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Author Topic: [CLOSED] BTC Guild - Pays TxFees+NMC, Stratum, VarDiff, Private Servers  (Read 829024 times)
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AndrewBUD
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October 08, 2012, 04:20:34 PM
 #1061

I am curious about the use of different difficulties.

Once switched to Stratum my utility numbers in cgminer have dropped quite a bit.
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October 08, 2012, 05:13:44 PM
 #1062

Wow, ~300Gh/s added in 4 days? Where's that come from? Impressive  Cheesy
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October 08, 2012, 05:30:03 PM
 #1063

I am curious about the use of different difficulties.

Once switched to Stratum my utility numbers in cgminer have dropped quite a bit.

THe "U" variable SHOULD drop under Stratum.  The U number is purely:  Work submitted per minute.  Since the difficulty is scaled to approximately one work unit per 4-6 seconds, you should see U floating between 10 and 15 on Stratum.  Even less if you're using the proxy (in the case of the proxy, your U would be equal to 10-15 if you combined all of your hardware).  This is not the case if the proxy is not being run with -rt (real-target), in which case the proxy doesn't give your cgminer the full difficulty, and instead hides the fact that lowdifficulty shares are never being sent to the pool.

I also have a question about Stratum. If the new build of cgminer has native support for Stratum, are we not back to having each miner talking directly to the pool? Not that it is a bad thing per se, I know that the Stratum protocol is more efficient. I am wondering if it would still be beneficial to run the Stratum Proxy and have 10 or more rigs use that one proxy vs. them all connecting directly.

Stratum is [at minimum] twice as efficient from a raw connection standpoint, since it doesn't have one hanging connection (LP) + "one" connection being opened/closed nonstop for work submission/requests.  It's actually more efficient since HTTP KeepAlive is not even close to as efficient as a single raw socket.  Additionally, the new Stratum pool server is coded in C++ over Java, which is showing massive improvements in both CPU and memory utilization.

From a bandwidth/processing power standpoint, it's not even close.  Stratum blows getwork away.

Question. With Stratum mining.. I don't have to use a proxy if using the newest cgminer? 2.8.1 ?


Seems to be working.

Correct, with native client support, you do not need to use the proxy.  In the future, large farms would benefit from using the proxy just to reduce overhead even further.  A single stratum connection per miner is around 0.5 KB/s (4 kbps) of bandwidth.  It's a bit less, but that's a high-end approximation.  If you had a farm of 100 individual mining clients, you'd be 400 kbps (again, probably more like 200 kbps, but using worst-case scenario).  A proxy for those 100 clients would reduce bandwidth back down to 4 kbps for your entire farm.

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October 08, 2012, 06:09:52 PM
 #1064

I am curious about the use of different difficulties.

Once switched to Stratum my utility numbers in cgminer have dropped quite a bit.

THe "U" variable SHOULD drop under Stratum.  The U number is purely:  Work submitted per minute.  Since the difficulty is scaled to approximately one work unit per 4-6 seconds, you should see U floating between 10 and 15 on Stratum.  Even less if you're using the proxy (in the case of the proxy, your U would be equal to 10-15 if you combined all of your hardware).  This is not the case if the proxy is not being run with -rt (real-target), in which case the proxy doesn't give your cgminer the full difficulty, and instead hides the fact that lowdifficulty shares are never being sent to the pool.

I also have a question about Stratum. If the new build of cgminer has native support for Stratum, are we not back to having each miner talking directly to the pool? Not that it is a bad thing per se, I know that the Stratum protocol is more efficient. I am wondering if it would still be beneficial to run the Stratum Proxy and have 10 or more rigs use that one proxy vs. them all connecting directly.

Stratum is [at minimum] twice as efficient from a raw connection standpoint, since it doesn't have one hanging connection (LP) + "one" connection being opened/closed nonstop for work submission/requests.  It's actually more efficient since HTTP KeepAlive is not even close to as efficient as a single raw socket.  Additionally, the new Stratum pool server is coded in C++ over Java, which is showing massive improvements in both CPU and memory utilization.

From a bandwidth/processing power standpoint, it's not even close.  Stratum blows getwork away.

Question. With Stratum mining.. I don't have to use a proxy if using the newest cgminer? 2.8.1 ?


Seems to be working.

