[CLOSED] BTC Guild - Pays TxFees+NMC, Stratum, VarDiff, Private Servers

[martychubbs]

You fooling me? APCpool.co & MT. Red display round shares.  Are you claiming they fake stats?   

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[1714197178]

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[Eveofwar]

You fooling me? APCpool.co & MT. Red display round shares.  Are you claiming they fake stats?   

Where does ABCPool.co show round shares at ?

Are you fooling me ?

[eleuthria]

You fooling me? APCpool.co & MT. Red display round shares.  Are you claiming they fake stats?  

BTC Guild does not keep track of rounds because they serve no purpose for a straight PPS pool.  For a miner on a straight PPS pool, whether this round is 1 share of 1 billion shares has no effect on past, present, or future earnings.  Whether or not another straight-PPS pool has a round shares stat is irrelevant, because the stat has no meaning.

[dmcurser]

hmm might be a noob ? but what happens  with the transaction fee that is earned on blocks that have them?

[martychubbs]

hmm might be a noob ? but what happens  with the transaction fee that is earned on blocks that have them?

D- hmm, maybe your a tard?  "but what happens  with the transaction fee that is earned on blocks that have them?" makes me think so???

E- So, the other Pure PPS are better at servicing their miners, and more transparent with their stats?  Cause you avoided the fact your competition does.  Moreover, you choosing not to display it cause you say we don't need it, but I am saying I do. I'm not calling you self-righteous, condescending, or arrogant.  However, I would like to see it to adjust for difficulty changes.  Thanks

[os2sam]

However, I would like to see it to adjust for difficulty changes.  Thanks

When the difficulty changes the price per share changes.  So when the difficulty decreases the pay you get per share increases.  PPS is a flat rate for each difficulty.
Sam

[eleuthria]

hmm might be a noob ? but what happens  with the transaction fee that is earned on blocks that have them?

D- hmm, maybe your a tard?  "but what happens  with the transaction fee that is earned on blocks that have them?" makes me think so???

E- So, the other Pure PPS are better at servicing their miners, and more transparent with their stats?  Cause you avoided the fact your competition does.  Moreover, you choosing not to display it cause you say we don't need it, but I am saying I do. I'm not calling you self-righteous, condescending, or arrogant.  However, I would like to see it to adjust for difficulty changes.  Thanks

Please explain the usefulness of round stats in a pool where there is no concept of rounds.  This isn't an issue of transparency, it is something BTC Guild removed internally after switching from Proportional to PPS.  For a pool that is PPS and -only- PPS, a round has no purpose.  I would love to hear why you need something like round share stats on a pure PPS pool.

What do you want to see adjust for difficulty changes?  The payout rates update instantly after a difficulty change (its completely automated).  The website display reflects new payout rates within 5 seconds (once the next batch of shares are logged to the database).

[eleuthria]

hmm might be a noob ? but what happens  with the transaction fee that is earned on blocks that have them?

Transaction fees are currently kept by the pool.  Their total value tends to be a small fraction of a percent.  Of the ten most recent blocks, the largest txfee included was 0.036 BTC, which totals 0.07% of the total block reward.  One block had no fee, some others had less than 0.001.  The pool currently PAYS txfees on payouts when bitcoind decides a fee is applicable.  At least for the time being, the pool is paying more in txfees than it collects (but that is changing as more users use automatic payouts).

I have been thinking of how to handle txfees the mining reward decreases (or the txfees drastically increase).  My current plan is to run a counter that keeps track of the txfees the pool has earned over the course of a difficulty, and then allocate that total over all shares submitted that difficulty once the difficulty changes.  I haven't put any effort into it yet due to the currently negligible amount of txfees being included in blocks.

[dmcurser]

ok sounds reasonable i was just asking bc i knew when we weren't pure pps you kept them i wasn't sure about after the switch bc i didnt see anything about it on the fees page thats all.

[martychubbs]

hmm might be a noob ? but what happens  with the transaction fee that is earned on blocks that have them?

D- hmm, maybe your a tard?  "but what happens  with the transaction fee that is earned on blocks that have them?" makes me think so???

