Eligius: 0% Fee BTC, 105% PPS NMC, No registration, CPPSRB

[organofcorti]

Makes some sense.  When I get stats v2 up going I'll be sure to include share counts for orphaned blocks on the API side for this purpose.

Great! Post here when you do? In the meantime I'm using an estimate based on the ratio of block durations.

On the front end side, though, I definitely think the current method is more towards what someone wants to see as a "luck" stat.

For most miners, that's true. However on the odd occasion we have "Vladimir vs BTC Guild" style kerfuffles, you can show someone immediately how likely luck is over any given number of blocks. In fact having the current 'luck' side-by-side with the CDF might not be a bad idea?

[1715453295]

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[1715453295]

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[kano]

Makes some sense.  When I get stats v2 up going I'll be sure to include share counts for orphaned blocks on the API side for this purpose.

Great! Post here when you do? In the meantime I'm using an estimate based on the ratio of block durations.

On the front end side, though, I definitely think the current method is more towards what someone wants to see as a "luck" stat.

For most miners, that's true. However on the odd occasion we have "Vladimir vs BTC Guild" style kerfuffles, you can show someone immediately how likely luck is over any given number of blocks. In fact having the current 'luck' side-by-side with the CDF might not be a bad idea?

In both cases of Eligius and BTC Guild, the % doesn't relate directly to the payout anyway (me also of course)

In Eligius the backpay PPS thingy means your max pay is 100% PPS no matter how good the luck is.

In BTC Guild the shifts mean that you'd need to look across all shifts in the payout to make any use of the luck % (being inverted from share %) and invert it then avg it then invert it again ... to get a number that is related ... so yeah almost no one does that in their head

Share% seems a lot clearer IMO and way less prone to misunderstanding - and yes as you know I also have CDF also thanks to your help on that

[organofcorti]

In both cases of Eligius and BTC Guild, the % doesn't relate directly to the payout anyway (me also of course)

In Eligius the backpay PPS thingy means your max pay is 100% PPS no matter how good the luck is.

There is a relationship between pool luck the time it takes to receive your pay though, so pool luck still affects miners.

In BTC Guild the shifts mean that you'd need to look across all shifts in the payout to make any use of the luck % (being inverted from share %) and invert it then avg it then invert it again ... to get a number that is related ... so yeah almost no one does that in their head

There is another way to determine luck for BTC Guild that would still allow you to derive a CDF, and that is by the Poisson probability of a certain number of blocks occurring after a certain number of d1 shares in a shift, with the mean being difficulty / (d1 shares per shift).

Share% seems a lot clearer IMO and way less prone to misunderstanding -

I agree, but then I'm biased since that's the way I do it

- and yes as you know I also have CDF also thanks to your help on that

The cdf you have is only for each block though - if you want a cdf for the past 100 blocks or 1000 blocks, let me know and I'll look up the GSL function that will do that for you.

[kano]

In both cases of Eligius and BTC Guild, the % doesn't relate directly to the payout anyway (me also of course)

In Eligius the backpay PPS thingy means your max pay is 100% PPS no matter how good the luck is.

There is a relationship between pool luck the time it takes to receive your pay though, so pool luck still affects miners.

Yep, but just meant that displaying it that way, though is suggested being intuitive, really isn't much use since you need to do the calculations on it, since a single block usually doesn't count for much in any payout scheme, and multiple blocks needs a calculator to do anything with the numbers

...

Share% seems a lot clearer IMO and way less prone to misunderstanding -

I agree, but then I'm biased since that's the way I do it

- and yes as you know I also have CDF also thanks to your help on that

The cdf you have is only for each block though - if you want a cdf for the past 100 blocks or 1000 blocks, let me know and I'll look up the GSL function that will do that for you.

Yep I only display it per block.
If you have the time - please do PM me the details and I'll add the GSL function to show at least the "last 42 range" on the blocks page.

