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Author Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency  (Read 8288382 times)
toknormal
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December 26, 2015, 05:24:16 PM


Wow.

Forget bitcoin viagra.
It's bitcoin Niagra instead.

Failed to break resistance. Back to the 300's. Looks like most people are following strict loss maximisation procedure by buying at 460, then selling at 400 then buy back in when it goes back to 440.

Easier on the nerves just to hold a Dash hedge I think. Gained 18% against Bitcoin's 12% loss in the crash.

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December 26, 2015, 06:00:23 PM


Wow.

Forget bitcoin viagra.
It's bitcoin Niagra instead.

Failed to break resistance. Back to the 300's. Looks like most people are following strict loss maximisation procedure by buying at 460, then selling at 400 then buy back in when it goes back to 440.

Easier on the nerves just to hold a Dash hedge I think. Gained 18% against Bitcoin's 12% loss in the crash.


So if btc drop till 350 or something...then DASH go up?
toknormal
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December 26, 2015, 06:05:26 PM


So if btc drop till 350 or something...then DASH go up?

The money's got to go somewhere.

It won't all stay in fiat.
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December 26, 2015, 07:20:45 PM

Geepers, sometimes I think somebody sneezed and everyone just drops their bitcoin due to being startled, LOL.  Just when you think volatility has calmed down, these stupid things happen. 

Another proud lifetime Dash Foundation member Smiley My TanteStefana account was hacked, Beware trading
"You'll never reach your destination if you stop to throw stones at every dog that barks."
Sir Winston Churchill  BTC: 12pu5nMDPEyUGu3HTbnUB5zY5RG65EQE5d
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December 26, 2015, 07:43:23 PM

Geepers, sometimes I think somebody sneezed and everyone just drops their bitcoin due to being startled, LOL.  Just when you think volatility has calmed down, these stupid things happen. 
Smart and big btc holders know what to do to get more btc Wink
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December 26, 2015, 07:54:42 PM

Geepers, sometimes I think somebody sneezed and everyone just drops their bitcoin due to being startled, LOL.  Just when you think volatility has calmed down, these stupid things happen. 
Smart and big btc holders know what to do to get more btc Wink

More fiat, I'd say.
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December 27, 2015, 12:04:51 AM

WackyD, just ignore he's been crying here because he thinks the coins he is bagging is losing ground because of Dash innovations. Just look at Ariel he is the 2nd top loser on the scammy Monerodice website if he can gamble with 11k think how much he has?  Tongue

wow, what a gossip you have there.. since you can't tie me up with monero you would just make up stories now? I've never used that site..but since you are there - you are the gambler here and you hold monero for using that site...you are a hypocrite haha
toknormal
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December 27, 2015, 01:00:38 AM


Meanwhile, back at the metal money ranch they're having a few problems with counterfeiting.

How secure does InstantX have to be to improve on the UK Royal Mint ?

(a) - Beat a 3.5% counterfeting rate  Wink
(b) - Qualify as "cash" under the new ECB definition by enabling account-to-account clearance of funds in around 5-20 seconds
(c) - Not require re-tooling of thousands of physical metal vending machines











...so no settlement layer. Only realtime, account-to-account payments can qualify as an electronic equivalent of cash moving forward.

GMaxwell & Co's super-imposition of a legacy fiat style clearing model on top of a cryptocurrency blockchain didn't chime with Satoshi and now it doesn't even chime with the European Central Bank   Wink
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December 27, 2015, 01:27:29 AM

LOL ^^ good one Tok, only I think vending machines will need a rpi or something to accept Dash, so that does qualify as re-tooling, but hopefully only one more time Smiley

Another proud lifetime Dash Foundation member Smiley My TanteStefana account was hacked, Beware trading
"You'll never reach your destination if you stop to throw stones at every dog that barks."
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December 27, 2015, 01:43:37 AM

That's the new pound coin? That thistle might make the first batch collectors items Wink And the shamrock... hmmm :/ Bit lame though, kind of like a euro coin they couldn't be arsed finishing off properly, at least the 50p coin has a bit of trivia in its shape (the distance between the top and bottom points stays the same as you roll it).

