05/bitcoiners-hedge-your-position/
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October 09, 2015, 04:55:14 PM

Vid of the presentation @ fintech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=2&v=x7ivPegT1Ds

Very fast!  I doubt that even the most technically educated on Bitcoin could follow that, LOL.  It was touching the tips of many icebergs and leaving so much unexplained, but hopefully it will get some of those people to research?

Another proud lifetime Dash Foundation member Smiley My TanteStefana account was hacked, Beware trading
"You'll never reach your destination if you stop to throw stones at every dog that barks."
Sir Winston Churchill  BTC: 12pu5nMDPEyUGu3HTbnUB5zY5RG65EQE5d
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October 09, 2015, 05:43:30 PM

Vid of the presentation @ fintech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=2&v=x7ivPegT1Ds

Very fast!  I doubt that even the most technically educated on Bitcoin could follow that, LOL.  It was touching the tips of many icebergs and leaving so much unexplained, but hopefully it will get some of those people to research?

This meeting was really cool is just a 4 min pitch followed by 6 min Q&A...It was a very sophisticated audience from outside of crypto so that was really good I think we want to continue to present at Fintech events and not only crypto events.
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October 09, 2015, 06:06:12 PM

Vid of the presentation @ fintech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=2&v=x7ivPegT1Ds

Very fast!  I doubt that even the most technically educated on Bitcoin could follow that, LOL.  It was touching the tips of many icebergs and leaving so much unexplained, but hopefully it will get some of those people to research?

This meeting was really cool is just a 4 min pitch followed by 6 min Q&A...It was a very sophisticated audience from outside of crypto so that was really good I think we want to continue to present at Fintech events and not only crypto events.

I absolutely agree, just wish there had been more time!  LOL.  Say, we all know now that you have a gorgeous wife, and since I'm an old lady, I figure I can do the asking, LOL.  How is she on presenting Dash?  You really ought to get her to try.  She's probably absorbed a ton just by being with you, and the rest could be done via script ;O)  She'd get invited to TV shows, she's so pretty!  And being a beautiful lady is a great thing.  A gift.

Another proud lifetime Dash Foundation member Smiley My TanteStefana account was hacked, Beware trading
"You'll never reach your destination if you stop to throw stones at every dog that barks."
Sir Winston Churchill  BTC: 12pu5nMDPEyUGu3HTbnUB5zY5RG65EQE5d
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October 09, 2015, 06:43:19 PM

...  How is she on presenting Dash?
...
Grin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NF5XU-k2Vk

Dash is 27.3 times faster with syncing and updating than Bitcoin and 93.7 times faster than Monero. Bitcoin (v0.11.0) has a Tao ratio 11.2% faster than bitcoin (v0.10.0) release.
Dash (v.0.12.0.49) = Tao sync ratio = 0.15 seconds / hour of update || Dash (v.0.11.2.23) = Tao sync ratio = 0.24 seconds / hour of update. V12 versus V11 speedup = +36.5%
Bitcoin (v.0.11.0) = Tao sync ratio = 4.14 seconds / hour of update || Monero (v.0.41.1)  = Tao sync ratio = 14.2 seconds / hour of update
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October 09, 2015, 08:06:25 PM

Icebreaker is Eduardo de Castro, ousted Hashfast scammer: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381687.0 / http://www.coindesk.com/hashfast-cuts-50-of-staff-denies-bankruptcy-rumors/

He's been posting here for around 8 months asking people to buy Monero instead of Dash.

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