[eleuthria]

In BTC Guild the shifts mean that you'd need to look across all shifts in the payout to make any use of the luck % (being inverted from share %) and invert it then avg it then invert it again ... to get a number that is related ... so yeah almost no one does that in their head

BTC Guild's luck % is actually based on overall shift luck, I don't even track per-block luck (nor do I have any implementation to do so).  The payment per share for every share of a given shift compared to what you would earn under 2% PPS.   There's no extra math involved.

[zefir]

[...] If you have the time - please do PM me the details [...]

Or even better: post the details publicly and enable pool operators and miners to establish a standard for an objective and common luck measure.

[bhanu545]

I am running antminer s4's on eligius and its getting 1.02k as difficulty always, theres no way to set minimum difficulty there, and as we know s4 discards difficulty less than 2048 I sent mesgs in irc chat but its a dead chatroom. Any help on this?

[yakuza699]

Since I now see you online are you willing to implement this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=952340.msg10427553#msg10427553?Also how should I know if there is a certain transaction in your mempool?

[wizkid057]

Since I now see you online are you willing to implement this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=952340.msg10427553#msg10427553?Also how should I know if there is a certain transaction in your mempool?

The undocumented/unsupported pushtxn page that was active for a while at Eligius has been disabled due to some spam transactions getting through automatic filtering.

Once new filtering is in place that more strictly enforces Eligius's transaction spam rules, I will likely re-enable it.

[yakuza699]

The undocumented/unsupported pushtxn page that was active for a while at Eligius has been disabled due to some spam transactions getting through automatic filtering.
Once new filtering is in place that more strictly enforces Eligius's transaction spam rules, I will likely re-enable it.

Mhm.Not offending or anything but how hard is it?Just disable transactions that has output value(in total or each vout differently) of less than x or disable tx that doesn't pay x fee or disable tx's that has lover priority than x.Problem solved?Or the situation is way more complicated than I understood it?
Disable=don't relay=don't mine

[wizkid057]

Definitely more complicated.  For one, even if someone pays an extravagant fee, I'm not going to mine nonsense spam.  For example, someone had previously offered a 1 BTC fee to embed a ~100KB JPEG into the blockchain for nostalgia purposes.  Unfortunately this is just spam, regardless of the fee.  The fee doesn't make it any less useless to bitcoin in general.  The bitcoin blockchain isn't for mass arbitrary data storage.  I personally don't even like the 40 or 80 byte OP_RETURN solution to this problem, either, but at least it will mostly limit people to data hashes instead of arbitrary data directly in the chain and hopefully stop folks from using multisig type places to do the same (even though some people have said they would still abuse multisig for this regardless, which is sad for bitcoin IMO).

If your transactions aren't being relayed normally, then there likely is a reason they shouldn't be in the blockchain anyway.

Pushtxn is not a priority.

[ninza]

I was looking through my block chain and noticed a double spend from eligius, Im not too familiar with what this equates to? Any help would be cool

https://blockchain.info/tx/ac1b8610047ba5b6fd0fe7ce27e35b8dd82662a4a19dbe8da7a271adce3fe813

[yakuza699]

If your transactions aren't being relayed normally, then there likely is a reason they shouldn't be in the blockchain anyway.

The transactions are normal and they are relayed normally(except for the RelayNetwork as the second tx spends and input which is unconfirmed).It's just that one tx pays 0fee and the spending tx pays 0.001 both tx's are less than 500 bytes and both sends about 0.8-0.9BTC.And for some reason no miners picks these transactions even yours.

Pushtxn is not a priority.

What else is in the queue? I am ready to pay to make the process quicker.

[wizkid057]

I was looking through my block chain and noticed a double spend from eligius, Im not too familiar with what this equates to? Any help would be cool

https://blockchain.info/tx/ac1b8610047ba5b6fd0fe7ce27e35b8dd82662a4a19dbe8da7a271adce3fe813

This is not a double spend.  This is a payout that basically got reversed and was treated as if it never happened due to an orphaned block.

Blockchain.info seems to have an issue reporting the coinbase transaction of orphaned blocks incorrectly.  Some users of My Wallet have said the transaction never disappears, either.

I'd suggest contacting Blockchain.info if this is an issue for you.  It isn't an issue with Eligius.