Correct, with native client support, you do not need to use the proxy.  In the future, large farms would benefit from using the proxy just to reduce overhead even further.  A single stratum connection per miner is around 0.5 KB/s (4 kbps) of bandwidth.  It's a bit less, but that's a high-end approximation.  If you had a farm of 100 individual mining clients, you'd be 400 kbps (again, probably more like 200 kbps, but using worst-case scenario).  A proxy for those 100 clients would reduce bandwidth back down to 4 kbps for your entire farm.

Thanks! All great info. I just want to make sure I'm ready for the ASIC's and have the "farm to pool" configured for optimal settings.  Cool
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October 08, 2012, 06:25:08 PM
 #1065

Thanks! All great info. I just want to make sure I'm ready for the ASIC's and have the "farm to pool" configured for optimal settings.  Cool

ASICs will probably end up like current BFL chips, where one PC can control many ASICs.  In that case, a single cgminer instance should work great.  If you're using multiple PCs as controllers, or want to use other mining software, then slush's python proxy is probably the best bet.

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October 08, 2012, 10:30:27 PM
 #1066

I am curious about the use of different difficulties.

Once switched to Stratum my utility numbers in cgminer have dropped quite a bit.

THe "U" variable SHOULD drop under Stratum.  The U number is purely:  Work submitted per minute.  Since the difficulty is scaled to approximately one work unit per 4-6 seconds, you should see U floating between 10 and 15 on Stratum.  Even less if you're using the proxy (in the case of the proxy, your U would be equal to 10-15 if you combined all of your hardware).  This is not the case if the proxy is not being run with -rt (real-target), in which case the proxy doesn't give your cgminer the full difficulty, and instead hides the fact that lowdifficulty shares are never being sent to the pool.
Indeed and that is why there is another metric in cgminer now "WU" which is work utility which is the amount of diff1 shares you would have created per minute. This value should not have dropped.

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October 09, 2012, 04:32:04 AM
 #1067

One of the 3 Chicago servers was restarted earlier to add a Stratum pool to the Chicago DC.  The Stratum pool in Chicago will become the default pool, since our Chicago connection is significantly higher quality than the one in Dallas TX.  Chicago has had only 1 minute of downtime in 2012 which may have been outside of my switch in the DC, but I was never able to confirm due to the shortness of the outage.  Tomorrow I will be restarting the other two Chicago servers to add the proper Stratum redirection.  This should only be a minute or two of downtime at most, and will only affect people that have not yet moved to Stratum servers.

Dallas has occasional packet loss issues with the Level 3 handoff.  I will be leaving the Dallas server online, so anybody already connected there doesn't need to worry.  It just won't be the "default" Stratum pool any longer.


UPDATE:  Restart happened early.  Each server was restarted and allowed to recover before the next was taken down, so if you used multiple BTC Guild servers as backups, you should have not experienced any significant downtime.

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October 09, 2012, 06:16:05 AM
 #1068

What is up with this: "Share 66c3c28a (difficulty 3.46254) didn't meet difficulty 4.00000"

Update: Hmm..definitely an issue with your pool. This does not happen on Slush's pool for example.

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October 09, 2012, 06:42:24 AM
 #1069

What is up with this: "Share 66c3c28a (difficulty 3.46254) didn't meet difficulty 4.00000"

Update: Hmm..definitely an issue with your pool. This does not happen on Slush's pool for example.

It's only an issue because you are mining on btcguild because it supports higher difficulty targets, but it is not btcguild's fault. This looks more like a problem with your mining software not respecting the difficulty target request.

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October 09, 2012, 06:52:55 AM
 #1070

hmm, actually it appears that upgrading to a newer version of the stratum mining proxy software has fixed the issue.

So not a mining software limitation.

So, a note to all of you who are using stratum make sure you use 0.9.0 or newer.

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October 09, 2012, 11:26:20 AM
 #1071

hmm, actually it appears that upgrading to a newer version of the stratum mining proxy software has fixed the issue.

So not a mining software limitation.

So, a note to all of you who are using stratum make sure you use 0.9.0 or newer.

Fortunately, the error you posted was actually not a bad thing.  You were not losing any work.  If that came from your miner, the miner was simply alerting you that you found a share, but it didn't match difficulty (this isn't "lost" work or anything like that).  If it was the proxy, it means the proxy was hiding real difficulty from the miner, and was not bothering to submit the lowdiff share to the pool.