E- So, the other Pure PPS are better at servicing their miners, and more transparent with their stats?  Cause you avoided the fact your competition does.  Moreover, you choosing not to display it cause you say we don't need it, but I am saying I do. I'm not calling you self-righteous, condescending, or arrogant.  However, I would like to see it to adjust for difficulty changes.  Thanks

Please explain the usefulness of round stats in a pool where there is no concept of rounds.  This isn't an issue of transparency, it is something BTC Guild removed internally after switching from Proportional to PPS.  For a pool that is PPS and -only- PPS, a round has no purpose.  I would love to hear why you need something like round share stats on a pure PPS pool.

What do you want to see adjust for difficulty changes?  The payout rates update instantly after a difficulty change (its completely automated).  The website display reflects new payout rates within 5 seconds (once the next batch of shares are logged to the database).

Why remove it?  I am using it to compare PPS, SMPPS, DGM, and PPLNS for payouts and speed of payouts...  See, your pools is in competition with other pools and payout systems.  Other Pure PPS pools provide the info, and you said it was already implemented, so WHY won't you display it? Listen, in business when your competition provides better service (as seen by the customers, not you) you will loose market share.  See we are supposed to be partners, not you dictating what i need.  Also, the pools doesn't get paid until you find a block and complete a round, SO IT DOES EXIST IN YOUR WORLD, YOU ARE JUST PREVENTING YOUR MINERS (CUSTOMERS) FROM SEEING IT!

Dude, your fee's are higher than everyone except MT.RED (if you do the analysis, the worst performing payout.)  You have been accused of messing with shares to make 4% in the past (not saying if it was true) BUT YOU SHOULD BE THE LAST ONE TO HOLD BACK INFO SINCE YOU HAVE A BAD REP IN THE PAST...  So, what your problem with control?  Would it take down the pool?  Are the fees for my 2ghs that you collect from me to pay for you to sit on this board and give me reasons not to do it?  Does it take days to re-implement?  Dude, you must suck in business...  Very good at playing GOD...

BTW, I talk a lot of $hit so please don't be offended; I am sure you are a great guy...  dmcurser...?

[dmcurser]

Hmmm ??

[DeepBit]

Why remove it?  I am using it to compare PPS, SMPPS, DGM, and PPLNS for payouts and speed of payouts...  See, your pools is in competition with other pools and payout systems.  Other Pure PPS pools provide the info, and you said it was already implemented, so WHY won't you display it? Listen, in business when your competition provides better service (as seen by the customers, not you) you will loose market share.  See we are supposed to be partners, not you dictating what i need.  Also, the pools doesn't get paid until you find a block and complete a round, SO IT DOES EXIST IN YOUR WORLD, YOU ARE JUST PREVENTING YOUR MINERS (CUSTOMERS) FROM SEEING IT!

PPS payment doesn't depends on blocks. You don't need to wait for round completion. In most or all true PPS pools your balance is credited after each submitted share.

Pool owner may just send those shares to /dev/null if he wants to. PPS means "we are buying your shares and nothing more". No rounds, no invalids, no waiting for confirmations.

Sorry to break into your discussion, but I'm providing PPS service too and I really don't understand why someone would need a shares-in-the-round counter if nothing depends on it.
May be you just want to know when BTCGuild round ends for poolhopping to proportional pools ?

[os2sam]

hmm might be a noob ? but what happens  with the transaction fee that is earned on blocks that have them?

D- hmm, maybe your a tard?  "but what happens  with the transaction fee that is earned on blocks that have them?" makes me think so???

E- So, the other Pure PPS are better at servicing their miners, and more transparent with their stats?  Cause you avoided the fact your competition does.  Moreover, you choosing not to display it cause you say we don't need it, but I am saying I do. I'm not calling you self-righteous, condescending, or arrogant.  However, I would like to see it to adjust for difficulty changes.  Thanks

Please explain the usefulness of round stats in a pool where there is no concept of rounds.  This isn't an issue of transparency, it is something BTC Guild removed internally after switching from Proportional to PPS.  For a pool that is PPS and -only- PPS, a round has no purpose.  I would love to hear why you need something like round share stats on a pure PPS pool.