Curious about the trolls methods? http://pastebin.com/irj4Fyd5
Manipulation of public discussion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bYAQ-ZZtEU
toknormal
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December 27, 2015, 02:55:38 AM


Trolls on Christmas break. Better ad-lib for them for a while.
toknormal
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December 27, 2015, 02:55:53 AM


didn't chime with Satoshi and now it doesn't even chime with the European Central Bank   Wink

Nobody cares about your irrelevant central planning anecdotes......This thread is about Scamology. Please stay on topic.

A bitcoin sidechain that cleared in 2 seconds is more akin to metal cash than your premined ponzi since there is a direct analogue. Physical cash is pegged to the value of its credit equivalent and they are mutually interchangeable just as the sidechain coin would be with bitcoin.

Please desist from attempting to pass off your dashtard warped logic and "bamboo" Evolusham vaporware as a ponzy rebrand of fishy guvmetal.



#R3KT

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toknormal
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December 27, 2015, 02:56:13 AM

Quote from: toknormal
A bitcoin sidechain that cleared in 2 seconds is more akin to metal cash than your premined ponzi since there is a direct analogue. Physical cash is pegged to the value of its credit equivalent and they are mutually interchangeable just as the sidechain coin would be with bitcoin.

Such a sidechain transaction would cause no movement in bitcoin blockchain addresses - only a value transfer denominated in bitcoin. If you think that qualifies as "cash" then you're not only deluded but at odds with all emerging definitions, "central planning" originated or not.

Implementing a cash-equivalent in a sidechain is a backward step from the ideals of cryptographic money, not a forward one. It's moving from a Satoshi model back to a fiat one instead of the other way around. In that sense a sidechain is no different from a payment channel in that it's just another piece of superstructure who's only reason for existence is to prop-up an unfinished and inadequate implementation of a wholly adequate theoretical monetary model.

By all observable accounts you already appear to agree:

Quote
As with sidechains, I will by default fight this feature.
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December 27, 2015, 03:02:08 AM

I was browsing reddit when I stumbled across a really nice post about all of the issues with scaling Bitcoin. It's well worth the time to read:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3ybaqj/an_attempt_at_a_fully_comprehensive_look_at_how/

Here's one really great point I hadn't thought of. I've thought a lot about lightning, but I never made the connection between the price to publish and it's utility.

Quote
Problems with The Lightning Network
The LN works relatively well (in theory) when the cost and time to publish a set of transactions to the network are kept low. Unfortunately, when the cost and time to publish a set of transactions on the blockchain become high, the LN's utility is diminished. The trust you get from a transaction on the LN comes only from the trustless nature of having transactions published to the bitcoin network. What this means is that if a transaction cannot be published on the bitcoin network then the LN transaction is not secured at all. As transactions fees rise on the bitcoin blockchain the LN utility is diminished. Lets take an example:
Cost of publishing a transaction to the bitcoin network = $20
LN transaction between Bob and Alice = $20.
Transaction between Bob and Alice has problem therefore we want to publish it to the blockchain.
Amount of funds left after transaction is published to the blockchain = $20 - $20 = $0.

Dash - Digital Cash | dash.org | dashfoundation.io | dashgo.io
toknormal
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December 27, 2015, 03:14:24 AM


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Amount of funds left after transaction is published to the blockchain = $20 - $20 = $0.

I think the practical reality of bitcoin superstructures is starting to sink in with a few people.

It looked the obvious solution but it's fitting a fiat "outer" to a crypto "inner" and that example is probably just the tip of the iceberg of a square peg in a round hole.

For example, if the users are going to trust the trade to 3rd party superstructure anyway, why not just run the whole thing in an SQL database anyway and make it a lot cheaper ? And conversely, from the payment channel's perspective, if you're going to make it work for a blockchain, why not make it work for the clearing banks as well ? (Oops - somebody already did that  Wink )

P.S. Pretty interesting film about how coins were made.
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December 27, 2015, 05:08:13 AM

I was browsing reddit when I stumbled across a really nice post about all of the issues with scaling Bitcoin. It's well worth the time to read:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3ybaqj/an_attempt_at_a_fully_comprehensive_look_at_how/

Here's one really great point I hadn't thought of. I've thought a lot about lightning, but I never made the connection between the price to publish and it's utility.