If your transactions aren't being relayed normally, then there likely is a reason they shouldn't be in the blockchain anyway.

The transactions are normal and they are relayed normally(except for the RelayNetwork as the second tx spends and input which is unconfirmed).It's just that one tx pays 0fee and the spending tx pays 0.001 both tx's are less than 500 bytes and both sends about 0.8-0.9BTC.And for some reason no miners picks these transactions even yours.

Pushtxn is not a priority.

What else is in the queue? I am ready to pay to make the process quicker.

Eligius already implements Child-pays-for-parent, so as long as the transaction is relayed to Eligius we should pick it up.

As for paying to speed things up, that's not really the bottleneck here.  Unfortunately the bottleneck is me getting the blocks of coding time to work on these things to set aside and dedicate lately.  In real life, I'm in the process of a move, changing job positions (same company, different work), getting ready for a wedding (!), some IT-related contract work, and trying to get some projects done at my home... all unrelated to Eligius.  I put in as much time as I can, and a lot of that time lately has been going into developing and optimizing things on the backend in an effort to free up more of my Eligius time for additional front end features and things on the request and TODO lists for everything else.  Nearly 100% of donations to Eligius go towards hosting costs.  (Last I checked I may actually be out of pocket a small % on hosting costs soon with the BTC price dipped so low, but I'll consider that part of my donation to Eligius on top of my time.)

In any case, the short version is that as of right now I can not dedicate much more time to Eligius dev than I already am.  It's already more than it was a couple of months ago, and will steadily increase as my plate clears.

The shorter version: Look forward to some good things in the coming months.

[Luke-Jr]

Since I now see you online are you willing to implement this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=952340.msg10427553#msg10427553?

Eligius was the first implementation of this, but (aside from it being disabled temporarily) it's for humans, and automated systems should just use the usual bitcoin protocol to relay transactions.
With CPFP, you can just use a normal spend to add a fee to some tx..

Also how should I know if there is a certain transaction in your mempool?

You can use getblocktemplate to see what is in the current block template, but this is never a guarantee it will remain there.

I am running antminer s4's on eligius and its getting 1.02k as difficulty always, theres no way to set minimum difficulty there, and as we know s4 discards difficulty less than 2048 I sent mesgs in irc chat but its a dead chatroom. Any help on this?

Ask Bitmain for BFGMiner support - then I can provide a fixed firmware.

[ninza]

Ok cool, I was just curios but I had a feeling it my be bc.info related. It hasn't disappeared so I'm getting an incorrect balance which is a little annoying. But thanks for clarifying. Love the pool so far great work man, and good luck

I was looking through my block chain and noticed a double spend from eligius, Im not too familiar with what this equates to? Any help would be cool

https://blockchain.info/tx/ac1b8610047ba5b6fd0fe7ce27e35b8dd82662a4a19dbe8da7a271adce3fe813

This is not a double spend.  This is a payout that basically got reversed and was treated as if it never happened due to an orphaned block.

Blockchain.info seems to have an issue reporting the coinbase transaction of orphaned blocks incorrectly.  Some users of My Wallet have said the transaction never disappears, either.

I'd suggest contacting Blockchain.info if this is an issue for you.  It isn't an issue with Eligius.

If your transactions aren't being relayed normally, then there likely is a reason they shouldn't be in the blockchain anyway.

The transactions are normal and they are relayed normally(except for the RelayNetwork as the second tx spends and input which is unconfirmed).It's just that one tx pays 0fee and the spending tx pays 0.001 both tx's are less than 500 bytes and both sends about 0.8-0.9BTC.And for some reason no miners picks these transactions even yours.

Pushtxn is not a priority.

What else is in the queue? I am ready to pay to make the process quicker.

Eligius already implements Child-pays-for-parent, so as long as the transaction is relayed to Eligius we should pick it up.