What do you want to see adjust for difficulty changes?  The payout rates update instantly after a difficulty change (its completely automated).  The website display reflects new payout rates within 5 seconds (once the next batch of shares are logged to the database).

Why remove it?  I am using it to compare PPS, SMPPS, DGM, and PPLNS for payouts and speed of payouts...  See, your pools is in competition with other pools and payout systems.  Other Pure PPS pools provide the info, and you said it was already implemented, so WHY won't you display it? Listen, in business when your competition provides better service (as seen by the customers, not you) you will loose market share.  See we are supposed to be partners, not you dictating what i need.  Also, the pools doesn't get paid until you find a block and complete a round, SO IT DOES EXIST IN YOUR WORLD, YOU ARE JUST PREVENTING YOUR MINERS (CUSTOMERS) FROM SEEING IT!

Dude, your fee's are higher than everyone except MT.RED (if you do the analysis, the worst performing payout.)  You have been accused of messing with shares to make 4% in the past (not saying if it was true) BUT YOU SHOULD BE THE LAST ONE TO HOLD BACK INFO SINCE YOU HAVE A BAD REP IN THE PAST...  So, what your problem with control?  Would it take down the pool?  Are the fees for my 2ghs that you collect from me to pay for you to sit on this board and give me reasons not to do it?  Does it take days to re-implement?  Dude, you must suck in business...  Very good at playing GOD...

BTW, I talk a lot of $hit so please don't be offended; I am sure you are a great guy...  dmcurser...?

Sounds to me like you have no idea how Pay Per Share works?!?!

I would recommend you read Meni Rosenfelds documents on pool reward systems.

The number of blocks found by BTC Guild have no bearing on the price per share for the shares that you contribute.  The price per share is calculated off of the current difficulty.  So if BTC Guild finds more blocks it will have taken more shares to find those blocks and thus more shares are paid to the miners.
Sam

[eleuthria]

Why remove it?  I am using it to compare PPS, SMPPS, DGM, and PPLNS for payouts and speed of payouts...  See, your pools is in competition with other pools and payout systems.  Other Pure PPS pools provide the info, and you said it was already implemented, so WHY won't you display it? Listen, in business when your competition provides better service (as seen by the customers, not you) you will loose market share.  See we are supposed to be partners, not you dictating what i need.  Also, the pools doesn't get paid until you find a block and complete a round, SO IT DOES EXIST IN YOUR WORLD, YOU ARE JUST PREVENTING YOUR MINERS (CUSTOMERS) FROM SEEING IT!

Payouts and speed of payouts for my pool DO NOT HAVE ROUNDS.  Payout = (1 / Difficulty) * 47.5.  You can request that for withdrawal within about 5 seconds of submitting a share (shares are logged in batches so the only delay is the couple of seconds between batches).

My competition having rounds doesn't change that.  Rounds were "removed" it because the switch to PPS was a complete rewrite, the only thing that remained was the layout.  I did not "remove" them, I simply did not put bother to code rounds into a pool that does not function using rounds which are a score/proportional/smpps tool, not a PPS tool.

This is NOT an issue of transparency, its an issue of creating useless garbage that serves no purpose.  I can make up a thousand stats like rounds, but the end result is absolutely nothing related to payouts are affected.  Would you like me to make the knobs go to 11 while I'm at it?

Dude, your fee's are higher than everyone except MT.RED (if you do the analysis, the worst performing payout.).

There is only one pure PPS pool cheaper than us, ABCpool.  They don't have merged mining, which at these exchange rates actually makes up for more than the fee difference.  However, I don't try to market this pool as a low/no fee pool since I switched to PPS.  If you can't understand the purpose of a fee on a pure PPS pool, you're free to leave.

[zerokwel]

tbh I don't care if here shows round stats as its pointless with it being PPS. All that matters is payout rate and submitted shares on a PPS pool that's all you need.

All that's going to show is how much El made or lost on the round and well TBH I don't care about that...

[eleuthria]

All that's going to show is how much El made or lost on the round and well TBH I don't care about that...