You will always find shares under the target.  That's how difficulty adjustments work.  Proper miners will simply not submit shares that don't meet the target, and won't bother to put any notice that it occurred. 

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October 09, 2012, 02:20:38 PM
 #1072

hmm, actually it appears that upgrading to a newer version of the stratum mining proxy software has fixed the issue.

So not a mining software limitation.

So, a note to all of you who are using stratum make sure you use 0.9.0 or newer.

Fortunately, the error you posted was actually not a bad thing.  You were not losing any work.  If that came from your miner, the miner was simply alerting you that you found a share, but it didn't match difficulty (this isn't "lost" work or anything like that).  If it was the proxy, it means the proxy was hiding real difficulty from the miner, and was not bothering to submit the lowdiff share to the pool.

You will always find shares under the target.  That's how difficulty adjustments work.  Proper miners will simply not submit shares that don't meet the target, and won't bother to put any notice that it occurred. 

Well I've never had that issue before so that's why I was surprised to see it. If it happened before the mining software did not report it. I'm using MPBM by the way. Not sure if this is a "proper miner" in your eyes or not.

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October 09, 2012, 05:03:30 PM
 #1073

Is there any chance that amount of BTCs required for payout becomes 0.01 or so? For miners using very minimal setups,
0.1 BTC is few weeks of hashing. It's too long waiting to have sufficient amount of BTCs to start using many services.
You could check user hashing speed and scale down payout amount based on that, for those hashing at > 100 Mhash/s.

Another thing - it would be cool if user is informed somewhere if he is using Stratum or not.

The Payout Button doesn't work?

Your miner doesn't tell you your using stratum?

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
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October 09, 2012, 07:37:52 PM
 #1074

Payout minimum is 0.1 BTC and all I earned is 0.03233661, after almost 9 days of mining. GUIMiner does not show if Stratum is used.

Consider this as noob miner feedback. Bitcoin is massive, it's like detonating 1TB data bomb on unsuspecting person. Knowing about
Stratum is nice, but leaving noob miner thinking if he's using it or not is yet another question unanswered, with 1000+ more on hold.

You are not on Stratum unless you use the proxy, or a native supporting client.  The only clients with native support are poclbm and cgminer at this time.

The payout minimum will not be lowered any time soon.  If it does, there will be a fee attached to requesting such a small payout, because I will not be the one paying the transaction fee in order to send somebody a payout that is worth less than $1.

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October 09, 2012, 08:53:44 PM
 #1075

Payout minimum is 0.1 BTC and all I earned is 0.03233661, after almost 9 days of mining. GUIMiner does not show if Stratum is used.

Consider this as noob miner feedback. Bitcoin is massive, it's like detonating 1TB data bomb on unsuspecting person. Knowing about
Stratum is nice, but leaving noob miner thinking if he's using it or not is yet another question unanswered, with 1000+ more on hold.
The payout minimum will not be lowered any time soon.  If it does, there will be a fee attached to requesting such a small payout, because I will not be the one paying the transaction fee in order to send somebody a payout that is worth less than $1.

I didn't know there was a limit to manual payout too.

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
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October 09, 2012, 09:31:59 PM
 #1076

Payout minimum is 0.1 BTC and all I earned is 0.03233661, after almost 9 days of mining. GUIMiner does not show if Stratum is used.

Consider this as noob miner feedback. Bitcoin is massive, it's like detonating 1TB data bomb on unsuspecting person. Knowing about
Stratum is nice, but leaving noob miner thinking if he's using it or not is yet another question unanswered, with 1000+ more on hold.

You are not on Stratum unless you use the proxy, or a native supporting client.  The only clients with native support are poclbm and cgminer at this time.

The payout minimum will not be lowered any time soon.  If it does, there will be a fee attached to requesting such a small payout, because I will not be the one paying the transaction fee in order to send somebody a payout that is worth less than $1.

The more you, people that can actualy do something to make 1st steps with Bitcoin easier, favour elitism, the less friendly Bitcoin will be.
From your perspective, it might seem almost all is fine as is. From my perspective, amount of things that should be adjusted is massive.
Notice that I represent 99% of population of this planet, people supposed to start using Bitcoin (possibly right now), and that makes me right.  Cool

List somewhere on "MyAccount" that Stratum is or not used. Add fees to small payouts. Trust me, no one like me will complain, but love it!