Quote
Problems with The Lightning Network
The LN works relatively well (in theory) when the cost and time to publish a set of transactions to the network are kept low. Unfortunately, when the cost and time to publish a set of transactions on the blockchain become high, the LN's utility is diminished. The trust you get from a transaction on the LN comes only from the trustless nature of having transactions published to the bitcoin network. What this means is that if a transaction cannot be published on the bitcoin network then the LN transaction is not secured at all. As transactions fees rise on the bitcoin blockchain the LN utility is diminished. Lets take an example:
Cost of publishing a transaction to the bitcoin network = $20
LN transaction between Bob and Alice = $20.
Transaction between Bob and Alice has problem therefore we want to publish it to the blockchain.
Amount of funds left after transaction is published to the blockchain = $20 - $20 = $0.

I can't think this deeply, does it look like the price would get so expensive, in any practical sense?

Also, is it just me, or does it seem more centralized.  Somebody posted that the side chain did not require trust and was just as decentralized as Bitcoin's blockchain.  Does each sidechain have a POW/POS system? And it looks to me that they're expecting the businesses to foot the bill for the full nodes but why would they, if they could ride on the backs of others, especially if they're small businesses.  Anyway, it seems there are so many issues that are so difficult to predict, and the solutions are so inflexible. It really hits home how well thought out, or developed your plan has become, Evan.  It kind of grew organically, but the growth was definitely directed with your innate sense of how the puzzle needed to go together.

But i have to say, with the Dash subsidy diminishing, and the cost of transactions remaining free, with businesses paying the fees, I worry that the MN and mining income will drop too much, as the rate of return will drop significantly.  I just hope it works out well, so that the subsidy loss will in fact be made up with the fees and usage.

And tok, that's a cute video, wow, 1956!  It all looks so small scale and old fashioned.  I doubt they do it that slowly anymore!  The labor would cost way too much! Smiley

Another proud lifetime Dash Foundation member Smiley My TanteStefana account was hacked, Beware trading
"You'll never reach your destination if you stop to throw stones at every dog that barks."
Sir Winston Churchill  BTC: 12pu5nMDPEyUGu3HTbnUB5zY5RG65EQE5d
tungfa
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December 27, 2015, 07:04:53 AM

DT down again ?
i can not wait to have that migrated (pain in the ....)
 Wink

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December 27, 2015, 09:16:34 AM


didn't chime with Satoshi and now it doesn't even chime with the European Central Bank   Wink

Nobody cares about your irrelevant central planning anecdotes......This thread is about Scamology. Please stay on topic.

A bitcoin sidechain that cleared in 2 seconds is more akin to metal cash than your premined ponzi since there is a direct analogue. Physical cash is pegged to the value of its credit equivalent and they are mutually interchangeable just as the sidechain coin would be with bitcoin.

Please desist from attempting to pass of your dashtard warped logic and "bamboo" Evolusham vaporware as a ponzy rebrand of fishy guvmetal.



#R3KT

DASH  Embarrassed


Why is toknormal troll posting? Am I missing something?
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December 27, 2015, 09:45:13 AM

Why is toknormal troll posting? Am I missing something?

Trolls on Christmas break. Better ad-lib for them for a while.

withdrawal syndrome, I guess  Cheesy


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toknormal
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December 27, 2015, 10:04:20 AM


Why is toknormal troll posting? Am I missing something?

Trolls on Christmas break. Better ad-lib for them for a while.

Christmas theatre.

I made a post about emerging institutional definitions of cash with favourable implications for blockchains with fast clearing times.

I also thought of an obvious rebuttal to that view along the lines of "the world's leading crypto has X - it doesn't need Dash to meet electronic cash requirements" based on sidechains and their analogous interchgangeability to bitcoin that cash has to credit money. I further imagined a very adversarial way in which that point could be made.

But then when I thought it through further I realised that, although it was analogous to the legacy cash/credit fiat model it did not satisfy the emerging ideals for electronic cash which should run on the main chain to meet the ECB's definition of "account to account".

I waited for someone to post the contrary adversarial view but nobody did. After a while I got sick of waiting so decided to post it myself in theatrical mode - along with the subsequent rebutal.

I thought I was pretty authentic Wink
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