That is why even I don't keep track of it.  A huge reason for the switch to PPS was to reduce the mental fatigue of monitoring round lengths and freaking out everytime we had a long round.  I monitor profit/loss (which is just luck in the end) on a much broader scale now.  I have no control or influence on it, so obsessing over that kind of stat is just a waste of energy.

[martychubbs]

Why remove it?  I am using it to compare PPS, SMPPS, DGM, and PPLNS for payouts and speed of payouts...  See, your pools is in competition with other pools and payout systems.  Other Pure PPS pools provide the info, and you said it was already implemented, so WHY won't you display it? Listen, in business when your competition provides better service (as seen by the customers, not you) you will loose market share.  See we are supposed to be partners, not you dictating what i need.  Also, the pools doesn't get paid until you find a block and complete a round, SO IT DOES EXIST IN YOUR WORLD, YOU ARE JUST PREVENTING YOUR MINERS (CUSTOMERS) FROM SEEING IT!

PPS payment doesn't depends on blocks. You don't need to wait for round completion. In most or all true PPS pools your balance is credited after each submitted share.

Pool owner may just send those shares to /dev/null if he wants to. PPS means "we are buying your shares and nothing more". No rounds, no invalids, no waiting for confirmations.

Sorry to break into your discussion, but I'm providing PPS service too and I really don't understand why someone would need a shares-in-the-round counter if nothing depends on it.
May be you just want to know when BTCGuild round ends for poolhopping to proportional pools ?

Maybe, I would like to use BTCG as a backup? Which I stated some posts back.  There is no "benefit" for me to know when the round starts, but for me to use BTCG as a backup pool, I just need the share count to differentiate BTCG from a slow or bad luck pool and thus slower payouts...  Not hard guys, that is why I don't understand WHY it is so hard to enable, yet would be a win win for the all or us...pool picks up hash rate and I (and others like me) can include BTCG in a backup role...  To "know when BTCGuild round ends for poolhopping to proportional pools ?" makes no sense...why would anyone wait on a BTCG round to hop to a prop pool? 

Why keep saying "You don't need it (even though i keep asking for it) so you can't have it (even though I and others with the same needs get it at other pure PPS pool that I am contributing shares to.)

See ABCpool:
Shares 3911
Invalid 7
Reject rate  0.18% (better than BTCG?)
Pool Speed   320   

I would send shares to BTCG depending how I want to compare the pools via the round shares, which do exist when BTCG finds a block...  You even said "Pool owner may just send those shares to /dev/null if he wants to..." 

"Pool owner may just send those shares to /dev/null if he wants to. PPS means "we are buying your shares and nothing more". No rounds, no invalids, no waiting for confirmations." is from the standpoint of a miner in an ideal world...  As I hope I have explained enough about why I, and others who mine through a proxy, need in order to prioritize competitive PPS,SMPPS, and DGM pools

[martychubbs]

hmm might be a noob ? but what happens  with the transaction fee that is earned on blocks that have them?

D- hmm, maybe your a tard?  "but what happens  with the transaction fee that is earned on blocks that have them?" makes me think so???

E- So, the other Pure PPS are better at servicing their miners, and more transparent with their stats?  Cause you avoided the fact your competition does.  Moreover, you choosing not to display it cause you say we don't need it, but I am saying I do. I'm not calling you self-righteous, condescending, or arrogant.  However, I would like to see it to adjust for difficulty changes.  Thanks

Please explain the usefulness of round stats in a pool where there is no concept of rounds.  This isn't an issue of transparency, it is something BTC Guild removed internally after switching from Proportional to PPS.  For a pool that is PPS and -only- PPS, a round has no purpose.  I would love to hear why you need something like round share stats on a pure PPS pool.

What do you want to see adjust for difficulty changes?  The payout rates update instantly after a difficulty change (its completely automated).  The website display reflects new payout rates within 5 seconds (once the next batch of shares are logged to the database).