Thanks in advance!

If you want to know if you are utilizing Stratum protocol, I would recommend that you either use the Stratum Proxy (https://github.com/slush0/stratum-mining-proxy) or get current mining software like cgminer, as it's in there. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=28402.0) GUIminer has not been updated since February. Also, if you were mining for 9 days and only have .03 to show for it, I would recommend that the money you are spending on electricity go towards purchasing bitcoins directly as it's only going to get worse for you with respect to yield. (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Difficulty) Just trying to help you out.
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October 09, 2012, 11:05:27 PM
 #1077

If you want to know if you are utilizing Stratum protocol, I would recommend that you either use the Stratum Proxy (https://github.com/slush0/stratum-mining-proxy) or get current mining software like cgminer, as it's in there. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=28402.0) GUIminer has not been updated since February. Also, if you were mining for 9 days and only have .03 to show for it, I would recommend that the money you are spending on electricity go towards purchasing bitcoins directly as it's only going to get worse for you with respect to yield. (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Difficulty) Just trying to help you out.

I know that I'm using Stratum and I know that buying BTCs would be (sligthly) cheaper for me than mining with GPU.

It's not me who needs help. It's millions of potential Bitcoin users who are not using computers for 25+ years like I am.
It's 5 people I recently introduced to Bitcoin, who gave up the same day, after they've faced both the amount of info
and the way info is presented.

You people are clearly missing the perspective and overestimate knowledge and skills of majority of people out there.

Mining is not aimed at computer illiterate people.  You do not need to mine to begin using Bitcoins, and it is not even encouraged that new people are pushed into mining.  They simply won't understand what mining is or what it does, and why running a program on their computer is generating free money (because those same people won't even begin to look at their rising utility bills).

I don't publish if you're on Stratum or not because there is no way to tell.  You can be on both at the same time.  Eventually everybody will be on Stratum as the support is rolled into more native mining software.  But only extremely invested miners (large farms/ASICs) even need to worry about it.  Those are the kinds of people that already know if they're on Stratum or not.

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October 09, 2012, 11:09:53 PM
 #1078

If you want to know if you are utilizing Stratum protocol, I would recommend that you either use the Stratum Proxy (https://github.com/slush0/stratum-mining-proxy) or get current mining software like cgminer, as it's in there. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=28402.0) GUIminer has not been updated since February. Also, if you were mining for 9 days and only have .03 to show for it, I would recommend that the money you are spending on electricity go towards purchasing bitcoins directly as it's only going to get worse for you with respect to yield. (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Difficulty) Just trying to help you out.

It's not me who needs help. It's millions of potential Bitcoin users who are not using computers for 25+ years like I am.
It's 5 people I recently introduced to Bitcoin, who gave up the same day, after they've faced both the amount of info
and the way info is presented.

You people are clearly missing the perspective and overestimate knowledge and skills of majority of people out there.

You sir are clearly missing the perspective of using bitcoins vs. mining for bitcoins. These "people" your are talking about, maybe they should not be mining, maybe they should be "using" bitcoins. Have them start here: http://www.weusecoins.com
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October 10, 2012, 12:12:29 AM
 #1079

Mining is not aimed at computer illiterate people.

That will have to change - the sooner, the better. Unless every Bitcoin user is solo miner as well, Bitcoin attempts to dodge govs will fail.

No it won't, it will be financially unobtainable for the 99% you speak of unless they are willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars. In a month or so you will be either A) Using bitcoins i.e. Buy/Sell/Trade them or B) a hard core miner who has already made that investment.

Please read up on ASICs and you will understand why CPU/GPU/FPGA mining will soon be obsolete. We are here doing the heavy lifting so they don't have to. No need to get their hands dirty, or hours reading and tinkering. They can just "use the system" with the coins we have pumped into it.
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October 10, 2012, 12:22:14 AM
 #1080

With people like you being the engine of Bitcoin, it's going nowehere. Yet another wonderful idea ruined by bunch of idiots.

Yeah another troll spouting his words of wisdom for the rest of us, you're just making yourself look like the idiot. Go buy a clue asshat.
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