As for paying to speed things up, that's not really the bottleneck here.  Unfortunately the bottleneck is me getting the blocks of coding time to work on these things to set aside and dedicate lately.  In real life, I'm in the process of a move, changing job positions (same company, different work), getting ready for a wedding (!), some IT-related contract work, and trying to get some projects done at my home... all unrelated to Eligius.  I put in as much time as I can, and a lot of that time lately has been going into developing and optimizing things on the backend in an effort to free up more of my Eligius time for additional front end features and things on the request and TODO lists for everything else.  Nearly 100% of donations to Eligius go towards hosting costs.  (Last I checked I may actually be out of pocket a small % on hosting costs soon with the BTC price dipped so low, but I'll consider that part of my donation to Eligius on top of my time.)

In any case, the short version is that as of right now I can not dedicate much more time to Eligius dev than I already am.  It's already more than it was a couple of months ago, and will steadily increase as my plate clears.

The shorter version: Look forward to some good things in the coming months.

[yakuza699]

Eligius was the first implementation of this, but (aside from it being disabled temporarily) it's for humans, and automated systems should just use the usual bitcoin protocol to relay transactions.
With CPFP, you can just use a normal spend to add a fee to some tx..

I am not sure did I discussed it with you or with wizkid but what about f2pool referral system if they do something bad on their ref their key gets revoked.Also I made 3 tx's
https://blockchain.info/tx-index/77712737 This tx should confirm on it's own though it paid 0 fee but the coins are old enough. Confirmed
https://blockchain.info/tx-index/77714274 This tx doesn't have any coins age and pays 0 fee so no miner really wants to include it in their block. Confirmed
https://blockchain.info/tx-index/77712774 This tx pays 0.001 fee that is more than enough for this tx and the previous. Lets see if CPFP occurs on Eligius. Confirmed
Was it did automatically or you did it manually?Ok the second tx was not that low in priority it was less than 300 Bytes and it wasn't spam(almost 1BTC in single input/output).What if the second tx were 16-18 KB having 100 outputs and then I spend one of those outputs(3rd tx) and set that all input as a fee and have a 0BTC output or lets just say that I send 0.0001(not spam) and have 0.0099 as a fee.Would that have done the same effect?If Eligius doesn't hold any low priority tx's in their mempool than they won't hold the second tx in the mempool thus meaning 3rd tx is invalid?Is that so?How can I come around it?

[wizkid057]

Having transactions in the memory pool is not necessarily the same as having transactions in the block template being mined.

[Luke-Jr]

Eligius was the first implementation of this, but (aside from it being disabled temporarily) it's for humans, and automated systems should just use the usual bitcoin protocol to relay transactions.
With CPFP, you can just use a normal spend to add a fee to some tx..

I am not sure did I discussed it with you or with wizkid but what about f2pool referral system if they do something bad on their ref their key gets revoked.Also I made 3 tx's
https://blockchain.info/tx-index/77712737 This tx should confirm on it's own though it paid 0 fee but the coins are old enough. Confirmed
https://blockchain.info/tx-index/77714274 This tx doesn't have any coins age and pays 0 fee so no miner really wants to include it in their block. Confirmed
https://blockchain.info/tx-index/77712774 This tx pays 0.001 fee that is more than enough for this tx and the previous. Lets see if CPFP occurs on Eligius. Confirmed
Was it did automatically or you did it manually?Ok the second tx was not that low in priority it was less than 300 Bytes and it wasn't spam(almost 1BTC in single input/output).What if the second tx were 16-18 KB having 100 outputs and then I spend one of those outputs(3rd tx) and set that all input as a fee and have a 0BTC output or lets just say that I send 0.0001(not spam) and have 0.0099 as a fee.Would that have done the same effect?If Eligius doesn't hold any low priority tx's in their mempool than they won't hold the second tx in the mempool thus meaning 3rd tx is invalid?Is that so?How can I come around it?

When I saw your post, I did manually check Eligius's GBT result (anyone can do this using the GBT port ont he site..) and saw they were in fact included in the first few transactions - so unless wizkid057 was really fast, it was automatic.
Eligius won't mine spam no matter how much the fee, so CPFP won't help if it detects a parent is spam; there is no way to get around this.

[wizkid057]

so unless wizkid057 was really fast, it was automatic

Nope, wasn't me.