Why remove it?  I am using it to compare PPS, SMPPS, DGM, and PPLNS for payouts and speed of payouts...  See, your pools is in competition with other pools and payout systems.  Other Pure PPS pools provide the info, and you said it was already implemented, so WHY won't you display it? Listen, in business when your competition provides better service (as seen by the customers, not you) you will loose market share.  See we are supposed to be partners, not you dictating what i need.  Also, the pools doesn't get paid until you find a block and complete a round, SO IT DOES EXIST IN YOUR WORLD, YOU ARE JUST PREVENTING YOUR MINERS (CUSTOMERS) FROM SEEING IT!

Dude, your fee's are higher than everyone except MT.RED (if you do the analysis, the worst performing payout.)  You have been accused of messing with shares to make 4% in the past (not saying if it was true) BUT YOU SHOULD BE THE LAST ONE TO HOLD BACK INFO SINCE YOU HAVE A BAD REP IN THE PAST...  So, what your problem with control?  Would it take down the pool?  Are the fees for my 2ghs that you collect from me to pay for you to sit on this board and give me reasons not to do it?  Does it take days to re-implement?  Dude, you must suck in business...  Very good at playing GOD...

BTW, I talk a lot of $hit so please don't be offended; I am sure you are a great guy...  dmcurser...?

Sounds to me like you have no idea how Pay Per Share works?!?!

I would recommend you read Meni Rosenfelds documents on pool reward systems.

The number of blocks found by BTC Guild have no bearing on the price per share for the shares that you contribute.  The price per share is calculated off of the current difficulty.  So if BTC Guild finds more blocks it will have taken more shares to find those blocks and thus more shares are paid to the miners.
Sam

Sam, you have no clue why i am asking for it...

[martychubbs]

Why remove it?  I am using it to compare PPS, SMPPS, DGM, and PPLNS for payouts and speed of payouts...  See, your pools is in competition with other pools and payout systems.  Other Pure PPS pools provide the info, and you said it was already implemented, so WHY won't you display it? Listen, in business when your competition provides better service (as seen by the customers, not you) you will loose market share.  See we are supposed to be partners, not you dictating what i need.  Also, the pools doesn't get paid until you find a block and complete a round, SO IT DOES EXIST IN YOUR WORLD, YOU ARE JUST PREVENTING YOUR MINERS (CUSTOMERS) FROM SEEING IT!

Payouts and speed of payouts for my pool DO NOT HAVE ROUNDS.  Payout = (1 / Difficulty) * 47.5.  You can request that for withdrawal within about 5 seconds of submitting a share (shares are logged in batches so the only delay is the couple of seconds between batches).

My competition having rounds doesn't change that.  Rounds were "removed" it because the switch to PPS was a complete rewrite, the only thing that remained was the layout.  I did not "remove" them, I simply did not put bother to code rounds into a pool that does not function using rounds which are a score/proportional/smpps tool, not a PPS tool.

This is NOT an issue of transparency, its an issue of creating useless garbage that serves no purpose.  I can make up a thousand stats like rounds, but the end result is absolutely nothing related to payouts are affected.  Would you like me to make the knobs go to 11 while I'm at it?

Dude, your fee's are higher than everyone except MT.RED (if you do the analysis, the worst performing payout.).

There is only one pure PPS pool cheaper than us, ABCpool.  They don't have merged mining, which at these exchange rates actually makes up for more than the fee difference.  However, I don't try to market this pool as a low/no fee pool since I switched to PPS.  If you can't understand the purpose of a fee on a pure PPS pool, you're free to leave.

" If you can't understand the purpose of a fee on a pure PPS pool, you're free to leave."  You are a shitty business man!  "I don't want your hash power, so leave" 

Thanks for saving me from wasted time monitoring round shares...I am not, my "puter" does...but your lazy drone miners will be free from looking at them (thanks control freak)...missing out on the hash power of myself and others like me (and there area bunch, Moron (psychology), disused term for a person with a mental age between 8 and 12, and a common insult for a person considered stupid )   They must be smarter than I by not waiting time with a jerk to provide extra info for fee paying miners...jackarse!

[os2sam]

Sam, you have no clue why i am asking for it...

Very true.  And after reading your explanation, I still have no clue.  But I guess you would expect that from a lazy drone miner.
Sam